A discussion about Re-sale

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

I offer to buy reagents in bulk at 60% of their value. I have done this same basic thing, with various items, on every MMO I’ve ever played. As well as in the drugstore my wife and I own in real life. Our candy, soda, homeopathy and many other products are bought from distributors at about that rate.
Until I started playing ESO I never had a problem with it. Suddenly in this game people in the zones have become crusaders against re-sale profit! I get threats insults profanity, accusations, and more. All because I’m offering less than MM.
Is there no free market in this game? Where is the hidden code that says everything must be sold for MM prices only? Why is this the first game where re-sale sparks such outrage?
I wonder do all these offended people charge into retails stores around the world and demand that THEY start paying retail prices for their stock and make 0 profit?
Do they go around in game to all the traders I see that have items listed for up to 1000% over MM and cry to those sellers? I mean since they are so dedicated to making sure there is NO profit in the game why stop with me?
Looking for opinions on this.

Anyone against capitalism should be jailed. We live in a democracy. I support your activity and and I'm sure others do. You have to understand people don't come out of the woodwork to praise Walmart, but people love Walmart, that's why it's stock has such a good valuation relative to other stocks in the retail sector. Keep up the good work and don't be ashamed to gouge, it's what makes room for competition!

Tenn60 · June 2017

Like others have said just ignore them, everybody plays the game differently. I am not big on selling or making tons of gold, but I think if someone is willing to buy stuff at a higher value than you paid it's not an issue. I make most my money undercutting prices because I am usually making money because I need something and need quick gold. If you buy cheap from me and then instantly sale it for a profit, it's my fault for not asking for more in the first place if my goal is to make as much as I can. And from a personal note I see people buying power lvling and I can't help but laugh remembering the grind of vet lvls and how long that took.

DurzoBlint13 · June 2017

it seems like the people that complain about things like this are the same ones that expect any crafter to make the sets they want for free while ignoring all of the materials, tempers, motifs, and TIME it takes to craft those sets. In today's world there are a lot of people with the 'entitled children' mentality
just ignore them

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

I never claimed to have MM prices BUT I CAN claim the ability to buy large quantities and millions of gold worth of products immediately. Some people don’t want to sit and wait for days on end for trader sales . They want their money NOW!

The problem is the trade system. For most, it's hard to make much. Undercutting makes people feel they'll make less, even though it help keep the market healthy.

They need to open up trading more, without making it a centralized system.

They need to make a centralized AH and be done with it, this new way just simply isn't working

drakhan2002_ESO · June 2017

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

it seems like the people that complain about things like this are the same ones that expect any crafter to make the sets they want for free while ignoring all of the materials, tempers, motifs, and TIME it takes to craft those sets. In today's world there are a lot of people with the 'entitled children' mentality
just ignore them

Exactly the reason I stopped crafting for anyone else. So many times I'd have a guildie say can you make XYZ set in XYZ style? Of course it would be something like TBS and in some (at the time) rare style at cp 160...they wouldn't offer a tip or even materials. After a few times like that, I just keep my crafting to myself.

Tan9oSuccka · June 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

I never claimed to have MM prices BUT I CAN claim the ability to buy large quantities and millions of gold worth of products immediately. Some people don’t want to sit and wait for days on end for trader sales . They want their money NOW!

The problem is the trade system. For most, it's hard to make much. Undercutting makes people feel they'll make less, even though it help keep the market healthy.

They need to open up trading more, without making it a centralized system.

Undercutting is a plague in some cases. I've seen certain items in a guild go for 30% less than the going rate from every other guild in Mournhold and elsewhere.

People can't wait the extra day to sell? List for 50 gold cheaper...the next guy does the same thing and so on and so on.

TheStealthDude · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

Kali_Despoine wrote: »

In a world where action houses aren't available to everyone... this happens.

Are you saying you are looking for a bulk buy?
I know players who thought they were getting a great deal when selling the few they had.
Only to find out they could have made more money selling them elsewhere.
Lesson learned.

Also, bot adverts are annoying.
You probably sound like a bot spammer.

If I think your price is shady I will go right behind you and offer more gold.
your not the only one with millions of gold and nothing to do with it.

