Magicka Warden Ideas(?)

Waffennacht · June 2017

So I just finished leveling my magicka warden to 50 an I'm pretty excited.

I know a lot about the downsides, but quite frankly, imo the upsides out weigh the lack of an execute, the delayed and telegraphed (kinda) abilities.

To me the major upsides are stacking massive magicka and spell damage (animal companion passives and northern storm + innerlight)
Passive healing, hots and spot heals not tied to a weapon
Range spammable and range burst ability, dots

I love the enchanted Forest ultimate as well, much like the resto ultimate without needing a staff

I think the passive Stam Regen for a magicka build is awesome for bgs. Because budding seeds is bugged the fungus ability is a round a bout way for another 100 or so Stam Regen.

Anyway I was thinking for the time being, as I'm going to use things I already own, my set up would look something like:

Transmutation (sub for riposte, another contender is alteration) and shackle breaker and troll king

Use artic hot to trigger Transmutation (not sure if lotus or other Passives trigger it yet, if they do prob no artic heal) and the falcon move, Betty, fungus and swarm back bar

Front bar would be innerlight, bird attack, shalk jump, annulment, and reach (need a destro move) with northern storm ult

Whatcha think?

Any ideas you would like to share?

Benn G x · June 2017

I went with stamina warden myself, but for Magicka Warden I think Necropotence is mandatory it's so easy to keep the netch up constantly, and also there's the bear if you go that route. Having that much magicka eases the sustain nerfs were all adapting to.

What to pair with that I'm not sure, transmutation could work but I wouldn't use the artic heal that heals based off of your max health. I've tried Troll King in a lot of builds, and I find it works alot better on a Stam build I'd personally go with either 2max magicka pcs if that's what you're stacking or skoria (proc from reach/swarm)

The burst from a warden is shalks > Dive > spammable, and keep your DoTs on them if using skoria. Now Dive is a spammable yes, but it has such a long animation if you cast it then light weave a crushing shock they'll hit the same resulting in burst, if you've used your shalks before hand and line them all up its very powerful.

My bars would probably look like this:
Bar1 / CrushingShock / Shalk / Dive / Harness / InnerLight / preferred ulti
Bar2 / Netch / IceFortress / swarm / soothing Spores / flex / preferred ulti

Soothing Spores is the Stam morph, I just couldn't remember the magicka name, also shimmering shield is a good ability, absorbs 3 projectiles, restores some magicka and grants major heroism

BaByDontHurtMe · June 2017

You guys aren't fans of Leeching Vines ? If you are running any type of shield Harness or Healing Ward, you pop it before your shield and every time your shield takes a hit, you get healed. I know a few magicka wardens like it since it lets you keep putting pressure on your target and any hits people do on your shield still heal you.

DeadlyRecluse · June 2017

Benn G x wrote: »

skoria (proc from reach/swarm)

Swarm doesn't proc Skoria, for some reason.

leepalmer95 · June 2017

I was thinking of an offhealer/ off dps type of build.

5x Winterborn
2x skoria/ troll king/ bloodspawn
5x shalks

S&b decisive.
Ice staff/Fire or Resto

Idea is to make full use of the class major heroism + the minor from shalk + decisive + 3 ult a second base gen and maybe bloodspawn to basically keep the healing ult down as much as possible, 6s healing time then either 20 ult gain or 4s more healing.

Then use ice aoe's including wall to proc winterborn as its an aoe proc and isn't too bad.

Of course this isn't a templar so it'll rely more on a lot of heal over times with some burst heals while it waits for healing ult.

Not sure over ice staff for double blocking + ice walls of elements or resto for passives, sustain and rapid regen.

Skoria for dmg, bloodspawn for more tanking + ult gen or troll king because its Op af.

Mojomonkeyman · June 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I was thinking of an offhealer/ off dps type of build.

5x Winterborn
2x skoria/ troll king/ bloodspawn
5x shalks

S&b decisive.
Ice staff/Fire or Resto

Idea is to make full use of the class major heroism + the minor from shalk + decisive + 3 ult a second base gen and maybe bloodspawn to basically keep the healing ult down as much as possible, 6s healing time then either 20 ult gain or 4s more healing.

Then use ice aoe's including wall to proc winterborn as its an aoe proc and isn't too bad.

Of course this isn't a templar so it'll rely more on a lot of heal over times with some burst heals while it waits for healing ult.

Not sure over ice staff for double blocking + ice walls of elements or resto for passives, sustain and rapid regen.

Skoria for dmg, bloodspawn for more tanking + ult gen or troll king because its Op af.

Good build, I think that's the way to play magWarden, haven't ever lost to a wannabe shield stack max mag warden with similar setups. I'm pretty sure you will drop decisive and shalk after a while though, and and go less ult gain focused, since shimmering and passives are plenty enough to have the better heal ult morph (which is not the enchanted one) available whenever you need it.

Just see for yourself.

Waffennacht · June 2017

You're really gonna make me grind vMA for one ring,?

I really want Amberplasm too. I'm feeling necro and Winterborn as an idea.

BTW, yeah my idea flopped, took a 10k spectral arrow to the knee

Torbschka · June 2017

Hey guys,

I've only played magden since morrowind and instantly grinded it up to 50 ins 5 hours in skyreach, I will make an build video on my yt channel after the weekend I gues. Nevertheless, here are my thoughts so far (keep in mind, this is all from an 1vX point of view).

