PSA: Scammers Stalking Guild Stores, I lost 400k.

Inarre · June 2017

Your guild pays the fees for the guild trader. Dont cut them out of their measley slice of the pie.

AdicusDio · June 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Had one of my friends/guildmates contacted by someone in game saying they wanted to buy the item they had listed in a guild store at a higher price than was listed but didn't want the 10% to go to the guild. That immediately raised a red flag. If someone offers to buy and item from you that you have listed in the store at a higher price than you listed it, either turn them down or send it to them via in-game mail with COD. Easiest way to not get scammed. They can't claim the item from the mail unless they send the gold.

Cash on delivery is a bad idea. ONLY use that with trusted friends. I think the mail can sit for up to 30 days before auto-returning (unless it's been shortened?). Regardless, you send me something, I don't have the cash or change my mind, it'll sit in limbo for awhile.

AdicusDio · June 2017

Thank you for the heads up. The fact he canceled after you added the item; it's a coin-toss to see if you are going to just spam the button quickly, which people get into the habit of doing in Undaunted dungeons, for example.

Stinks you lost a high-value item. I'd just sell it in the guild store. Yes you loose a little bit, but so what? Better that than loosing all of it

AzraelKrieg · June 2017

AdicusDio wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Had one of my friends/guildmates contacted by someone in game saying they wanted to buy the item they had listed in a guild store at a higher price than was listed but didn't want the 10% to go to the guild. That immediately raised a red flag. If someone offers to buy and item from you that you have listed in the store at a higher price than you listed it, either turn them down or send it to them via in-game mail with COD. Easiest way to not get scammed. They can't claim the item from the mail unless they send the gold.

Cash on delivery is a bad idea. ONLY use that with trusted friends. I think the mail can sit for up to 30 days before auto-returning (unless it's been shortened?). Regardless, you send me something, I don't have the cash or change my mind, it'll sit in limbo for awhile.

Better than losing a high price item and not getting gold from it. The auto-return has been shortened.

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Zalicius wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Scamming is part of the game. It is built in to how trading works. It sucks to have it happen to you though.

No, it's not. From another thread:

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Scamming is a violation of the Terms of Service, and we treat any reports of scamming very seriously. To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigations, and all disciplinary actions taken in-game and on the forums are private.

Scammers, and other troublemakers, can be reported in-game and on our help portal. When reporting a player, it’s helpful to have evidence of the exchange and how it fell through, so please send along any documentation you have. Additionally, if you are playing on a console, you can contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

The trading market in ESOTU is a buyer beware market, especially when operating outside the trade window. Please be aware that trading with another player in game is a risk. While most players are upfront and honest, there are some players who have dishonest intentions.

Then OP is in luck.

But I hear that these don't usually work out for the scamee though.

I still want ZOS to turn busted scammers into giant neon targets though.

Draekony · June 2017

ah this trade has been around long since the days of EQ.

StormWylf · June 2017

Draekony wrote: »

ah this trade has been around long since the days of EQ.

Sad but true, however there are many players who are new to MMOs and/or trading, these warnings are a good reminder and helpful to newer players.

Sythen88411 · June 2017

Alanar wrote: »

Here's a warning to the ESO community about a current in-game scam.

I was contacted on two successive days by a player who wanted to buy a high-value item (Attunable Blacksmithing Station) but wanted to trade in person to save the guild store fees. I had one on hand, so I agreed. They then grouped with me, met up, I placed the item in the trade window, they put in the gold, and then I submitted and they canceled. This repeated twice (I thought the trade system was glitching as it has in the past) and then I submitted before they put in the gold and they ran off with the item. They then immediately ignored me so I couldn't whisper them and haven't been heard from since.

I know this sort of cheating has gone on in the past, however this player showed a higher degree of sophistication than most. They specifically targeted me because I had a high-value item listed on a top guild trader (ETU on PC / NA), and they messages me on two consecutive days. If they did this once to me, I can only expect that they will continue to do this to others until their crimes catch up with them. For now, I would recommend never trading with strangers directly, and instead using guild stores for sales to avoid scams.

For ZOS, I have reported this player using the in game system, I hope you address this promptly. In either case, I'll report the results of my support experience here as well.

Happen to me yesterday https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/4199363#Comment_4199363 did you get ur stuff back?

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · June 2017

c0rp wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

The people advocating this are either trolls or unaware how this scam works.
It is a scam, so can the people saying it's OPs fault please stfu.

The scam goes like:
- Step 1: Both parties place their item in the trade box (non submitted)
- Step 2: The scammer hits submit (his gold is now submitted)
- Step 3: You hit submit
- Step 4: Despite his gold being submitted you recieve no gold

This is a scam. There's a way for him to move remove his gold and still recieve the item without giving you a chance to react.

