Are World Firsts Really Legitimate?

WhiteMage · June 2017

Hodor has had 53 days to get the speed run in vHoF, since the day they first had PTS access. For console, their clock started 3 days ago. Console users have 50 days left to claim the rightful speed run "world first," in terms of opportunity to do so.

As for the vHoF clear, I don't recognize "firsts" on the first day, especially considering they already did that in the closed beta. If this was a contest, it's a hollow one.

xblackroxe · June 2017

Knootewoot wrote: »

Nobody cares about world's first achievements. I don't care about regular achievements also.

All the salt in our thread says otherwise xD

Dasovaruilos · June 2017

I''m happy that the ones getting those achievments from HoF are the ones thet are not afraid to share information, builds, strategies even though they are competitive.

As others have said, a lot of Hodor members post a lot of useful information for eveyone. A lot of other competitive guilds would never do that aftaid that would bring competition.

People will always be jealous.

Of course it would have a whole different weight if all platforms and all players got their hands on content for the first time at the same time,

But we all know Hodor would still likely be the first even if that was the case.

Coilbox · June 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Nobody cares about world's first achievements. I don't care about regular achievements also.

All the salt in our thread says otherwise xD

That's cause a lot of people consider jealous and salty comments like 'I dont care about world first whatever' and some people really mean it. Me for example, I dont really care... I mean, good for you guys, well done. Other than that, in my opinion, sharing it is just about ego...

LadyNalcarya · June 2017

WhiteMage wrote: »

Hodor has had 53 days to get the speed run in vHoF, since the day they first had PTS access. For console, their clock started 3 days ago. Console users have 50 days left to claim the rightful speed run "world first," in terms of opportunity to do so.

As for the vHoF clear, I don't recognize "firsts" on the first day, especially considering they already did that in the closed beta. If this was a contest, it's a hollow one.

With this closed beta thing there wasnt any contest, really (since not every raid group got invites and could participate from the start of beta).
Of course, that doesnt diminish the achievement (which is pretty impressive) and their effort, there's just little to none competition. When beta test started, everyone knew that Hodor was going to get the first clear... So they did.

Vipstaakki · June 2017

This is the World's first 37th post of this thread.

Aisle9 · June 2017

This is the world's first post on this thread holding a rubber chicken

central_scrutinizer · June 2017

It's technically correct, but I don't think that people should crow about a "world first" in particular situations where PC has access to the content on live servers well before consoles. As far as competition goes, it's more of a "platform first", since vast swaths of people are not even given a chance to compete at all.

Not that consoles would win either way, but still.

Khenarthi · June 2017

WeyounTM wrote: »

Feeling the need to make a posting with a "Worlds first" in the title just seems odd to me in general. It sorta smells like behaviour we encountered way back in Kindergarden. I have since grown out of that sort of mentality . Just leave the "World" out of it. The world doesn't care . If 8 Billion people would actually play ESO and compete to get it done....well maybe then the title would be correct.

And how about mixing these things with a little bit of humor? Like "Worlds first trial cleared with Wardens and Bears only". Or clearing a trial with 12 Nords or Woodelves instead of the usual min-maxing that goes on and on and on and on ;-)

Now these player-made challenges I can applaud! Because making it work would actually be worthy of admiration, and it sounds really fun.

Otherwise i just shrug off the threads of people looking for... praise? Validation? Seems to me that if someone needs a pat on the back from random forum people for running the content, they're missing the point of a game, which is to have fun. Being the 1st to complete content just means they had more time to spend training than other teams did. Nothing spectacular or special about it.

LadyNalcarya · June 2017

central_scrutinizer wrote: »

It's technically correct, but I don't think that people should crow about a "world first" in this particular situation where PC had access to it on live servers well before consoles. As far as competition goes, it's more of a "platform first", since vast swaths of people were not even given a chance to compete at all.

Not that consoles would have won either way, but still.

Its not just "platform first".
It was more like "the first PC guild where everyone got pts invites and was willing to practice every day". They actually invested a lot of time and effort in this trial, and they are very good players.
So, imo its the achievement that is valuable, not its "worldfirstness".

P.S. Tbh I feel like the trial access shouldve been available for everyone from the start ( including console players ) to make the race for world 1st meaningful. Yes, Hodor would've won it anyway (most likely), but at least everyone would have equal chances.

mb10 · June 2017

Completely agree lol pc users have had morrowind for like a month now including PTS

Console users have had it for 3 days so the whole "worlds first" thing isn't that impressive

And tbh "worlds first" on a dungeon on elder scrolls online?