To be honest, I think right now there are 2 different routes u can go for with your "1vX" magden (builds like the 1 from leepalmer might work, but not for soloplay).

1. The "wannabe sorc" route, therefore u defenitely go for necropotence 100%, because magden is the best class to keep it up 100% (nb have to aim at a target to place a shadow, so e.g., if u 1vx and running around a rock/tree, u can keep necro 100% up without seeing a enemy at that moment, whereas a nb u have to place the shade first, this increases the time for ur burst for 1-2 seconds and increases ur vulnerability).

U wanna combine necro (as far as I can tell from my testing) with a ressource set or with wizards riposte + a monster set. For example:

5x necro frontbar (inner light and dampen on frontbar should be clear)
5x wizards backbar (the debuff lasts 15 seconds, sure, u not always instantly debuff the enemys [e.g. if a procblade jumps u, while u already fighting another guy], but usually u swap bars a lot and most of the time enemys will be debuffed). Keep in mind that wizards ripose does proc on dmg shields.
2x Monster set

U cried about pirate skeleton last patch? U have 8% dmg reduction as a warden through a class skill, 15% from wizards riposte and for total shitmode u can even wear pirate skeleton (its still decent, u dont always have your shields up), although I would prefer eninge guardian or infernal guardian for the wizards ripose route.

Keep in mind, u defnitely have to enchant at least 2 glyphes with magreg if u wanna keep the tristatfood + mage / shadow mundus (what I would recommend!, since for this playstyle max magicka means more dmg and more defense, so I rate max magicka > spell dmg, so I was looking for max mag bonuses through mundus/food, since I can enchant regen on jewelry, but not max magicka).

The other best set to combine with necro in my opinion is amberplasm + 1 pc monster set, plz dont go for shacklebreaker. The maths are pretty easy
amberplasm + tristatfood >>>>>>> shacklebreaker + witchmother brew.
Actually this is what I use, the dodge rolling being able because of amber really makes u immune to snares and u can dodge + dodge + mist form (in that time ur stam will be come back) and have great movement for 1vX and setting up a burst combo at choke points.

I can go into more detail, but I will answer questions if u post that, makes it easier for me.

The other route, which I think was the "idea" behind the warden is

2. The "wannabe templar" route, so u go for snb backbar and rely on your passive healing / hots. I have experimented with that, but there are a few problems I'd like to share and maybe we can figure some things out together.

If I compare this route to the 1. one, u have to wear at least 1 defensive set and its either 5x wizards riposte backbar (3x jewelry + snb) or impreg set, but u have to wear this that its always on (5x body, 3x body + 2 jewelry etc.). Furthermore u need ressource management, so u have to wear a ressource set or choose a monster for ressources (but its still not enough) and / or enchant jewelry. e.g. desert rose, amber, seducer etc. U can go for a dmg set, but then ur ressources will be very bad.

So with this route I have the problem, that I have to invest a lot into defense sets, while with the other route my defense is also my offense (max magicka) and I'm also "crit immun" (if u go that route, I will defnitely go for trans or impreg set, since u have to be crit immune to be "really" tanky).

Actually, as u might see, right now I highly recommend the necro route with amber, but I hope we can build something else. Pros for the necro route for me are:

- crit immun
- good defense / offense
- good ressources
- good mobility

U cant build the warden like a templar, since we dont really have access for 5/5/2 setups like the templar has, since dual wield isnt really good for magden (u lose lotus blossum etc.).

Well, sry for the wall of text, I hope we can make this a good thread and theorycraft some nice builds.

Torbschka

Mojomonkeyman · June 2017

Torbschka wrote: »

Hey guys,

I've only played magden since morrowind and instantly grinded it up to 50 ins 5 hours in skyreach, I will make an build video on my yt channel after the weekend I gues. Nevertheless, here are my thoughts so far (keep in mind, this is all from an 1vX point of view).

To be honest, I think right now there are 2 different routes u can go for with your "1vX" magden (builds like the 1 from leepalmer might work, but not for soloplay).

1. The "wannabe sorc" route, therefore u defenitely go for necropotence 100%, because magden is the best class to keep it up 100% (nb have to aim at a target to place a shadow, so e.g., if u 1vx and running around a rock/tree, u can keep necro 100% up without seeing a enemy at that moment, whereas a nb u have to place the shade first, this increases the time for ur burst for 1-2 seconds and increases ur vulnerability).

U wanna combine necro (as far as I can tell from my testing) with a ressource set or with wizards riposte + a monster set. For example:

5x necro frontbar (inner light and dampen on frontbar should be clear)
5x wizards backbar (the debuff lasts 15 seconds, sure, u not always instantly debuff the enemys [e.g. if a procblade jumps u, while u already fighting another guy], but usually u swap bars a lot and most of the time enemys will be debuffed). Keep in mind that wizards ripose does proc on dmg shields.
2x Monster set

U cried about pirate skeleton last patch? U have 8% dmg reduction as a warden through a class skill, 15% from wizards riposte and for total shitmode u can even wear pirate skeleton (its still decent, u dont always have your shields up), although I would prefer eninge guardian or infernal guardian for the wizards ripose route.

