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Spam Rule Is too Broad and violated by nearly every guild in the game.
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Point 1: Hyperbole. Not "every guild in the game" is spamming recruitment messages. Not even close.
Point 2: Benefit vs. burden. You only get the "spamming" smackdown by Zeni if there have been player complaints about your messages. If the frequency or length of your message (or both) is such that it is a pure disruption to zone chat, rather than adding to it, you are annoying people and they will report you. Make sure your recruitment messages are concise, no more than 4 lines of text in the box. Watch zone for a minute before posting. If there are several guild recruitment posted in that time, yours runs a higher risk of adding to the irritation of your target audience. It also means that many players will be ignoring chat (as most of us do when the recruitment messages make zone convos impossible), and your message won't reach many people anyway.
They may selectively enforce it, but the rule states it is spamming if you repeat something even once or post the same message in 2 zones: 7. SPAM, 7.1 You may not post messages or any other disruptive messaging. This includes posting messages more than once, and posting messages to multiple locations.
the rule states what the rule states but as the series tell us it is Law and Order - not just Law.
Rules are written broadly and enforced selectively all the time, it usually works.
So, before we start pushing up our soapboxes, can someone kindly identify who would be helped by changing this rule? Who would be hurt if we don't? Who has been hurt by it as is?
I know, i know i know asking for "cause" before "effect" or "problem" before "solution" is old-fashioned, but whenever i see carts put before horses, i start wondering what is planned for "day after i get to pick the livestock."Edited by STEVIL on May 30, 2017 1:31PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Almar✭✭Point 1: Hyperbole. Not "every guild in the game" is spamming recruitment messages. Not even close.
Point 2: Benefit vs. burden. You only get the "spamming" smackdown by Zeni if there have been player complaints about your messages. If the frequency or length of your message (or both) is such that it is a pure disruption to zone chat, rather than adding to it, you are annoying people and they will report you. Make sure your recruitment messages are concise, no more than 4 lines of text in the box. Watch zone for a minute before posting. If there are several guild recruitment posted in that time, yours runs a higher risk of adding to the irritation of your target audience. It also means that many players will be ignoring chat (as most of us do when the recruitment messages make zone convos impossible), and your message won't reach many people anyway.
They may selectively enforce it, but the rule states it is spamming if you repeat something even once or post the same message in 2 zones: 7. SPAM, 7.1 You may not post messages or any other disruptive messaging. This includes posting messages more than once, and posting messages to multiple locations.
the rule states what the rule states but as the series tell us it is Law and Order - not just Law.
Rules are written broadly and enforced selectively all the time, it usually works.
So, before we start pushing up our soapboxes, can someone kindly identify who would be helped by changing this rule? Who would be hurt if we don't? Who has been hurt by it as is?
I know, i know i know asking for "cause" before "effect" or "problem" before "solution" is old-fashioned, but whenever i see carts put before horses, i start wondering what is planned for "day after i get to pick the livestock."
People trying to buy and sell things or recruiting for guilds will be helped. With a clear definition of what is allowed they will not have to "violate" the rules every time they recruit in more than one zone, while just HOPING it will be allowed. They will KNOW it is allowed. Same people are hurt by not changing it, when anyone who doesn't like their prices or their guild can report them for spam out of spite. AS is 2 of my guilds recruiters have been given official spam warnings for posting a recruitment message once per hour per zone.0 -
So this is the spam rule: 7. SPAM
7.1 You may not post messages or distribute via any in-game mechanic, spam, chat flooding or any other disruptive messaging. This includes posting messages more than once, posting messages to multiple locations.
So then isn't every guild that travels to more than one zone to recruit in violation of the chat rules and guilty of spam? Additionally, isn't every person that says WTB something more than once also in violation? There needs to be a clear rule on what size message and how often it can be repeated surely we should be allowed to advertise what we are looking for in more than one zone?
well, when they recruit like one foul-mouthed child I saw using a macro to instantly flood the chat box in /yell , /zone, /say, /emote all in the course of about a second to second and a half with a long 5-line run of promo bs then ya pretty much need a strike but not any play time docked unless it continues to happen. That was clear use of a macro in the case I mentioned, it flooded my box instantly, and the prick was foul-mouthed about it when I mentioned the spam. It was clearly designed to appear even in some chat tabs that had some types of chat filtered out, which is clearly a tactic used by the spammer mentality even. Otherwise there is no 'need' to instantly throw it in 3 other forms of chat one being the abuse of the /emo function. Those kind of pricks need to stop the bs.