As others said unless you trust them; Always trade in COD.

That is not how it happens it all. The OP stated how it happened. He clicked submit when his item was submitted and no gold had been presented on the other end after a few "failed attempts". This has been going on for decades in these types of games. New gens see this as a scam. Most old school gamers would see this as "You should have been more careful with what you were doing".

Yes it is, I've seen it first hand. The scam works exactly how I said.
OPs was different but the scam I speak of is for real.

What I've commented is a genuine bug/fault in place which scammers know how to exploit.

To repeat scam:
- Step 1: Both parties place their item in the trade box (non submitted)
- Step 2: The scammer hits submit (his gold is now submitted)
- Step 3: You hit submit
- Step 4: Despite his (scammer) gold being submitted you recieve no gold
- Step 5: Scammer has gold and item.

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

LadyLavina wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

lol logic does not compute. this could still easily happen in a system like that

Doesn't happen in WoW at all mostly cause people just buy from the AH and don't bother whispering anyone

DaveMoeDee · June 2017

Molec wrote: »

Toxic community

Every large community has toxic individuals.

I am surprised someone had multiple attunable crafting stations for sale and hadn't heard of in-person trade scams like that.

Izay · June 2017

That's pretty low of them but it's honestly your fault for not checking the trade before accepting.

Ackwalan · June 2017

This fellow is still at it. I got a whisper from him about wanting to buy an item from the guild store. Thankfully I had already seen this thread and knew his name from guild chat, so he got nothing. Of course he may get a name change now since his name is getting well known.

SteveCampsOut · June 2017

There's a good reason to pay that small fee to your guild. This is that reason. Nothing to see here.

Ep1kMalware · June 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

name and shame....name and shame...name and shame...

name sounds like, rhymes with?

you can only wish for the worse for folks like this...think of the big black hole where there should be a soul...

Yup. zos protects the reputation of scammers and cheaters so that they don't accrue hurt feelings. Yet, these scams go unpunished and ignored. Afaik the only permanant bans ever handed out went to the most elite raid group because a 3rd party thought something was racist despite no dialogue have happened. This was when morrowind pts dropped and zenimax said they'd lower the ceiling. (By removing the top players)

All I can tell you is, stop thinking zenimax is on your side.

Ep1kMalware · June 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

It's actually possible to retrieve your things really quickly right before the trade goes through. It's impossible to notice and impossible to prevent. I've seen a friend do that so he just screws around with it giving people extra stuff instead, but it's very possible to scam people with that too. Person to person trading seems unreliable.

Not what happened to the OP but saying it's his fault? Lol. So he assumed the guy was honest and the system buggy(which it often is), yeah what an idiot. Geez. Hope the person in question gets banned, sorry it happened OP.

It is his fault. The trade system didn't submit it for him. The scammer clearly tried to rush the trade so the op wouldnt be paying attention. OP still got scamed, but the situation is that OP literally opened the trade, added his item, and rushed to the submit button before the gold was added. A decision he now regrets, but a decision that was made soley on his part without any exogenous interference or exploitive actions by another on the games software. The trade is legitimate, and can only serve as a warning to others about the negative consequences of giving away free items by mistakenly not paying attention.

This is no different than deconstructing items and calling zos a scammer because you didn't pay attention or lock the item.

RIP op

Ep1kMalware · June 2017

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

This is a very old scamming technique used in many games with trade windows like ours. I'm glad you put a PSA out for this, because while a good portion of the playerbase is wary of this activity, I'm starting to realize more and more newer players are ignorant to these techniques.

That being said, I'm one of those people who will contact a guild store merchant if I have a counter offer, and I prefer to do trades in person as well, to avoid mail issues as a seller.

If someone's acting edgy, or trying to rush you, or constantly ending the trade before it finalizes, chances are good that they're trying to manipulate you.

same. I buy from traders alot, but many in zone chat have better offers or it's just easier to sell items there. Notably alchemy ingredients and upgrade materials. I don't mind cod as it requires little effort on my part, but in an effort to pinch pennies and buy in bulk at low prices I prefer just trading in person.

I've actually had people cod an item to me, but sent no cod amount. Not normally on expensive items, but items where they wanted 10-15k. I've always imediate;y sent them the money we agreed on, but I can't help but to feel based on what I have seen in this game, that many do not safeguard their assets and set themselves up as victims.