Keep in mind, u defnitely have to enchant at least 2 glyphes with magreg if u wanna keep the tristatfood + mage / shadow mundus (what I would recommend!, since for this playstyle max magicka means more dmg and more defense, so I rate max magicka > spell dmg, so I was looking for max mag bonuses through mundus/food, since I can enchant regen on jewelry, but not max magicka).

The other best set to combine with necro in my opinion is amberplasm + 1 pc monster set, plz dont go for shacklebreaker. The maths are pretty easy
amberplasm + tristatfood >>>>>>> shacklebreaker + witchmother brew.
Actually this is what I use, the dodge rolling being able because of amber really makes u immune to snares and u can dodge + dodge + mist form (in that time ur stam will be come back) and have great movement for 1vX and setting up a burst combo at choke points.

I can go into more detail, but I will answer questions if u post that, makes it easier for me.

The other route, which I think was the "idea" behind the warden is

2. The "wannabe templar" route, so u go for snb backbar and rely on your passive healing / hots. I have experimented with that, but there are a few problems I'd like to share and maybe we can figure some things out together.

If I compare this route to the 1. one, u have to wear at least 1 defensive set and its either 5x wizards riposte backbar (3x jewelry + snb) or impreg set, but u have to wear this that its always on (5x body, 3x body + 2 jewelry etc.). Furthermore u need ressource management, so u have to wear a ressource set or choose a monster for ressources (but its still not enough) and / or enchant jewelry. e.g. desert rose, amber, seducer etc. U can go for a dmg set, but then ur ressources will be very bad.

So with this route I have the problem, that I have to invest a lot into defense sets, while with the other route my defense is also my offense (max magicka) and I'm also "crit immun" (if u go that route, I will defnitely go for trans or impreg set, since u have to be crit immune to be "really" tanky).

Actually, as u might see, right now I highly recommend the necro route with amber, but I hope we can build something else. Pros for the necro route for me are:

- crit immun
- good defense / offense
- good ressources
- good mobility

U cant build the warden like a templar, since we dont really have access for 5/5/2 setups like the templar has, since dual wield isnt really good for magden (u lose lotus blossum etc.).

Well, sry for the wall of text, I hope we can make this a good thread and theorycraft some nice builds.

Torbschka

I think your analysis is correct interms of identifying the general ways to go for, I just came to the opposite end result. I think your way (1) warden will never be able to compete with a sorc of similar skill, whereas the way (2) warden can get much more out of unique class toolset and play to its strength (buff/reactive, counter based playstyle/area control).

Interesting.

Waffennacht · June 2017

@torbschka that's one informative post!

I'm unable to play for a few days so it's the perfect time to theory craft.

Amberplasm... Is it something I can grind for solo?

The Necropotence build, a part of me is like, yeah it's great but is it too boring? And is it still effective in no CP?

Riposte, I'm wondering if it'll protect from burst? Impregnable definitely would (what does it drop in BTW?)

Great point about the lotus! Kinda forgot it requires a staff

Resto or no?

Torbschka · June 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Hey guys,

I've only played magden since morrowind and instantly grinded it up to 50 ins 5 hours in skyreach, I will make an build video on my yt channel after the weekend I gues. Nevertheless, here are my thoughts so far (keep in mind, this is all from an 1vX point of view).

To be honest, I think right now there are 2 different routes u can go for with your "1vX" magden (builds like the 1 from leepalmer might work, but not for soloplay).

1. The "wannabe sorc" route, therefore u defenitely go for necropotence 100%, because magden is the best class to keep it up 100% (nb have to aim at a target to place a shadow, so e.g., if u 1vx and running around a rock/tree, u can keep necro 100% up without seeing a enemy at that moment, whereas a nb u have to place the shade first, this increases the time for ur burst for 1-2 seconds and increases ur vulnerability).

U wanna combine necro (as far as I can tell from my testing) with a ressource set or with wizards riposte + a monster set. For example:

5x necro frontbar (inner light and dampen on frontbar should be clear)
5x wizards backbar (the debuff lasts 15 seconds, sure, u not always instantly debuff the enemys [e.g. if a procblade jumps u, while u already fighting another guy], but usually u swap bars a lot and most of the time enemys will be debuffed). Keep in mind that wizards ripose does proc on dmg shields.
2x Monster set

U cried about pirate skeleton last patch? U have 8% dmg reduction as a warden through a class skill, 15% from wizards riposte and for total shitmode u can even wear pirate skeleton (its still decent, u dont always have your shields up), although I would prefer eninge guardian or infernal guardian for the wizards ripose route.

Keep in mind, u defnitely have to enchant at least 2 glyphes with magreg if u wanna keep the tristatfood + mage / shadow mundus (what I would recommend!, since for this playstyle max magicka means more dmg and more defense, so I rate max magicka > spell dmg, so I was looking for max mag bonuses through mundus/food, since I can enchant regen on jewelry, but not max magicka).

The other best set to combine with necro in my opinion is amberplasm + 1 pc monster set, plz dont go for shacklebreaker. The maths are pretty easy
amberplasm + tristatfood >>>>>>> shacklebreaker + witchmother brew.
Actually this is what I use, the dodge rolling being able because of amber really makes u immune to snares and u can dodge + dodge + mist form (in that time ur stam will be come back) and have great movement for 1vX and setting up a burst combo at choke points.

