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Why do very old mmorpg's have a better wardrobe system than ESO?
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Agobi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure older games have these things because back then they could be arsed to make an effort when making games ,not just do the minimum to turn a profit
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Balsagna✭✭✭✭Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »World of Warcraft Release Date: November 23rd, 2004
Transmog Patch Release and Date: Patch 4.3.0 - November 29, 2011
By my calculations ESO has a number of years before they need to beat "other" games and introduce transmog. Also, I really prefer they fix the litany of bugs and problems with the group finder/bg queue prior to spending resources on cosmetic improvements. I like to actually play the game.
The first vehicle with a combustion engine was created in 1808.
The first patent for airbags was submitted in 1951.
That doesn't mean that every company that starts producing automobiles is excused from having airbags for 143 years.
That goes for everything, not just cosmetics *cough* Battlegrounds features *cough*.
Well, the first airbags were installed in cars in the early to mid 70s, and they didn't become the mandatory industry standard for another 10-15 years. So your own example is proving my point for me.1 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You kinda answered your question.
How old WoW was when it got trans..shalabalabala-whatever? ESO is just 3 years old. It will get there in a couple of years.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
Andarne✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and crew, when are you gonna add a proper cosmetic system?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w_XFO-hYtc
LotRO's Outfitting System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP7cJVbq0t4
SWTOR Outfitting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p7hyAxa35s
STO Outfitting7 -
mihaiisraging✭✭✭Transmog is not even hard to code,but hey, if it will cost crowns then people will start complaining (wich I agree because this should be in the game since day one...or atleast first months for free) or it will maybe come in a new chapter? Who knows0 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »World of Warcraft Release Date: November 23rd, 2004
Transmog Patch Release and Date: Patch 4.3.0 - November 29, 2011
By my calculations ESO has a number of years before they need to beat "other" games and introduce transmog. Also, I really prefer they fix the litany of bugs and problems with the group finder/bg queue prior to spending resources on cosmetic improvements. I like to actually play the game.
The first vehicle with a combustion engine was created in 1808.
The first patent for airbags was submitted in 1951.
That doesn't mean that every company that starts producing automobiles is excused from having airbags for 143 years.
That goes for everything, not just cosmetics *cough* Battlegrounds features *cough*.
Well, the first airbags were installed in cars in the early to mid 70s, and they didn't become the mandatory industry standard for another 10-15 years. So your own example is proving my point for me.
Then under your logic, all automobile companies should have 10-15 years after they sell their first car to implement airbags into their design, which is certainly not the case.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The single reason why Older/Original MMORPG's have a better wardrobe system, OP:Gothlander wrote: »The dye system is cool but it sucks all the crafting motifs I learned are useless since I wear gear from dungeons.
Are they ever going to introduce transmogrification like WoW?
- The Older/Original MMORPG's were about founding an entire Genre, getting people into that genre, and then giving them magnitudes of choices and freedom to do as they please with as little walls as possible. It was literally about taking High-Fantasy, and letting the Players run with it.
- Modern MMORPG's exist in a founded Genre, but have lost that creative drive to expand/evolve the Genre, and are using the above listed traits to simply make as much cash as possible before their cash-grab choices run their MMORPG's into the ground and they have to shut the servers down. Literally; they're making choices to try to grab as much cash as possible, but those very same choices are driving Players away from their games, thus increasing the need to generate even more cash, which leads to a development cycle that does nothing but fuel Cash Shop development, which then chases more Players away.
It's a vicious, self-defeating cycle, and only a few MMORPG's are resisting starting the cycle. Most modern MMORPG's (ESO included, though ZOS didn't start the cycle in ESO until they hired "The Lady"...) are fully committed-to, and are being consumed-by, this very Cash Shop cycle of development.
And that's why so many things (aside from graphics) were better in the Older/Original generation of MMORPG's compared to Modern MMORPG's.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!5 -
Rawreak Rovyre✭✭✭I'm probably in the minority camp on this one, but I prefer the simplicity/relative lack of choice in wardrobe in this game. I got so sick of WoW's transmog system because invariably everyone looked the same in the same three pieces with the floating magical orb sticking out of your butt and lighting pouring up from under the sky. Then FFXI's glamour system. Well, it's called glamour, to start. That should give you an idea of how sparkly the kitties got there.
Yes, it's a fantasy game, but at the same time, plain old hood and bow and arrow work for me, thank you!
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kalarro✭✭✭Call me silly, but having played many of those games with transmog, I prefer not having one. I like to look like the items Im wearing, and be able to recognice what other players are wearing.1
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Call me silly, but having played many of those games with transmog, I prefer not having one. I like to look like the items Im wearing, and be able to recognice what other players are wearing.
