tonemd wrote: »

If Zenimax just came out and said,

"We are reneging on our promise. Your $15 a month sub will no longer cover all downloadable content. Major roll-up additions to gameplay, systems, maps and storylines will now be priced separately. We would love it if you'd stay and enjoy the content but understand if you decide to leave.",

how many of you would still be playing?

If the answer is yes, you're complaining just to complain. If the answer is no, why are you still here?

There's no denying ZoS indeed reneged upon the spirit of the "ESO+" deal that was struck when the business model changed in the beginning of 2015. We were supposed to get all DLC -- that stands for Downloadable Content -- as well as the crafting bag and...the crafting bag.

Bonus slots for furniture in our house is nice.
The dye options I haven't explored sound nice.
Plus 9000 crowns every six months for $80.
There's the XP bonus, too.

What I find shocking about their decision to use semantic jujitsu to "define" Morrowind as a "chapter" or an "expansion" (ignoring the fact that it is, in fact, downloadable content) is that they've broken big promises before and suffered the consequences. There's absolutely no argument to be made in defense of ZOS turning Morrowind into a shameless cash-grab -- that's what makes it shameless.

I thought ZOS had learned how devastating the consequences can be when customers feel betrayed and/or deceived. You see, the reason ESO went buy-to-play (with ESO+) was simple. In the autumn of 2014, when most of us were struggling to find reasons to keep playing, there was no Justice System, no Champion System, and very little "endgame" content. ZOS was bleeding subscriptions because there was nothing to do other than read about the fun stuff that had not yet arrived. That autumn, a ZOS rep told players to "Keep playing! We're tracking your XP and will convert them into Champion Points when the Champion System is implemented." So we kept playing for a few months after that, right up until the Winter holidays arrived, when ZOS reneged on that assurance that our XP was being tracked for a CP conversion. Everyone was to get a flat 30 points when the Champion System dropped. Then they went on vacation and the forums exploded.

Telling players to "keep playing" and ignore all the new autumn titles (Dragon Age 3, Destiny, etc.) because there will be a payout in the long-run, then failing to hold up their end... Let's just say the slow-bleed of subscriptions they duct-taped over with their empty promise turned into a massive hemorrhage overnight. I was no exception -- I was furious that I was foolish enough to "keep playing" (and subscribing), so I quit playing that winter. Miraculously, their business model changed into buy-to-play with ESO+ less than one month later.

So you see, ZOS has *indeed* already seen what happens when they renege upon an agreement with players. This game might have stayed subscription-based (at least a bit longer) if it had not been for the XP-CP debacle. They wouldn't have needed to push their art department to the limit for Crown shop items to make up for all that lost revenue, nor would they have needed to come up with the "subbed but not subbed" model of ESO+. They wouldn't have to "relaunch" every 8 months (the original launch, the "Tamriel Unlimited" launch, console launch, "One Tamriel," and now Morrowind).

But ya -- I'm back. Why? After being gone more than a year, ESO finally delivered on 80% of what should have been in the game from the beginning. ESO is exponentially more fun than it was three years ago. There's always something to do.

For a business to survive, they have to dangle things in front of our faces to entice us into buying them. I was enticed by the game in March of 2014. I was re-enticed last year by the Imperial City, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and especially Wrothgar. They finally delivered the Champion System and the Justice System. And since returning, we've gotten dueling, player housing, and now battlegrounds.

Speaking as someone who HAS proven they're willing to quit when ZOS reneges upon an agreement, paying for Morrowind was a strain on my principles, but not my wallet. I had to ask myself if I was enjoying everything ZOS had done and whether or not I was predisposed to believe I would enjoy Morrowind just as much.

So yes -- I do the 6-month ESO+ and I bought the "chapter/expansion/whatever" because, despite the short-sighted and morally questionable business decisions, the artists and designers at ZOS -- the creators, not the string-pullers making bad business decisions -- have done amazing work. Unfortunately, if I want to financially support those creators, I have to financially support the soulless cash-*** as well. I can't simply send $100 to the world-builders, directly.

Is paying for ESO+ worth it? Depends on whether or not you like this game and want it to continue. That's what it boils down to in the end. Are you having fun?

We think we're sticking it to "the man" by denying them $15 a month, but really, the people who made the decision to define Morrowind as an "expansion" will be the last people at ZOS who get fired before the servers are shutdown forever. First, the DLC will stop. Then, the Crown Store will stagnate. Players will lose interest. They won't renew their ESO+ or buy Crowns.