I can go into more detail, but I will answer questions if u post that, makes it easier for me.

The other route, which I think was the "idea" behind the warden is

2. The "wannabe templar" route, so u go for snb backbar and rely on your passive healing / hots. I have experimented with that, but there are a few problems I'd like to share and maybe we can figure some things out together.

If I compare this route to the 1. one, u have to wear at least 1 defensive set and its either 5x wizards riposte backbar (3x jewelry + snb) or impreg set, but u have to wear this that its always on (5x body, 3x body + 2 jewelry etc.). Furthermore u need ressource management, so u have to wear a ressource set or choose a monster for ressources (but its still not enough) and / or enchant jewelry. e.g. desert rose, amber, seducer etc. U can go for a dmg set, but then ur ressources will be very bad.

So with this route I have the problem, that I have to invest a lot into defense sets, while with the other route my defense is also my offense (max magicka) and I'm also "crit immun" (if u go that route, I will defnitely go for trans or impreg set, since u have to be crit immune to be "really" tanky).

Actually, as u might see, right now I highly recommend the necro route with amber, but I hope we can build something else. Pros for the necro route for me are:

- crit immun
- good defense / offense
- good ressources
- good mobility

U cant build the warden like a templar, since we dont really have access for 5/5/2 setups like the templar has, since dual wield isnt really good for magden (u lose lotus blossum etc.).

Well, sry for the wall of text, I hope we can make this a good thread and theorycraft some nice builds.

Torbschka

I think your analysis is correct interms of identifying the general ways to go for, I just came to the opposite end result. I think your way (1) warden will never be able to compete with a sorc of similar skill, whereas the way (2) warden can get much more out of unique class toolset and play to its strength (buff/reactive, counter based playstyle/area control).

Interesting.

I think thats what this thread is for

. Its really interesting, my intention is like:

Yes, sometimes I feel as a "gimped" sorc, but on the other hand it offen feels like a "super magicka NB". Let me clarify it this way, grim focus needs time to get ready, whereas deep fissure (OFC, doesnt hit as hard as grim, but still hard) can be used while los'ing and in preparation. Same for shade and netch. And with 52k+ magicka deep fissure, CR, CS + ulti hits really hard.

I just feel like I have to invest a lot into defense to make the " non shield " route really viaable, but I just might not be very common with it (I guess as we all are somehow). 52k magicka shields plus 1,2k stamreg (rolling and immunity for immobilizing effects)+ mist form is really good defense and mobility for me.

I dont think that I can have all this with the "other" route , high DMG, tanky, sustain?

Bow do u play it exactly? Dont take me wrong, absorb shield, vines , seed + lotus are all good heals and was able to survive a lot, but my DMG was lacking and felt a single 52k dampen would have made me crit immun and also "tanky".

Care to share ur builds/styles ?

A short sie note, I really enjoy playing warden with a lightnig staff. It buffs fissure and ulti Abd your heavy attacks 100% hit, so its huge for sustain. My burst usually is fissure, dive, CS, dive cancel Ingo heavy attack.

Mojomonkeyman · June 2017

Torbschka wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Hey guys,

I've only played magden since morrowind and instantly grinded it up to 50 ins 5 hours in skyreach, I will make an build video on my yt channel after the weekend I gues. Nevertheless, here are my thoughts so far (keep in mind, this is all from an 1vX point of view).

To be honest, I think right now there are 2 different routes u can go for with your "1vX" magden (builds like the 1 from leepalmer might work, but not for soloplay).

1. The "wannabe sorc" route, therefore u defenitely go for necropotence 100%, because magden is the best class to keep it up 100% (nb have to aim at a target to place a shadow, so e.g., if u 1vx and running around a rock/tree, u can keep necro 100% up without seeing a enemy at that moment, whereas a nb u have to place the shade first, this increases the time for ur burst for 1-2 seconds and increases ur vulnerability).

U wanna combine necro (as far as I can tell from my testing) with a ressource set or with wizards riposte + a monster set. For example:

5x necro frontbar (inner light and dampen on frontbar should be clear)
5x wizards backbar (the debuff lasts 15 seconds, sure, u not always instantly debuff the enemys [e.g. if a procblade jumps u, while u already fighting another guy], but usually u swap bars a lot and most of the time enemys will be debuffed). Keep in mind that wizards ripose does proc on dmg shields.
2x Monster set

U cried about pirate skeleton last patch? U have 8% dmg reduction as a warden through a class skill, 15% from wizards riposte and for total shitmode u can even wear pirate skeleton (its still decent, u dont always have your shields up), although I would prefer eninge guardian or infernal guardian for the wizards ripose route.

Keep in mind, u defnitely have to enchant at least 2 glyphes with magreg if u wanna keep the tristatfood + mage / shadow mundus (what I would recommend!, since for this playstyle max magicka means more dmg and more defense, so I rate max magicka > spell dmg, so I was looking for max mag bonuses through mundus/food, since I can enchant regen on jewelry, but not max magicka).

