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Major Oversight in Morrowind
GrumpyDuckling
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There is a problem with the changes to Repentance in the Morrowind patch that significantly encourages Templars not to group together. In Morrowind, only the Templar casting Repentance can restore stamina from dead bodies, and dead bodies can only be repented once, meaning that grouped Templars have to compete with one another for stamina return. This makes Templar the only class in the game that has to compete with teammates to avoid ZERO stamina return outside of minor/major buffs. Every other class has guaranteed stamina return outside of minor/major buffs:
Dragonknights have guaranteed stamina return from Battle Roar + Helping Hands passives.
Nightblades have guaranteed stamina return (15% recovery) from Refreshing Shadows + Leeching Strikes.
Sorcerers have guaranteed stamina return (20% recovery) from Daedric Protection passive + Dark Deal.
Wardens have guaranteed stamina return (12% recovery) from Flourish passive + Nature's Gift passive + Bull Netch.
ZOS, does your silence thus far regarding this problem (which has been brought up multiple times in a few threads, with tags) suggest that you intended for group Templars to be penalized and forced to compete with one another? If that was the intent, then could you tell us why that decision was made?
Dragonknights have guaranteed stamina return from Battle Roar + Helping Hands passives.
Nightblades have guaranteed stamina return (15% recovery) from Refreshing Shadows + Leeching Strikes.
Sorcerers have guaranteed stamina return (20% recovery) from Daedric Protection passive + Dark Deal.
Wardens have guaranteed stamina return (12% recovery) from Flourish passive + Nature's Gift passive + Bull Netch.
ZOS, does your silence thus far regarding this problem (which has been brought up multiple times in a few threads, with tags) suggest that you intended for group Templars to be penalized and forced to compete with one another? If that was the intent, then could you tell us why that decision was made?
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »There is a problem with the changes to Repentance in the Morrowind patch that significantly encourages Templars not to group together. In Morrowind, only the Templar casting Repentance can restore stamina from dead bodies, and dead bodies can only be repented once, meaning that grouped Templars have to compete with one another for stamina return. This makes Templar the only class in the game that has to compete with teammates to avoid ZERO stamina return outside of minor/major buffs. Every other class has guaranteed stamina return outside of minor/major buffs:
Dragonknights have guaranteed stamina return from Battle Roar + Helping Hands passives.
Nightblades have guaranteed stamina return (15% recovery) from Refreshing Shadows + Leeching Strikes.
Sorcerers have guaranteed stamina return (20% recovery) from Daedric Protection passive + Dark Deal.
Wardens have guaranteed stamina return (12% recovery) from Flourish passive + Nature's Gift passive + Bull Netch.
ZOS, does your silence thus far regarding this problem (which has been brought up multiple times in a few threads, with tags) suggest that you intended for group Templars to be penalized and forced to compete with one another? If that was the intent, then could you tell us why that decision was made?
Honestly it isn't an oversight. It was brought up over and over again on the test server. They just don't care. Couldn't be bothered to respond.
To me it raises an interesting question. How can you balance a class that may have basically unlimited stamina. Or may have none.
Anyway, not an oversight. Just no *** given.6 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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Battle Roar requires you to burn an Ult (lol)GrumpyDuckling wrote: »There is a problem with the changes to Repentance in the Morrowind patch that significantly encourages Templars not to group together. In Morrowind, only the Templar casting Repentance can restore stamina from dead bodies, and dead bodies can only be repented once, meaning that grouped Templars have to compete with one another for stamina return. This makes Templar the only class in the game that has to compete with teammates to avoid ZERO stamina return outside of minor/major buffs. Every other class has guaranteed stamina return outside of minor/major buffs:
Dragonknights have guaranteed stamina return from Battle Roar + Helping Hands passives.
Nightblades have guaranteed stamina return (15% recovery) from Refreshing Shadows + Leeching Strikes.
Sorcerers have guaranteed stamina return (20% recovery) from Daedric Protection passive + Dark Deal.
Wardens have guaranteed stamina return (12% recovery) from Flourish passive + Nature's Gift passive + Bull Netch.
Leeching has a cost associated (unlike repentance) and requires a hit to work.
Dark Deal is only valid for a stamSorc.
Templar gets lower cost as a passive (Restoring Spirit), vice regen.
Templar gets 10% recovery of all three stats simply by having Repentance slotted.
Templar gets other bonuses (Mag Regen from Channeled Focus, for instance).
Pretty sure a group of templars can toss each other shards to return major stat + half of minor stat.
Orbs is available to anyone that hasn't unlocked shards.
Templars can take turns using repentance and all group members still benefit from the heal...
