To ZoS Lawsuit class action contract breach and infringment warning.

Malpherian · June 2017

NOTE: I have no intention of sueing ZoS this is merely to point out to them that they are obviously in breach of contract and why.

ZoS as a law student I seriously encourage you to reconsider your move here concerning ESO+ members and access to Morrowind.

Here in my opinion from a legal perspective is why:

Under the definition of your terms and agreements of content as defined by your subscription. You legally agree to provide all additional content of ESO and any associated products to the subscriber for free.

Mororrowind is considered by legal definition to be ESO content as it is not a "Stand a lone" game and Requires ESO to play. This being the case it is by law and your contract considered to be "additional content" To ESO regardless of it's title of expansion. Rather then DLC.

By such you are required by your own contract to allow ESO subscribers access to said content for free so long as they are and maintain their subscription.

Had Morrowind been a stand alone title not requireing ESO in order to play this would not apply as it would not be considered additional content.

In addition DLC by lawful definition is any content associated with a title or ip which can be "downloaded" which contains "content" associated with said title or ip. Regardless of your semantical attempt to rename it an expansion it is still attached to the ESO ip and there for contractually you are legally bound to provide said service as DLC with all associated attachments and perks to subscribers.

Failing to do so is clear breach of contract and infringment. A class action lawsuits if filed, will require you to refund every subscribtion you have ever charged bankrupting your company, if one is filed.

I advise you fix this post haste.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2017

Huh.

Rhoric · June 2017

It is an expansion so get over it. It is not a DLC in terms for the ESO+ membership as there are physical copies. There are no physical copies for the DLCs hence why they are DLCs. Therefore everyone has to pay for it.

MrSaxon · June 2017

Step aside Saul Goodman, Malpherian is on the case!

Turelus · June 2017

Might want to finish the semester before you take on the Zenimax Media big boys.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

NOTE: I have no intention of sueing ZoS this is merely to point out to them that they are obviously in breach of contract and why.

ZoS as a not lawyer student

Yeah...stopped right about here...

Mororrowind is considered by legal definition to be ESO content as it is not a "Stand a lone" game and Requires ESO to play.

Actually, it doesn't...because they provide access to the base game with full purchase of Morrowind.

So:

Full Morrowind comes with ESO
ESO does not come with full Morrowind.
If you really want to get down to brass tacks, you could play the game and never leave Morrowind, thus never accessing the base game, essentially not requiring ESO at all...

Might want to study up on those technicalities a bit more. I hear they're kind of important.

So, do I get to be a not lawyer too?

EDIT: And because I'm in a mood...

A class action lawsuits if filed, will require you to refund every subscribtion you have ever charged bankrupting your company, if one is filed.

Objection: Redundancy

Malpherian · June 2017

I'm sure there's a corporate loophole somewhere. But I'm also sure ZoS has ticked off enough people enough times with these antics that something this obvious and brash might actually be the anvil that breaks the camel's back.

I mean we're not talking about some mudcrab which was promised as exclusive being resold or regiven. "Founders I'm talking to you", this is obvious and clear cut and dry breach of contract.

If the courts we're to rule any other way it would open the floodgates and make contracts with any digital media game Industry or provider pointless, as the service provider would then be legally allowed to change their Contract at a whim without notifying the consumer, to say and do whatever they like. Essentially taking away all rights as a consumer.

Like say changing the subscription from 14.99 to 140.99 overnight. A contract is a Contract for a reason and can not be changed without explicit consent by said consumer.

While yes that accept button you click will protect them in most cases. Their are lines as a US based company which Consumer law will not allow them to cross.

Turelus · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

I'm sure there's a corporate loophole somewhere. But I'm also sure ZoS has ticked off enough people enough times with these antics that something this obvious and brash might actually be the anvil that breaks the camel's back.

I mean we're not talking about some mudcrab which was promised as exclusive being resold or regiven. "Founders I'm talking to you", this is obvious and clear cut and dry breach of contract.

Well we could ask @DRXHarbinger how his ASA case is going against them.

Rhoric · June 2017

I am a founder here. I say you are completely out to lunch. There is no breach of contract. Thank you, come again.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

I'm sure there's a corporate loophole somewhere. But I'm also sure ZoS has ticked off enough people enough times with these antics that something this obvious and brash might actually be the anvil that breaks the camel's back.