Then, game over.

So my answer is yes -- paying for ESO+ is worth it. Not for the "stuff" I get back. It's worth it because the people who created Morrowind and all the amazing content ESO has to offer still have jobs. That's worth it for me. Sure, I despise this business decision as the cash-grab that it is, but I have to keep perspective about with whom, exactly, I'm angry.

Iccotak wrote: »

Morrowind Chapter was a soft re-boot to reignite interest in the game. Plain and Simple.
And ZOS is better of for it. They have gained more players and support doing this.

That being said. Update the Base Game Vanilla content graphics.

No issues from me gaining new players. But what about existing players? players that have been seeing the same bugs since day 1 of eso like overload or chains? or bugs since IC or the lack of content in Cyrodiil? or how underwhelmed the Dk gets every update? Every update grinding for new motifs that we will never use? list goes on.

Eso plus is fantastic.

What they announced at e3 was what they created for this expansion then deleted so they could milk players of more money.

Fix the lag in pvp and stop releasing broken content and I'll be happy. Id return the morrowind expansion of i could. Bgs are broken and i got done with the story in less than a day. 40 bucks is insane...

I subscribe AND buy each DLC. It is disappointing to have to pay the full game over again, but I am willing to support the development and longevity of Elder Scrolls Online. So I will continue to buy crowns, pay for subscription, and buy new Expansions. I understand the expansion is a new expense that wasn't expected or intended in the initial phase of One Tamriel and the Buy to Play model. But, if that is what Bethesda needs from ZOS in order to succeed, then they are in a better position to know what revenue they need to continue ESO better than any user complaining about ZOS being greedy and money hungry.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

If Zenimax just came out and said,

"We are reneging on our promise. Your $15 a month sub will no longer cover all downloadable content. Major roll-up additions to gameplay, systems, maps and storylines will now be priced separately. We would love it if you'd stay and enjoy the content but understand if you decide to leave.",

how many of you would still be playing?

If the answer is yes, you're complaining just to complain. If the answer is no, why are you still here?

There's no denying ZoS indeed reneged upon the spirit of the "ESO+" deal that was struck when the business model changed in the beginning of 2015. We were supposed to get all DLC -- that stands for Downloadable Content -- as well as the crafting bag and...the crafting bag.

Bonus slots for furniture in our house is nice.
The dye options I haven't explored sound nice.
Plus 9000 crowns every six months for $80.
There's the XP bonus, too.

What I find shocking about their decision to use semantic jujitsu to "define" Morrowind as a "chapter" or an "expansion" (ignoring the fact that it is, in fact, downloadable content) is that they've broken big promises before and suffered the consequences. There's absolutely no argument to be made in defense of ZOS turning Morrowind into a shameless cash-grab -- that's what makes it shameless.

I thought ZOS had learned how devastating the consequences can be when customers feel betrayed and/or deceived. You see, the reason ESO went buy-to-play (with ESO+) was simple. In the autumn of 2014, when most of us were struggling to find reasons to keep playing, there was no Justice System, no Champion System, and very little "endgame" content. ZOS was bleeding subscriptions because there was nothing to do other than read about the fun stuff that had not yet arrived. That autumn, a ZOS rep told players to "Keep playing! We're tracking your XP and will convert them into Champion Points when the Champion System is implemented." So we kept playing for a few months after that, right up until the Winter holidays arrived, when ZOS reneged on that assurance that our XP was being tracked for a CP conversion. Everyone was to get a flat 30 points when the Champion System dropped. Then they went on vacation and the forums exploded.

Telling players to "keep playing" and ignore all the new autumn titles (Dragon Age 3, Destiny, etc.) because there will be a payout in the long-run, then failing to hold up their end... Let's just say the slow-bleed of subscriptions they duct-taped over with their empty promise turned into a massive hemorrhage overnight. I was no exception -- I was furious that I was foolish enough to "keep playing" (and subscribing), so I quit playing that winter. Miraculously, their business model changed into buy-to-play with ESO+ less than one month later.