What you need to do is find a farmer. There are people like that in this game.
All they do is farm and sell in bulk.
They know the prices and know what bulk buys are about.

I’m running a business and like every business I purchase my stock below retail. Do you charge into your local GameStop, Wal-Mart, Walgreens, and other businesses and demand that they start purchasing their stock at retail value and make no profit?

Do you also go around to all the guild traders I see that have stuff listed for up to 1000% over MM and cry to those sellers? I mean since you are so dedicated to making sure there is NO profit in the game why stop with me?

I think you need to go to your local High school or Community college and ask to take a class on business and economics.

I think the problem is that you are advertising to the wrong people. As another poster pointed out, you need to find the farmers/suppliers and approach them directly. They aren't going to be the people sitting in zone chat. The farmers are going to be out farming and not paying chat much attention, if they are even in it to begin with.

idk · June 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

I never claimed to have MM prices BUT I CAN claim the ability to buy large quantities and millions of gold worth of products immediately. Some people don’t want to sit and wait for days on end for trader sales . They want their money NOW!

The problem is the trade system. For most, it's hard to make much. Undercutting makes people feel they'll make less, even though it help keep the market healthy.

They need to open up trading more, without making it a centralized system.

They need to make a centralized AH and be done with it, this new way just simply isn't working

It's working great and guild traders vs AH have nothing to do with the OP.

TheDarkoil · June 2017

I once offered perfect roes in chat 3 for 20k, I got a load of abuse for undercutting the guild trader prices which is usually 11k for 1, it's like if I want to sell them for that much I blooming will do OK

Almar · June 2017

[/quote]Anyone against capitalism should be jailed. We live in a democracy. I support your activity and and I'm sure others do. You have to understand people don't come out of the woodwork to praise Walmart, but people love Walmart, that's why it's stock has such a good valuation relative to other stocks in the retail sector. Keep up the good work and don't be ashamed to gouge, it's what makes room for competition![/quote]

I';m seeing 90% support here! Thank you all. If you see me in zone with Dalamario toon. Back me up against the trolls!

Tan9oSuccka · June 2017

I usually laugh when people offer to buy materials at about a 1/3 of the value.

I'll buy Tempering Alloy at 3K too.

I don't have anything against people doing this. I just feel bad for the people getting duped.

TheStealthDude · June 2017

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

I offer to buy reagents in bulk at 60% of their value. I have done this same basic thing, with various items, on every MMO I’ve ever played. As well as in the drugstore my wife and I own in real life. Our candy, soda, homeopathy and many other products are bought from distributors at about that rate.
Until I started playing ESO I never had a problem with it. Suddenly in this game people in the zones have become crusaders against re-sale profit! I get threats insults profanity, accusations, and more. All because I’m offering less than MM.
Is there no free market in this game? Where is the hidden code that says everything must be sold for MM prices only? Why is this the first game where re-sale sparks such outrage?
I wonder do all these offended people charge into retails stores around the world and demand that THEY start paying retail prices for their stock and make 0 profit?
Do they go around in game to all the traders I see that have items listed for up to 1000% over MM and cry to those sellers? I mean since they are so dedicated to making sure there is NO profit in the game why stop with me?
Looking for opinions on this.

Anyone against capitalism should be jailed. We live in a democracy. I support your activity and and I'm sure others do. You have to understand people don't come out of the woodwork to praise Walmart, but people love Walmart, that's why it's stock has such a good valuation relative to other stocks in the retail sector. Keep up the good work and don't be ashamed to gouge, it's what makes room for competition!

You do realize that public backlash is also a part of capitalism, right? And while Wal-Mart's stock does ok, it doesn't mean everyone loves them. They deal with plenty of criticism of their methods, similar to the OP in fact.

Nestor · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

It is my zone ads saying I'm buying them at 60% that causes all the outrage.

Why state the 60%? Just state the price you are willing to pay. Let people decide what they want to do from there.

Miss_Morphine · June 2017

This guy is actively seeking out new players in low level zones and offering 50% of the real price, less in some cases.

He is bad and should feel bad.

Not because he's reselling for profit, but because he is tricking new people.

It's not like when he buys in bulk from suppliers the suppliers don't know how the world works.

