No thanks

NedicWildling wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

No thanks

Could you add to that "No thanks" exactly what is bad to having a system like overwatch does? Where it places players against equally skilled players and if there happens to be a gap in skill between players the higher skill player is quickly moved out of that tier within a game or two? Honestly don't understand the apprehension to a system that works better for everyone playing.

This game is nothing like overwatch.

In overwatch, Pharah is Pharah is Pharah is Pharah. The only thing separating Pharah on team A from Pharah on team B is the player behind it.

In ESO, there are so many variables at play, not including the player. Such a what skills are slotted, what attributes are set, what gear is chosen.

PVP is not competitive in ESO when gear is killing people for you after a light attack.

Adding a ranked system based on that would be a waste of time.

Sigtric wrote: »

NedicWildling wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

No thanks

Could you add to that "No thanks" exactly what is bad to having a system like overwatch does? Where it places players against equally skilled players and if there happens to be a gap in skill between players the higher skill player is quickly moved out of that tier within a game or two? Honestly don't understand the apprehension to a system that works better for everyone playing.

This game is nothing like overwatch.

In overwatch, Pharah is Pharah is Pharah is Pharah. The only thing separating Pharah on team A from Pharah on team B is the player behind it.

In ESO, there are so many variables at play, not including the player. Such a what skills are slotted, what attributes are set, what gear is chosen.

PVP is not competitive in ESO when gear is killing people for you after a light attack.

Adding a ranked system based on that would be a waste of time.

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences in overwatch, still it doesn't mean people shouldn't get matched up against people that are on their skill level regardless. People can wear as many procs as they want it doesn't guarantee a win. The point of having a system like Overwatch is that players will get matched up against players with same skill level regardless and if someone is ranked out place that player will get weeded out to the proper rank. Adding a rank system to bg's isn't a waste of time, when there are premades being put in against players that don't even know how to break cc.

Sigtric wrote: »

NedicWildling wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

No thanks

Could you add to that "No thanks" exactly what is bad to having a system like overwatch does? Where it places players against equally skilled players and if there happens to be a gap in skill between players the higher skill player is quickly moved out of that tier within a game or two? Honestly don't understand the apprehension to a system that works better for everyone playing.

This game is nothing like overwatch.

In overwatch, Pharah is Pharah is Pharah is Pharah. The only thing separating Pharah on team A from Pharah on team B is the player behind it.

In ESO, there are so many variables at play, not including the player. Such a what skills are slotted, what attributes are set, what gear is chosen.

PVP is not competitive in ESO when gear is killing people for you after a light attack.

Adding a ranked system based on that would be a waste of time.

I can absolutely see what you're saying but what you failing to understand is the base game of Overwatch(DPS, Tank, off tank, healer) is taken directly from past MMO's. In a ranking system we would be able to separate the casual players who just thrown on some crafted blue gear and jump in and play with some buddies and those who go in with farmed gold gear who go online to perfect their builds. The fact that there are so many facets to ESO leave the gap in skill even wider between a high level player and a low level player. It's not fair for a 600Cp who's been here since the beginning of the game on and off who just wants to try out some battlegrounds and not get absolutely destroyed by a 600CP who is a PVP pure. The gap in skill is even wider considering there is no PVE mode in Overwatch. How is it fair to those who play PVE to want to just TRY Battlegrounds and meet a group of legitimate PVP players.i don't think PVP'ers want to meet casuals either. We want a fair system. And Overwatch's is the best out right now. Don't take Overwatch's system verbatim at all. It's created an awful community but there HAS to be some way to not get casuals vs people who take it seriously.

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

NedicWildling wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

No thanks

Could you add to that "No thanks" exactly what is bad to having a system like overwatch does? Where it places players against equally skilled players and if there happens to be a gap in skill between players the higher skill player is quickly moved out of that tier within a game or two? Honestly don't understand the apprehension to a system that works better for everyone playing.

This game is nothing like overwatch.

In overwatch, Pharah is Pharah is Pharah is Pharah. The only thing separating Pharah on team A from Pharah on team B is the player behind it.

