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2H Axe Bleed Procs Suppress Bleed Damage if reapplied to an already bleeding target.
Avran_Sylt
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Since the Initial tick (the 0 time) of the bleed doesn't do damage, anytime the bleed is refreshed while it's already active on the enemy will cause the next tick to deal no damage (since it's back at the 0 tick). This will cause the Axe passive to deal less damage, and considerably less damage the more you proc the bleed.
Edit: Rather, it resets it back to the initial timer, not that it causes the next tick to deal no damage. But having a 2 second window in which to reapply the bleed tick causing that tick to never hit is a problem.
PC NA Server and PTS
Courtesy of @Dorrino for bringing this to light, and testing it further:
Edited by Avran_Sylt on May 19, 2017 1:48AM Edit: Rather, it resets it back to the initial timer, not that it causes the next tick to deal no damage. But having a 2 second window in which to reapply the bleed tick causing that tick to never hit is a problem.
PC NA Server and PTS
Courtesy of @Dorrino for bringing this to light, and testing it further:
Avran_Sylt wrote: »Hmm, went out on the PTS and whacked a target skeleton for a while. It seems that Battleaxes might be bugged, and only proc the bleed around 8% of the time like the regular axes.
From 228 hits with the light attack, the bleed hit 62 times. since the proc itself hits three times before it's over, that means it procced about 21 times. 21/228 ~ 0.09
The test prior to this one only had a sample size of 116 hits, but it ended up procing only about 8% of the time.
@Avran_Sylt
60/378 = 15.87% procs here. 100/378 bleed ticks or 100/3/378 = 8.8% ticks. In other words we lose 1-100/(60*3) ~= 45% of all ticks by light attacking only.
This is exactly what i am talking about:)
Procs overwrite each other.
Measured ticks in Combat Metrics. Counted procs manually (i made an addon that plays a sound when bleed procs, the debuff itself, not the ticks).
Conclusion: even if you just use 1 attack per sec (instead of 3 with anim canceling) you lose ~50% of the proc ticks.
This number can go much higher with more attacks added.
Let me tag @ZOS_RichLambert while we're at it.
This is a minor issue, but this alone makes axes (and especially 2h axes, since they always has 16% proc chance) weaker than they could be. Have no idea how much of the intentional design choice is in it.
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SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Last night I did an entire dungeon without any axe bleed damage showing in my Combat Metrics, is it related to this?NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Last night I did an entire dungeon without any axe bleed damage showing in my Combat Metrics, is it related to this?
Depends, what skills were you using? I'm assuming that you did indeed have the passive.
Edit: @SirDopey (Added in the tag since quotes don't actually notify the user)Edited by Avran_Sylt on June 11, 2017 10:43PM0 -
AdicusDio✭✭✭Switch to a mace for the ax hand if they won't fix it. It'll at least ignore some of the enemy 's defense, and most sharpened maces are cheaper/cheapest. I run a dagger and mace and after a bunch of cp tweaking, I can do some serious damage with them.
Tweak your damage (via careful CP adjustments) with it while practicing on a dummy. If you run different enchants on each weapon (i.e poison on back and +345 damage for x seconds on main) and regularly mix between abilities and light attack, the main hand should be proc'ing like crazy, not including sets.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Switch to a mace for the ax hand if they won't fix it. It'll at least ignore some of the enemy 's defense, and most sharpened maces are cheaper/cheapest. I run a dagger and mace and after a bunch of cp tweaking, I can do some serious damage with them.
Tweak your damage (via careful CP adjustments) with it while practicing on a dummy. If you run different enchants on each weapon (i.e poison on back and +345 damage for x seconds on main) and regularly mix between abilities and light attack, the main hand should be proc'ing like crazy, not including sets.
@AdicusDio
That's how enchantments work though, they have a 100% proc chance but an internal cooldown (not stated) that is 4 seconds long unless it's a "for [x] seconds" enchantment which has an ICD of 10 seconds. So it's best to have the wep dam enchant on backbar, poison/fire enchant front bar, and whatevs on the 2nd hand.
In terms of the mace, yeah, that's actually a good idea when doing norms/vet dungeons, however it's not a good idea when doing trials and overpenetration is an issue. This is where the axe/dagger/sword would be nice. dagger if you've got low base crit, sword for the generic all around damage (or you don't light attack much or use the weapon abilities) and axe if you use the weapon abilities a lot. However, the axe is kinda buggy (though have yet to test on current live version to see if it's working as intended currently or is still bugged as in previous ones)0 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭Another reason not to run my VMA sharpened battleaxe..VMA grind continues.The Flyers0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Qbiken
It's an issue with how they implement Bleed damage in my opinion. since it doesn't tick the first time, overwriting it is possible with every ability. Might actually be a problem with any type of damage that deals damage after [x] seconds such as poison injection, cleave, etc.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I´ve only witnessed this bug with the bleed damage from "Twin blade and blunt" passive. ´Don´t Think it´s applied to other DoT´s such as poison injection.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, turns out I was right and wrong.
Abilities where the bleed/DoT is overwritten on successive ability activation's:
Cleave
Poison Arrow/Poison Injection
Abilities where the bleed/DoT is not overwritten, or has the initial application dealing damage:
Acid Spray (initial damage)
Twin Slashes (is not overwritten)
I'll update this further later on in the day0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Last night I did an entire dungeon without any axe bleed damage showing in my Combat Metrics, is it related to this?
Depends, what skills were you using? I'm assuming that you did indeed have the passive.
Edit: @SirDopey (Added in the tag since quotes don't actually notify the user)
@Avran_Sylt , haha it still didn't notify me.
Yeah, have the passive unlocked. On my 2H Axe bar only offensive skills were Reverse Slice, Cliff Diver and Charge. Was a MA Sharpened Axe. I've switched to duel wield because for whatever reason I just can't see any Axe Bleeding in my combat metrics after any and all fights.NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Necro-ing this thread, because this is a huge issue that has yet to be addressed...
A very easy-to-implement fix would simply be to give a 2 second internal cooldown to the bleed proc. Doesn't require any fancy new code, and it would fix the issue completely.Edited by TheYKcid on October 21, 2017 9:29PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
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