So you see, ZOS has *indeed* already seen what happens when they renege upon an agreement with players. This game might have stayed subscription-based (at least a bit longer) if it had not been for the XP-CP debacle. They wouldn't have needed to push their art department to the limit for Crown shop items to make up for all that lost revenue, nor would they have needed to come up with the "subbed but not subbed" model of ESO+. They wouldn't have to "relaunch" every 8 months (the original launch, the "Tamriel Unlimited" launch, console launch, "One Tamriel," and now Morrowind).

But ya -- I'm back. Why? After being gone more than a year, ESO finally delivered on 80% of what should have been in the game from the beginning. ESO is exponentially more fun than it was three years ago. There's always something to do.

For a business to survive, they have to dangle things in front of our faces to entice us into buying them. I was enticed by the game in March of 2014. I was re-enticed last year by the Imperial City, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and especially Wrothgar. They finally delivered the Champion System and the Justice System. And since returning, we've gotten dueling, player housing, and now battlegrounds.

Speaking as someone who HAS proven they're willing to quit when ZOS reneges upon an agreement, paying for Morrowind was a strain on my principles, but not my wallet. I had to ask myself if I was enjoying everything ZOS had done and whether or not I was predisposed to believe I would enjoy Morrowind just as much.

So yes -- I do the 6-month ESO+ and I bought the "chapter/expansion/whatever" because, despite the short-sighted and morally questionable business decisions, the artists and designers at ZOS -- the creators, not the string-pullers making bad business decisions -- have done amazing work. Unfortunately, if I want to financially support those creators, I have to financially support the soulless cash-*** as well. I can't simply send $100 to the world-builders, directly.

Is paying for ESO+ worth it? Depends on whether or not you like this game and want it to continue. That's what it boils down to in the end. Are you having fun?

We think we're sticking it to "the man" by denying them $15 a month, but really, the people who made the decision to define Morrowind as an "expansion" will be the last people at ZOS who get fired before the servers are shutdown forever. First, the DLC will stop. Then, the Crown Store will stagnate. Players will lose interest. They won't renew their ESO+ or buy Crowns.

Then, game over.

So my answer is yes -- paying for ESO+ is worth it. Not for the "stuff" I get back. It's worth it because the people who created Morrowind and all the amazing content ESO has to offer still have jobs. That's worth it for me. Sure, I despise this business decision as the cash-grab that it is, but I have to keep perspective about with whom, exactly, I'm angry.

Dang, @Unlikely_Ghostbuster! You have hit the nail so firmly on the head, it's like no one before you has ever successfully hit a nail on its head.

1) ESO being useless - Really a matter of opinion.
2) Morrowind is a money grab - welcome to free market capitalism.

OP I think you are making 2 assumptions here.

1 - that everyone else would enjoy playing the same way as you and keeps the same items as you. Not everyone would be happy to toon jump just to sort bags.

2 - that people are incapable of weighing up for themselves if the ESO+ sub is worth it for them

Personally I think an unlimited crafting bag is pure gold. I finally got around to adding provisioning to my crafting list at CP250 and was able to level from 6 to 50 just on what I had already collected as I looted barrels etc while I levelled and was sitting in my craft bag.

The_Patriarch wrote: »

After the Bethesda conference, the IGN panel were being very critical on ESO's decision to make chapters paid content independent of ESO +.

Implying IGN's opinions on anything have ever held any value. Bunch of casuals who pose as "journalists."

Not having to do lots of inventory management is worth the money though. It's spending money to buy time and happiness.

We don't actually have a good definition of DLC/expansion, seeing how these terms are new. So ZOS is free to call Morrowind an expansion, and frankly, it doesn't matter either way. I'm waiting for a discount as I don't like paying $40 for new content when keeping an active subscription. (I don't mind paying $40 for a new mount or house though. Maybe the age of free content + expensive cosmetic stuff has arrived.)

Just pretend it's a sub-based game with new free content every 3 months and one large paid dlc a year, and each month you get this artificial currency to buy little cosmetic trinkets. That's the real model. It's quite satisfactory from that perspective. Unless, of course, you just want to jump into the game, cruise through the story in a day or two, and hop back out until the next story opens up. But MMOs that have constant upkeep costs can't really be expected to focus on that audience.

Never really seen a problem with Eso+ I have paid every month since it came out for xbox one. Even months when I don't play I still pay it and when i come back on i have a lot of crowns to spend. Its not really a big deal its only like 20$ a month and being serious that's not really much of anything except like 4 gallons of milk. lol

I enjoy the sub perks. To each his own I guess. Enjoy.....