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

This guy is actively seeking out new players in low level zones and offering 50% of the real price, less in some cases.

He is bad and should feel bad.

Not because he's reselling for profit, but because he is tricking new people.

It's not like when he buys in bulk from suppliers the suppliers don't know how the world works.

That's exactly why other games have a public centralized server wide AH, so people don't get scammed.

Miss_Morphine · June 2017

By the way, the "abuse" he got was people price checking him, and when he got mad saying that his logic is flawed.
Oh, and me offering to buy everything in bulk at 25% under MM right after his adverts.

Scandalous.

TheStealthDude · June 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

This guy is actively seeking out new players in low level zones and offering 50% of the real price, less in some cases.

He is bad and should feel bad.

Not because he's reselling for profit, but because he is tricking new people.

It's not like when he buys in bulk from suppliers the suppliers don't know how the world works.

That's exactly why other games have a public centralized server wide AH, so people don't get scammed.

A centralized AH also allows one person to corner an entire market with ease, driving up prices.

CromulentForumID · June 2017

Runs wrote: »

White Knights feel like you are taking advantage of uninformed players. Even new players know when someone is offering to buy bulk, that they are reselling or making gold off the items via crafting. It isn't rocket science. But these people think so highly of themselves and so little of other people that they feel the need to tell everyone the obvious.

I am not so sure that it is obvious, at least on consoles. The price people pay for something will be drastically different, depending on the zone they buy it in. I sell the exact same thing in Mournhold at 5 times the price, at least, than I do in my guilds with a trader in another location.

It's very possible that players can get fooled into thinking they are getting a decent price.
1. The player doesn't really shop at traders, so they aren't aware of any pricing
2. The player doesn't look at the prices in the main hubs, so they only see the remote trader pricing
3. The player is not in a guild for whatever reason, so they see no guild chat about pricing

I'm not going to weigh in on the value of people calling out bad pricing, but I think it's a stretch to say that everyone knows what "the price" is.

There may not be a better indicator in the English language that the speaker will be wrong when you hear: "Everybody knows that..."

AlnilamE · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

I’m running a business and like every business I purchase my stock below retail. Do you charge into your local GameStop, Wal-Mart, Walgreens, and other businesses and demand that they start purchasing their stock at retail value and make no profit?

Except that this game doesn't have a clear distinction between "suppliers" and "retailers", so to the outside eye, you are going into GameStop and Walmart and asking them to sell to you with a 40% discount so you can resell at full price.

Neither of you is wrong. And as long as your suppliers are in the clear about their status as suppliers and not retailers, I'm perfectly fine with it.

Do you also go around to all the guild traders I see that have stuff listed for up to 1000% over MM and cry to those sellers? I mean since you are so dedicated to making sure there is NO profit in the game why stop with me?

I think you need to go to your local High school or Community college and ask to take a class on business and economics.

If people are listing things at prices others are not willing to pay, that's not my problem.

I personally don't care much about what MM says if I'm buying. I set a range that's acceptable for me and if I find the item I'm looking for within that range, I will buy it.

It's my gold and I can do whatever the heck I want with it.

Rinmaethodain · June 2017

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

I never claimed to have MM prices BUT I CAN claim the ability to buy large quantities and millions of gold worth of products immediately. Some people don’t want to sit and wait for days on end for trader sales . They want their money NOW!

The problem is the trade system. For most, it's hard to make much. Undercutting makes people feel they'll make less, even though it help keep the market healthy.

They need to open up trading more, without making it a centralized system.

Undercutting is a plague in some cases. I've seen certain items in a guild go for 30% less than the going rate from every other guild in Mournhold and elsewhere.

People can't wait the extra day to sell? List for 50 gold cheaper...the next guy does the same thing and so on and so on.

