Remove Ice Staff Taunt....

jlmurra2 · June 2017

Yes! Please remove the ice staff taunt effect. Tri-focus needs something that would be more beneficial to a variety of builds. As it is now, it is too restrictive.

lardvader · June 2017

How about remove taunt from tri-focus and add it as a separate passive?

NeillMcAttack · June 2017

It has to go, I completely agree! I used to run a support build on my nightblade that focused on control, frost clench was core to the build. While still fine in Cyro and will do fine in BG's I'm sure, sadly I can no longer use it when farming IC and sewers due to the change.

OP, forget the naysayers that are thinking inside the tiny box of vet dungeons and trials, I think the idea of 'fun' builds are lost on them.

Elusiin · June 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

Ice reach could get the taunt, and you can choose when to use it (if at all). Putting it on a heavy attack was a bad idea.

Was one of the best ideas they have. Magtanks taunt+recover magicka from heavy attack? Yea it's bad because you don't know how to use it.

No, it's bad because Morrowind update almost forces you to have to heavy attack to keep your resources up, also that's the only way to get, the only thing that sets ice staff apart from fire or lightning staff, the damage shield. Throwing a taunt on forces any non-tank ice staff user to miss out on a beneficial passive(the damage shield on heavy attack) just to avoid pulling aggro in PvE. I'm sorry you can't see how this is a problem. Not everyone plays META. - -"

Shadow_Viper_vX · June 2017

It's Fine, Learn to Play

Adapt and Overcome

No change is needed

This is a non-issue

Stop asking for things to be removed from the game, spend some time and effort on learning the game. The more you know about the game the easier it will be for you to adapt to and overcome challenges you encounter.

Elusiin · June 2017

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

It's Fine, Learn to Play

Adapt and Overcome

No change is needed

This is a non-issue

Stop asking for things to be removed from the game, spend some time and effort on learning the game. The more you know about the game the easier it will be for you to adapt to and overcome challenges you encounter.

I've been playing for roughly 2 years now, on ps4 and now pc. I think I understand the base mechanics, and I had an Ice Mage DPS with winterborn pre-morrowind that excelled in PvE. It is an issue. REVISION of the new change is needed.

Kneighbors · June 2017

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

Ice reach could get the taunt, and you can choose when to use it (if at all). Putting it on a heavy attack was a bad idea.

Was one of the best ideas they have. Magtanks taunt+recover magicka from heavy attack? Yea it's bad because you don't know how to use it.

No, it's bad because Morrowind update almost forces you to have to heavy attack to keep your resources up, also that's the only way to get, the only thing that sets ice staff apart from fire or lightning staff, the damage shield. Throwing a taunt on forces any non-tank ice staff user to miss out on a beneficial passive(the damage shield on heavy attack) just to avoid pulling aggro in PvE. I'm sorry you can't see how this is a problem. Not everyone plays META. - -"

Healer doesn't requires ice staff heavy attack to defend himself. If he can't heal/shield himself through damage or avoid it he is really far from META and much closer to the lower end of the scale. You don't want a heal in your team who spams heavy attacks for own survival.

Changine the game for many vital builds in order that one guy will be able to role-play? No, thanks.

Elusiin · June 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Healer doesn't requires ice staff heavy attack to defend himself. If he can't heal/shield himself through damage or avoid it he is really far from META and much closer to the lower end of the scale. You don't want a heal in your team who spams heavy attacks for own survival.

Healers have to heavy attack for resource return, to use the skills that heal you... That may be your opinion of meta, but I disagree and can see it being viable.

Kneighbors wrote: »

Changine the game for many vital builds in order that one guy will be able to role-play? No, thanks.

Lol it's not one guy, just as it wasn't one guy that was upset over the changes to resource management, another system that existed pre-morrowind, and while some of those changes were necessary to make the game fun, this heavy attack ice staff taunt is not.This is an unnecessary restriction where the taunt could easily be moved to a different skill, or the passive isolated so that it doesn't effect a large population of players who use ice staff on their dps or healer.

Peekachu99 · June 2017

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

So what's the point of light armor dps proc sets like Winterborn, or frost damage passive on Warden if we can't use the ice staff?... Please @ZOS_AmeliaR, liberate us from this nightmare passive... The blocking change was awesome, but this taunt is a curse to PvE...

Justiciar wrote: »

This seems to be a mountain out of a mole hill. The solution is: don't use a frost staff if you're not tanking.

Yeah, but we finally got a ice magic skill line... And I know I'm not alone in having a dps winterborn mage using ice destro pre-morrowind...

Winterborn has a snare, snares are for CC and tanking (except in PVP, where taunts are ignored and aggro is free). What's the issue exactly? You're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and complaining it doesn't fit.

