oh no not another anti-animation cancel thread

Galwylin · May 2017

Malic wrote: »

I think the real question is why would developers create an animation for a skill if it could be cancelled?

Superior intelligence? (my guess)

Oh, that ones mine too. I sort of don't really care but I do think it makes actually cancelling an ability more difficult. At least for me. There's been more than a few frags left my hands when I meant curse.

Sheey · May 2017

Lets make blocking cost stamina and magica. And double poison to 60% again. Seems like a lot of players complaining about good mechanics - lets make it harder then.

MehrunesFlagon · May 2017

Sheey wrote: »

Lets make blocking cost stamina and magica. And double poison to 60% again. Seems like a lot of players complaining about good mechanics - lets make it harder then.

Hell no.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

LiquidPony · May 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

TalonKnight · May 2017

AC is 1 of the games biggest jokes, ZOS tried to implement a game that didn't need cast bars, and other visual UI q's for people to notice what is coming at them so that the player would know when to block or interrupt.

The animation in its self is the q, so if the animation can be skipped, and ZOS has no intention on fixing this ridiculous feature, then they need to add in cast bars so in pvp we can at least have an idea what our opponent is doing so that we can react accordingly....

To all you people in pvp that animation cancel, you are either trying to keep up with the other exploiters that do this, or your just to darn crapy of a player to play the game as intended.

And to ZOS if a bug is a feature, then you should stop banning all those that (use) that so called feature ie. broken trials, dupes of old, and all others.

the_broo11 · May 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

Linaleah · May 2017

the_broo11 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

global cooldown is still a thing. an animation that lasts for the duration of a global cooldown is still an animation. pretty much every other game on the market does it this way.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

not according to all the guides to animation canceling that I have watched and read. and i didn't decide to call it anything, its what its know as in the rest of the world. and i wouldn't want ability to cancel a cast to perform another action be removed either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

if you want to do well - it is. and I'm reasonably sure that DLC vet dungeons/trials absolutely require it, or at least strongly encourage it, given dps requirements. not just to score. to be able to finish.

idk · May 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

DLC dungeons and vMA don't require AC to score well and probably not a good idea with Morrowind change other than weaving light attacks. Skill is what matters most and few, if any, 500k+ vMA scores had ani-canceling of abilities with an activation time.

All skills have a set time that must pass for the skill to fire. Activates skills have a longer time associated with it.

But no one is getting past the time each skill requires.

LiquidPony · May 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

global cooldown is still a thing. an animation that lasts for the duration of a global cooldown is still an animation. pretty much every other game on the market does it this way.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

not according to all the guides to animation canceling that I have watched and read. and i didn't decide to call it anything, its what its know as in the rest of the world. and i wouldn't want ability to cancel a cast to perform another action be removed either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

if you want to do well - it is. and I'm reasonably sure that DLC vet dungeons/trials absolutely require it, or at least strongly encourage it, given dps requirements. not just to score. to be able to finish.

@Linaleah

I suspect you are watching/reading outdated guides, then.

https://youtu.be/6vH7qg2HPE8?t=635

Arguably one of the best DPS in the game, from arguably the best raid guild in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

https://youtu.be/oJgOzYgBskA?t=1202

Arguably the best Maelstrom player in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

There are a handful of abilities that may benefit from "animation canceling" if the length of the animation exceeds the GCD, but those are few and far between and doing so is entirely unnecessary to complete any content in the game.

JackDaniell · May 2017

Ok this is for you who think ani cancelling has no place in this game, let's pretend thy removed it. So now you get to cast once skill per global cool down.

ESO is an action/reaction based combat system, and now we get to be as responsive as the gcd let's us. That means you only have to be as fast as the gcd (.6 sec) for every combat integration in the game. The system would feel clunky and like you have poor control over your skill timing. You would not be able to time an attack on hit an opponent that is trying to avoid it unless you just waited and did nothing. No light or heavy attack into a skill for a quick burst of damage. No weaves to proc the bevy of skills that function off light / heavy attack usage.