Yes, undercutting is plague just like people who sell things under production cost because they use this ridiculous way of thinking "i farmed it myself so its free". They will disregard how long it takes to farm something, they dont even realise how much gold they can earn in alternative way during that time and there we see things like, item costs 20k worth of materials to craft -> someone sells it for 5k because "I FaRmEd MaTeRiAlS MySeLf, ThEy ArE FrEe"

bryanhaas · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

I offer to buy reagents in bulk at 60% of their value. I have done this same basic thing, with various items, on every MMO I’ve ever played. As well as in the drugstore my wife and I own in real life. Our candy, soda, homeopathy and many other products are bought from distributors at about that rate.
Until I started playing ESO I never had a problem with it. Suddenly in this game people in the zones have become crusaders against re-sale profit! I get threats insults profanity, accusations, and more. All because I’m offering less than MM.
Is there no free market in this game? Where is the hidden code that says everything must be sold for MM prices only? Why is this the first game where re-sale sparks such outrage?
I wonder do all these offended people charge into retails stores around the world and demand that THEY start paying retail prices for their stock and make 0 profit?
Do they go around in game to all the traders I see that have items listed for up to 1000% over MM and cry to those sellers? I mean since they are so dedicated to making sure there is NO profit in the game why stop with me?
Looking for opinions on this.

I get it all the time so I buy the crap everyone thinks is worthless. 25 cotton for 8k when buying a full stack for 5k

Alchemy is a core item so everyone wants to penny pinch on that, go with the trash and profit will be much higher.

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

This guy is actively seeking out new players in low level zones and offering 50% of the real price, less in some cases.

He is bad and should feel bad.

Not because he's reselling for profit, but because he is tricking new people.

It's not like when he buys in bulk from suppliers the suppliers don't know how the world works.

That's exactly why other games have a public centralized server wide AH, so people don't get scammed.

A centralized AH also allows one person to corner an entire market with ease, driving up prices.

You do know TTC does the exact same thing, it just takes a bit more time to go pick those items up?

Absalon · June 2017

I don't like what you doing, but I respect your right to do it.

Amadis001 · June 2017

What service are you offering that justifies the low offer price? Are you buying in bulk where others cannot? Something else I'm missing?

If it's perceived that you are trying to scam noobs, then people in chat will be all over you. People offering 60% of the going rate are largely seen as trying to take advantage of the naivete of others.

DurzoBlint13 · June 2017

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

it seems like the people that complain about things like this are the same ones that expect any crafter to make the sets they want for free while ignoring all of the materials, tempers, motifs, and TIME it takes to craft those sets. In today's world there are a lot of people with the 'entitled children' mentality
just ignore them

Exactly the reason I stopped crafting for anyone else. So many times I'd have a guildie say can you make XYZ set in XYZ style? Of course it would be something like TBS and in some (at the time) rare style at cp 160...they wouldn't offer a tip or even materials. After a few times like that, I just keep my crafting to myself.

this!^^^ I stopped crafting for randoms too a while ago. I rarely will craft for friends anymore if they do not give the materials (unless they are new and do not have any). Learning 9 traits in everything is a large time investment and making cp160 gear is a huge material investment, and I can not bring myself to grind any more....lower level gear is another matter entirely and I will happily use my any lower level mats I can
and this is assuming they tell you the right traits and motifs in the first place (which does not always happen)

Almar · June 2017

Amadis001 wrote: »

What service are you offering that justifies the low offer price? Are you buying in bulk where others cannot? Something else I'm missing?

If it's perceived that you are trying to scam noobs, then people in chat will be all over you. People offering 60% of the going rate are largely seen as trying to take advantage of the naivete of others.

I do buy in huge quantities, but I don't consider it a "special service". I'm taking advantage of a free market. If you read the previous replies in this thread you will see that 90% of the people here agree with me. If you don't like my prices don't buy from me.
The definition of a scam is: a dishonest scheme; a fraud.
"an insurance scam" synonyms: fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick.
I am not offering one thing then giving another, im up front about my prices therefore there is NO scam.

Almar · June 2017

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

White Knights feel like you are taking advantage of uninformed players. Even new players know when someone is offering to buy bulk, that they are reselling or making gold off the items via crafting. It isn't rocket science. But these people think so highly of themselves and so little of other people that they feel the need to tell everyone the obvious.

I am not so sure that it is obvious, at least on consoles. The price people pay for something will be drastically different, depending on the zone they buy it in. I sell the exact same thing in Mournhold at 5 times the price, at least, than I do in my guilds with a trader in another location.