You wouldn't have to use it, so you could still see what you are wearing. People can already hide their equipment In costumes... so...Nothing would change for you?12 -
Balsagna✭✭✭✭You kinda answered your question.
How old WoW was when it got trans..shalabalabala-whatever? ESO is just 3 years old. It will get there in a couple of years.
That is essentially my point. I, personally, would prefer that ZoS irons out some of the game breaking bugs that prevent people from actually playing the game, rather then spend resources making people look pretty.
If transmog was something that actually effected the outcome of anything then I would agree, but it doesn't. I am more interested in them spending resources to fix the content they have, not make more broken content.1 -
Balsagna✭✭✭✭Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »World of Warcraft Release Date: November 23rd, 2004
Transmog Patch Release and Date: Patch 4.3.0 - November 29, 2011
By my calculations ESO has a number of years before they need to beat "other" games and introduce transmog. Also, I really prefer they fix the litany of bugs and problems with the group finder/bg queue prior to spending resources on cosmetic improvements. I like to actually play the game.
The first vehicle with a combustion engine was created in 1808.
The first patent for airbags was submitted in 1951.
That doesn't mean that every company that starts producing automobiles is excused from having airbags for 143 years.
That goes for everything, not just cosmetics *cough* Battlegrounds features *cough*.
Well, the first airbags were installed in cars in the early to mid 70s, and they didn't become the mandatory industry standard for another 10-15 years. So your own example is proving my point for me.
Then under your logic, all automobile companies should have 10-15 years after they sell their first car to implement airbags into their design, which is certainly not the case.
My point is, just because another company currently has an airbag, does not mean every car has an air bag immediately.
Just because WoW has transmog, doesn't mean every game needs to have transmog to be an effective MMO.\
Also, your analogy is bad because airbags are integral for your safety. It is a feature that play a necessary role in the MMO known as driving a car. Transmog on the other hand, is not integral to ESO in any way shape or form. A better example would be a feature in a car that is appreciated, and has now been adopted as an industry standard. Something like air conditioning perhaps.0 -
Gothlander✭✭✭✭You kinda answered your question.
How old WoW was when it got trans..shalabalabala-whatever? ESO is just 3 years old. It will get there in a couple of years.
That is essentially my point. I, personally, would prefer that ZoS irons out some of the game breaking bugs that prevent people from actually playing the game, rather then spend resources making people look pretty.
If transmog was something that actually effected the outcome of anything then I would agree, but it doesn't. I am more interested in them spending resources to fix the content they have, not make more broken content.
They should of fixed bugs before housing and battlegrounds. Wardrobe system can only help retain players from leaving this game.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
TESO needs a wardrobe system badly. Something similar to WoW's tmog system would make this game one of the best mmorpg out there!2 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »World of Warcraft Release Date: November 23rd, 2004
Transmog Patch Release and Date: Patch 4.3.0 - November 29, 2011
By my calculations ESO has a number of years before they need to beat "other" games and introduce transmog. Also, I really prefer they fix the litany of bugs and problems with the group finder/bg queue prior to spending resources on cosmetic improvements. I like to actually play the game.
The first vehicle with a combustion engine was created in 1808.
The first patent for airbags was submitted in 1951.
That doesn't mean that every company that starts producing automobiles is excused from having airbags for 143 years.
That goes for everything, not just cosmetics *cough* Battlegrounds features *cough*.
Well, the first airbags were installed in cars in the early to mid 70s, and they didn't become the mandatory industry standard for another 10-15 years. So your own example is proving my point for me.
Then under your logic, all automobile companies should have 10-15 years after they sell their first car to implement airbags into their design, which is certainly not the case.
My point is, just because another company currently has an airbag, does not mean every car has an air bag immediately.
Just because WoW has transmog, doesn't mean every game needs to have transmog to be an effective MMO.\
Also, your analogy is bad because airbags are integral for your safety. It is a feature that play a necessary role in the MMO known as driving a car. Transmog on the other hand, is not integral to ESO in any way shape or form. A better example would be a feature in a car that is appreciated, and has now been adopted as an industry standard. Something like air conditioning perhaps.
Obviously a transmog system is not integral to an MMO, however using the excuse that it took another MMO, which was released 13 years ago, 7 years to implement the feature is not a valid excuse for as to why that same feature is absent in ESO.
You're arguing semantics when the fact of the matter is that ESO has had 9 years to examine and take notes on features already implemented in previous MMOs, and they ignore them time and time again. As others have mentioned, there are numerous other MMOs on the market that have adopted these features as industry standards, while ESO lives in its own little world pretending that no other MMO has ever existed, and therefore there are no standards set.Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 8, 2017 2:30PMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!2 -
Agobi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm probably in the minority camp on this one, but I prefer the simplicity/relative lack of choice in wardrobe in this game. I got so sick of WoW's transmog system because invariably everyone looked the same in the same three pieces with the floating magical orb sticking out of your butt and lighting pouring up from under the sky. Then FFXI's glamour system. Well, it's called glamour, to start. That should give you an idea of how sparkly the kitties got there.
