Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

*facepalm*
This again?!

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Jamascus wrote: »

Rygonix wrote: »

Jamascus wrote: »

Along with adding the option to search every guild store at the same time from your banker screen.

I'm pretty sure ZoS would consider adding that option if it were possible. We've seen first hand how ZoS's optimization works, and your suggestion simply wouldn't be stable enough for live server use. In fact I bet that could be partly why every guild store is split up into different vendors. If they had everyone searching from a single huge listing of items, the server would likely completely buckle from the demand.

You're probably right. It's bizarre to me how games that came out 10-15 years ago were able to accomplish this, but these clown can't handle it.

WoW, Swg, Swtor, Lotro, FF14, BDO, Gw2, and many more have a centralized AH and it works, I still don't get why ESO doesn't think it works at all beats me.

Did you actually play any of those games? I played FFXIV before I wisely switched to ESO, and let me just say: no. No that game DID NOT have a good market, at least not on the Malboro server. It was good for me because I was part of the guild that controlled the market, but for everyone else, not so much. FOR THE LAST TIME: HAVING A CENTRALIZED AUCTION HOUSE MAKES IT EASIER FOR ANYONE TO CONTROL THE MARKET.
Take a course in basic economics if you don't believe me.

How about you take one, your defending the most rigged trading system in the entire entity of online gaming?

Lol. How EXACTLY is it rigged? Go on. Explain.

You haven't been reading the entire topic then, go back and read what people have said about it and you'll know why

Lol. So you can't explain can you? Nice try though.

Don't need to explain it if you don't have the time to even read why it was sorry, nice try as well.

ROFL. Still not seeing an explanation. Nice try though. Let me help you out. Look up the term "price-fixing". Go on.

How Price Fixing Happens

Price fixing can happen several ways. Businesses can agree to set their prices high, so that consumers have no choice but to buy at the high price. They can also agree to set mark-ups, sales, surcharges or discounts on goods or services at the same rate.

IE: Guild Traders = Businesses

Thank you! Now read it.

I did, that's why this game is elitist because only a very small portion of the guilds in game can own these public traders at a time.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

For one, you are wrong. You asked so I answered.

Second, you fail to consider the downsides of the tired, stale and abused single point trade systems, not to mention pain in the neck auction houses that permit gold traders to easily screw the market.

Third, ESO is clearly setup to be a social game permitting us to be a member of 5 guilds. Many guilds that have very minimal requirements (merely sell some stuff) have available slots. Really easy to do.

those downsides are exaggerated and not even remotely outweigh the downsides of the current system.
GW2 is clearly set up to be a social game, permitting us to be a member of 5 guilds. it also has centralized trading house.

minimal requirements are still requirements. with centralized trade/auction house there are no obligations. you can sell when you want to, skip when you don't - no donations/raffle tickets on weeks when you are not selling. you won't get kicked out for inactivity just becasue you went on vacation. no more wasting time hopping all over the world even after TTC search, trying to find that one thing you are looking for, I'm not even talking about trying to find a good deal. just trying to find an item, period.

and before the whole tired "you don't understand the system, you are lazy, etc etc" gets brought up. I do fine. not super major sales because trading is something I do on a side, becasue I have stuff to get rid off, but I sell more then enough to hit my minimums. I still hate this system. BECAUSE i understand it and because I have experienced so... much.. better.

That is a matter of opinion, and I respect you have an opinion though clearly do not agree with it because the current system is clearly working well (not liking it does not mean it is not working well and you have not come up with a real explanation to the contrary). BECAUSE a great many that have experienced other games and other systems clearly prefer the current ESO Guild Trader system.

Also a great many guilds have no requirements and that has been pointed out by at least one in this thread who originally did not like the guild trader system, likes it now. A great many do not require donations or raffle tickets purchases and having them is really a moot point if they are not required.

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

vpy wrote: »

What was the rationale behind such a design?

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Doesn't that apply to your argument as well and just make what you're arguing irrelevant?

Still - what ESO has is much more difficult to price gouge and control the market for a single item. We can only go by hypotheticals until ESO has an AH but from my experience I'd rather not have it.

Feel like we're going in circles. Not much to add besides that.

its much easier in ESO to price gouge. because location, location, location not to mention - limited spaces for limited number of sellers. but we are going in circles, becasue no evidence can convince you all, since deep down inside, you KNOW that you benefit from this unfarly skewed system at the cost of the rest of the players.

from my experience with both centralized trade houses and ESO? centralized system, all day every day. unfortunately - the real reason why its going to be here to stay for a while, or possible for as long as the game exists, is NOT because its a better system. but rather because its the only significant gold sink this game has in form of weekly trader fees. not because its better style of economy. but because ZOS haven't figured out another way to drain gold out of economy to stave off inflation. they tried with housing, but it doesn't have enough of a use and the costs are still one time rather then ongoing, so...