Ani cancelling smothens the game up and it's SO EASY TO LEARN! Simply put:
Light or heavy attack > skill of choice > block (block cancels your skill cast making it hit your target a bit faster)

You are able to do all three things in the gcd thanks to animation canceling, and you can charge your heavy as long as you need to until you see the right moment to attack. Can you imagine how stale PvP would be with no cancels? Just people standing, casting one skill every .6 seconds wIth little to no timing involved.

And finally if you absolutely must not learn the simple skills of animation cancelling zeni saved you anyway, just put on some proc sets and they can do all the cancels for you!

Tldr: this games combat would be *** without cancels. More boring and stale then skyrim.

idk · May 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Animation canncelling should go instead of having sustain nerf!

Not really. The game would be even more clunky and apear more like a turn based game.

The bulk of animation canceling is merely weaving basic attacks and helps make for more fluid combat vs MMOs like SWTOR and I suppose WoW has.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · May 2017

I just find it really funny when people say that having a real, absolute .6s GCD would make the game feel slow and clunky. 1s GCD is considered reasonably fast by most other game's standards, is everyone who plays this game at the highest level a speedrunner or something?

And again, it makes sense to be able to interrupt the animation in certain situations, like to block or dodge. But, that action should effectively reset your gcd and negate the damage that was going to be done by the previous ability. That, in my head, just makes a lot of sense.

Strider_Roshin · May 2017

Bramir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS really needs to discuss animation cancelling in the tutorial.

Maybe then we'll get less whining from players lacking the talent to perform such a simple mechanic.

Afraid someone is going to take away your
game mechanic ?

There, I fixed it for you.

And no I'm not. Just like dodge rolling, blocking, CC breaking, etc. You can either learn it or not, and blame the devs, players, etc. When in all actuality it's due to your own inadequacy.

Animations should be tied to the conclusion of the skill. I want to see characters move like they are actually doing what they are doing.

And, if something has a cast time, it should have a cast time...animation cancelling basically double-dips your ping advantage, if you have one.

Heavy Attacks shouldn't restore resources, they should spend them. Stam regen shouldn't disappear while sneaking or sprinting. And heavy armor shouldn't give you additional damage when you get hit, but it does.

Don't like the game's mechanics? Play a different game.

Linaleah · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

global cooldown is still a thing. an animation that lasts for the duration of a global cooldown is still an animation. pretty much every other game on the market does it this way.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

not according to all the guides to animation canceling that I have watched and read. and i didn't decide to call it anything, its what its know as in the rest of the world. and i wouldn't want ability to cancel a cast to perform another action be removed either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

if you want to do well - it is. and I'm reasonably sure that DLC vet dungeons/trials absolutely require it, or at least strongly encourage it, given dps requirements. not just to score. to be able to finish.

@Linaleah

I suspect you are watching/reading outdated guides, then.

https://youtu.be/6vH7qg2HPE8?t=635

Arguably one of the best DPS in the game, from arguably the best raid guild in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

https://youtu.be/oJgOzYgBskA?t=1202

Arguably the best Maelstrom player in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

There are a handful of abilities that may benefit from "animation canceling" if the length of the animation exceeds the GCD, but those are few and far between and doing so is entirely unnecessary to complete any content in the game.

no, I suspect that you are STILL misunderstanding.

http://thereapersesoguild.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11137882&gid=0&sso=1496261419

or a more recent one https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5fk3nm/animation_canceling_explained/

what they are doing is canceling a visual cue of an animation to add more attacks (weaving in light attacks as you put it) in order to increase dps. what they are NOT doing is canceling abilities from firing all together. ergo. they are decreasing cast times of abilities. but since by all claims they are not actualy decreasing cast times of abilities to below of their actual cast times? they are merely shortening the animations for them. which you call "interesting" and I call "glitchy combat where animations and ability cast times are 2 different things, but can only be exploited by twitchy people with very good ping" the fact that some of the game is now balanced around dps that is only possible with this... nonsense? is i'm sorry, NOT a good thing

Fusiondk · May 2017

It's not the threads that crack me up but the people in them. Three types:

Anti Cancel: usually can't do it putting them at a disadvantage regardless of reason , especially in pvp.