The only places in this game I feel entirely safe from scams is endgame raiding guilds. Everyone knows most everyone and if you ever want to clear vmol again you aren't going to scam a guildie over some gear or druegh wax. Everyone is generally respectful, and values being in the guild more than scoring some easy wax. ..that may have even been lent to you if you had asked.

meme22 · June 2017

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Yes this is scamming plain and simple and is just wrong.
I was contacted by a GM of a sister guild of ours a while back. I don't know if this is what happened with the OP, but they told me about a new "Add-On" that allows a player to instantly remove gold at the time of hitting "submit" in person to person trades.
(Perhaps @Lady_Rosabella will comment on it here?)
I never do trade this way any more. I use only guild stores or COD mail.
And, NO! A central auction house will not stop this behavior.
May the Ban Hammer find these scammers and hit them with Perma-Ban!!!
Huzzah!

Yesterday this guy tried to do the same thing to me. He would put up money first and after I put up my items, his gold would turn 0 and hit submit. He did it so fast, if you didn't pay attention you would have hit submit with 0 gold. I knew to watch out for trade scrams from WoW so I took my time making sure everything was correct. We tried to trade like 6 times. Every time he did the same thing. When I told him just buy it from store, he left group so fast and without saying a word.

LadyDestiny · June 2017

Problem herein lies with Zos. They could fix this so it can't happen. It's an issue since release and they have had plenty of time. Don't want to slam, but it's gone on for far too long.....

Beardimus · June 2017

It's a good thing to highlight OP. however the fix is COD mail, ill never trade in person. COD is secure.

I never trust trade mechanics, as surely it works the other way too say I'm buying and a seller asks me to submit gold first there's nothing i can do if he hits submit and pinches the gold right.

So there no sure fire way to protect either party in trade

anitajoneb17_ESO · June 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

This is no different than deconstructing items and calling zos a scammer because you didn't pay attention or lock the item.

Some of you guys are just amazing. I hope life will be more forgiving to you than you are to others ;-)

Let's put some things straight (in my opinion) :

1/ There is a huge difference between mistakenly deconstructing an item and that sort of scam. It lies in the fact that ZOS does not try to trick you into deconstructing valuable stuff.

2/ Even if some part of the responsibility lies in the hand of the victim for "not paying enough attention", it doesn't make the scammer less of a scammer. If I forget to lock my front door one morning, it doesn't mean that I'm offering all my belongings for free to anyone who passes by. If someone enters and steals my stuff, even if he did not have to break in, it doesn't make that person less of a thief.

3/ When it comes to valuable items I always insist on trading face to face in order to avoid the cod fees / taxes. IRL paying taxes makes sense because they're used for public services, but in ESO taxes are no use to anyone, so it makes sense to avoid them.

4/ If there's really an add-on that allows to anticipate the exact moment a person is pressing a key and doing some action right before the effect of said keystroke, then ZOS should look at the API and make it impossible.

Now guys I have some very good news for all of us :

The other day I found a credit card, forgotten in a bank machine. I could have bought half of Amazon. Instead I brought it back to the bank mentioned on the card. I had a short chat with the staff there and they said it happened pretty often (that lost card are recovered by honest people).
I've been trading in this game like forever, with hundreds of people, via the trading windows (or sometimes with simple mail exchange, but without using the cod system) and I've never scammed, never been scammed, never seen any scamming attempt. Just met a bunch of nice pleasant people. Well sometimes they're not nice and not pleasant but still honest :-) )

I'm not saying the real world or ESO are Disney-shaped. But what I'm trying to say is that most people are OK, scammers are a minority, be cautious but not paranoid, and scamming is definitely not part of the game (be it ESO or the real-life-game).

starkerealm · June 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

name and shame....name and shame...name and shame...

name sounds like, rhymes with?

you can only wish for the worse for folks like this...think of the big black hole where there should be a soul...

Yup. zos protects the reputation of scammers and cheaters so that they don't accrue hurt feelings.

Well, I'm going to stop you right there. The reason you're not allowed to name and shame isn't because it might hurt someone's feelings. It's because those same scammers, and other lowlifes, can, and will start campaigns against people.

It's happened in this community. A small cadre of players who were using cheat engine decided to start a witch hunt against someone else in the PvP community, going so far as to fabricate death threats in an effort to turn people against him.

People can, and do, abuse report functions, and try to fabricate stories there as well. In those cases, any claims are investigated by ZOS. In the case of the community we don't have the ability to investigate this. So, when someone comes on here and says, all teary eyed, that Mr-So-And-So is a scammer, we have no way to know if they're telling the truth. And if they can get four or five of their buddies to corroborate their story, that's all it takes to convince most people that, "hey, maybe Mr-So-And-So is scum of the earth," and not, "oh, maybe he refused to leave a public dungeon when they were grinding, and they decided to throw an egregiously disproportionate tantrum in response."