What mmo did you play that only had a centralized AH AND had a thriving economy? Serious question.

Linaleah wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Doesn't that apply to your argument as well and just make what you're arguing irrelevant?

Still - what ESO has is much more difficult to price gouge and control the market for a single item. We can only go by hypotheticals until ESO has an AH but from my experience I'd rather not have it.

Feel like we're going in circles. Not much to add besides that.

its much easier in ESO to price gouge. because location, location, location not to mention - limited spaces for limited number of sellers. but we are going in circles, becasue no evidence can convince you all, since deep down inside, you KNOW that you benefit from this unfarly skewed system at the cost of the rest of the players.

from my experience with both centralized trade houses and ESO? centralized system, all day every day. unfortunately - the real reason why its going to be here to stay for a while, or possible for as long as the game exists, is NOT because its a better system. but rather because its the only significant gold sink this game has in form of weekly trader fees. not because its better style of economy. but because ZOS haven't figured out another way to drain gold out of economy to stave off inflation. they tried with housing, but it doesn't have enough of a use and the costs are still one time rather then ongoing, so...

What mmo did you play that only had a centralized AH AND had a thriving economy? Serious question.

every. single. one. WoW actualy has a decent economy, inflation notwithstanding. economy in swtor didn't start going to hell until after patch that decimated population of most servers while creating hyper inflation thanks to an exploit that stayed unpatched for MONTHS. did decently enough in GW2. wasn't trying to do much with a market, but when i needed to buy or sell most things - I could with no issues. Neverwinter even, last I played it was pretty darn workable as a casual.

ESO while workable, is the only game where economy is NOT casual friendly.

Linaleah wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Doesn't that apply to your argument as well and just make what you're arguing irrelevant?

Still - what ESO has is much more difficult to price gouge and control the market for a single item. We can only go by hypotheticals until ESO has an AH but from my experience I'd rather not have it.

Feel like we're going in circles. Not much to add besides that.

its much easier in ESO to price gouge. because location, location, location not to mention - limited spaces for limited number of sellers. but we are going in circles, becasue no evidence can convince you all, since deep down inside, you KNOW that you benefit from this unfarly skewed system at the cost of the rest of the players.

from my experience with both centralized trade houses and ESO? centralized system, all day every day. unfortunately - the real reason why its going to be here to stay for a while, or possible for as long as the game exists, is NOT because its a better system. but rather because its the only significant gold sink this game has in form of weekly trader fees. not because its better style of economy. but because ZOS haven't figured out another way to drain gold out of economy to stave off inflation. they tried with housing, but it doesn't have enough of a use and the costs are still one time rather then ongoing, so...

What mmo did you play that only had a centralized AH AND had a thriving economy? Serious question.

every. single. one. WoW actualy has a decent economy, inflation notwithstanding. economy in swtor didn't start going to hell until after patch that decimated population of most servers while creating hyper inflation thanks to an exploit that stayed unpatched for MONTHS. did decently enough in GW2. wasn't trying to do much with a market, but when i needed to buy or sell most things - I could with no issues. Neverwinter even, last I played it was pretty darn workable as a casual.

ESO while workable, is the only game where economy is NOT casual friendly.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Doesn't that apply to your argument as well and just make what you're arguing irrelevant?

Still - what ESO has is much more difficult to price gouge and control the market for a single item. We can only go by hypotheticals until ESO has an AH but from my experience I'd rather not have it.

Feel like we're going in circles. Not much to add besides that.

its much easier in ESO to price gouge. because location, location, location not to mention - limited spaces for limited number of sellers. but we are going in circles, becasue no evidence can convince you all, since deep down inside, you KNOW that you benefit from this unfarly skewed system at the cost of the rest of the players.

from my experience with both centralized trade houses and ESO? centralized system, all day every day. unfortunately - the real reason why its going to be here to stay for a while, or possible for as long as the game exists, is NOT because its a better system. but rather because its the only significant gold sink this game has in form of weekly trader fees. not because its better style of economy. but because ZOS haven't figured out another way to drain gold out of economy to stave off inflation. they tried with housing, but it doesn't have enough of a use and the costs are still one time rather then ongoing, so...

What mmo did you play that only had a centralized AH AND had a thriving economy? Serious question.

every. single. one. WoW actualy has a decent economy, inflation notwithstanding. economy in swtor didn't start going to hell until after patch that decimated population of most servers while creating hyper inflation thanks to an exploit that stayed unpatched for MONTHS. did decently enough in GW2. wasn't trying to do much with a market, but when i needed to buy or sell most things - I could with no issues. Neverwinter even, last I played it was pretty darn workable as a casual.

