Lore Wise, what is the strongest Alliance?

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2015

I disagree with the notion that the Bretons are weak politically. Additionally, the perception of the Altmer by the other races is a big reason why they won't be accepted. Don't get me wrong I enjoy playing for the AD faction, but there are good reasons for the Alessian reforms, and those reforms are not lost on the collective memories of everyone in Tamriel. I think that in and of itself is a big loss for the Dominion politically. I do think that the Dominion does unite well though at the right moments, but their unity is hardly perfect.

With regard to well timed assassinations of Emeric's wife or King Fahara'jad, I would expect the Black Sap rebellion and the Veiled Heritance represent equal dangers on a continued basis, even as much as the difference between Forebears and Crowns. Well timed assassinations are a threat to any of these Kingdoms. The fact that the Breton King is married to the daughter of the Redguard King serves only to create a stronger unity that the Bosmer and Altmer do not have. I'm going to say again that I'm not so sure the Altmer are better in that regard. I really think the only strength that the Altmer have on most of the races in TES is the rare few and extremely powerful mages that come from the Summerset Isles. Even then, there are other great mages of note that came from other races (Such as Shalidor, a Nord/Atmoran).

At the end of the day, I agree with the notion that it is the Imperials that will turn the tide of things.

Teiji · March 2015

The Akaviri conglomerate.

Danikat · March 2015

Mikoto wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Also, I could be remembering this wrong, but I seem to recall that Morrowind was the last province Tiber Septum took. Even after the supposedly impossible to invade Black Marsh.

actually morrowind was the first mer province to be taken, though no fights ever took place, as vivec and talos made a deal, let morrowind maintain its traditions and slavery, and they would not only join the empire but handed over the numidum as well. talos accepted.

summerset was the last province to be taken, taken by force, and then only taken because they used the numidium.

and I think deals were also made with black marsh and no fights took place.

Aye, Summerset was the last to be taken because Tiber cheated, and the Altmer refused to back down, as they always do.

Panda244 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Also, I could be remembering this wrong, but I seem to recall that Morrowind was the last province Tiber Septum took. Even after the supposedly impossible to invade Black Marsh.

actually morrowind was the first mer province to be taken, though no fights ever took place, as vivec and talos made a deal, let morrowind maintain its traditions and slavery, and they would not only join the empire but handed over the numidum as well. talos accepted.

summerset was the last province to be taken, taken by force, and then only taken because they used the numidium.

and I think deals were also made with black marsh and no fights took place.

Aye, Summerset was the last to be taken because Tiber cheated, and the Altmer refused to back down, as they always do.

No such thing as cheating in war. Either you win or you die.

Exactly. "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." No idea who said it but it's one of my favourite quotes and very relevant here.

As other people have said ultimately we're all just killing time until Tiber Septim shows up and, one way or another, unifies Tamriel into the 3rd era empire. I suppose in that sense you could argue that the Daggerfall Covenant (if he's a Breton) or the Ebonheart Pact (if he's a Nord) wins. But I think most people (from the 3rd era onwards) think of him primarily as an Imperial.

But none of the alliances fighting this war actually win, it's a whole new faction that conquers them all.

And if you want to take a really long-term approach (aka skip ahead to Skyrim) even that doesn't last forever. It too falls apart and something else will take it's place. Assuming of course that a 6th game gets made.

Cody · March 2015

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Well:
Aldmeri Dominion is the only one that will survive the test of time (it exists f.e. in Skyrim)
Ebonheart Pact however gave us Talos.

Talos>Thalmor *** anytiem.

@WhiskyBob Talos is a Breton. I know, I know. I ruined your life. But it's true.

Raised in Skyrim tho. As for race he might be: Breton or Atmoran or Nord depends on who are you asking but it doesnt matter. He was raised among Nords.

lore question; what do the nords and the bretons actually think of each other? I have always been curious.

starkerealm · March 2015

Cody wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Well:
Aldmeri Dominion is the only one that will survive the test of time (it exists f.e. in Skyrim)
Ebonheart Pact however gave us Talos.

Talos>Thalmor *** anytiem.

@WhiskyBob Talos is a Breton. I know, I know. I ruined your life. But it's true.

Raised in Skyrim tho. As for race he might be: Breton or Atmoran or Nord depends on who are you asking but it doesnt matter. He was raised among Nords.

lore question; what do the nords and the bretons actually think of each other? I have always been curious.

It depends on exactly who and where you're talking about. IIRC, generally speaking, Bretons view Nords as uncultured louts. With Nords viewing Bretons (and most non-Nords) as weak. But it's not as pronounced as most of the setting's enmity. That said, the Nords are pretty quick to find fault with the Breton's elven ancestry... so there's that.