I mean we're not talking about some mudcrab which was promised as exclusive being resold or regiven. "Founders I'm talking to you", this is obvious and clear cut and dry breach of contract.

I would imagine it is the TOS that would be a problem. The thing you agree to that says ZOS can change the contract whenever they want and you can't do anything about it.

idk · June 2017

IBC. I seriously doubt Zos is going to permit talk about lawsuits in their own forums. Any arm chair legal analyst should understand.

Further, by law, Zos is permitted to change their business model at any time without notice based on the legally binding agreement we all digitally signed. Digital signatures are very much legally binding. The "legal" argument OP attempts to put forward is very frail at best.

I would be interested to see where in the contract OP finds any clause to support his statement. It is interesting he/she did not quote any aspect of the agreement in the post.

I think the previous poster has a great point. Might want to finish your first semester of law school.

LukosCreyden · June 2017

Every thread that starts with "as a law student, I..." should just be auto-locked.

Rhoric · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

IBC. I seriously doubt Zos is going to permit talk about lawsuits in their own forums. Any arm chair legal analyst should understand.

It's ok, let him talk as I know the topic has already been reported.

faerigirl · June 2017

Thanks for the interesting read.

Question 1: Do you think that ZoS has their own team of attorneys? Yes or No?

Question 2: Do you think their attorneys advised them before content was released? Yes or No?

Morgul667 · June 2017

I think they reviewed this with their lawyers thousand of times already, before Morrowind launch.

There should not be such a breach

Balsagna · June 2017

its a lot cheaper to just buy the expansion than sue someone.

And seriously, can we fast forward a month so I don't have to read 3-4 posts a day by people shocked they aren't able to play morrowind with their eso account? Like zos pulled a fast one on them or something.

Pay the $40 or don't. The choice is yours. If you like the game then support it, and if you don't then who cares. I've never seen so much complaining about an insignificant quantity of money in my life, and I'm poor.

Rhoric · June 2017

Balsagna wrote: »

its a lot cheaper to just buy the expansion than sue someone.

And seriously, can we fast forward a month so I don't have to read 3-4 posts a day by people shocked they aren't able to play morrowind with their eso account? Like zos pulled a fast one on them or something.

Pay the $40 or don't. The choice is yours. If you like the game then support it, and if you don't then who cares. I've never seen so much complaining about an insignificant quantity of money in my life, and I'm poor.

I know how you feel. I have to wait till like the end of the month as the security company I worked for closed but got on at the hotel we did doing the same job but my first full pay is end of month.

BloodWolfe · June 2017

You self-entitled console kiddies have obviously never played an MMO before or know how they work and you are all starting to get very annoying with this crying! Their is no breach on ZOS' part... all MMO's have expansions that cost money so get over it!

Just a few quick points cuz I can't be bothered to go over it all but to start, all new races and/or classes coming to MMO's always come in with expansions that cost (so this is not some P2W like some seem to think); it has physical copies so it's NOT DLC like some of you try to argue; it's larger than DLC (as a rule and maybe this wasn't as large as typical expansions but it's still more than DLC content overall).

GET OVER IT! You don't like it then leave!

I'm not a big defender of ZOS, I don't care for the crown store and the prices lately on a lot of things. 4000 crown mounts limited for a short time is ridiculous and I refuse to support that. Mundus Stones for housing as crown only and again at 4000 crowns is beyond ludicrous! The whole housing update and system seriously sucks and is lacking a lot of features from older MMO's with far better housing systems (DAoC, EQ2, Rift, and I know I'm missing a couple more).

Anyway though, stop crying about Morrowind that it should be free with ESO+. It's an expansion/chapter, not DLC and the ESO+ is a good deal anyway. The price alone you get the equivalent value of crowns so all the extras is just gravy so stop thinking everything should be free FFS! Self-entitled console brats!

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2017

As a law student you should understand that suing a large company over $100 is a waste of time.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

If the courts we're to rule any other way

Objection: Grammar

Study more, please. Practice less.

Turelus · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

Like say changing the subscription from 14.99 to 140.99 overnight. A contract is a Contract for a reason and can not be changed without explicit consent by said consumer. .

Well they can, they just give you 30 days notice to cancel the sub.