ESO while workable, is the only game where economy is NOT casual friendly.

I don't think ESO is casual friendly but I think it has a far better economy than any of those games you listed. WoW is hyper inflation personified.

I still don't agree with that, ESO would be far better off with a centralized server wide AH imo.

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Doesn't that apply to your argument as well and just make what you're arguing irrelevant?

Still - what ESO has is much more difficult to price gouge and control the market for a single item. We can only go by hypotheticals until ESO has an AH but from my experience I'd rather not have it.

Feel like we're going in circles. Not much to add besides that.

its much easier in ESO to price gouge. because location, location, location not to mention - limited spaces for limited number of sellers. but we are going in circles, becasue no evidence can convince you all, since deep down inside, you KNOW that you benefit from this unfarly skewed system at the cost of the rest of the players.

from my experience with both centralized trade houses and ESO? centralized system, all day every day. unfortunately - the real reason why its going to be here to stay for a while, or possible for as long as the game exists, is NOT because its a better system. but rather because its the only significant gold sink this game has in form of weekly trader fees. not because its better style of economy. but because ZOS haven't figured out another way to drain gold out of economy to stave off inflation. they tried with housing, but it doesn't have enough of a use and the costs are still one time rather then ongoing, so...

What mmo did you play that only had a centralized AH AND had a thriving economy? Serious question.

every. single. one. WoW actualy has a decent economy, inflation notwithstanding. economy in swtor didn't start going to hell until after patch that decimated population of most servers while creating hyper inflation thanks to an exploit that stayed unpatched for MONTHS. did decently enough in GW2. wasn't trying to do much with a market, but when i needed to buy or sell most things - I could with no issues. Neverwinter even, last I played it was pretty darn workable as a casual.

ESO while workable, is the only game where economy is NOT casual friendly.

I don't think ESO is casual friendly but I think it has a far better economy than any of those games you listed. WoW is hyper inflation personified.

and i have explained exactly WHY its hyper inflation personified. which has nothing to do with centralized auction house and everything to do with Blizzard introducing easy ways to generate ridiculous amounts of gold without enough gold sinks to suction that gold out.

on a plus side, the fact that everything sells for more - means new player can go farm some copper and peace bloom in a starting area and make enough gold to buy their first AND second AND third mount upgrade AND multispec with a LOT less effort difficulty.

Linaleah wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Doesn't that apply to your argument as well and just make what you're arguing irrelevant?

Still - what ESO has is much more difficult to price gouge and control the market for a single item. We can only go by hypotheticals until ESO has an AH but from my experience I'd rather not have it.

Feel like we're going in circles. Not much to add besides that.

its much easier in ESO to price gouge. because location, location, location not to mention - limited spaces for limited number of sellers. but we are going in circles, becasue no evidence can convince you all, since deep down inside, you KNOW that you benefit from this unfarly skewed system at the cost of the rest of the players.

from my experience with both centralized trade houses and ESO? centralized system, all day every day. unfortunately - the real reason why its going to be here to stay for a while, or possible for as long as the game exists, is NOT because its a better system. but rather because its the only significant gold sink this game has in form of weekly trader fees. not because its better style of economy. but because ZOS haven't figured out another way to drain gold out of economy to stave off inflation. they tried with housing, but it doesn't have enough of a use and the costs are still one time rather then ongoing, so...

What mmo did you play that only had a centralized AH AND had a thriving economy? Serious question.

every. single. one. WoW actualy has a decent economy, inflation notwithstanding. economy in swtor didn't start going to hell until after patch that decimated population of most servers while creating hyper inflation thanks to an exploit that stayed unpatched for MONTHS. did decently enough in GW2. wasn't trying to do much with a market, but when i needed to buy or sell most things - I could with no issues. Neverwinter even, last I played it was pretty darn workable as a casual.

ESO while workable, is the only game where economy is NOT casual friendly.

Uh...no. You obviously haven't played FFXIV, nor DCUO, nor EVE Online. You obviously have no clue what your talking about as you've consistently failed to provide any actual specifics or said anything verifiable. Trying to talk to you is pointless. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to log in to the game, and enjoy the deals that ESO's economy provides. Have fun beating a dead horse.

no, I have not. the fact that you think that those games having issues with economy whatever those issues may be are due to central AH and NOT other factors is hilariously myoptic. I HAVE provided specifics that are verifiable. you just refuse to accept them.