Frost staff tanking is here to stay and it's awesome. Start tanking, stick to PVP or use a different weapon. The end.

Elusiin · June 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

So what's the point of light armor dps proc sets like Winterborn, or frost damage passive on Warden if we can't use the ice staff?... Please @ZOS_AmeliaR, liberate us from this nightmare passive... The blocking change was awesome, but this taunt is a curse to PvE...

Justiciar wrote: »

This seems to be a mountain out of a mole hill. The solution is: don't use a frost staff if you're not tanking.

Yeah, but we finally got a ice magic skill line... And I know I'm not alone in having a dps winterborn mage using ice destro pre-morrowind...

Winterborn has a snare, snares are for CC and tanking (except in PVP, where taunts are ignored and aggro is free). What's the issue exactly? You're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and complaining it doesn't fit.

Frost staff tanking is here to stay and it's awesome. Start tanking, stick to PVP or use a different weapon. The end.

Frost staff tanking is awesome, I love it; however, the taunt has to be optional, it ruins multiple playstyles and setups. I'm sorry you can't see that.

Stannum · June 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

1. It looks for me that using Frost for DPS is allways DPS loss (fire gives 8% to all singl target dmg, Lightning - all AoE, frost gives nothing)
2. Do not open first destro passive, and have no taunt.
3. Really Frost destro taunt on heavies is not usefull for tanking (as while you are charging you are vulnerable). I wish it were frost option on ele drain skill, that would be really great for frost tanking.

Wow it's good to know after I passed 95% of game content with Ice staff tanking. So is it not useful or you don't know how to tank? Exposed to what exactly? If your build can't take damage for 3 seconds in vet content of the game I feel really sorry for you. You must have totally misunderstood the concept of tanking if you think you must stay behind shield 24/7

Ok if you do not understend it, i'll explain:
Any other taunt you can use instant and in any situation.
When you tank you should keep taunt all the time. So when your taunt is expiring you should begin to charge heavy 3 sec earlier. If boss will charge any special hard attacks or CC you should drop charging heavy and block or interrupt. During that time taunt expires. If any other group member catches aggro he can be also killed while you charging heavy. You can do so but it's unreliable and inefficient. Tank should be able to keep taunt instantly and while blocking. So if you want to be reliable tank you'll need inner fire (it's not free but it's reliable) and if you re really good tank you should understand how to sustain to have resources for inner fire any time you need. As for frost taunting the best way to make it reliable and usefull - put it on active instant skill (ele drain ideal as it's good debuff tank can keep).

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

Remove it yourself. Respec and leave points out of Tri-Focus.

Problem solved. /thread

Kneighbors · June 2017

Stannum wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

1. It looks for me that using Frost for DPS is allways DPS loss (fire gives 8% to all singl target dmg, Lightning - all AoE, frost gives nothing)
2. Do not open first destro passive, and have no taunt.
3. Really Frost destro taunt on heavies is not usefull for tanking (as while you are charging you are vulnerable). I wish it were frost option on ele drain skill, that would be really great for frost tanking.

Wow it's good to know after I passed 95% of game content with Ice staff tanking. So is it not useful or you don't know how to tank? Exposed to what exactly? If your build can't take damage for 3 seconds in vet content of the game I feel really sorry for you. You must have totally misunderstood the concept of tanking if you think you must stay behind shield 24/7

Ok if you do not understend it, i'll explain:
Any other taunt you can use instant and in any situation.
When you tank you should keep taunt all the time. So when your taunt is expiring you should begin to charge heavy 3 sec earlier. If boss will charge any special hard attacks or CC you should drop charging heavy and block or interrupt. During that time taunt expires. If any other group member catches aggro he can be also killed while you charging heavy. You can do so but it's unreliable and inefficient. Tank should be able to keep taunt instantly and while blocking. So if you want to be reliable tank you'll need inner fire (it's not free but it's reliable) and if you re really good tank you should understand how to sustain to have resources for inner fire any time you need. As for frost taunting the best way to make it reliable and usefull - put it on active instant skill (ele drain ideal as it's good debuff tank can keep).

Boss is not to be taunt by Ice staff. Tank need to always "puncture" the boss with sword to apply major breach and keep controlling the boss. Ice staff heavy is much better than skill taunt. Ele drain is a skill of heal and dps, not that many tanks running with destro staff.

I seriously see no problem. Ice staff isn't for dps, it's a feature of the game and many people like that purpose. Fire and lightning sound like more damage than Ice, while Ice shield sounds like more defence than fire or lightning. Everything is making sense and I don't think we have to mix these things.