ZeniMax reserves the right to change the fees or billing methods at any time upon notice to You through Your Account. If You pay a periodic (e.g., monthly) subscription or membership fee for a Service, ZeniMax will provide You with at least thirty (30) days advance notice of any such changes. Your continued use of the Service thirty (30) days or more after ZeniMax provides such notice of the changes means that You accept such changes. If any change is unacceptable to You, You may cancel Your subscription or membership at any time with such termination being effective at the end of the then-current subscription or membership period for which You previously paid, but ZeniMax will not refund any fees or prorate fees for any subscription or membership except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1)..

You did actually read the entire of their legal documents in full right?

Edit: Placed the full quote in there for better clarification.

Hippie4927 · June 2017

When I subscribed to ESO+, it said that I would have access to "all DLC Game Packs available in the crown store". Morrowind is not a DLC and is not available in the crown store. So I see no breach.

reiverx · June 2017

The problem is that games companies are not in the public eye. This has made it easy for these companies to say one thing and do another. They can change the rules at a whim and face it, nobody outside of the gaming world gives a F.

Anything that is in the TOS can be challenged. Anything they do can be challenged. Legally.

But again, nobody really cares. This isn't software that runs a life-support system.

It's unfortunate because the lack of regulation has made the games industry a viper's nest where predatory practices are now the norm.

If you want to do something about it, write to the real lawmakers and not a forum run by the company you are criticizing.

Malpherian · June 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

NOTE: I have no intention of sueing ZoS this is merely to point out to them that they are obviously in breach of contract and why.

ZoS as a not lawyer student

Yeah...stopped right about here...

Mororrowind is considered by legal definition to be ESO content as it is not a "Stand a lone" game and Requires ESO to play.

Actually, it doesn't...because they provide access to the base game with full purchase of Morrowind.

So:
Full Morrowind comes with ESO

ESO does not come with full Morrowind.

If you really want to get down to brass tacks, you could play the game and never leave Morrowind, thus never accessing the base game, essentially not requiring ESO at all...

Might want to study up on those technicalities a bit more. I hear they're kind of important.

So, do I get to be a not lawyer too?

EDIT: And because I'm in a mood...

A class action lawsuits if filed, will require you to refund every subscribtion you have ever charged bankrupting your company, if one is filed.

Objection: Redundancy

It doesn't matter of you can play it or not by choice. It is still part of the ESO IP And since it is attached to the hip requiring the base game to "function". ZoS is contractually obligated to do such.

Again if Morrowind did not require the original game to play this would not be the case. But it does. So it is.

idk · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

Like say changing the subscription from 14.99 to 140.99 overnight. A contract is a Contract for a reason and can not be changed without explicit consent by said consumer.

Two things are clear.

1. you have not read the ToS.
2. Your time in law school is questionable, at least time spent awake and alert.

Malpherian · June 2017

Personally I don't care what they do I'll be buying the expansion later. I'm just pointing out that zos is getting more brash in their violations. And they may want to rethink it before they cross a line they can't erase.

Rhoric · June 2017

Let me spell it out for you.

IT IS AN E.X.P.A.N.S.I.O.N.

vamp_emily · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

Failing to do so is clear breach of contract and infringment. A class action lawsuits if filed, will require you to refund every subscribtion you have ever charged bankrupting your company, if one is filed.

I advise you fix this post haste.

lol, I don't think a lawsuit will bankrupt the company. If for some reason they were guilty of the aforementioned charge they would settle in court and just pay a small portion of the fine to satisfy the courts.

However, I often wonder if theses MMOs are breaking any laws.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

Malpherian wrote: »

It doesn't matter of you can play it or not by choice. It is still part of the ESO IP And since it is attached to the hip requiring the base game to "function". ZoS is contractually obligated to do such.

Again if Morrowind did not require the original game to play this would not be the case. But it does. So it is.

Why? Because it shares an API?

I suspect you'll find lots of code reused among major software developers, so unless they intend to sue themselves, you can offer no such proof.

Again, you could remain in Morrowind, with same functionality, and never technically require the base game.

SantieClaws · June 2017

Lawyers. Those are a bit like the town guards yes?

*slips away into the shadows for no reason at all*

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

kynseon · June 2017

It would be a BUFF if you read the ToS better. Sit Down and Enjoy Morrowind.