Justiciar wrote: »

This seems to be a mountain out of a mole hill. The solution is: don't use a frost staff if you're not tanking.

Once again pigeon holing in Elder scrolls..damn I hate that...

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

The problem is that the taunt pulls aggro from the tank in parties. So as a healer, I like defensive options to keep myself alive while healing. The ice staff was a solution to this, allowing me to actually block hard cc/damaging abilities... However, I can't my mana resources back with heavy attacks, or I pull the boss to me... That's ridiculous and frustrating. Sword and board doesn't taunt on a heavy attack, I don't get where you got that from? Heavy attacks are necessary for sustain, especially now in morrowind. The taunt has to go!

Use your resto staff to get resources back?

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

It's indeed a great idea. Please ZoS don't listen to the cries.

Frost DPS is just something ZOS has not really done much to encourage (Winterborne and Ysgramor notwithstanding)

Frost Staff adds no extra damage, meaning it's useless from a DPS standpoint and Warden's passive increase in Frost Damage is still less than the damage buffs provided by Fire or Lightning staff so it's still not worth it for them either outside of thematic RPing. You're honestly better off using Iceheart if you want a damage shield that badly.

Facts are, Frost DPS sets are worthless; a relic of days gone by. ZOS had a chance to make Frost Magic relevant with Warden but decided Frost Magic would be for Tanking and designed most of Warden's Frost abilities for that purpose to go along with the Frost Staff Revisions. It's not changing back. The only way you'll be able to utilize any of those Frost Magic sets is to bite the bullet and make a Frost Staff Tank. It'll work in Dungeons and PvP just fine but a DPS spec Frost build is a dead dream at this point.

Just to clarify, there is no taunt on the Ice Staff today. The taunt comes with putting points in the Tri-Focus passive.

So if you intent is to use the staff to HA and restore resources, don't put points into the Tri-Focus passive.

Simple as that.

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

NO! I love my ice staff taunt...a free taunt that RESTORES Magicka instead of costing it

Stannum wrote: »

1. It looks for me that using Frost for DPS is allways DPS loss (fire gives 8% to all singl target dmg, Lightning - all AoE, frost gives nothing)
2. Do not open first destro passive, and have no taunt.
3. Really Frost destro taunt on heavies is not usefull for tanking (as while you are charging you are vulnerable). I wish it were frost option on ele drain skill, that would be really great for frost tanking.

You don't know how to use this taunt if you think its not useful for tanking...you are only vulnerable if you are using it at the wrong time. Sure, there are some fights you cant use it...but there are others where it shines(Lord warden clones in vICP, Minotaur boss in vBF, last boss of vFH, etc etc). but if your tank is too weak to take a couple hits without blocking, something is seriously wrong. Obviously you dont use this taunt if you have a heavy attack incoming from a bone colossus, but if you know how to use this taunt, you will rarely ever slot inner fire(only places like the twins in vMOL or HM vet stonecaller where a faster taunt is actually required) I for one will never go back to dual bar S&B with the extra utility an ice staff brings

Daus wrote: »

Honestly they really need to make the ice staff a DPS weapon. Making it a tanking weapon was a terrible idea. I appreciate ZOS trying to be innovative, but it's time ZOS comes to terms with the fact that it just won't work.

Why? It was a DPS weapon before...guess what? It was never used....reverting the tanking changes(which ADDED utility) wont change this...it will STILL never be used, you will just take away utility from tanks because you think all weapons should be DPS weapons. Guess what? Magicka DPS already has 2 weapons to chose from...tanks before the ice staff changes had only one. Ice staves have NOTHING TO OFFER DPS AND NEVER HAVE. This is why they have never been a DPS weapon...making things cold slows them down...this is a CC ability...therefore...tanking. Shocking things and burning things hurts them...therefor DPS...its not hard to understand

P.S. As a tank... THE ICE STAFF IS WORKING AS A TANKING WEAPON, how much clearer do you need it to be? It was never meant to be the ONLY tanking weapon. It was meant to supplement S&B, which is exactly what it does. S&B front bar, Ice staff back bar....tanking toolkit greatly expanded. If anything they need to expand upon the tanking theme for the ice staff....a shorter heavy attack...increased chance of chilled mobs, etc.

Mettaricana wrote: »

Make its clench or pulse a taunt so it can have a spammable taunt like tanks

If for some insane reason you are not already using S&B on your other bar you can always use inner fire for your "spammable" taunt, but to be clear: Frost staff as a sole tanking weapon is a terrible idea...its taunt does not de-buff the boss, without S&B you also lose access to the ult generating heroic slash AND the only non-class reflect in the game...use the ice staff to supplement, not replace S&B...it will never be a replacement in its current form

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Frost DPS is just something ZOS has not really done much to encourage (Winterborne and Ysgramor notwithstanding)

Frost Staff adds no extra damage, meaning it's useless from a DPS standpoint and Warden's passive increase in Frost Damage is still less than the damage buffs provided by Fire or Lightning staff so it's still not worth it for them either outside of thematic RPing. You're honestly better off using Iceheart if you want a damage shield that badly.

