The New New Meta

Ebonheart1111 · June 2017

I've been stewing for a few days after getting into a zone wide argument about the new meta. Some people say it's fair, as the devs wouldn't allow such things if it weren't intended. I don't agree. The meta is always just an exploitation of an oversight of the dev's shotgun fixes and tinkerings. The main question was if following meta-builds makes you a lackluster player which I feel it does, but some believe the only way to rank is to ride the meta up.

UppGRAYxDD · June 2017

Well its like this....the Indians used bow and arrows. The white man came with Guns. Guns>>>>Bow and arrows so the white man won. Its not fair. Its not right. But its here.

ParaNostram · June 2017

Class mastery > meta riding.

Granted, in battlegrounds it's hard to perform if you aren't using proc sets galore which is frustrating to say the least. If in a game about choice everyone is making the same choice, it's time to reevaluate the game.

Zardayne · June 2017

Ugh I am beginning to hate the word "meta"..

Phica_Lovic · June 2017

Vague

Asardes · June 2017

I don't really agree. For example nowadays stacking some recovery and cost reduction instead of pure damage or weaving more HA for sustain are two ways to adapt to changes. Both are "meta" for different builds yet none of them is an exploit. An exploit would be for example glitching a boss fight in PvE in such a way that it will stop attacking or dragon leaping an NPC guard or player on a keep wall in PvP to get inside. If things are in game and you are using the the way they are designed to work, in an optimal way, you are meta without being an exploiter.

Narvuntien · June 2017

People have different skills.
Some people are creaters, they go and find the new builds generate new ideas.
Some people are the honers they latch on to the new ideas and make them better and better.
Some people are great mechanically, rotations and with any basic build they can deal great damage but give them a honed build and they'll light up the leader board.

Doesn't make them better or worse players just different players. You just value creativity whille others value well ...success..

For every one of your personal sweet builds there is probably hundreds of ideas that just crashed and burnt (and you possibily wasted a lot of gold on). I know I burn a lot of gold on build ideas that I change my mind on or find a flaw that can't be fixed.Right now I have a couple of great build ideas I can't afford in game... I am trying to grind world bosses for the exact weapon I need but I fear it will take months...

That kind of ineffiency is like an affront to some players, what why would you waste all that time gold and effort? you could be out there doing sweet delicious game content with your time instead. If you just went out and put together a meta build.

Ladislao · June 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

People have different skills.
Some people are creaters, they go and find the new builds generate new ideas.
Some people are the honers they latch on to the new ideas and make them better and better.
Some people are great mechanically, rotations and with any basic build they can deal great damage but give them a honed build and they'll light up the leader board.

And some people are meta followers. They don't understand the game and blindly copy the builds that youtubers provide them. And then they complain about the changes and the meta.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2017

There are two ways to be great in life.

- Think of a revolutionary way to do something.
- Copy whomever did the first.

Both are ok. I've never run a "meta build". In some patches I've been maddeningly underpowered and others I've been so OP it's silly. If you live on the cutting edge you'll have moments of brilliance and moments of complete insanity. Doing this raises and lowers your floor and ceiling. I'd venture a guess that both the best and worst player in the world runs a non-meta build.

If you can't keep up, run the meta. If you can, don't.

acw37162 · June 2017

Is this another veiled I hate proc sets and proc set users are the scum of the earth lower then a dogs belly threads.

Because last I checked all the cool kids are using proc sets.

Mettaricana · June 2017

Zardayne wrote: »

Ugh I am beginning to hate the word "meta"..

How do you think i feel look at my name!!

Asardes · June 2017

I agree it's bad to copy without understanding. Then you will probably unable to adapt as easily when things change. Those who create builds were really quick to adapt this patch and had their new builds thought out and put together within weeks of PTS launch. Because they think and adapt.

Narvuntien · June 2017

Ladislao wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

People have different skills.
Some people are creaters, they go and find the new builds generate new ideas.
Some people are the honers they latch on to the new ideas and make them better and better.
Some people are great mechanically, rotations and with any basic build they can deal great damage but give them a honed build and they'll light up the leader board.