In ESO, there are so many variables at play, not including the player. Such a what skills are slotted, what attributes are set, what gear is chosen.

PVP is not competitive in ESO when gear is killing people for you after a light attack.

Adding a ranked system based on that would be a waste of time.

I can absolutely see what you're saying but what you failing to understand is the base game of Overwatch(DPS, Tank, off tank, healer) is taken directly from past MMO's. In a ranking system we would be able to separate the casual players who just thrown on some crafted blue gear and jump in and play with some buddies and those who go in with farmed gold gear who go online to perfect their builds. The fact that there are so many facets to ESO leave the gap in skill even wider between a high level player and a low level player. It's not fair for a 600Cp who's been here since the beginning of the game on and off who just wants to try out some battlegrounds and not get absolutely destroyed by a 600CP who is a PVP pure. The gap in skill is even wider considering there is no PVE mode in Overwatch. How is it fair to those who play PVE to want to just TRY Battlegrounds and meet a group of legitimate PVP players.i don't think PVP'ers want to meet casuals either. We want a fair system. And Overwatch's is the best out right now. Don't take Overwatch's system verbatim at all. It's created an awful community but there HAS to be some way to not get casuals vs people who take it seriously.

A few things:
- CP doesn't matter in BGs
- Just because OW uses the idea of the class trinity doesn't mean anything when it comes to match making. Overwatch competitive can be ranked based on 'skill' alone. I even use that loosely because you can only do so much when teamed up with other players. Granted they all happen to rank out near each other but it's still a variable.

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

NedicWildling wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

NedicWildling wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

No thanks

Could you add to that "No thanks" exactly what is bad to having a system like overwatch does? Where it places players against equally skilled players and if there happens to be a gap in skill between players the higher skill player is quickly moved out of that tier within a game or two? Honestly don't understand the apprehension to a system that works better for everyone playing.

This game is nothing like overwatch.

In overwatch, Pharah is Pharah is Pharah is Pharah. The only thing separating Pharah on team A from Pharah on team B is the player behind it.

In ESO, there are so many variables at play, not including the player. Such a what skills are slotted, what attributes are set, what gear is chosen.

PVP is not competitive in ESO when gear is killing people for you after a light attack.

Adding a ranked system based on that would be a waste of time.

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences in overwatch, still it doesn't mean people shouldn't get matched up against people that are on their skill level regardless. People can wear as many procs as they want it doesn't guarantee a win. The point of having a system like Overwatch is that players will get matched up against players with same skill level regardless and if someone is ranked out place that player will get weeded out to the proper rank. Adding a rank system to bg's isn't a waste of time, when there are premades being put in against players that don't even know how to break cc.

How do you measure a players skill in ESO in a way that matchmaking can figure it out?

By wins, losses, as well as score in the game mode. There are ways to do it and I'm sure the developers are smart enough to implement even a rudimentary ranking system. Just to try it out and see if it creates a more competitive, fair environment.

When stamblades with vipers and selens/veli or magsorcs all using the same build are consistently running the top score at every match.

When all death recaps I see contain at least one of the following, if not both: Vipers Sting or Mage's Fury execute tick. Yeah. That's going to make for a completely fair ranked system.

Until PVP can achieve some semblance of balance, this idea would be completely idiotic.

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

As much as people want an MMR system in this game, I don't think ranked battlegrounds would be particularly fun. I think they would be a frustrating, rage inducing mess.

Ranked play with a 3 team system, in a game riddled with cheese and frequent exploits, with scoring systems that reward minimal participation in actual PvP? With an already dodgey queue system and a small enough population you frequently encounter the same people even without any ranking pushing you towards each other?

Let battlegrounds be what they are: a fun, arcadey interlude. When/if the queues get fixed, scoring gets adjusted, and noCP PvP gets tuned a little better, then maybe a ranked mode would be nice.

Agree, there are so many things PVP needs first for ranked to even resemble being something viable.

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

As much as people want an MMR system in this game, I don't think ranked battlegrounds would be particularly fun. I think they would be a frustrating, rage inducing mess.