The other best set to combine with necro in my opinion is amberplasm + 1 pc monster set, plz dont go for shacklebreaker. The maths are pretty easy
amberplasm + tristatfood >>>>>>> shacklebreaker + witchmother brew.
Actually this is what I use, the dodge rolling being able because of amber really makes u immune to snares and u can dodge + dodge + mist form (in that time ur stam will be come back) and have great movement for 1vX and setting up a burst combo at choke points.

I can go into more detail, but I will answer questions if u post that, makes it easier for me.

The other route, which I think was the "idea" behind the warden is

2. The "wannabe templar" route, so u go for snb backbar and rely on your passive healing / hots. I have experimented with that, but there are a few problems I'd like to share and maybe we can figure some things out together.

If I compare this route to the 1. one, u have to wear at least 1 defensive set and its either 5x wizards riposte backbar (3x jewelry + snb) or impreg set, but u have to wear this that its always on (5x body, 3x body + 2 jewelry etc.). Furthermore u need ressource management, so u have to wear a ressource set or choose a monster for ressources (but its still not enough) and / or enchant jewelry. e.g. desert rose, amber, seducer etc. U can go for a dmg set, but then ur ressources will be very bad.

So with this route I have the problem, that I have to invest a lot into defense sets, while with the other route my defense is also my offense (max magicka) and I'm also "crit immun" (if u go that route, I will defnitely go for trans or impreg set, since u have to be crit immune to be "really" tanky).

Actually, as u might see, right now I highly recommend the necro route with amber, but I hope we can build something else. Pros for the necro route for me are:

- crit immun
- good defense / offense
- good ressources
- good mobility

U cant build the warden like a templar, since we dont really have access for 5/5/2 setups like the templar has, since dual wield isnt really good for magden (u lose lotus blossum etc.).

Well, sry for the wall of text, I hope we can make this a good thread and theorycraft some nice builds.

Torbschka

I think your analysis is correct interms of identifying the general ways to go for, I just came to the opposite end result. I think your way (1) warden will never be able to compete with a sorc of similar skill, whereas the way (2) warden can get much more out of unique class toolset and play to its strength (buff/reactive, counter based playstyle/area control).

Interesting.

I think thats what this thread is for . Its really interesting, my intention is like:

Yes, sometimes I feel as a "gimped" sorc, but on the other hand it offen feels like a "super magicka NB". Let me clarify it this way, grim focus needs time to get ready, whereas deep fissure (OFC, doesnt hit as hard as grim, but still hard) can be used while los'ing and in preparation. Same for shade and netch. And with 52k+ magicka deep fissure, CR, CS + ulti hits really hard.

I just feel like I have to invest a lot into defense to make the " non shield " route really viaable, but I just might not be very common with it (I guess as we all are somehow). 52k magicka shields plus 1,2k stamreg (rolling and immunity for immobilizing effects)+ mist form is really good defense and mobility for me.

I dont think that I can have all this with the "other" route , high DMG, tanky, sustain?

Bow do u play it exactly? Dont take me wrong, absorb shield, vines , seed + lotus are all good heals and was able to survive a lot, but my DMG was lacking and felt a single 52k dampen would have made me crit immun and also "tanky".

Care to share ur builds/styles ?

A short sie note, I really enjoy playing warden with a lightnig staff. It buffs fissure and ulti Abd your heavy attacks 100% hit, so its huge for sustain. My burst usually is fissure, dive, CS, dive cancel Ingo heavy attack.

I have played BGs only since morrowind prerelease, it sounds (52k max mag) like you have played cp cyro. Pretty sure our analysis is yielding different results due to that. Necro just scales very bad with both offense and defense in no cp on warden, in my experience.

I run slightly different builds every day, since I'm still testing. But baseline is destro/s&b. Theres a lot of setups with somewhat similar results (bursty: skoria, winterborn, riposte/pirate, red mountain, winter/malu, red mountain, torugs/skoria, overwhelming, winter - tanky: skoria or bs, black rose, impreg/monster, riposte+ impreg - sustainy: monster, bloodthorn, alteration - and basically every mix inbetween).

Some skills that are fairly good in cp pvp due to % stacking, just have no place in no cp (frost cloak). Its just not worth the cost. The worst performing combos were always involving sustain sets, I try to avoid them on my warden.

Koolio · June 2017

I went with
5 lich
5 beckoning Steel
2 engine guardian

I follow my group around spamming shimmering shield. Beckoning absorbs projectiles from my teammates and I spam the healing thicket ultimate because of it.

Torbschka · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

@torbschka that's one informative post!

I'm unable to play for a few days so it's the perfect time to theory craft.

Amberplasm... Is it something I can grind for solo?

The Necropotence build, a part of me is like, yeah it's great but is it too boring? And is it still effective in no CP?

Riposte, I'm wondering if it'll protect from burst? Impregnable definitely would (what does it drop in BTW?)

Great point about the lotus! Kinda forgot it requires a staff

Resto or no?

Haha, im in the same boat!

Yes u can, 100%! U just need any1 (can be a twink from a friend) in your group, doesnt matter if hes online or not to reset the dungeon (ruins of mazzatun).

Since both, necro and amber comes in jewelry, u just need 5x body pieces, it doesnt even matter which parts, as long as u let head or shoulder open.

Dungeon is super easy on normal and u can grind the first two bosses and reset.

For the boring part,I cant tell yet honestly. Right bow its super fun, but its a new class . I cant tell its because of its being new or the playstyle in general.