And some people are meta followers. They don't understand the game and blindly copy the builds that youtubers provide them. And then they complain about the changes and the meta.

Everyone complained about the latest changes in meta.... we needed choices not "everyone heavy attacks now". Turned out it wasn't as bad as everyone feared it would be. With some tweaks before release.

They aren't playing the game to understand it, they are playing the game to actually play it. All they want to do is complete content and have fun doing it. It is "semi-casual" they want to do non casual things but they don't want to have to study in thier leasure time. I get that you resent them because you "studied" the game and then they come in with the "hard work" already done for them and... hmm... enjoy themselves.

What other people do doesn't effect you at all. You know the effort you put into learning these things, just because other people don't put in that effort (and complete the same content) doesn't take away from your own achievements. This attitude drives me nuts, (in everything really). Complete your own personal goals and don't care about what other people are doing. Thier achievements are thier own and yours yours, you don't have to bring them down just so you can feel superior to them.

Ihatenightblades · June 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

Class mastery > meta riding.

Granted, in battlegrounds it's hard to perform if you aren't using proc sets galore which is frustrating to say the least. If in a game about choice everyone is making the same choice, it's time to reevaluate the game.

Class mastery + meta ride = GodLike

Get good

smokey13a · June 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

memorise rotations(from videos of the build your copying) + meta ride(aka no real player skill required build usually found on youtube) = GodLike

Get average and develop the belief your a really skilled player even though its more about the build then the player

fixed it for you

zaria · June 2017

Ladislao wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

People have different skills.
Some people are creaters, they go and find the new builds generate new ideas.
Some people are the honers they latch on to the new ideas and make them better and better.
Some people are great mechanically, rotations and with any basic build they can deal great damage but give them a honed build and they'll light up the leader board.

And some people are meta followers. They don't understand the game and blindly copy the builds that youtubers provide them. And then they complain about the changes and the meta.

Theory crafting ESO is to complex for most players,
its to complex for me, I work as an software developer, I have theory crafted Oblivion, Skyrim and Kerbal space program (that is rocket science

)
One obvious issue in many builds is the fantasy gear, Sharpened maelstrom and moondancer is fantasy gear for normal players.
Its as surreal to recommend in an build as an private jet to cut down travel time for someone who complain about long travel time

Note that dungeon sets is not fantasy, add an warning for DLC monster helmets as you don't want to pug dlc vet

kunquatb16_ESO · June 2017

Mettaricana wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Ugh I am beginning to hate the word "meta"..

How do you think i feel look at my name!!

*Looks at your name* Was Taricana nice?

idk · June 2017

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

I've been stewing for a few days after getting into a zone wide argument about the new meta. Some people say it's fair, as the devs wouldn't allow such things if it weren't intended. I don't agree. The meta is always just an exploitation of an oversight of the dev's shotgun fixes and tinkerings. The main question was if following meta-builds makes you a lackluster player which I feel it does, but some believe the only way to rank is to ride the meta up.

It is very inaccurate to state that meta builds are exploitation as meta builds are published in several forums that Zos is well aware of and Zos knows most of those players.

Further, it is completely inaccurate to calla mata build lack luster. Those people find the builds that work very well publish them so those interested in hitting solid dps have ideas to work with.

Hey, I'm all for people playing as they wish. I'm really not concerned nor do I get upset if someone's dps is not leaderboard level. We are all here to have fun and enjoy the game as intended.

So, @Ebonheart1111 if you don't like the meta builds used in top raid groups and such, that's for you to choose. But instead of coming in here and complaining why don't you post your build along with SS of parses to demonstrate how well it does.

Waffennacht · June 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Ugh I am beginning to hate the word "meta"..

How do you think i feel look at my name!!

*Looks at your name* Was Taricana nice?

Took me a sec to get this comment, made me laugh once I figured it out lol.