Yes, it's a fantasy game, but at the same time, plain old hood and bow and arrow work for me, thank you!
Ah yes,The old "I dont like it,so nobody should have it" argument ...a true classic
Personally I prefer more options and choices instead of less,but thats just me o.O7 -
Wicked_Wolf✭✭✭✭Agreed about Lotro. They have a fantastic system that's both friendly to the player and to the company's profit. Tons of items to use in game and so many in the store that make them money. I truly see no downside to this.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Note that wow did not get transmorg until just before Pandora.Pretty sure older games have these things because back then they could be arsed to make an effort when making games ,not just do the minimum to turn a profit
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wicked_Wolf wrote: »Agreed about Lotro. They have a fantastic system that's both friendly to the player and to the company's profit. Tons of items to use in game and so many in the store that make them money. I truly see no downside to this.
Yup, there isn't any downside. People who like it use it, and those that don't continue on like it's not even there.
I love finding the worst looking or most basic gear in the game, equipping it and dying it the most boring/plain colors and then hopping in to PvP and clobbering some guy/gal who is wearing the fanciest gear possible, or the most expensive look available in the Crown store.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and crew, when are you gonna add a proper cosmetic system?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w_XFO-hYtc
LotRO's Outfitting Systemhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP7cJVbq0t4
SWTOR Outfittinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p7hyAxa35s
STO Outfitting
Not the graphic and quality of those games tho...to be fair ESOs details and quality on high end settings blow all of those away.
Being fair are we askingfor too much too soon?-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not the graphic and quality of those games tho...to be fair ESOs details and quality on high end settings blow all of those away.
Being fair are we askingfor too much too soon?
Well the LotRO one was uploaded in 2011, 3 years before ESO was even released. ESO frankly better have nicer graphics than a game that was released in 2007.
LotRO graphics have actually held up pretty well over the years. The character detail levels not so much, but in so far as the environments and atmosphere, that game still does very well for over 10 years old.
In fact, this video does a good job at showing exactly that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cid7dNHgoBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zzvDo6ZZso Edited by danno8 on June 8, 2017 5:01PM2 -
AshTal✭✭✭✭Hopefully they will "Sell" some way to use some of the old motifs - I would say use but we all know we will have to pay for it. I spend ages trying to get robes which don't have hip flaps, shoulder pads or anything else what looks stupid, floats in mid air and cuts through gear.
As such wear a costume.0 -
Rawreak Rovyre✭✭✭I'm probably in the minority camp on this one, but I prefer the simplicity/relative lack of choice in wardrobe in this game. I got so sick of WoW's transmog system because invariably everyone looked the same in the same three pieces with the floating magical orb sticking out of your butt and lighting pouring up from under the sky. Then FFXI's glamour system. Well, it's called glamour, to start. That should give you an idea of how sparkly the kitties got there.
Yes, it's a fantasy game, but at the same time, plain old hood and bow and arrow work for me, thank you!
Ah yes,The old "I dont like it,so nobody should have it" argument ...a true classic
Personally I prefer more options and choices instead of less,but thats just me o.O
Please re-read my comment. There was no argument about not implementing it; it was a personal opinion for why (to me), the game is good as it is now.0 -
Wicked_Wolf✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not the graphic and quality of those games tho...to be fair ESOs details and quality on high end settings blow all of those away.
Being fair are we askingfor too much too soon?
Well the LotRO one was uploaded in 2011, 3 years before ESO was even released. ESO frankly better have nicer graphics than a game that was released in 2007.
LotRO graphics have actually held up pretty well over the years. The character detail levels not so much, but in so far as the environments and atmosphere, that game still does very well for over 10 years old.
In fact, this video does a good job at showing exactly that:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cid7dNHgoBshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zzvDo6ZZso
Lotro also has cloaks with physics. Between that and what you've shown above, they're doing damn good in the graphical fidelity department
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I blame the general consoleification of games.Gothlander wrote: »Why do very old mmorpg's have a better wardrobe system than ESO?
The user interfaces are being dumbed-down and "simplified" ever since consoles were able to run AAA titles.
At this rate, we'll all be watching game movies in 15 years where you can click the "like" button every few minutes.
Edited by SirAndy on June 8, 2017 5:10PM4 -
Caligamy_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Off the top of my head I can't even think of another MMO that doesn't have this as a feature.. when I login and look at my character list now its really freaking boring because they're all in the same 1 or 2 costumes. Drop sets are hideously ugly (looking at you Necropotence & Grothdarr combo) so the only option now days is Warden suit for everything?