But it doesnt really feel like a "lamé" sorc to me and its actually quite fun and fast paced to play with the roll dodging etc. A templar for example bores me after 2h playing, this build do not.

Riposte debuffs even the crit which proccs the set. E.g. if a nightblades jumps me and incap crits, its immediately reduces that crit. So u dont need a crit and then the enemy is debuffed, it immediately debuffs the crit that is proccing it (cant describe it better, sry).

But yes, for non shields i feel like imp is better (it dropps in every armor/trait as BG reward).

Actually I plan to 99% main the warden, no matter bow good / strong it is, cuz its that mch fun for me. The difference is, deep fissure is a high skillcap shot. It not only requires u to target the enemy, it also requires your timing and ability to read the battle in some way (hope u can understand it) and offers a lot of cool plays at choke points and fighting more people. I just killed 3 people with deep fissure, Detonation and DB in 0,5sec at a choke point.
Whereas a crystal frag can be shooted like a normal cast and it just feels like a normal cadt, if that makes sense ^^

Right now both Setups, necro + Monster + riposte and necro + 1pc Monster + amber are Wirkung really well for me in BG's, although, as said, I heavy attack with my lightning staff like every 20 seconds at least.

Yes, i play with resto , since I just like healing ward.

My bats looking like:

Destro: deep fissure, magelight, dampen, CS, dive - ulti
Resto: armor buff (mainly for 8% DMG Reduktion)/absorb shield or detonation, netch, healing ward, mist form/bird, lotus (to procc the Ressource gain passive).

U can play it with SNB and use also vines, but I feel more comfortable with healing ward.

Torbschka · June 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Hey guys,

I've only played magden since morrowind and instantly grinded it up to 50 ins 5 hours in skyreach, I will make an build video on my yt channel after the weekend I gues. Nevertheless, here are my thoughts so far (keep in mind, this is all from an 1vX point of view).

To be honest, I think right now there are 2 different routes u can go for with your "1vX" magden (builds like the 1 from leepalmer might work, but not for soloplay).

1. The "wannabe sorc" route, therefore u defenitely go for necropotence 100%, because magden is the best class to keep it up 100% (nb have to aim at a target to place a shadow, so e.g., if u 1vx and running around a rock/tree, u can keep necro 100% up without seeing a enemy at that moment, whereas a nb u have to place the shade first, this increases the time for ur burst for 1-2 seconds and increases ur vulnerability).

U wanna combine necro (as far as I can tell from my testing) with a ressource set or with wizards riposte + a monster set. For example:

5x necro frontbar (inner light and dampen on frontbar should be clear)
5x wizards backbar (the debuff lasts 15 seconds, sure, u not always instantly debuff the enemys [e.g. if a procblade jumps u, while u already fighting another guy], but usually u swap bars a lot and most of the time enemys will be debuffed). Keep in mind that wizards ripose does proc on dmg shields.
2x Monster set

U cried about pirate skeleton last patch? U have 8% dmg reduction as a warden through a class skill, 15% from wizards riposte and for total shitmode u can even wear pirate skeleton (its still decent, u dont always have your shields up), although I would prefer eninge guardian or infernal guardian for the wizards ripose route.

Keep in mind, u defnitely have to enchant at least 2 glyphes with magreg if u wanna keep the tristatfood + mage / shadow mundus (what I would recommend!, since for this playstyle max magicka means more dmg and more defense, so I rate max magicka > spell dmg, so I was looking for max mag bonuses through mundus/food, since I can enchant regen on jewelry, but not max magicka).

The other best set to combine with necro in my opinion is amberplasm + 1 pc monster set, plz dont go for shacklebreaker. The maths are pretty easy
amberplasm + tristatfood >>>>>>> shacklebreaker + witchmother brew.
Actually this is what I use, the dodge rolling being able because of amber really makes u immune to snares and u can dodge + dodge + mist form (in that time ur stam will be come back) and have great movement for 1vX and setting up a burst combo at choke points.

I can go into more detail, but I will answer questions if u post that, makes it easier for me.

The other route, which I think was the "idea" behind the warden is

2. The "wannabe templar" route, so u go for snb backbar and rely on your passive healing / hots. I have experimented with that, but there are a few problems I'd like to share and maybe we can figure some things out together.

If I compare this route to the 1. one, u have to wear at least 1 defensive set and its either 5x wizards riposte backbar (3x jewelry + snb) or impreg set, but u have to wear this that its always on (5x body, 3x body + 2 jewelry etc.). Furthermore u need ressource management, so u have to wear a ressource set or choose a monster for ressources (but its still not enough) and / or enchant jewelry. e.g. desert rose, amber, seducer etc. U can go for a dmg set, but then ur ressources will be very bad.

So with this route I have the problem, that I have to invest a lot into defense sets, while with the other route my defense is also my offense (max magicka) and I'm also "crit immun" (if u go that route, I will defnitely go for trans or impreg set, since u have to be crit immune to be "really" tanky).

Actually, as u might see, right now I highly recommend the necro route with amber, but I hope we can build something else. Pros for the necro route for me are:

- crit immun
- good defense / offense
- good ressources
- good mobility

U cant build the warden like a templar, since we dont really have access for 5/5/2 setups like the templar has, since dual wield isnt really good for magden (u lose lotus blossum etc.).