Ok.. loooool

Sotihe · June 2017

It really doesn't matter to me, cool if they do it so what if they don't. When eso is long gone they will just be in another game doing it to and guess what the same amount of people still wont give a crap. Because in the end it really doesn't matter. If they want to boast about being first let them. If they get off on that sort of thing than more power to them.

KerinKor · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

After the most recent "world first" that was posted, I'm really starting to question the legitimacy of it all. I'm also not impressed

Word firsts never have and never will be relevant since many are done by players with access to pre-release/PTS systems where they learn the entire fight before release and by no means does everyone have the chance to do that, therefore on release day it's nothing remotely like a level playing field.

ALL WORLD FIRSTS happen pre-release during testing, only content never made available to anyone pre-release could be considered meaningful in the world-first-epeen races and even then it's a a worthless 'achievement' it simplymeans person A was able to do something before person B for umpteen reasons entirely unrelated to any personal skill.

jlboozer · June 2017

I agree worlds first means nothing until trials are taken off the pts, and also released the same day for all platforms. The way it is now most the player base can't even compete, so no props given. Hodor accomplished nothing...not a fair playing field!

supaskrub · June 2017

Whats the issue?.. Kudos to the guys and girls i say, some group has to be first so why not the ones who have put in the time, the effort, have great teamwork and have the skills and knowledge of the games combat mechanics regarding gear, skills and abilities that compliment a team.

Sure you can have a weak arguement and say "but.. yeah they had loads of practice on pts giving them a head start", but lets be realistic, the smart money would have been on Hodor to finish first anyway regardless.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

They're legit (the claim) until someone disputes it (with proof).
It's kinda what they do... (Hodor, and such)
Even if you measured the clock from first available access, I'm guessing odds are they'd still obtain it.
If you really want to steal some of that thunder, beat their leaderboard score.

These players and guilds are elite for a reason, and I'm pretty sure attitude isn't that reason. If your concern is per platform, then consider there is still the option of "World First: (Platform _______)"

Coilbox · June 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

They're legit (the claim) until someone disputes it (with proof).

It's kinda what they do... (Hodor, and such)

Even if you measured the clock from first available access, I'm guessing odds are they'd still obtain it.

If you really want to steal some of that thunder, beat their leaderboard score.

These players and guilds are elite for a reason, and I'm pretty sure attitude isn't that reason. If your concern is per platform, then consider there is still the option of "World First: (Platform _______)"

Well, what if someone else comes with a capture of the achievement and claims that he did it before Hodor...? What proof has Hodor to be the firsts doing it? In any case they are the firsts on posting it on the forum and youtube, but if someone else comes and claim they were first but didnt post it anywher...?

No one would have proof, not Hodor nor whoever would make such a claim.

DannyLV702 · June 2017

The hypocracy is real

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285410/1st-vet-craddle-of-shadows-clear-on-ps4#latest

laksikus · June 2017

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The hypocracy is real

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285410/1st-vet-craddle-of-shadows-clear-on-ps4#latest

OP got called out^^

faerigirl · June 2017

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The hypocracy is real

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285410/1st-vet-craddle-of-shadows-clear-on-ps4#latest

omg! roflmao!

Too funny! Thanks for the laugh!

kevlarto_ESO · June 2017

Could care less, if the person that did a so called first enjoyed it that's great for them, but a lot of these people are same people that will come into the forums and complain there is nothing left to do, and with all the exploiting and cheating in pvp any first of any kind is suspicious.

It is what it is, and really has no effect on my game play so why care.

theamazingx · June 2017

Depends how you define "legitimate".

In terms of platforms, yeah, PC has pts access, got preorder access, addons, even more reliable hardware... I can understand wanting a divide between consoles. Fortunately, there's no prize, achievement, accolade, title, or reward of any kind related to "world first", and I'm sure people will be more than happy to congratulate Xbox and Ps4 firsts the same way they congratulated PC first.

But confined to PC, yes, there's no real question about it. Every raiding guild on PC that had a chance at competing with them in the first place had the same opportunities that they did.

xblackroxe · June 2017

Coilbox wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

They're legit (the claim) until someone disputes it (with proof).

It's kinda what they do... (Hodor, and such)

Even if you measured the clock from first available access, I'm guessing odds are they'd still obtain it.

If you really want to steal some of that thunder, beat their leaderboard score.

These players and guilds are elite for a reason, and I'm pretty sure attitude isn't that reason. If your concern is per platform, then consider there is still the option of "World First: (Platform _______)"

Well, what if someone else comes with a capture of the achievement and claims that he did it before Hodor...? What proof has Hodor to be the firsts doing it? In any case they are the firsts on posting it on the forum and youtube, but if someone else comes and claim they were first but didnt post it anywher...?