It's very possible that players can get fooled into thinking they are getting a decent price.
1. The player doesn't really shop at traders, so they aren't aware of any pricing
2. The player doesn't look at the prices in the main hubs, so they only see the remote trader pricing
3. The player is not in a guild for whatever reason, so they see no guild chat about pricing

I'm not going to weigh in on the value of people calling out bad pricing, but I think it's a stretch to say that everyone knows what "the price" is.

There may not be a better indicator in the English language that the speaker will be wrong when you hear: "Everybody knows that..."

So under your logic all items MUST be bought at the going rate and profit is not allowed?

When you go to a guild trader you only buy items in white right? Because if you buy anything that is listed in MM Blue or green that means you’re scamming someone out of the REAL value.

Imryll · June 2017

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

This guy is actively seeking out new players in low level zones and offering 50% of the real price, less in some cases.

He is bad and should feel bad.

Not because he's reselling for profit, but because he is tricking new people.

It's not like when he buys in bulk from suppliers the suppliers don't know how the world works.

How can you say that he's tricking folks if he tells them he's paying 60%? I wouldn't sell to him, but I belong to a guild with a trader. If he tells them what he's doing, they have the information they need to make a choice--sell to him for immediate cash and bag space, announce in zone that they want to sell whatever it is for a higher price, compare his price to the vendor price, do some research on how trade works in ESO, or decide to hold onto their items for now.

phileunderx2 · June 2017

I don't see a problem with what the op is doing. He is a business man who is just trying to make some gold. There are lots of players who are not in guilds and this way they can make some gold off of what to them is worthless as these flowers have no value with the npc vendor. Really the true value of any item is what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Miss_Morphine · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

White Knights feel like you are taking advantage of uninformed players. Even new players know when someone is offering to buy bulk, that they are reselling or making gold off the items via crafting. It isn't rocket science. But these people think so highly of themselves and so little of other people that they feel the need to tell everyone the obvious.

I am not so sure that it is obvious, at least on consoles. The price people pay for something will be drastically different, depending on the zone they buy it in. I sell the exact same thing in Mournhold at 5 times the price, at least, than I do in my guilds with a trader in another location.

It's very possible that players can get fooled into thinking they are getting a decent price.
1. The player doesn't really shop at traders, so they aren't aware of any pricing
2. The player doesn't look at the prices in the main hubs, so they only see the remote trader pricing
3. The player is not in a guild for whatever reason, so they see no guild chat about pricing

I'm not going to weigh in on the value of people calling out bad pricing, but I think it's a stretch to say that everyone knows what "the price" is.

There may not be a better indicator in the English language that the speaker will be wrong when you hear: "Everybody knows that..."

So under your logic all items MUST be bought at the going rate and profit is not allowed?

When you go to a guild trader you only buy items in white right? Because if you buy anything that is listed in MM Blue or green that means you’re scamming someone out of the REAL value.

When a person lists something in a guild store they are seeking out buyers, and if they have access to a guild trader they no doubt have friends or guild mates with MM. It's their choice to do whatever with their goods, and that is great. It's not for anyone to police the sellers. If an informed person was willing to sell to you at the prices you charge I have 0 problem with it.
Furthermore, listing at lower prices provides the sellers the service of selling things quickly thus giving them more free listing spaces to sell more stuff.

When you go specifically to starter zones and zones where new players hang out, get mad at people price checking your goods or competing with your prices you are the one specifically seeking out ignorant sellers to make profit off of their lack of knowledge. You know that they don't know better, more than that - you are banking on it.
That is not a nice thing to do.

I don't think anyone here really has an issue with commerce or profit. I know I certainly don't. You simply have very questionable practices - you take advantage of people.

Furthermore your suppliers in your store sell you goods for cheaper and customers buy your goods for more because you offer a service. The supplier doesn't have to rent a space, hire employees, manage every individual sale, promote their store, etc. The buyer is offered convenience in terms of your store location, layout, and assistance from the clerks. You yourself have admitted that you provide no service in ESO. That in itself doesn't make what you do wrong - the things I mentioned above do - it just undermines your capitalism first defense. The point of capitalism is that you exchange for goods and services. You resent freedom of information. You resent free market competition. The people who sell to you end up paying for nothing, and not because they want to but because they don't know that extra value to their goods exists.