Well, sry for the wall of text, I hope we can make this a good thread and theorycraft some nice builds.

Torbschka

I think your analysis is correct interms of identifying the general ways to go for, I just came to the opposite end result. I think your way (1) warden will never be able to compete with a sorc of similar skill, whereas the way (2) warden can get much more out of unique class toolset and play to its strength (buff/reactive, counter based playstyle/area control).

Interesting.

I think thats what this thread is for . Its really interesting, my intention is like:

Yes, sometimes I feel as a "gimped" sorc, but on the other hand it offen feels like a "super magicka NB". Let me clarify it this way, grim focus needs time to get ready, whereas deep fissure (OFC, doesnt hit as hard as grim, but still hard) can be used while los'ing and in preparation. Same for shade and netch. And with 52k+ magicka deep fissure, CR, CS + ulti hits really hard.

I just feel like I have to invest a lot into defense to make the " non shield " route really viaable, but I just might not be very common with it (I guess as we all are somehow). 52k magicka shields plus 1,2k stamreg (rolling and immunity for immobilizing effects)+ mist form is really good defense and mobility for me.

I dont think that I can have all this with the "other" route , high DMG, tanky, sustain?

Bow do u play it exactly? Dont take me wrong, absorb shield, vines , seed + lotus are all good heals and was able to survive a lot, but my DMG was lacking and felt a single 52k dampen would have made me crit immun and also "tanky".

Care to share ur builds/styles ?

A short sie note, I really enjoy playing warden with a lightnig staff. It buffs fissure and ulti Abd your heavy attacks 100% hit, so its huge for sustain. My burst usually is fissure, dive, CS, dive cancel Ingo heavy attack.

I have played BGs only since morrowind prerelease, it sounds (52k max mag) like you have played cp cyro. Pretty sure our analysis is yielding different results due to that. Necro just scales very bad with both offense and defense in no cp on warden, in my experience.

I run slightly different builds every day, since I'm still testing. But baseline is destro/s&b. Theres a lot of setups with somewhat similar results (bursty: skoria, winterborn, riposte/pirate, red mountain, winter/malu, red mountain, torugs/skoria, overwhelming, winter - tanky: skoria or bs, black rose, impreg/monster, riposte+ impreg - sustainy: monster, bloodthorn, alteration - and basically every mix inbetween).

Some skills that are fairly good in cp pvp due to % stacking, just have no place in no cp (frost cloak). Its just not worth the cost. The worst performing combos were always involving sustain sets, I try to avoid them on my warden.

Actually its still decent, have around 45k mag in BGS, isnt too bad and dampen plus HW is still strong defense.

But bow exactly do u combine those sets? For ecample,
2skoria - 5pc impreg (have to be active all time) - 4 remaining slots if u use a desto.

I tried 2 pc pirate/blood spawn,5pc Wizards SNB backbar, 5pc KAG, 1vma lightning staff and it fehlt lackluster to me compared to the necro.

Way less DMG, way less resources. I felt tanky, but I also do with my shields?

So bow exactly looks ur playstyle and ur setup?

Furthermore, care to eexplain why the 8% DMG reduction is bad in no CP? (I guess u meam the General DMG is lower, so 8% reduction from an already low attack isnt worth it, right?)

Thanks for sharing your results! Its really interesting, the 8% more max mag and easy access to necropotence combined with all the buffa hooked me, whereas u feel more common with the "Hots/healing" side

!

Mojomonkeyman · June 2017

My most used setup is shieldless light skoria, winter + riposte. I'll focus on that. Riposte on s&b only, frost sharpened.

Def rota weighted depending on situation: living trellis + shimmering, and freecast cleanse betty inbetween (also returns some hp). Ele drain, crushing, shards (control/anti nb), woe, lotus on destro (oblivion enchant). Fissure & dive on s&b + above mentioned def rota skills. Standard range rota = fissure-dive - wpn swap - la-crushing (hits all same time) - DB as finisher on destro, forest on s&b.

I started with comparing mag vs spell dmg scaling on my skills, found out that max mag loses out badly vs spell dmg, just outperformed by procs and stopped here. Then I compared heavy and light, found out that passive regen is better than active returns (light vs heavy) on warden, so I decided to go light. 1950 base regen mag + netch + green balance passive on heal ult is plenty of regen.

I'm Argo, so I basically have tripot even if using imov or vitality pot and 10% more self-healing due to class. Living trellis crit is around 3k in non cp.

Gameplay wise its following the logic that nothing can touch me on range (shimmering + vines) and everything that comes close to me has to deal with perma immobilize, 90% snare (winterborn, woe + shards) and heavy dottage (woe), which is further empowered by winterborn and skoria procs and makes it easy to max out on fissure impact on slowed/immob targets.

Benn G x · June 2017

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Benn G x wrote: »

skoria (proc from reach/swarm)

Swarm doesn't proc Skoria, for some reason.

Well that's BS lol

Waffennacht wrote: »

@torbschka that's one informative post!

I'm unable to play for a few days so it's the perfect time to theory craft.

Amberplasm... Is it something I can grind for solo?

The Necropotence build, a part of me is like, yeah it's great but is it too boring? And is it still effective in no CP?