No one would have proof, not Hodor nor whoever would make such a claim.

Thers a date right to the achievement so unless somebody shows up with the same day we are first.

Rickter · June 2017

World First achievements only matter to the ones it matters to. Just like everything in life.

Example: Lets say youve been a mechanic all your life and you were a darn good one. In fact, lets say you and your mechanic co workers had a contest on who could change out the oil in customers vehicles and you were so good you were the fastest and held that record.

fast forward a few years and you decide for whatever reason you want a change in career. IT looks like there is a lot of money to be made so you do what you need to do and apply to your first IT job - do you think, in that interview, they give a flying flip you were the fastest oil changer?

no

So my analogy is that the "high end pve endgame community" really cares about these things. It doesnt matter how long they had to "practice the content" its understood and expected that everyone in that community would have done what was necessary to put them in the competitive pacing. i.e. access to the beta.

That's their drive and passion and NO ONE should diminish or discredit that from them. That's selfish, pitiful, and wrong.

My problem is with the elitism but thats a different story. I call it like i see it. but thats not what we're talking about, we're talking about the legitimacy of a drive and passion.

You wouldnt want someone to try and take that away from you, so dont try to do it to others. Give props where props are due.

EDIT: I would like to add that what is happening in that thread is literally one individual being a poor sportsman. He has a history and has openly displayed that behavior time and time again. In fact, its like a child that doesnt get what he wants, he takes his toys and wont let anyone play with them. That individual literally quit the game because world firsts were taken from him. Instead of staying and rising to the challenge, he quit. His opinion shouldnt matter.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

Coilbox wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

They're legit (the claim) until someone disputes it (with proof).

It's kinda what they do... (Hodor, and such)

Even if you measured the clock from first available access, I'm guessing odds are they'd still obtain it.

If you really want to steal some of that thunder, beat their leaderboard score.

These players and guilds are elite for a reason, and I'm pretty sure attitude isn't that reason. If your concern is per platform, then consider there is still the option of "World First: (Platform _______)"

Well, what if someone else comes with a capture of the achievement and claims that he did it before Hodor...? What proof has Hodor to be the firsts doing it? In any case they are the firsts on posting it on the forum and youtube, but if someone else comes and claim they were first but didnt post it anywher...?

No one would have proof, not Hodor nor whoever would make such a claim.

Thers a date right to the achievement so unless somebody shows up with the same day we are first.

@Coilbox timestamps are silly, aren't they?

Considering I'm pretty sure there are lots of other corroborating pieces of 'evidence' as well. (Video, Screenshots from multiple sources, etc.)

Fortunately the sheer number of those that have the achievement at all helps narrow the pool a bit, don't you think?

gj to you and yours @xblackroxe . Props given!

Alcast · June 2017

Artemiisia wrote: »

Still, the practice and dedication those people are putting into this is impressive, I wont be able to sit in a trial like 7-8 hours each day to get that kinda results, so no matter if they have had access for 2 months before it on PTS, they deserve the reoknations of their hard work.

The thing is also, some of the people from Hodor, is helping tons of people with builds and such, on youtube, websites and such, which is hugely appreciated by the common folks

Thanks

We are trying to get more open as well in terms of streaming & releasing video content.

People overestimate the hours per week we raid. We have 3 raid days and each raid is 3hours. In the end we raid about 6 hours per week because we have serious problems with people going afk mid raid or coming late to raids >.>

@Ch4mpTW All PC Raidguilds had access to the PTS server, we just put the most time in it whereas other guilds did not because they did not preparse as good as we did or had drama in guild etc. I am aware that console did not have that chance, but you should not compare PC release vs Console release, as you get the update always 2 weeks later.

xblackroxe · June 2017

Rickter wrote: »

World First achievements only matter to the ones it matters to. Just like everything in life.

Example: Lets say youve been a mechanic all your life and you were a darn good one. In fact, lets say you and your mechanic co workers had a contest on who could change out the oil in customers vehicles and you were so good you were the fastest and held that record.

fast forward a few years and you decide for whatever reason you want a change in career. IT looks like there is a lot of money to be made so you do what you need to do and apply to your first IT job - do you think, in that interview, they give a flying flip you were the fastest oil changer?

no

So my analogy is that the "high end pve endgame community" really cares about these things. It doesnt matter how long they had to "practice the content" its understood and expected that everyone in that community would have done what was necessary to put them in the competitive pacing. i.e. access to the beta.

That's their drive and passion and NO ONE should diminish or discredit that from them. That's selfish, pitiful, and wrong.

My problem is with the elitism but thats a different story. I call it like i see it. but thats not what we're talking about, we're talking about the legitimacy of a drive and passion.