Ranked play with a 3 team system, in a game riddled with cheese and frequent exploits, with scoring systems that reward minimal participation in actual PvP? With an already dodgey queue system and a small enough population you frequently encounter the same people even without any ranking pushing you towards each other?

Let battlegrounds be what they are: a fun, arcadey interlude. When/if the queues get fixed, scoring gets adjusted, and noCP PvP gets tuned a little better, then maybe a ranked mode would be nice.

Agree, there are so many things PVP needs first for ranked to even resemble being something viable.

You act like I want this to be a priority? When did I ever say I want this over PVP being balanced? I'm sorry if you got that idea and if that's what I said please quote me. I'm simply saying this would be a good idea. I didn't even say that it has to happen immediately.
I just think eventually it would be a good idea. But please continue to attack your straw man and put words in my mouth. That is a huge problem with these forums. This has nothing to do with PVP balance, as THAT IS NOT MY JOB. I just want Battlegrounds to be fun and competitive.Go make a post about PVP balance or comment on one of the countless others. Thanks.

It has everything to do with PVP balance, ranked systems in the current game would suck. That's all I am saying here.

I'm saying it because in the current game this is unrealistic. We are outlining the challenges that need to be addressed before this would be a working system that is beneficial to the player base. As it stands right now, it would not be.

You want battlegrounds to be fun and competitive? Me too. Thus bringing up balance and proc sets.

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

As much as people want an MMR system in this game, I don't think ranked battlegrounds would be particularly fun. I think they would be a frustrating, rage inducing mess.

Ranked play with a 3 team system, in a game riddled with cheese and frequent exploits, with scoring systems that reward minimal participation in actual PvP? With an already dodgey queue system and a small enough population you frequently encounter the same people even without any ranking pushing you towards each other?

Let battlegrounds be what they are: a fun, arcadey interlude. When/if the queues get fixed, scoring gets adjusted, and noCP PvP gets tuned a little better, then maybe a ranked mode would be nice.

Agree, there are so many things PVP needs first for ranked to even resemble being something viable.

You act like I want this to be a priority? When did I ever say I want this over PVP being balanced? I'm sorry if you got that idea and if that's what I said please quote me. I'm simply saying this would be a good idea. I didn't even say that it has to happen immediately.
I just think eventually it would be a good idea. But please continue to attack your straw man and put words in my mouth. That is a huge problem with these forums. This has nothing to do with PVP balance, as THAT IS NOT MY JOB. I just want Battlegrounds to be fun and competitive.Go make a post about PVP balance or comment on one of the countless others. Thanks.

It has everything to do with PVP balance, ranked systems in the current game would suck. That's all I am saying here.

I'm saying it because in the current game this is unrealistic. We are outlining the challenges that need to be addressed before this would be a working system that is beneficial to the player base. As it stands right now, it would not be.

You want battlegrounds to be fun and competitive? Me too. Thus bringing up balance and proc sets.

Did you miss "THE PROCALYPSE" I think it's the most popular post on the forums right now. Dealing directly with your topic. No a ranking system would not work RIGHT NOW. I never even said it would. But im just trying to get it into the developers head that people want it fair and competitive. What is the point of having topics when you can go comment on a thread "this is obsolete until X gets done". I wonder if the Devs know about the proc issue because it's the most popular post right now? The thread even has the "Z" next to it. They know it's an issue. This is a completely different subject about competitive battlegrounds. I just don't understand your reasoning. You do realize there are different teams for different facets of the game? I don't think the entire PVP team would be needed to handle a ranking system. You act like I'm telling them to forget everything else? You just haven't been constructive or helpful at all. The system doesn't work because of ZOS and you attack my post like I'm responsible for it.

How would you match teams in ESO BG? There must be a criteria

Sigtric wrote: »

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

As much as people want an MMR system in this game, I don't think ranked battlegrounds would be particularly fun. I think they would be a frustrating, rage inducing mess.