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Drelkag wrote: »

Not sure how people think it's easier to manipulate this system. Dozens of sister guilds attempting to manipulate the market still gives players dozens of other choices to buy from with other pricing. A centralized market is far easier to dominate and control since there's no other options.

because its so scattered, the chance of a regular person finding an item they are looking for before its snatched up and relisted - are slim to none. because the chance of a casual seller being able to sell their wares at anything other then rock bottom price to re-seller IF they are not stuck selling in trade - are again fairly low. because casual seller is stuck in one of the out of the way guilds.

Much higher chance than having a centralized AH with people buying up all of one item with a single click on a whim and not having to hunt around to resell it a crazy high price.

Edit to add I speak from experience as a crafter on XIV. Can't count how many times I needed a staple crafting item to grind out levels and it was taken over by rich players being resold at a higher price.

except, when more people can sell easier, and when everything is easier to find, its much MUCH harder to take over the market. I have seen people trying to take over the market and fail, because too many people would just relist the stuff again, thinking there's sudden extra demand for it. because listing items with central markets is NOT the pain it is in ESO

Doesn't that apply to your argument as well and just make what you're arguing irrelevant?

Still - what ESO has is much more difficult to price gouge and control the market for a single item. We can only go by hypotheticals until ESO has an AH but from my experience I'd rather not have it.

Feel like we're going in circles. Not much to add besides that.

its much easier in ESO to price gouge. because location, location, location not to mention - limited spaces for limited number of sellers. but we are going in circles, becasue no evidence can convince you all, since deep down inside, you KNOW that you benefit from this unfarly skewed system at the cost of the rest of the players.

from my experience with both centralized trade houses and ESO? centralized system, all day every day. unfortunately - the real reason why its going to be here to stay for a while, or possible for as long as the game exists, is NOT because its a better system. but rather because its the only significant gold sink this game has in form of weekly trader fees. not because its better style of economy. but because ZOS haven't figured out another way to drain gold out of economy to stave off inflation. they tried with housing, but it doesn't have enough of a use and the costs are still one time rather then ongoing, so...

What mmo did you play that only had a centralized AH AND had a thriving economy? Serious question.

every. single. one. WoW actualy has a decent economy, inflation notwithstanding. economy in swtor didn't start going to hell until after patch that decimated population of most servers while creating hyper inflation thanks to an exploit that stayed unpatched for MONTHS. did decently enough in GW2. wasn't trying to do much with a market, but when i needed to buy or sell most things - I could with no issues. Neverwinter even, last I played it was pretty darn workable as a casual.

ESO while workable, is the only game where economy is NOT casual friendly.

I don't think ESO is casual friendly but I think it has a far better economy than any of those games you listed. WoW is hyper inflation personified.

and i have explained exactly WHY its hyper inflation personified. which has nothing to do with centralized auction house and everything to do with Blizzard introducing easy ways to generate ridiculous amounts of gold without enough gold sinks to suction that gold out.

on a plus side, the fact that everything sells for more - means new player can go farm some copper and peace bloom in a starting area and make enough gold to buy their first AND second AND third mount upgrade AND multispec with a LOT less effort difficulty.

I can't name a central AH that isn't hyper inflated. GW2 does alright because gold is tied to gems, not because of a central AH. XIV, WoW, SWTOR - they all become inflated that a new player couldn't afford most basic things.

Edit: You're arguing for hyper-inflation now. Not sure what to make of it.

All I know is I prefer the economy ESO has (along with EVE, a game without a central AH) to the crazy hyper-inflation you see in games with a central AH. XIV, SWTOR, WoW - from my experience they're all the same. And from my personal XIV experience people control the market for a single item way too often. Gonna join the above poster and play some now.

sigh, even ESO is getting inflated. look at the prices of materials. look at the prices of motifs, prices of gear. what new player can afford any of those???? hyper inflation in SWTOR is literally due to 2 factors that can be very. easily traced. a gold generated exploit where you could buy an item from a vendor and sell it back at enormous profit - credits that largely remained in economy. prior to that patch - economy was healthy and affordable for YEARS.. and less so, but still significantly - thanks to changes to quests and quest rewards. and in WoW - again due to the fact that Blizzard made it easier then ever to create gold, while removing some of the significant gold sinks (training) without adding enough new ones soon enough.

oh and are you under impression that you trade gold for gems that Arenanet just creates? you do realize that someone had to have purchased those gems to be traded, right? the reason it does already is because arenanet never added anything that made gold stupid fast to create. its still pretty painstaking to make through regular means, which means it doesn't trickle into economy at alarming rates, while all the gold sinks are still there, so it remains stable.

I love how you all think you understand the economy and all these games you keep bringing up. and you. have no. idea.