You wouldnt want someone to try and take that away from you, so dont try to do it to others. Give props where props are due.

EDIT: I would like to add that what is happening in that thread is literally one individual being a poor sportsman. He has a history and has openly displayed that behavior time and time again. In fact, its like a child that doesnt get what he wants, he takes his toys and wont let anyone play with them. That individual literally quit the game because world firsts were taken from him. Instead of staying and rising to the challenge, he quit. His opinion shouldnt matter.

While I completely agree with you farming tears on the forums is fun. So people don't change, whenever we have an achievement to share bring us those tasty salty tears of yours.

Dantaria · June 2017

Khenarthi wrote: »

Otherwise i just shrug off the threads of people looking for... praise? Validation? Seems to me that if someone needs a pat on the back from random forum people for running the content, they're missing the point of a game, which is to have fun. Being the 1st to complete content just means they had more time to spend training than other teams did. Nothing spectacular or special about it.

Duh. You know, I am getting so tired of this in RL, so I'm just gonna mindlessly rant, because why not.

[rant]Like... where the hell does it come from? This mentality "people should be silent about their achievements"?

People are by nature social. In most cases we want to share our accomplishments and since when did that become wrong? And suddenly "egotistical"?

Hell, if I received a call "Dear Dantaria, you were nominated on Nobel prize in phisics", I would straight away call all my friends with "OMG GUYS YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT JUST HAPPENED" and then... yeah, maybe run outside and scream on top of my lungs "I GOT NOMINATED ON NOBEL". The latter probably is an overkill, but hey - not illegal

Since when being glad of accomplishment - any accomplishment - and wanting to share it became... what? Sore winning?

I would have understood all this, if Hodor went with their speedrun in newspaper and asked them to post an article. Because yeah - you guys nuts, the majority of humanity wouldn't even know what the hell.

But they went on ESO forum, strictly to fellow ESO-players, like-minded people. They came to platform created specifically for discussing the game and said "Hey, guys, look what we did! Wasn't easy, awesome, right?"

And I can understand that someone is jealous. I can understand that someone doesn't care, because they don't do trials at all. But I absolutely cannot understand the "ego" accusations.

Don't talk about success. Be silent about your small victories, which are important for you. Hush, people should never talk about this kind of stuff.

Seriously? Seriously?![/rant]

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The hypocracy is real

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285410/1st-vet-craddle-of-shadows-clear-on-ps4#latest

laksikus wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The hypocracy is real

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285410/1st-vet-craddle-of-shadows-clear-on-ps4#latest

OP got called out^^

Called out...? Called out on...? I don't get it. Did I make that thread? Yes. Absolutely. I made plenty of threads similar, and threads of me solo'ing dungeons and world bosses. And? Your point? And for the record, I think it was very juvenile of me making those threads. Why? Because in the end they ultimately meant nothing. It was for digital bragging rights that amounted to nada. I can't walk into a business, and place "1st PS4-NA _____ Clear" as a reason why I should be hired. Kek.

@DannyLV702 Here is some advice. If you want to call yourself "exposing" me, make sure to post something at least within the past 6 months. That way it's close to being relevant. August 2016 tho'...? You are digging way too deep, and trying far too hard to go about humiliating someone over the Internet. And even that didn't work, as I don't regret making those threads back then nor this current thread now.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Still, the practice and dedication those people are putting into this is impressive, I wont be able to sit in a trial like 7-8 hours each day to get that kinda results, so no matter if they have had access for 2 months before it on PTS, they deserve the reoknations of their hard work.

The thing is also, some of the people from Hodor, is helping tons of people with builds and such, on youtube, websites and such, which is hugely appreciated by the common folks

Thanks We are trying to get more open as well in terms of streaming & releasing video content.

People overestimate the hours per week we raid. We have 3 raid days and each raid is 3hours. In the end we raid about 6 hours per week because we have serious problems with people going afk mid raid or coming late to raids >.>
@Ch4mpTW All PC Raidguilds had access to the PTS server, we just put the most time in it whereas other guilds did not because they did not preparse as good as we did or had drama in guild etc. I am aware that console did not have that chance, but you should not compare PC release vs Console release, as you get the update always 2 weeks later.

@Alcast I understand, and this thread was by no means meant to belittle you all's achievement and clown you all. It was meant for me to see how everyone's thoughts and opinions were on how something could be called a world first clear of something, when early access is had and all that jazz. I even said congratulations, and I meant it. You all did a great job doing whatever it is that you all do. Am I impressed by it? No. Not really. But, am I pleased to see another person shining and doing well? Absolutely. No need for me to be a hater (unless you or someone you know is the first Warden with Master Angler).