Nice

Alchemical · June 2017

Theorycrafting is mostly metrics decided upon by the 0.1%, understood by the 1%, and parroted by the 99% so a lot gets lost in translation.

You either become the 1% or you go teach yourself how to adapt. Those are the only ways of git gud.

Vizier · June 2017

Wait...Is the OP seriously bagging on folks for checking out builds on Youtube?

Muahhahhaahaaahahaha LOLs Roflcopter...

Saying people don't "understand" the game? I think they understand that many people spend hours upon hours Theory Crafting and experimenting and then, they..(gasp) put their finding on Youtube. LIKE MILLIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE for THOUSANDS of disciplines, fields of study, common interests, etc etc.

Are you seriously suggesting people shouldn't look outside of their own game play to learn anything of the game? They should just tough it out and...well suck? LOL

Can you imagine any other field or hobby where people didn't share information about what they've learned on the common subject? Don't get on your high horse and disparage people for just wanting to play the game and be competitive. If you wan to blame anyone blame ZoS for creating a situation in which there are limited options for BIS. (although I do think they are trying AND making headway.)

Sorry man but the OP's rant is really beyond the pale.

KingYogi415 · June 2017

Full medium proc builds are trash on console.

Any decent sorc can blow you up in half a second.

The skill cap for this game is huge, having a decent build is just a start. Imagine showing up to a football game wearing a carboard box as a helmet and flip flops, then start berating the the other player for wearing cleats and real helmets. Some people play win, others would rather blame the "meta" for why they lose.

Beardimus · June 2017

Meta ain't even the right term right?

Meta is data about data ain't it?

I agree tho copy cat builds is dull.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2017

Alchemical wrote: »

Theorycrafting is mostly metrics decided upon by the 0.1%, understood by the 1%, and parroted by the 99% so a lot gets lost in translation.

You either become the 1% or you go teach yourself how to adapt. Those are the only ways of git gud.

Pretty much!

One thing that even top theory crafters forget, and many thousands more meta followers don't understand is that the mathematically perfect spreadsheet build might not always be perfect for everyone.

You could give me the world's fastest racecar but if I don't know how to drive it I'll still get to Wawa faster in my Ford Fiesta.

Also, Wawa.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2017

meta
A term, especially in art, used to characterize something that is characteristically self-referential.

"So I just saw this film about these people making a movie, and the movie they were making was about the film industry..."
"Dude, that's so meta. Stop before my brain explodes."

Reminds me of when ppl called other gamers Momo's long ago

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THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

meta
A term, especially in art, used to characterize something that is characteristically self-referential.

"So I just saw this film about these people making a movie, and the movie they were making was about the film industry..."
"Dude, that's so meta. Stop before my brain explodes."

Reminds me of when ppl called other gamers Momo's long ago

And scrolling further down Urban Dictionary reveals ...

Meta
Abbreviation of Most Effective Tactic Available. Mostly used when comparing tactics in a game, but can be used in other things as well. It can change over time as new tactics are explored or can change by a change in the rules of a game or availability of new resources. In real life changes to gamerules are usually to make the game more interesting (soccer rules change for offside, usage of time compensation in some courses). In computer games this is done by patching to balance the game or fix bugs.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

This is why I keep zone chat off most of the time .

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

This is why I keep zone chat off most of the time .

Wait ... you don't like having people you've never played with judge your build in chat based upon incomplete knowledge? Crazy talk!

Hallothiel · June 2017

@NewBlacksmurf
For quoting such a fabulous film, have an awesome.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2017

Hallothiel wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf
For quoting such a fabulous film, have an awesome.

He also has a great name so there's that. However, I have often wondered what he did with the Old Black Smurf. We need answers.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf
For quoting such a fabulous film, have an awesome.

He also has a great name so there's that. However, I have often wondered what he did with the Old Black Smurf. We need answers.

Well you have this guy

Or

This guy.... what-is-s-in-life-o-smurf-your-enemies-see-12265072.png

New guy works best ....Xbox live killed Blacksmurf tho