buying and selling on the other hand, that isn't the players' fault. That is poor design forcing them to do it or to decon everything if not vendor it for next to nothing in return. Blame that one on the dev that made the choice to not include regional (at least) or serverwide npc(s) to make markets accessible (including to sell) for everyone. That dev needs to be let go, and I'd do it near christmas time especially if they don't have gifts or funds set away for it yet and especially if it's kodiEdited by necronomniconb14_ESO on May 30, 2017 3:33PM0 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭/snip
Congratulations btw. Your spamming this topic in multiple forums, risking forum bans, and tilting at windmills has taken you from Soul Shriven to a two star. Your plan is working well.Edited by Darlgon on May 30, 2017 10:08PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.1 -
Almar✭✭necronomniconb14_ESO wrote: »So this is the spam rule: 7. SPAM
7.1 You may not post messages or distribute via any in-game mechanic, spam, chat flooding or any other disruptive messaging. This includes posting messages more than once, posting messages to multiple locations.
So then isn't every guild that travels to more than one zone to recruit in violation of the chat rules and guilty of spam? Additionally, isn't every person that says WTB something more than once also in violation? There needs to be a clear rule on what size message and how often it can be repeated surely we should be allowed to advertise what we are looking for in more than one zone?
well, when they recruit like one foul-mouthed child I saw using a macro to instantly flood the chat box in /yell , /zone, /say, /emote all in the course of about a second to second and a half with a long 5-line run of promo bs then ya pretty much need a strike but not any play time docked unless it continues to happen. That was clear use of a macro in the case I mentioned, it flooded my box instantly, and the prick was foul-mouthed about it when I mentioned the spam. It was clearly designed to appear even in some chat tabs that had some types of chat filtered out, which is clearly a tactic used by the spammer mentality even. Otherwise there is no 'need' to instantly throw it in 3 other forms of chat one being the abuse of the /emo function. Those kind of pricks need to stop the bs.
As I stated our recruiters posted ONE ad per hour per zone. No flooding or spamming. Still they got the warning to stop.
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disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would like to see a specific ban on selling stuff via zone chat - you want to sell things, join a guild.
Buying is different, as I see it, because there is no global search function (on console) and you may have checked every guild trader you have access to and still not found what you want. Still touting for 'cheap' goods in zone chat is different, and should be banned.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0 -
Malic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wait a minute youre complaining about guilds spamming recruitments in chat? Have you seen some of the toxic crap that gets thrown around in zone chats?
Its been this way for years, lol ZOS aint gonna fix it now, LOL.1 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
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I agree that there are far more annoying things in text chat than guilds calling for recruits....Wait a minute youre complaining about guilds spamming recruitments in chat? Have you seen some of the toxic crap that gets thrown around in zone chats?
Its been this way for years, lol ZOS aint gonna fix it now, LOL.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CaptainBeerDude wrote: »Rules are left vague in order to give the governing body more leeway.
So they let us do stuff, but could put the boot up someone for doing the same if they were harassing others.
This. I do not think it needs to be defined in a specific manner. Much would have to do with the content and behavior. Zos does not need their hands tied.
Further, I expect this is a fairly common clause in MMO ToS agreements for the reasons just stated. Yea, it would be nice if recruitment posts in chat did not take up most of all of my chat window, but I do not think that is a punishable offense.ParaNostram wrote: »Okay sugar time to take a step back, take off the tin foil hat, and put on our thinking caps.
Has anyone ever been banned for promoting a guild or selling in zone chat? No? Then clearly ZOS is applying common sense in application of this rule but have the language the way it is so they can catch any problematic person down the road should the need arise.
2 of our guild recruiters were given "official spam warnings" for a recruitment message that was posted once per hour per zone.
To this I would wonder if the size of the post was fairly large. I have seen many guild recruitment posts that are large take up the entire chat window as I have it sized. I can see Zos making a comment on that.
Though if the message appeared on their screen it is due to the message being picked up by an automatic filter.
Edited by idk on May 30, 2017 11:02PM0