Politically The Reach is a sore spot, because of mixed Breton and Nord habitation. During Third Era that wasn't terribly pronounced, but by the Fourth its what led to the Forsworn in TES5.

But, that's in broad strokes.

Aeratus · March 2015

Cody wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Well:
Aldmeri Dominion is the only one that will survive the test of time (it exists f.e. in Skyrim)
Ebonheart Pact however gave us Talos.

Talos>Thalmor *** anytiem.

@WhiskyBob Talos is a Breton. I know, I know. I ruined your life. But it's true.

Raised in Skyrim tho. As for race he might be: Breton or Atmoran or Nord depends on who are you asking but it doesnt matter. He was raised among Nords.

lore question; what do the nords and the bretons actually think of each other? I have always been curious.

Depends on the type of Breton of course. Bretons range from very primitive (such as the Reachmen, whose society is far less developed than the Nords) to fairly sophisticated (Daggerfall city-states). In general, the Nords and the civilized Bretons have not interacted with each other that much because their border is populated by Reachmen and Orcs.

Enodoc · March 2015

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

Hard to answer with any certainty. Most HATED though? Easy. Aldmeri Dominion.

I think only the 4th Era Dominion is really hated. The 2nd Era Dominion has a lot less to hate.
(What I personally hate is that they pulled the name Thalmor out of the 4th Era Dominion and gave it to the 2nd Era Dominion. Couldn't they have come up with a new name for the leading faction of the 2nd Era Dominion?)

Dekkameron · March 2015

I think the Altmer have always been slightly misunderstood as they're always shown playing some mysterious naughty role in events.

Sure they might act a bit snooty, but can you blame them? They're the true children of Auri-El (alongside our Bosmer friends) and the scummy humans are the spawn of the foul treacherous Lorkhan

Anvos · March 2015

Or join team dunmer where your both aetherial and touched by the power of Lorkahn.

Rylana · March 2015

The First Admeri Dominion ultimately "wins" the war, but then dissolves amid chaos leading to the rise of the next Empire..

Do they really win then? That I cannot answer, but from a lore perspective they are by far the most united alliance in this iteration.

Interestingly enough the Third Aldmeri Dominion a thousand years later pits the Altmer vs the Khajiit. Irony, no?

Fruity_Ninja · March 2015

Without a doubt the winners of the war will be the Imperials. Afterall they will create a grand, beautiful Empire again.

As much as the Dominion would like to think they are a powerhouse, their power is usually a fleeting rise followed by submission to a greater power ruled by man. Such is the life of the Elven races.

The biggest losers of course will be the Argonians, whom will go back to being the slaves that they were.

Dekkameron · March 2015

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

The biggest losers of course will be the Argonians, whom will go back to being the slaves that they were.

Even more so than the Dunmer? They get their entire civilization taken away in the 4th era.

Fruity_Ninja · March 2015

Dekkameron wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

The biggest losers of course will be the Argonians, whom will go back to being the slaves that they were.

Even more so than the Dunmer? They get their entire civilization taken away in the 4th era.

That's not really coming out of this war though. But in the end I guess that is true, it is a a great pain that Dunmeri society will end up going through after the deception of their 'Gods'.

Anvos · March 2015

Actually what happens to the dunmer has more to do with imperial attempts to destroy other cultures, Hlalluu going the route of the sell out, and lack of Tribunal causing a meteor to fall which starts Volcanic activity, though the expansion in Skyrim hints that Redoran has been turning things back around on the main land of Morrowind at least.

Fruity_Ninja · March 2015

Anvos wrote: »

Actually what happens to the dunmer has more to do with imperial attempts to destroy other cultures, Hlalluu going the route of the sell out, and lack of Tribunal causing a meteor to fall which starts Volcanic activity, though the expansion in Skyrim hints that Redoran has been turning things back around on the main land of Morrowind at least.

So in a nutshell the Dunmer will enslave the lizards again? It's just a matter of time?

AngryNord · March 2015

Ebonheart Pact. Because Nords. Du'h.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2015

Daggerfall Covenent.

Why? Tiber Septim.

Talos was born in the Kingdom of Alciare in High Rock. His birth name was Hjalti Early-Beard. This is not only confirmed in the Arcturian Heresey, but stay in Tiber Septim's room in that Inn in Skyrim at Old Hroldren, and the Ghost of Talos's best friend appears their calling you "Hjalti" which confirms the PC in the game is a reincarnation of Talos pretty much. Since this confirms Talo's Birth name, this confirms his birthplace as High Rock, as Nord's later bowed and swore loyalty to him after their defeat at Sancre Tor, thus the Nord's adopted him as their own due to his use of Storm Voice also known as "The Voice".