Facts are, Frost DPS sets are worthless; a relic of days gone by. ZOS had a chance to make Frost Magic relevant with Warden but decided Frost Magic would be for Tanking and designed most of Warden's Frost abilities for that purpose to go along with the Frost Staff Revisions. It's not changing back. The only way you'll be able to utilize any of those Frost Magic sets is to bite the bullet and make a Frost Staff Tank. It'll work in Dungeons and PvP just fine but a DPS spec Frost build is a dead dream at this point.

You sound just like the people who said ZOS "has spoken" and will never make 2H weapons count as two pieces for sets.

I think that taunt on ha is flawed, you need HA to regain magica the taunt should be a skill button. like sword n boards taunts, so you can choose when to employ it. Destro staff already has separate effects on the different elements on each skill, putting the taunt on one of those would be better.

Capsaica wrote: »

There is a bit of thread necromancy going on here, but I'll respond anyway...

I like the idea of ice staff tanking, and wish it were more viable. If you are going to make ice staff tanks competitive with S/B tanks, they need a skill devoted to taunting. Make one of the less used destro staff skills incorporate a taunt when an ice staff is eqipped and remove the heavy attack taunt. It is clunky anyway, and there is already a ranged taunt available with the undaunted skill line.

How about impulse? Or even, specifically, the morph that no one uses? How about an AoE taunt? Mmmmmm....tasty...

Limit the taunt to 3 enemies per cast. It costs way more magicka relative to the S/B single target taunt that traditional tanks use, so it still has a decent cost vs reward to it. The ability to taunt multiple enemies at once could be quite valuable and make the concept of ice staff tanking more interesting.

Ice tanks also need access to major fracture. Some classes can access this through class skills, but not all. I think adding an AoE taunt AND major fracture to impulse would be too much, so it might need to be incorporated somewhere else. Perhaps the less-used morph of weakness to elements? It would force a choice between primary blocking resource return and both debuffs (fracture and breach). Considering that S/B users do not have access to minor staminasteal, this seems pretty fair. Also considering that most healers are applying elemental drain for the magicka return anyway for dps, tank and heals, this would be an ok compromise, I think.

umm, the appeal of the heavy attack taunt is that it is FREE AND actually RETURNS MAGICKA...if I wanted a skill taunt that is magicka based, I would simply use inner fire. Attaching a taunt to elemental drain when ice staff is equipped would be a good compromise...losing the resource return for instant cast and debuff...but people keep thinking that ice staff is competing with S&B...its not...there is no way that it can without revamping the entire skill line. S&B will ALWAYS be the main tanking go-to skill line while ice staff will simply be supplemental. The ONLY way this changes is if an ice-staff reflect and taunt debuffs are added into the skill line somehow...something I don't see happening. I tried Ice staff as the only tanking weapon...it can be done...but it sub-par in every way, shape and form to the S&B/Ice Staff combo.

As for AoE taunts...they simply are not needed. Throwing down an AoE of you choice(I generally use anti-cavalry caltrops on stam tanks and elemental blockade on magicka tanks) will aggro the ads on you long enough for you to get control of them. AoE taunts are pointless, while you can taunt all the things and tank them in a lot of fights, there are certain fights where its detrimental to do so(Velidreth is much harder if the tank taunts more than just the boss and the atros because it draws them into her cleave attack as an example...making melee DPS job very hard). as it is, I have no trouble taunting all the things when I want to...I dont need or want an AoE taunt that will just make new tanks lazy and unable to prioritize

If ZoS wants ice staves to be tanking weapons then they shouldn't share a skill line with DPS weapons. The implementation of ice staves as tanking weapons was simply lazy and I'm honestly surprised that they haven't either reverted it back to a DPS weapon or given it it's own skill line. As it is now lightning staves are more used by tanks than ice staves.

The taunt is great when leveling up. I always put frost staff to backbar now, to have possibility to taunt while tight on skill points. I've seen too many chicken runs at world bosses, dolmens and normal dungeons.

Still, best place for taunt would be a non-DD morph in first skill so it's available for low-level craracters. Heavy attack is clumsy and too slow. And there are too many DDs who don't understand it.

Zach2322 wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

If they removed the taunt, my Warden Healer would be a lot more fun due to the CC abilities of ice magic.

2/2 Glacial Presence + Winter's Revenge on Restoration front bar + Elemental Blockade & Elemental Drain + 2/2 Elemental Force on Destruction back bar would give Warden healers some serious CC abilities while not having to worry about avoiding HA on their back bar.

But you can do it right now... You don't need to take tri focus since that is what makes the heavy attack into a taunt.

While true, blocking as a squishy healer who's got all their stats in magicka and needs as much magicka as possible to ensure plenty of heals when needed and thus most of their gear is build around magicka sustain. They also need their limited stamina for rolling out of AoE effects, the tri-focus perk on ice staffs looks awfully nice. The other 2 staff perks are also nice pluses as well. I don't like being forced to avoid passives because 1/3 of its possible effects is literally the worst thing a healer can do .