Pro Cancel: can do it giving them the advantage over the aforementioned, usually using adolescent acronyms like l2p or some other edgelord remark...again pvp.

Doesn't really care but not disillusioned: like me if it's here and required to min/max whatever. If it's not hear you'll be animation locked like any other game.

Here is what is really funny. About 85% of ESO players are terrible at basic concepts and mechanics. I mean the astounding amount of uneducated players to basic mechanics is astounding. Running away from the tank with adds....pulling seriously and painfully low having nothing to do with weaving or animation cancelling. I can't speak much on PvP because I'm a PvE player.

What really gets me is when I CP 800-900 players join a vet dungeon, wipe or get lost and without a word or question just leaves. And I can picture him queueing everyday wondering if miraculously he will somehow be gifted with the knowledge by hitting the F key.

TL;DR- regardless of how stupid animation cancelling is I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is not your problem....

LiquidPony · May 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

global cooldown is still a thing. an animation that lasts for the duration of a global cooldown is still an animation. pretty much every other game on the market does it this way.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

not according to all the guides to animation canceling that I have watched and read. and i didn't decide to call it anything, its what its know as in the rest of the world. and i wouldn't want ability to cancel a cast to perform another action be removed either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

if you want to do well - it is. and I'm reasonably sure that DLC vet dungeons/trials absolutely require it, or at least strongly encourage it, given dps requirements. not just to score. to be able to finish.

@Linaleah

I suspect you are watching/reading outdated guides, then.

https://youtu.be/6vH7qg2HPE8?t=635

Arguably one of the best DPS in the game, from arguably the best raid guild in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

https://youtu.be/oJgOzYgBskA?t=1202

Arguably the best Maelstrom player in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

There are a handful of abilities that may benefit from "animation canceling" if the length of the animation exceeds the GCD, but those are few and far between and doing so is entirely unnecessary to complete any content in the game.

no, I suspect that you are STILL misunderstanding.

http://thereapersesoguild.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11137882&gid=0&sso=1496261419

or a more recent one https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5fk3nm/animation_canceling_explained/

what they are doing is canceling a visual cue of an animation to add more attacks (weaving in light attacks as you put it) in order to increase dps. what they are NOT doing is canceling abilities from firing all together. ergo. they are decreasing cast times of abilities. but since by all claims they are not actualy decreasing cast times of abilities to below of their actual cast times? they are merely shortening the animations for them. which you call "interesting" and I call "glitchy combat where animations and ability cast times are 2 different things, but can only be exploited by twitchy people with very good ping" the fact that some of the game is now balanced around dps that is only possible with this... nonsense? is i'm sorry, NOT a good thing

@Linaleah

I didn't call anything "interesting." You are mixing up conversations.

And as I suspected, your first link is outdated and irrelevant. Block canceling abilities is no longer advantageous in the vast majority of situations, in PvE. And if you actually watch Alcast's video, he's just light attack weaving and swap canceling.

Your statement that "they are decreasing cast time of abilities" is incorrect. The only thing being decreased is the downtime between skills.

Light attack weaving: the full animation of a light attack is canceled by casting an ability. This does not cause your light attack to hit any faster, it just means that you don't have to wait for the full animation to complete before casting an ability.

Swap canceling: the full animation of an ability is canceled by swapping bars. This does not cause your ability to hit any faster, it just means that you utilize the GCD to switch weapons rather than standing around with your thumb up your you-know-what.

So, for instance, on a magsorc you'd utilize animation canceling as follows in the standard rotation:

Light Attack-->Haunting Curse-->Light Attack-->Liquid Lightning-->Light Attack-->Blockade-->Bar Swap-->Light Attack-->Force Pulse ... ... Light Attack-->Force Pulse-->Bar Swap ... ... and so on and so forth.

So what you're doing is getting a light attack and an ability in on the same "GCD" since LA's use a different cooldown, and then you're getting to your next ability faster by bar swapping during the GCD.

It's like mixing jabs into a combo in boxing. The APM is still really low. It's also pretty easy to do, it just takes a few minutes of practice to get comfortable with, and after that point it's very rhythmic. It's not like we're playing Starcraft or something here and you need 200 APM to be competitive.