Talos birthplace is further confirmed by the Ghost of Old Hroldran as he says:

"It's been an honor to serve you, brother. Remembers our lessons from the sword masters of Alcaire? Let me show you a few things you may have forgotten before we leave Hroldan."

This confirms the account of the Arcturian Hersey as Talos grew up in High Rock and did indeed learn his swordplay from the masters of Alcaire

So pretty much Talos assembles whats left of a defeated and demoralized Daggerfall Covenent, teams up with Cuhlecain, and defeats whats left of the Ebonheart Pact and the Dominion forming the 3rd era Septim dynasty.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Sancre_Tor

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ghost_of_Old_Hroldan

Aeratus · March 2015

Tiber Septim was 300 years later. All of the 3 alliances would have been irrelevant and forgotten by then. If 300 years is understood in real life terms, that's more than the time the United States has existed as an independent country. Tiber Septim is irrelevant. Moreover, he represents the Imperials, not Daggerfall Covenant. The Daggerfall Covenant did not exist at the time of Tiber Septim.

bellanca6561n · March 2015

I'd like to break some lore over people's heads.

An earlier, single player game is not a fact. Stories made up for games are not historical works.

But in this game, the only one that counts because it's the only online version and, thus, an actual shared human experience in real time, the Pact has proven most appealing.

It has the most sophisticated story line and attracts the cream of the roleplayers as well as many of the best game players.

The Covenant suffers from comic book villains and the least interesting race, the Bretons.

The Dominion features the most beautiful zone in the game, Auridon, and the most appealing NPC in Razum-Dar.

What's difficult to get past is the atrocious story line decision in the history of the MMO: the Hatching Pools and Ruuvitar. This also featured deceased Argonian test subjects with numbers tattooed on them, as well as a denial of transfer order from a horrified Dominion soldier.

Whoever thought that bringing Joseph Mengele into even the darkest game story needs to be rewarded with an all expenses paid trip to Auschwitz. However it's just as likely that the authors knew very well what they were doing. In either case it was a bad call. That is not a subject for an entertainment product.

Lokryn · March 2015

Don't forget that the races of the Ebonheart Pact were just recently dealing with a nasty Akaviri invasion. In fact, they were formed because of the second Akaviri invasion. I'd say their military prowess is the best but politically they are fragile.

BBSooner · March 2015

Lokryn wrote: »

Don't forget that the races of the Ebonheart Pact were just recently dealing with a nasty Akaviri invasion. In fact, they were formed because of the second Akaviri invasion. I'd say their military prowess is the best but politically they are fragile.

I wouldn't say fragile, I would say they are the only alliance who is absolutely aware of their situation.

They know they dont like each other.
They know they want to remain independent provinces.
They know who their real enemies are.
They know that working together they can accomplish great things.

There is no delusion of ...

Emericks paraphrased speech to DC - "We know you Redguards invaded this land and set up camp because you could and we know you Orsimer get raided and slaughtered routinely by both Bretons and Redguards .. but hey ... what about commerce ".

Ayrenns paraphrased speech to AD -"Hey guys, I know we Altmer can be racist (and pretty Xenophobic and isolationist on our Island), but I'm not super racist ... I just think a Mer should rule because the other races are too childish and stupid to do it. You other races aren't so bad, you just can't rule, because of the above reasoning. See, not so bad. "

EPs alliance of convenience is an alliance aware of its situation, an alliance who realizes they're fighting is for the freedom of their home, and since they have an actual reason to fight I would say they are far more dangerous than anything the other races can muster.

jmruiz96 · June 2017

Good stuff! Spent forever trying to find this, is there anywhere out there that has a good amount of alliance lore?

MythicEmperor · June 2017

House Telvanni, of course! We have an illustrious alliance of *true* Dunmer across eastern Morrowind. Not those N'wah-loving westerners....

BigBadVolk · June 2017

And everyone forget the the Daedra literally shitted their pants when they met the Argonians during the Oblivion Crisis (I know it will happen later but still..)

Also the three alliances are equal in every way. All races are good at smth (altmer and dunmer are the strongest mages etc Vanus, Divayth and so on) Nords, orcs and khajitt are good brute forces.
Also all three alliances probably end not long each other because it was said that this AD is the First AD and the one Tiber Septim conquears is the second AD and the one in Skyrim is the Third AD.

Also storywise atm DC is kinda questianable (sorry english is not my main language +tired) after the events of Orsinium but probably the Orcs will stay with DC for gameplay wise.