It doesn't encourage them not to group together. It encourages them to coordinate and adjust their playstyle, just as every other class has has to do.Edited by Merlin13KAGL on June 9, 2017 1:08PMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS8 -
makreth✭✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Battle Roar requires you to burn an Ult (lol)GrumpyDuckling wrote: »There is a problem with the changes to Repentance in the Morrowind patch that significantly encourages Templars not to group together. In Morrowind, only the Templar casting Repentance can restore stamina from dead bodies, and dead bodies can only be repented once, meaning that grouped Templars have to compete with one another for stamina return. This makes Templar the only class in the game that has to compete with teammates to avoid ZERO stamina return outside of minor/major buffs. Every other class has guaranteed stamina return outside of minor/major buffs:
Dragonknights have guaranteed stamina return from Battle Roar + Helping Hands passives.
Nightblades have guaranteed stamina return (15% recovery) from Refreshing Shadows + Leeching Strikes.
Sorcerers have guaranteed stamina return (20% recovery) from Daedric Protection passive + Dark Deal.
Wardens have guaranteed stamina return (12% recovery) from Flourish passive + Nature's Gift passive + Bull Netch.
Leeching has a cost associated (unlike repentance) and requires a hit to work.
Dark Deal is only valid for a stamSorc.
Templar gets lower cost as a passive (Restoring Spirit), vice regen.
Templar gets 10% recovery of all three stats simply by having Repentance slotted.
Templar gets other bonuses (Mag Regen from Channeled Focus, for instance).
Pretty sure a group of templars can toss each other shards to return major stat + half of minor stat.
Orbs is available to anyone that hasn't unlocked shards.
Templars can take turns using repentance and all group members still benefit from the heal...
You're way off with your points.... I don't think the OP meant to compare all classes and specs in this thread rather their ability to gain stamina. This means we are focusing on stamina specced builds mostly. Repetence loses it's value as a stamina gain ablity as OP pointed out if more than 1 templar is using it. Shards or orbs could be a solution but you really depend on someone else for that (you and the rest of the group included "compete" for that) so that can't be a totally accepted solution. Then again....stamplars never had an apropriate stamina gain as far as I remember?Edited by makreth on June 9, 2017 2:42PM2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Battle Roar requires you to burn an Ult (lol)GrumpyDuckling wrote: »There is a problem with the changes to Repentance in the Morrowind patch that significantly encourages Templars not to group together. In Morrowind, only the Templar casting Repentance can restore stamina from dead bodies, and dead bodies can only be repented once, meaning that grouped Templars have to compete with one another for stamina return. This makes Templar the only class in the game that has to compete with teammates to avoid ZERO stamina return outside of minor/major buffs. Every other class has guaranteed stamina return outside of minor/major buffs:
Dragonknights have guaranteed stamina return from Battle Roar + Helping Hands passives.
Nightblades have guaranteed stamina return (15% recovery) from Refreshing Shadows + Leeching Strikes.
Sorcerers have guaranteed stamina return (20% recovery) from Daedric Protection passive + Dark Deal.
Wardens have guaranteed stamina return (12% recovery) from Flourish passive + Nature's Gift passive + Bull Netch.
Leeching has a cost associated (unlike repentance) and requires a hit to work.
Dark Deal is only valid for a stamSorc.
Templar gets lower cost as a passive (Restoring Spirit), vice regen.
Templar gets 10% recovery of all three stats simply by having Repentance slotted.
Templar gets other bonuses (Mag Regen from Channeled Focus, for instance).
Pretty sure a group of templars can toss each other shards to return major stat + half of minor stat.
Orbs is available to anyone that hasn't unlocked shards.
Templars can take turns using repentance and all group members still benefit from the heal...
It doesn't encourage them not to group together. It encourages them to coordinate and adjust their playstyle, just as every other class has has to do.
Dragonknight: Burn an ultimate? Are you casting your ultimate on rats just to get stamina back? Are you ignoring Helping Hands?
Nightblade: Leeching still returns stamina. Are you ignoring Refreshing Shadows?
Sorcerer: Dark Deal is valid for all builds. Are you ignoring Daedric Protection?
Templar: Read the first post, we're not talking about minor/major stamina recovery. We're talking about additional means of stamina return.
Every class can return resources to one another with Orbs. What's your point?
We're not talking about heals, we're talking about stamina return...
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Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hey, sweet. you identified a problem. Now you've moaned about it care to offer up a solution?0 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Hey, sweet. you identified a problem. Now you've moaned about it care to offer up a solution?
There are 2 solutions.