Linaleah · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

global cooldown is still a thing. an animation that lasts for the duration of a global cooldown is still an animation. pretty much every other game on the market does it this way.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

not according to all the guides to animation canceling that I have watched and read. and i didn't decide to call it anything, its what its know as in the rest of the world. and i wouldn't want ability to cancel a cast to perform another action be removed either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

if you want to do well - it is. and I'm reasonably sure that DLC vet dungeons/trials absolutely require it, or at least strongly encourage it, given dps requirements. not just to score. to be able to finish.

@Linaleah

I suspect you are watching/reading outdated guides, then.

https://youtu.be/6vH7qg2HPE8?t=635

Arguably one of the best DPS in the game, from arguably the best raid guild in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

https://youtu.be/oJgOzYgBskA?t=1202

Arguably the best Maelstrom player in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

There are a handful of abilities that may benefit from "animation canceling" if the length of the animation exceeds the GCD, but those are few and far between and doing so is entirely unnecessary to complete any content in the game.

no, I suspect that you are STILL misunderstanding.

http://thereapersesoguild.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11137882&gid=0&sso=1496261419

or a more recent one https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5fk3nm/animation_canceling_explained/

what they are doing is canceling a visual cue of an animation to add more attacks (weaving in light attacks as you put it) in order to increase dps. what they are NOT doing is canceling abilities from firing all together. ergo. they are decreasing cast times of abilities. but since by all claims they are not actualy decreasing cast times of abilities to below of their actual cast times? they are merely shortening the animations for them. which you call "interesting" and I call "glitchy combat where animations and ability cast times are 2 different things, but can only be exploited by twitchy people with very good ping" the fact that some of the game is now balanced around dps that is only possible with this... nonsense? is i'm sorry, NOT a good thing

@Linaleah

I didn't call anything "interesting." You are mixing up conversations.

And as I suspected, your first link is outdated and irrelevant. Block canceling abilities is no longer advantageous in the vast majority of situations, in PvE. And if you actually watch Alcast's video, he's just light attack weaving and swap canceling.

Your statement that "they are decreasing cast time of abilities" is incorrect. The only thing being decreased is the downtime between skills.

Light attack weaving: the full animation of a light attack is canceled by casting an ability. This does not cause your light attack to hit any faster, it just means that you don't have to wait for the full animation to complete before casting an ability.

Swap canceling: the full animation of an ability is canceled by swapping bars. This does not cause your ability to hit any faster, it just means that you utilize the GCD to switch weapons rather than standing around with your thumb up your you-know-what.

So, for instance, on a magsorc you'd utilize animation canceling as follows in the standard rotation:

Light Attack-->Haunting Curse-->Light Attack-->Liquid Lightning-->Light Attack-->Blockade-->Bar Swap-->Light Attack-->Force Pulse ... ... Light Attack-->Force Pulse-->Bar Swap ... ... and so on and so forth.

So what you're doing is getting a light attack and an ability in on the same "GCD" since LA's use a different cooldown, and then you're getting to your next ability faster by bar swapping during the GCD.

It's like mixing jabs into a combo in boxing. The APM is still really low. It's also pretty easy to do, it just takes a few minutes of practice to get comfortable with, and after that point it's very rhythmic. It's not like we're playing Starcraft or something here and you need 200 APM to be competitive.

1. read what i said. animation canceling does NOT decrease cast times of abilities. it decreases ANIMATION duration, while keeping cast times the same. which is why I keep proposing that they just get on with it and SHORTEN THE DAMN STOCK ANIMATIONS.
2. my first link talks about variety of ways to animation cancel, including weaving. and links among other things to weaving video from allcast. but even then - second link is a 6 month old video from allcast himself as well, linked by him on reddit.
3. with my ping, that little progression you have written never quite works like that. with shortening animations so that you do not have to cancel them and instead having animation time correspond to cast time/global cd - that little progression still works for you, but now it also works for me and everyone else.
4. you assumption that mastering animation canceling takes few minutes is utterly hysterically funny.

in conclusion. animation canceling is what players came up with to FIX the disparity between cast times and visual cues. fixing visual cues will fix cast times for everyone, instead of just those with good ping and reflexes of a 12 year old.