Waffennacht · June 2017

You can't really argue with a race of beings created by the great void to destroy all of existence.

Just sayin

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2017

Im a staunch EP loyalist and only fight for them in Cyrodiil. But I would say lore wise. The Daggerfall Covenant is probably the strongest.

The AD is too young and still very much at odds with each other for them to really be the strongest. The Veiled Heritance and the corruption of the Mane are signs that the AD are teetering on collapse. This isnt to say theyll always be this way or wont eventually rise to be as formidable as the other two alliances. But theyre still consolidating power as of 2E 582.

The EP while strong and has lasted at least a decade are simply one very big misunderstanding away from collapse. A decade can not bury millenias worth of slavery and mistreatment. And while so far we've seen many Argonians take to the EP banner...I fear most of that is out of not knowing what else to do with themselves as theyre simply freed-slaves with a bit of a stockholm syndrome. Where are these Argonians to go? Many were born into slavery and no nothing beyond Dunmer society. If it wasnt for this the EP probably wouldnt have much of a leg to stand on in Cyrodiil. Theyd be a smaller force and unable to reach out as far as Imperial City.

The DC on the other hand has been around for some 30-40 years. And most of the DC member states are all former allies. Daggerfall, Camlorn, Shornhelm and Wayrest have all stood together on numerous issues in the past. And the Redguards have a long standing history with these High Rock City-States as well. They have often allied with each other and marched into Wrothgar to deal with the Orcish menace. Its also revealed in the Orsinium storyline that the vast majority of Orc clans native to the High Rock region are not allied with or loyal to the Daggerfall Covenant Banner. And that while Kurog claims to be King of the Orcs and speaks for them. The truth of that is far more complicated. Whats apparent by that storyline is that the Orcs needed the DC more than the DC needed them. Even without the Orcs the DC could still throw its weight around.

The DC is rich with trade and resources. Has a strong and well-established army (including Knightly-Orders). Between the three alliances. DC has the strongest and most well-established powerbase.

Uncle_Sweetshare · June 2017

BBSooner wrote: »

EPs alliance of convenience is an alliance aware of its situation, an alliance who realizes they're fighting is for the freedom of their home, and since they have an actual reason to fight I would say they are far more dangerous than anything the other races can muster.

As the saying goes "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

And let's be honest, the Pact would absolutely wipe the floor with the Covenant and Dominion if it came to an all out battle.

Drachenfier · June 2017

Having played all three factions in the game as it currently stands, I'd go with Ebonheart Pact being the strongest faction military wise, but with the weakest cohesion of all the alliances. Dunmer and Nord seem to me to be the two races you'd want in your army if you were fighting a land war, and they're both on the same side.

ShedsHisTail · June 2017

Gotta be Dominion... Not only are they powerful enough to legitimately challenge the Empire, but they're the only one to have one or more resurgences and recurring appearances in the Tamrielic timeline.

In the larger time line of Tamriel, the Dominion is the Empire's primary foil. They are the other side of the Man/Mer coin power wise. Like, if there were an elven Empire, it'd be the Dominion.

Onefrkncrzypope · June 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Daggerfall Covenent.

Why? Tiber Septim.

Talos was born in the Kingdom of Alciare in High Rock. His birth name was Hjalti Early-Beard. This is not only confirmed in the Arcturian Heresey, but stay in Tiber Septim's room in that Inn in Skyrim at Old Hroldren, and the Ghost of Talos's best friend appears their calling you "Hjalti" which confirms the PC in the game is a reincarnation of Talos pretty much. Since this confirms Talo's Birth name, this confirms his birthplace as High Rock, as Nord's later bowed and swore loyalty to him after their defeat at Sancre Tor, thus the Nord's adopted him as their own due to his use of Storm Voice also known as "The Voice".

Talos birthplace is further confirmed by the Ghost of Old Hroldran as he says:

"It's been an honor to serve you, brother. Remembers our lessons from the sword masters of Alcaire? Let me show you a few things you may have forgotten before we leave Hroldan."

This confirms the account of the Arcturian Hersey as Talos grew up in High Rock and did indeed learn his swordplay from the masters of Alcaire

So pretty much Talos assembles whats left of a defeated and demoralized Daggerfall Covenent, teams up with Cuhlecain, and defeats whats left of the Ebonheart Pact and the Dominion forming the 3rd era Septim dynasty.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Sancre_Tor

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ghost_of_Old_Hroldan

He was born in alciare. That doesn't decide race in ESO. Hjalti early bearded isn't a Breton name. That nomiclature is most familiar in Nord society.