Last point: Ice CC is most powerful CC in the game (with proper morph). You don't want every second guy in PvP use that one. Ice staff is ideal in its current state. Yea, it's restricted for tanking, don't take it as dd or heal. Want to use Ice staff? Make tank build!

Spottswoode · June 2017

Why in God's name would a DPS use an ice staff to begin with? Even Warden DPS works better with the animal tree.

Muttsmutt · June 2017

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

dps ice staff is not real
healer ice staff what is this even lol, just swap weapons and use the resto HA like you should be

i run ice on my healer back bar and have had a total of 0 accidental taunts, maybe because i'm not a complete pincushion and realize which bar i'm on

remove ice staff taunts = kill any non-stamine tanks = kill build diversity for tanks [which honestly is already very limited, let's be honest, magicka tanks are just a pipe dream]

Stannum · June 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

1. It looks for me that using Frost for DPS is allways DPS loss (fire gives 8% to all singl target dmg, Lightning - all AoE, frost gives nothing)
2. Do not open first destro passive, and have no taunt.
3. Really Frost destro taunt on heavies is not usefull for tanking (as while you are charging you are vulnerable). I wish it were frost option on ele drain skill, that would be really great for frost tanking.

Wow it's good to know after I passed 95% of game content with Ice staff tanking. So is it not useful or you don't know how to tank? Exposed to what exactly? If your build can't take damage for 3 seconds in vet content of the game I feel really sorry for you. You must have totally misunderstood the concept of tanking if you think you must stay behind shield 24/7

Ok if you do not understend it, i'll explain:
Any other taunt you can use instant and in any situation.
When you tank you should keep taunt all the time. So when your taunt is expiring you should begin to charge heavy 3 sec earlier. If boss will charge any special hard attacks or CC you should drop charging heavy and block or interrupt. During that time taunt expires. If any other group member catches aggro he can be also killed while you charging heavy. You can do so but it's unreliable and inefficient. Tank should be able to keep taunt instantly and while blocking. So if you want to be reliable tank you'll need inner fire (it's not free but it's reliable) and if you re really good tank you should understand how to sustain to have resources for inner fire any time you need. As for frost taunting the best way to make it reliable and usefull - put it on active instant skill (ele drain ideal as it's good debuff tank can keep).

Boss is not to be taunt by Ice staff. Tank need to always "puncture" the boss with sword to apply major breach and keep controlling the boss. Ice staff heavy is much better than skill taunt. Ele drain is a skill of heal and dps, not that many tanks running with destro staff.

You told

I passed 95% of game content with Ice staff tanking.

And we are talking of ice staff tanking. So where have you found "puncture" on your ice staff skill. And how have you done Ice staff tanking without destro staff?

I used to tank with ice staff on stam NB and on stam warden. They were using magicka for blocking only and mostly using stamina build. As you go with ice staff you have no puncture. NB can keep same debuff using surprise atack, Warden using Subterranean Assault.
Ice staff gives you very interesting resourse management as your stam regen is not affected by blocking so you can atack with you stamina skills all the time make lot of bashing and rolldodging if you need. And you can get part of magicka back with magickasteal (another part NB gets with siphoning, warden with netch or healing passive). So you can make signific investment to DPS.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2017

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

Pretty much what they wrote.
It's not that ICE was nerfed or that it was ever better than Fire or Lightning.
And the way combat works, it didn't provide any dps benefits over the other two.

Now the undaunted taunt.....inner fire requires magic.
Waaaay different than requiring a heavy attack so it's not correct to suggest (comment towards the OP) that because there is a ranged resource driven taunt that a weapon driven taunt shouldn't exist.

There are three different taunts now
-Stamina taunt (under sword and shield with 2 morphs)
-Magic taunt (under undaunted with 2 morphs)
-Heavy attack taunt (under destruction staff passive, with no morph as itsnot a slotted skill)

The reason it's an important addition is because many tanks off bar was a ranged weapon but they didn't need to drop a skill to add a new taunt so this way, it allows tanks who may want to slot a resourceor debuff to their target under the destruction staff line to do so, or who may want to add some dps in their buildto do so without sacrifice.

And ICE weapon attacks visually suggest tanking intent whereas lightnight suggest aoe dps and fire suggests single target dps and healing staff....well you get it.

So while many have issues with it, technically it makes sense to add variety and wouldn't make sense for any other ice staff reason cause ZOS doesn't allow CC in a meaningful way because attacks remove most CC but slowing effects aligns with what some Timothy players would describe as a tanks role

Zvorgin · June 2017

One of the destro skills should be a taunt with Ice Staff equipped. Putting taunt on the heavy attack is lazy by Zos.