JinMori · May 2017

Ok, animation cancelling is there, to use it or not is your decision, it's really not that hard do learn.

second, it will not be removed, because there are priorities on animations, block/rolldodge etc take priority on everything else, without it the game combat would feel slow, and it would actually be more frustrating then now.

Imagine, someone is charging an attack, and you can't counter it, because you are hitting a light attack, well good luck taking full damage without any possibility of countering that attack.

Animation cancelling is a good addition to the game, even though it probably wasn't intended, it's a by product of coding, and basically every game has some kind of it.

GET OVER IT, learn how to use it, or stay behind other people because of your "immersion".

JinMori · May 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

global cooldown is still a thing. an animation that lasts for the duration of a global cooldown is still an animation. pretty much every other game on the market does it this way.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

not according to all the guides to animation canceling that I have watched and read. and i didn't decide to call it anything, its what its know as in the rest of the world. and i wouldn't want ability to cancel a cast to perform another action be removed either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

if you want to do well - it is. and I'm reasonably sure that DLC vet dungeons/trials absolutely require it, or at least strongly encourage it, given dps requirements. not just to score. to be able to finish.

@Linaleah

I suspect you are watching/reading outdated guides, then.

https://youtu.be/6vH7qg2HPE8?t=635

Arguably one of the best DPS in the game, from arguably the best raid guild in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

https://youtu.be/oJgOzYgBskA?t=1202

Arguably the best Maelstrom player in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

There are a handful of abilities that may benefit from "animation canceling" if the length of the animation exceeds the GCD, but those are few and far between and doing so is entirely unnecessary to complete any content in the game.

no, I suspect that you are STILL misunderstanding.

http://thereapersesoguild.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11137882&gid=0&sso=1496261419

or a more recent one https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5fk3nm/animation_canceling_explained/

what they are doing is canceling a visual cue of an animation to add more attacks (weaving in light attacks as you put it) in order to increase dps. what they are NOT doing is canceling abilities from firing all together. ergo. they are decreasing cast times of abilities. but since by all claims they are not actualy decreasing cast times of abilities to below of their actual cast times? they are merely shortening the animations for them. which you call "interesting" and I call "glitchy combat where animations and ability cast times are 2 different things, but can only be exploited by twitchy people with very good ping" the fact that some of the game is now balanced around dps that is only possible with this... nonsense? is i'm sorry, NOT a good thing

@Linaleah

I didn't call anything "interesting." You are mixing up conversations.

And as I suspected, your first link is outdated and irrelevant. Block canceling abilities is no longer advantageous in the vast majority of situations, in PvE. And if you actually watch Alcast's video, he's just light attack weaving and swap canceling.

Your statement that "they are decreasing cast time of abilities" is incorrect. The only thing being decreased is the downtime between skills.

Light attack weaving: the full animation of a light attack is canceled by casting an ability. This does not cause your light attack to hit any faster, it just means that you don't have to wait for the full animation to complete before casting an ability.

Swap canceling: the full animation of an ability is canceled by swapping bars. This does not cause your ability to hit any faster, it just means that you utilize the GCD to switch weapons rather than standing around with your thumb up your you-know-what.

So, for instance, on a magsorc you'd utilize animation canceling as follows in the standard rotation:

Light Attack-->Haunting Curse-->Light Attack-->Liquid Lightning-->Light Attack-->Blockade-->Bar Swap-->Light Attack-->Force Pulse ... ... Light Attack-->Force Pulse-->Bar Swap ... ... and so on and so forth.

So what you're doing is getting a light attack and an ability in on the same "GCD" since LA's use a different cooldown, and then you're getting to your next ability faster by bar swapping during the GCD.

It's like mixing jabs into a combo in boxing. The APM is still really low. It's also pretty easy to do, it just takes a few minutes of practice to get comfortable with, and after that point it's very rhythmic. It's not like we're playing Starcraft or something here and you need 200 APM to be competitive.