Ihatenightblades · June 2017

Alanar wrote: »

Here's a warning to the ESO community about a current in-game scam.

I was contacted on two successive days by a player who wanted to buy a high-value item (Attunable Blacksmithing Station) but wanted to trade in person to save the guild store fees. I had one on hand, so I agreed. They then grouped with me, met up, I placed the item in the trade window, they put in the gold, and then I submitted and they canceled. This repeated twice (I thought the trade system was glitching as it has in the past) and then I submitted before they put in the gold and they ran off with the item. They then immediately ignored me so I couldn't whisper them and haven't been heard from since.

I know this sort of cheating has gone on in the past, however this player showed a higher degree of sophistication than most. They specifically targeted me because I had a high-value item listed on a top guild trader (ETU on PC / NA), and they messages me on two consecutive days. If they did this once to me, I can only expect that they will continue to do this to others until their crimes catch up with them. For now, I would recommend never trading with strangers directly, and instead using guild stores for sales to avoid scams.

For ZOS, I have reported this player using the in game system, I hope you address this promptly. In either case, I'll report the results of my support experience here as well.

Why would you accept trade before he put his gold down? Rule number one never do that.

I would say its your fault.
The guy who got u is a *** for that but hey what goes around comes around im sure his wicked ways will end up hurting him eventually

Cavedog · June 2017

For the OP.............it's not the best revenge, but I did manage to troll this guy, or someone else trying the same scam.

Someone contacted me about an attunable BS station I had for sale in the guild store with the same offer as the OP. I told them "Sure, I can do that, but you'll have to wait for me to get done with my pledge".....then I never got back to him. If he contacts me again I will do the same again. It's not the best revenge, but it's something.

GreenhaloX · June 2017

Alanar wrote: »

Here's a warning to the ESO community about a current in-game scam.

I was contacted on two successive days by a player who wanted to buy a high-value item (Attunable Blacksmithing Station) but wanted to trade in person to save the guild store fees. I had one on hand, so I agreed. They then grouped with me, met up, I placed the item in the trade window, they put in the gold, and then I submitted and they canceled. This repeated twice (I thought the trade system was glitching as it has in the past) and then I submitted before they put in the gold and they ran off with the item. They then immediately ignored me so I couldn't whisper them and haven't been heard from since.

I know this sort of cheating has gone on in the past, however this player showed a higher degree of sophistication than most. They specifically targeted me because I had a high-value item listed on a top guild trader (ETU on PC / NA), and they messages me on two consecutive days. If they did this once to me, I can only expect that they will continue to do this to others until their crimes catch up with them. For now, I would recommend never trading with strangers directly, and instead using guild stores for sales to avoid scams.

For ZOS, I have reported this player using the in game system, I hope you address this promptly. In either case, I'll report the results of my support experience here as well.

This P2P trading scam thing has been happening for as long as I can remember, and is still going on, even though, the COD scam seems to be the thing nowadays. Why I only deal in the guild's trader stores and nothing else.

Tandor · June 2017

Ackwalan wrote: »

This fellow is still at it. I got a whisper from him about wanting to buy an item from the guild store. Thankfully I had already seen this thread and knew his name from guild chat, so he got nothing. Of course he may get a name change now since his name is getting well known.

That's one of the main reasons name changes should never be allowed in any MMO. Reputation should count.

Alanar · June 2017

Here's the response from support. Looks like players who have been scammed should not expect any recompense from ZOS.

Greetings,

The player market in The Elder Scrolls Online is a "buyer beware" market, and we are unable to provide any compensation or reimbursement for a trade or mail scam that occurred in-game.
If you are playing on a console and wish to take further action, you may submit a griefing report to Sony Support if playing on the PlayStation 4 or report the abuse to Microsoft Support if on the Xbox One. Players on the Xbox One also have the option to submit a player review against a player’s reputation through their profile. Please visit either Sony or Microsoft’s support sites for more information on how to submit a report.
Thank you for understanding
Best Regards,
Elder Scrolls support

sarbonn · June 2017

For me, this would be a reason why I don't accept trades outside of the guild stores set up for trading. If you lose a trade here and there, so be it. At least you don't get scammed.

Rhoric · June 2017

People have been told over and over throughout the years here to never click submit right away just for this very reason and people have continued to do it. So you only have yourself to blame.

LordSkyKnight · June 2017

Thanks for understanding.
Best regards.

I love that at the end of the message. A groin kick with a smile.