Riposte, I'm wondering if it'll protect from burst? Impregnable definitely would (what does it drop in BTW?)

Great point about the lotus! Kinda forgot it requires a staff

Resto or no?

Necropotence is definitely worth it, I use it on my sorc in BGs and do fine, I'm not using inner light either so with a warden using inner light and the ult for the 8% gain you'd have a lot higher.

Impreg comes in all weights and arcane/healthy/robust which is good, I think it's best suited for MagDKs though as it allows them to go full sturdy and keep the block cost down.

Resto isn't essential as you have heals anyway (the one grants you minor intellect and endurance to giving some extra recovery) plus you get the major mending if you go with a class heal. It could still be good for the heavy attacks to restore magicka though, and healing Ward is still a pretty reliable skill, I like it because it's delayed, you can cast it and go on the offensive as you know you're getting that heal

I personally don't think many monster sets synergise well with a magicka Warden in pvp tbh. Infernal Guardian could work if you're using shields I guess

Torbschka · June 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

My most used setup is shieldless light skoria, winter + riposte. I'll focus on that. Riposte on s&b only, frost sharpened.

Def rota weighted depending on situation: living trellis + shimmering, and freecast cleanse betty inbetween (also returns some hp). Ele drain, crushing, shards (control/anti nb), woe, lotus on destro (oblivion enchant). Fissure & dive on s&b + above mentioned def rota skills. Standard range rota = fissure-dive - wpn swap - la-crushing (hits all same time) - DB as finisher on destro, forest on s&b.

I started with comparing mag vs spell dmg scaling on my skills, found out that max mag loses out badly vs spell dmg, just outperformed by procs and stopped here. Then I compared heavy and light, found out that passive regen is better than active returns (light vs heavy) on warden, so I decided to go light. 1950 base regen mag + netch + green balance passive on heal ult is plenty of regen.

I'm Argo, so I basically have tripot even if using imov or vitality pot and 10% more self-healing due to class. Living trellis crit is around 3k in non cp.

Gameplay wise its following the logic that nothing can touch me on range (shimmering + vines) and everything that comes close to me has to deal with perma immobilize, 90% snare (winterborn, woe + shards) and heavy dottage (woe), which is further empowered by winterborn and skoria procs and makes it easy to max out on fissure impact on slowed/immob targets.

thats great information, thank you! In theory, the shimmering + vines iidea seems very good, im just afraid about the term "projectile", for example against a sorc, doenst it "just" absorb frags (curse, crushing shoke, fury all are not absorbed by shimmering, or?)?

Is vines + shimmering + to an extend lotus (since u are not able to always light attack, especially with snb and being damaged) enough to keep ur alive? I guess u rely a lot of the ulti gain and the green balance ulti if highly focused, right?

How exactly du u reach those 1950 base reg? Since winterborn and wizards both have only 1 line of magreg, so I guess u also use atronach and/or reg ecnhants and/or witchmothers brew?

What ur other stats look like? Spelldmg and max stam? With tristatfood and necro, amber plus 2 enchants regen im sitting on

2,2k buffed spelldmg
14k stamina (cp)

Ur main dmg comes from fissure/dots and the moment when both, skoria and winterborn, are proccing together (I guess both proccs are super strong, especially in no cp).

That sounds really like a fun and well thought out setup, I try to test that by myself, thank you for sharing it! Sounds really great in theory!

Mojomonkeyman · June 2017

Thief + Witchmother + 3x regen, close to 11k stam with tristat on large pieces (no cp), 2k buffed spell dmg. Never dodge + block on s&b for max 50% of stam pool to have breakfree available with next tick. I guess I rely a lot on experience to make it work.

I had to learn to expose myself to dmg and trust in vines and shimmering. It really is enough, since almost all situations where shimmering and vines are not sufficient are covered by a very underrated def skill - the freecast betty cleanse (curse, beam, sa, dk dots, poison inject dot). I only use lotus for crits and group heal, its the least important def partr in the puzzle and the first skill I swap out when I test other things.

Waffennacht · June 2017

My connection is poor and I just now can write something!

Loving the ideas and info.

So for BGs I'm thinking I wanna try, Necro + Winterborn, I can either do x5 x5 x1 monster magicka, I am unsure if there is a way to do Winterborn x5 necro x5 X2 monster (would have to be necro weapons right?) And still be successful.

Shimmer + vines sounds pretty cool, are you guys dropping swarm?

Is frost staff not too much of a loss in damage? - I am feeling Healing Ward, Shimmer, Vines and Annulment, prob not all on the same bar? I also like the fungus move, but that seems like way too much?

I love reach on a frost staff, but having that talons like ability, it seems kinda redundant, but the frost dot seems appealing... And I just like it more than force.

I just worry about regen and Stam with a set up like necro + winter.

Now that I know, thanks @Torbschka, I'll be grinding for Amberplasm, at which point, does Winterborn provide enough for BGs? The proc itself is great, just Winterborn+Amber sounds like 30kish only max magicka in no CP?

Destro move, frost la, talons type ability, are those 3 reliable enough for Winterborn? Is there another frost move I'm forgetting (outside of ult)?

I know I still need undaunted and mage guild passives, but even then in BGs I feel like max Magicka is low, are tri Glyphs not a good idea (I think my armor has X2?)

I did not like troll king honestly