*sigh*love is love0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not the graphic and quality of those games tho...to be fair ESOs details and quality on high end settings blow all of those away.
Being fair are we askingfor too much too soon?
Well the LotRO one was uploaded in 2011, 3 years before ESO was even released. ESO frankly better have nicer graphics than a game that was released in 2007.
LotRO graphics have actually held up pretty well over the years. The character detail levels not so much, but in so far as the environments and atmosphere, that game still does very well for over 10 years old.
In fact, this video does a good job at showing exactly that:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cid7dNHgoBshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zzvDo6ZZso
......I don't think you understand the context.
It's not a valuation of what's offered depending on what's available at X time of release
it's the actual depth, layers and assets for Elder Scrolls Online is a lot more detailed than those other examples being discussed.
People keep saying odd things like OH and that game had cloaks....well so did ESO in closed beta in addition to a lot of other features that either existed at launched or that were changed during beta testing.
The reality is the game is far more detailed so let's understand that WoW released in 2004....years later they made changes to offer different tiers of armor which were actually the same design with minor color and a touch here and there....so Wrath of the Litch King really displayed this but what we learned is the game was very simplistic. It even took
More time for transmog to be added. So almost 7-8 years total to let ppl copy existing artwork to visually cover another.
LoTRO was largely a very close copy of WoW but at a later date so their designs were better and they incorporated features that WoW was developing.
The more unique artwork you offer, the more time it takes to redo everything.
By comparison ESO has more items to redo and the detail of each is far more than those other games therefore IF they are going to add any more cosmetic features it'll take longer to develop.
It took almost 1 years for armor dye, and another year for costumes. You all are asking them to redo every medium, light and heavy piece in every single motif and material tier (some of which never has existed).
It's literally hundreds of thousands of different pieces. It's gonna take time if that's what they plan to work on.
You want them to allow any motif to apply to any armor. That's not even what those other games offered. ESO is far more customizedEdited by NewBlacksmurf on June 8, 2017 5:30PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Gothlander✭✭✭✭
I blame the general consoleification of games.Gothlander wrote: »Why do very old mmorpg's have a better wardrobe system than ESO?
The user interfaces are being dumbed-down and "simplified" ever since consoles were able to run AAA titles.
At this rate, we'll all be watching game movies in 15 years where you can click the "like" button every few minutes.
I agree with everything you said there. But the dumbed down ui shouldn't have an affect on the wardrobe system.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
TESO needs a wardrobe system badly. Something similar to WoW's tmog system would make this game one of the best mmorpg out there!0 -
Wicked_Wolf✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Not the graphic and quality of those games tho...to be fair ESOs details and quality on high end settings blow all of those away.
Being fair are we askingfor too much too soon?
Well the LotRO one was uploaded in 2011, 3 years before ESO was even released. ESO frankly better have nicer graphics than a game that was released in 2007.
LotRO graphics have actually held up pretty well over the years. The character detail levels not so much, but in so far as the environments and atmosphere, that game still does very well for over 10 years old.
In fact, this video does a good job at showing exactly that:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cid7dNHgoBshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zzvDo6ZZso
......I don't think you understand the context.
It's not a valuation of what's offered depending on what's available at X time of release
it's the actual depth, layers and assets for Elder Scrolls Online is a lot more detailed than those other examples being discussed.
People keep saying odd things like OH and that game had cloaks....well so did ESO in closed beta in addition to a lot of other features that either existed at launched or that were changed during beta testing.
The reality is the game is far more detailed so let's understand that WoW released in 2004....years later they made changes to offer different tiers of armor which were actually the same design with minor color and a touch here and there....so Wrath of the Litch King really displayed this but what we learned is the game was very simplistic. It even took
More time for transmog to be added. So almost 7-8 years total to let ppl copy existing artwork to visually cover another.
LoTRO was largely a very close copy of WoW but at a later date so their designs were better and they incorporated features that WoW was developing.
The more unique artwork you offer, the more time it takes to redo everything.
By comparison ESO has more items to redo and the detail of each is far more than those other games therefore IF they are going to add any more cosmetic features it'll take longer to develop.
It took almost 1 years for armor dye, and another year for costumes. You all are asking them to redo every medium, light and heavy piece in every single motif and material tier (some of which never has existed).
It's literally hundreds of thousands of different pieces. It's gonna take time if that's what they plan to work on.
You want them to allow any motif to apply to any armor. That's not even what those other games offered. ESO is far more customized
My cloaks comment was in reference to the game's graphical quality and it's age. Cloaks were removed from ESO because of permance impact. My point was that Lotro should get more credit than it was in the comment above since it not only looks great, but has cloaks despite the performance hog it can be.
Regarding timing; my argument is that they should have included. Wardrobe and/or transmog from the beginning. It should have been developed with it in mind because yes, it's probably a pain in the ass to put in now.
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