Zvorgin · June 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

Ice reach could get the taunt, and you can choose when to use it (if at all). Putting it on a heavy attack was a bad idea.

Was one of the best ideas they have. Magtanks taunt+recover magicka from heavy attack? Yea it's bad because you don't know how to use it.

Not every ICE staff user wants to taunt but they all need heavy attack for resources. Not every ICE staff user is a tank.

Spottswoode · June 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

Ice reach could get the taunt, and you can choose when to use it (if at all). Putting it on a heavy attack was a bad idea.

Was one of the best ideas they have. Magtanks taunt+recover magicka from heavy attack? Yea it's bad because you don't know how to use it.

Not every ICE staff user wants to taunt but they all need heavy attack for resources. Not every ICE staff user is a tank.

For literally every other non tank use of a destro staff, ice staff is the worst choice. Even if I gave you blocking, (and I won't because blocking with resto staff is better anyway) it still doesn't hold much water.

Tasear · June 2017

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

We already have a ranged taunt in the undaunted skill line... All this does is kill off dps Ice Staff and healer Ice Staff for PvE... -_-

Considering Ice has been completely reworked as a tanking set up, this suggestion is ridiculous. It'd be like complaining that 1H&S has a taunt and doesn't do enough damage. If you want to deal damage, why would you not just use Fire or Lightning Destro?

The problem is that the taunt pulls aggro from the tank in parties. So as a healer, I like defensive options to keep myself alive while healing. The ice staff was a solution to this, allowing me to actually block hard cc/damaging abilities... However, I can't my mana resources back with heavy attacks, or I pull the boss to me... That's ridiculous and frustrating. Sword and board doesn't taunt on a heavy attack, I don't get where you got that from? Heavy attacks are necessary for sustain, especially now in morrowind. The taunt has to go!

Use a defending staff, rework your cp, there's potions you can make that give 5k restiances, then again use a shield, did I mention rework your cp, cause something is off.

Tasear · June 2017

I seen some frost tanks it's not bad just nobody realeased a build yet.

Stannum · June 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

There are three different taunts now
-Stamina taunt (under sword and shield with 2 morphs)
-Magic taunt (under undaunted with 2 morphs)
-Heavy attack taunt (under destruction staff passive, with no morph as itsnot a slotted skill)

Nope, undaunted taunt has both stamina and magika morph so it's sutable for any build

ANGEL_BtVS · June 2017

Not sure how viable it would be, but perhaps they could make one of the skills in the ice line have one morph that changes heavy attacks to taunt (so off tanks will be happy) while the other morph adds a bonus to ice dps (this would remove it from the passives line so that all passives are available to all players). I'm in the camp that would love to see ice dps builds become viable. Not sure why some act like it's crazy talk - there are enemies in this game that will wreck you with their ice dps, some players would like to be able to do the same.

Elusiin · June 2017

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Not sure how viable it would be, but perhaps they could make one of the skills in the ice line have one morph that changes heavy attacks to taunt (so off tanks will be happy) while the other morph adds a bonus to ice dps (this would remove it from the passives line so that all passives are available to all players). I'm in the camp that would love to see ice dps builds become viable. Not sure why some act like it's crazy talk - there are enemies in this game that will wreck you with their ice dps, some players would like to be able to do the same.

That would work for me haha... I wish other players commenting here could see the perspective of those who don't always run meta builds. Ice Staff DPS and back bar for healer is a thing, again taunt needs removed.

Betsararie · June 2017

If you use an ice staff and you're not tanking you deserve to be booted

DO NOT use an ice staff if you're not tanking. Most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

And even then, tanking with an ice staff is inferior to SnB. Ice staff tanking is trash.

Avalon · June 2017

As a Healer/Support, I am a strong advocate for CC methods. I can easily see a frost staff being a great boon, as it helps keep all the enemies in one place, and probably focused on the tank.

Oakmontowls_ESO · June 2017

What if instead of moving taunt off of ice heavy attacks we instead change how taunt works. Taunt would no longer just overwrite the last one and instead the player who has the greater max health who uses the taunt will get the aggro. This would insure that only frost tanks get aggro from bosses that are taunted.

SFDB · June 2017

I'm looking forward to the coming changes where dual wielding swords will stop being increased power; instead its heavy attack gives you five seconds of Minor Mending.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2017

Stannum wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

There are three different taunts now
-Stamina taunt (under sword and shield with 2 morphs)
-Magic taunt (under undaunted with 2 morphs)
-Heavy attack taunt (under destruction staff passive, with no morph as itsnot a slotted skill)

Nope, undaunted taunt has both stamina and magika morph so it's sutable for any build

Works just fine for my magic Templar. Maybe it's a bad build