1. read what i said. animation canceling does NOT decrease cast times of abilities. it decreases ANIMATION duration, while keeping cast times the same. which is why I keep proposing that they just get on with it and SHORTEN THE DAMN STOCK ANIMATIONS.
2. my first link talks about variety of ways to animation cancel, including weaving. and links among other things to weaving video from allcast. but even then - second link is a 6 month old video from allcast himself as well, linked by him on reddit.
3. with my ping, that little progression you have written never quite works like that. with shortening animations so that you do not have to cancel them and instead having animation time correspond to cast time/global cd - that little progression still works for you, but now it also works for me and everyone else.
4. you assumption that mastering animation canceling takes few minutes is utterly hysterically funny.

in conclusion. animation canceling is what players came up with to FIX the disparity between cast times and visual cues. fixing visual cues will fix cast times for everyone, instead of just those with good ping and reflexes of a 12 year old.

Animation cancelling reduces the animation time of that ability, but there's still the global cooldown, you do the same damage by doing:

light attack>Ability, light attack>ability>block cancel>repeat.

Animation cancelling is more useful in pvp then pve, because it allows you to squish more burst, and with those unkillable tanks, i assure you, you wanna get as much burst as possible.

A few minutes to lean i agree is an understatement, it took me 2 days to learn all the basics, no excuses, it's easy, and no i don't have the best ping, around 170 with some dips and sometimes if i'm lucky i can get to 80, very rarely.

LiquidPony · May 2017

Linaleah wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the_broo11 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

But what about instant cast abilities? Implementing your suggestion (shorten animations to match cast time) is effectively saying that there should be no animations for these types of abilities. I don't think that this would please the non-AC community.

global cooldown is still a thing. an animation that lasts for the duration of a global cooldown is still an animation. pretty much every other game on the market does it this way.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Where have you been for the past year?

"Animation canceling," at least in the PvE world, is 99.9% limited to what you've decided to call "cast canceling." No one block-cancels animations in PvE anymore, or at least, there's no need to do it. Animation canceling in PvE is just light attack weaving and bar-swapping out of Elemental Blockade or Poison Injection or whatever.

not according to all the guides to animation canceling that I have watched and read. and i didn't decide to call it anything, its what its know as in the rest of the world. and i wouldn't want ability to cancel a cast to perform another action be removed either.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

To hard to fix. So its a feature now. Like lag.

Not every unintentional discovery is a bad thing (mmm....penicillin). Yes, it was not intended by the developers, but they have said on many occasions that they like how it makes combat more dynamic and have no intention to change it. The vast majority of competitive players agree with them. If you arent competitive, no biggie. Other then Vet trials, you dont need to animation cancel to complete any content in the game.

maelstrom arena. pvp. DLC vet dungeons.

Are perfect examples of things that dont require AC. 2 of those are admittedly scored, so to be competitive, you should certainly do it, but it is absolutely not required.

if you want to do well - it is. and I'm reasonably sure that DLC vet dungeons/trials absolutely require it, or at least strongly encourage it, given dps requirements. not just to score. to be able to finish.

@Linaleah

I suspect you are watching/reading outdated guides, then.

https://youtu.be/6vH7qg2HPE8?t=635

Arguably one of the best DPS in the game, from arguably the best raid guild in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

https://youtu.be/oJgOzYgBskA?t=1202

Arguably the best Maelstrom player in the game. You see any "animation canceling" there? Or just light attack weaving and swap canceling?

There are a handful of abilities that may benefit from "animation canceling" if the length of the animation exceeds the GCD, but those are few and far between and doing so is entirely unnecessary to complete any content in the game.

no, I suspect that you are STILL misunderstanding.

http://thereapersesoguild.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11137882&gid=0&sso=1496261419

or a more recent one https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5fk3nm/animation_canceling_explained/

what they are doing is canceling a visual cue of an animation to add more attacks (weaving in light attacks as you put it) in order to increase dps. what they are NOT doing is canceling abilities from firing all together. ergo. they are decreasing cast times of abilities. but since by all claims they are not actualy decreasing cast times of abilities to below of their actual cast times? they are merely shortening the animations for them. which you call "interesting" and I call "glitchy combat where animations and ability cast times are 2 different things, but can only be exploited by twitchy people with very good ping" the fact that some of the game is now balanced around dps that is only possible with this... nonsense? is i'm sorry, NOT a good thing

@Linaleah

I didn't call anything "interesting." You are mixing up conversations.