Ranked play with a 3 team system, in a game riddled with cheese and frequent exploits, with scoring systems that reward minimal participation in actual PvP? With an already dodgey queue system and a small enough population you frequently encounter the same people even without any ranking pushing you towards each other?

Let battlegrounds be what they are: a fun, arcadey interlude. When/if the queues get fixed, scoring gets adjusted, and noCP PvP gets tuned a little better, then maybe a ranked mode would be nice.

Agree, there are so many things PVP needs first for ranked to even resemble being something viable.

You act like I want this to be a priority? When did I ever say I want this over PVP being balanced? I'm sorry if you got that idea and if that's what I said please quote me. I'm simply saying this would be a good idea. I didn't even say that it has to happen immediately.
I just think eventually it would be a good idea. But please continue to attack your straw man and put words in my mouth. That is a huge problem with these forums. This has nothing to do with PVP balance, as THAT IS NOT MY JOB. I just want Battlegrounds to be fun and competitive.Go make a post about PVP balance or comment on one of the countless others. Thanks.

It has everything to do with PVP balance, ranked systems in the current game would suck. That's all I am saying here.

I'm saying it because in the current game this is unrealistic. We are outlining the challenges that need to be addressed before this would be a working system that is beneficial to the player base. As it stands right now, it would not be.

You want battlegrounds to be fun and competitive? Me too. Thus bringing up balance and proc sets.

Did you miss "THE PROCALYPSE" I think it's the most popular post on the forums right now. Dealing directly with your topic. No a ranking system would not work RIGHT NOW. I never even said it would. But im just trying to get it into the developers head that people want it fair and competitive. What is the point of having topics when you can go comment on a thread "this is obsolete until X gets done". I wonder if the Devs know about the proc issue because it's the most popular post right now? The thread even has the "Z" next to it. They know it's an issue. This is a completely different subject about competitive battlegrounds. I just don't understand your reasoning. You do realize there are different teams for different facets of the game? I don't think the entire PVP team would be needed to handle a ranking system. You act like I'm telling them to forget everything else? You just haven't been constructive or helpful at all. The system doesn't work because of ZOS and you attack my post like I'm responsible for it.

You don't understand, not my problem.

I'm not acting like anything. I was asked to give my reasons for my no thank you comment and I did so. Not my fault you can't grasp it.

Besides, even if we achieve a better place with procs and class balance this is still an MMO. You can not bring a ranked system into an MMO where gear and ability sets weigh so heavily on player performance. It is completely different than Overwatch because all players are using the same exact characters.

As I mentioned before, Pharah is Pharah. The only difference is the person controlling the character. Player skill can be measured against another because they are both using the same thing. In ESO one player can outperform another based on gear alone. Hypothetically, even if proc sets didn't exist and class balance was better, certain gear combinations will still outclass player skill.

Gear=Power in this game (and MMO's in general) and because of that, MMR will never be accurate, or balanced. It can not possibly determine player skill in this game because it simply can't be measured. Wins and KBs don't mean anything when a sorc can kill steal all day long with Mage's Wrath, or someone with absolutely no skill can routinely get carried to victory by running with a premade with other players who have their crap together (farmed vipers).

For MMR to work, all players need to be using the same tools, so that skill can determine things. This will not be happening in this kind of game.

You're right, I don't understand. Because your argument of "we can't have anything new until the old stuff is fixed" is asinine. By your thought process no new content, ideas, or conversations about future content is off limits until other facets of the game are fixed and let me just introduce you to video games, and the real world actually, that's not how it works bud. We wouldn't have PVP by your though process. And I agree, PVP balance is screwed.
But to say that some semblance of a skill based ranking system wouldn't work is asinine. Even just use the leaderboards and after every so hundred players put a line. There are your tiers. You talk about gear and skills and don't even realize that the only people playing battlegrounds eventually will be those with gold gear. How can you make sense of someone who has never played and isn't even on a leaderboard playing a top 100 player? Players need to be eased into PVP and not everybody has a guild to play with in Cyrodiil or practice dueling with. It also makes sense because presumably the ones at the top of the leaderboards have the best gear for PVP. It does not make sense in a fair and competitive game mode to have that happening. Also gear means nothing behind a garbage player. Yes it will get them a few free kills in team death match but you seem to fail to understand that 2/3 game modes are objective based. Big whoop that you've got 4 separate players with golden gear when they have no coordination when they meet up against 4 players who know their build with coordination and strategy gear ceases to matter.