1. Revert repentance to work the way it did pre morrowind.
2. Make it so bodies can be repented by multiple templars but only once for each.3 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Hey, sweet. you identified a problem. Now you've moaned about it care to offer up a solution?
Thanks for the productive comment.
Allow bodies to be repented more than once, for stamina, but only once for health return. That allows teamed up Templars to return stamina, without the potential for heals becoming OP.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anything the brought resources to the group was removed. Essentially, if repentance wasn't nerfed into the ground everyone would run stam.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Anything the brought resources to the group was removed. Essentially, if repentance wasn't nerfed into the ground everyone would run stam.
Which is fine, if ZOS wants to nerf a single player returning stamina to the whole group. But this change won't allow 2 or more Templars the ability to return stamina to just themselves.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Anything the brought resources to the group was removed. Essentially, if repentance wasn't nerfed into the ground everyone would run stam.
I don't think anyone is argueing that. But what they did to repent is the same as if they made other classes resource regen lock out other players of the same class, so they couldn't regen.
So say dark deal when cast locked other sorcs nearby out of it for a while. Or when a nightblades used leeching strikes no other nightblades nearby could cast it for a while.
That would be fun and encourage them to coordinate and adjust their play styles. How fun!Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on June 9, 2017 4:50PM1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Anything the brought resources to the group was removed. Essentially, if repentance wasn't nerfed into the ground everyone would run stam.
I don't think anyone is argueing that. But what they did to repent is the same as if they made other classes resource regen lock out other players of the same class, so they couldn't regen.
So say dark deal when cast locked other sorcs nearby out of it for a while. Or when a nightblades used leeching strikes no other nightblades nearby could cast it for a while.
That would be fun and encourage them to coordinate and adjust their play styles. How fun!
^ Well said.0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Repentance NEVER needed a nerf and needs to be flat out reverted back to the way it was. Just another buff for zergs the way it is now.1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Hey, sweet. you identified a problem. Now you've moaned about it care to offer up a solution?
Thanks for the productive comment.
Allow bodies to be repented more than once, for stamina, but only once for health return. That allows teamed up Templars to return stamina, without the potential for heals becoming OP.
Except, without a cooldown / time out on the bodies themselves, this would make it even more OP than the original skill, as each templar could pick and choose when to repent.
It basically works like a syngery now, and just like a synergy, all 4 people can't grab it once.
The other skills/passives mentioned (as only those were 'disputed') come with a cost or requirement of some sort.
Again, the answer is already in the toolkit of the group makeup your describe.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »We're talking about additional means of stamina return.- Toss each other shards
- Take turns repenting
- Lower the return if it can be used by multiple templars, limit the number of repentable bodies per cast, or drastically limit the timeframe where mutli-repents can take place.
They dialed it back for a reason. My templar gameplay changed to accommodate.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree. Repentance should be reverted.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Hey, sweet. you identified a problem. Now you've moaned about it care to offer up a solution?
Thanks for the productive comment.
Allow bodies to be repented more than once, for stamina, but only once for health return. That allows teamed up Templars to return stamina, without the potential for heals becoming OP.
Except, without a cooldown / time out on the bodies themselves, this would make it even more OP than the original skill, as each templar could pick and choose when to repent.
It basically works like a syngery now, and just like a synergy, all 4 people can't grab it once.
The other skills/passives mentioned (as only those were 'disputed') come with a cost or requirement of some sort.
Again, the answer is already in the toolkit of the group makeup your describe.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »We're talking about additional means of stamina return.- Toss each other shards
- Take turns repenting
- Lower the return if it can be used by multiple templars, limit the number of repentable bodies per cast, or drastically limit the timeframe where mutli-repents can take place.
They dialed it back for a reason. My templar gameplay changed to accommodate.
What cost requirement are you talking about when it comes to passives? There are passives for other classes that allow, 12, 15, and 20% stamina recovery without casting any skills. And DKs, yes have to cast skills, but at least it is GUARANTEED that when they cast those skills, they get stamina back.
The whole point here is the possibility of getting guaranteed stamina return.
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PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭Wait so Templars want too have a way of gaining back resources easier than every class (except maybe sorc, SMDH) because it used to work that way? I want my old leeching strikes where I got resources 10% of the time from class skills.
Or we adjust to the new normal... You know like everyone else.PSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »Wait so Templars want too have a way of gaining back resources easier than every class (except maybe sorc, SMDH) because it used to work that way? I want my old leeching strikes where I got resources 10% of the time from class skills.
Or we adjust to the new normal... You know like everyone else.
Sounds fair. But we are going to make it so it doesn't work when there are other nightblades around. Still want that back?2