And as I suspected, your first link is outdated and irrelevant. Block canceling abilities is no longer advantageous in the vast majority of situations, in PvE. And if you actually watch Alcast's video, he's just light attack weaving and swap canceling.

Your statement that "they are decreasing cast time of abilities" is incorrect. The only thing being decreased is the downtime between skills.

Light attack weaving: the full animation of a light attack is canceled by casting an ability. This does not cause your light attack to hit any faster, it just means that you don't have to wait for the full animation to complete before casting an ability.

Swap canceling: the full animation of an ability is canceled by swapping bars. This does not cause your ability to hit any faster, it just means that you utilize the GCD to switch weapons rather than standing around with your thumb up your you-know-what.

So, for instance, on a magsorc you'd utilize animation canceling as follows in the standard rotation:

Light Attack-->Haunting Curse-->Light Attack-->Liquid Lightning-->Light Attack-->Blockade-->Bar Swap-->Light Attack-->Force Pulse ... ... Light Attack-->Force Pulse-->Bar Swap ... ... and so on and so forth.

So what you're doing is getting a light attack and an ability in on the same "GCD" since LA's use a different cooldown, and then you're getting to your next ability faster by bar swapping during the GCD.

It's like mixing jabs into a combo in boxing. The APM is still really low. It's also pretty easy to do, it just takes a few minutes of practice to get comfortable with, and after that point it's very rhythmic. It's not like we're playing Starcraft or something here and you need 200 APM to be competitive.

1. read what i said. animation canceling does NOT decrease cast times of abilities. it decreases ANIMATION duration, while keeping cast times the same. which is why I keep proposing that they just get on with it and SHORTEN THE DAMN STOCK ANIMATIONS.
2. my first link talks about variety of ways to animation cancel, including weaving. and links among other things to weaving video from allcast. but even then - second link is a 6 month old video from allcast himself as well, linked by him on reddit.
3. with my ping, that little progression you have written never quite works like that. with shortening animations so that you do not have to cancel them and instead having animation time correspond to cast time/global cd - that little progression still works for you, but now it also works for me and everyone else.
4. you assumption that mastering animation canceling takes few minutes is utterly hysterically funny.

in conclusion. animation canceling is what players came up with to FIX the disparity between cast times and visual cues. fixing visual cues will fix cast times for everyone, instead of just those with good ping and reflexes of a 12 year old.

1. Reducing the times of the animations accomplishes nothing. If you reduce the animation duration of a Light Attack ... you still press the same number of buttons in the same amount of time to execute a light attack weave. The only difference is that the full light attack animation plays. If you reduce the duration of ability animations ... you've still accomplished nothing. You're still going to want to bar-swap immediately after pressing a skill because you can execute the bar swap during the GCD. You have done nothing to change the way the game is played.
2. No idea what your point is here.
3. Sure, blame it on your ping. Maybe your controller/keyboard/mouse is broken, too?
4. Not sure what's funny about it. It is a simple mechanic. I learned LA weaving and swap-canceling in a few minutes, and I've taught many people that same skill in a quick practice session on Bloodspawn and now the target skeleton. It takes time to master it, sure, but it doesn't take more than a few minutes to grasp the concept and start using it.

There's really no point in continuing this conversation, honestly. All I see is whining from people who refuse to learn a mechanic that has become a core function of combat in this game. It's not going to change. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong, and maybe Wrobel and Lambert want to "lower the ceiling" further by catering to bad players who refuse to L2P.

raviour · June 2017

it causes lag, end of

bebynnag · June 2017

<just gonna drop this in here>

you do not need the reflexes of a 12 year old

im 35, i have crippling arthritis in my both my hands - i can weave light attacks & weapon swap ani-cancel

Mazbt · June 2017

*sigh* too many bads in the forums.