Sigtric wrote: »

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Woyb wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

As much as people want an MMR system in this game, I don't think ranked battlegrounds would be particularly fun. I think they would be a frustrating, rage inducing mess.

Ranked play with a 3 team system, in a game riddled with cheese and frequent exploits, with scoring systems that reward minimal participation in actual PvP? With an already dodgey queue system and a small enough population you frequently encounter the same people even without any ranking pushing you towards each other?

Let battlegrounds be what they are: a fun, arcadey interlude. When/if the queues get fixed, scoring gets adjusted, and noCP PvP gets tuned a little better, then maybe a ranked mode would be nice.

Agree, there are so many things PVP needs first for ranked to even resemble being something viable.

You act like I want this to be a priority? When did I ever say I want this over PVP being balanced? I'm sorry if you got that idea and if that's what I said please quote me. I'm simply saying this would be a good idea. I didn't even say that it has to happen immediately.
I just think eventually it would be a good idea. But please continue to attack your straw man and put words in my mouth. That is a huge problem with these forums. This has nothing to do with PVP balance, as THAT IS NOT MY JOB. I just want Battlegrounds to be fun and competitive.Go make a post about PVP balance or comment on one of the countless others. Thanks.

It has everything to do with PVP balance, ranked systems in the current game would suck. That's all I am saying here.

I'm saying it because in the current game this is unrealistic. We are outlining the challenges that need to be addressed before this would be a working system that is beneficial to the player base. As it stands right now, it would not be.

You want battlegrounds to be fun and competitive? Me too. Thus bringing up balance and proc sets.

Did you miss "THE PROCALYPSE" I think it's the most popular post on the forums right now. Dealing directly with your topic. No a ranking system would not work RIGHT NOW. I never even said it would. But im just trying to get it into the developers head that people want it fair and competitive. What is the point of having topics when you can go comment on a thread "this is obsolete until X gets done". I wonder if the Devs know about the proc issue because it's the most popular post right now? The thread even has the "Z" next to it. They know it's an issue. This is a completely different subject about competitive battlegrounds. I just don't understand your reasoning. You do realize there are different teams for different facets of the game? I don't think the entire PVP team would be needed to handle a ranking system. You act like I'm telling them to forget everything else? You just haven't been constructive or helpful at all. The system doesn't work because of ZOS and you attack my post like I'm responsible for it.

You don't understand, not my problem.

I'm not acting like anything. I was asked to give my reasons for my no thank you comment and I did so. Not my fault you can't grasp it.

Besides, even if we achieve a better place with procs and class balance this is still an MMO. You can not bring a ranked system into an MMO where gear and ability sets weigh so heavily on player performance. It is completely different than Overwatch because all players are using the same exact characters.

As I mentioned before, Pharah is Pharah. The only difference is the person controlling the character. Player skill can be measured against another because they are both using the same thing. In ESO one player can outperform another based on gear alone. Hypothetically, even if proc sets didn't exist and class balance was better, certain gear combinations will still outclass player skill.

Gear=Power in this game (and MMO's in general) and because of that, MMR will never be accurate, or balanced. It can not possibly determine player skill in this game because it simply can't be measured. Wins and KBs don't mean anything when a sorc can kill steal all day long with Mage's Wrath, or someone with absolutely no skill can routinely get carried to victory by running with a premade with other players who have their crap together (farmed vipers).

For MMR to work, all players need to be using the same tools, so that skill can determine things. This will not be happening in this kind of game.

In overwatch though there is a huge difference between pharah and mccree. Basically it means if you want to be competitive you either need to main mccree or solider as a dps. That's basically the same thing as eso. If you want to be competitive run the gear you fell is competitive