The issues related to logging in to the European PC/Mac megaserver have been resolved at this time. If you continue to experience difficulties at login, please restart your client. Thank you for your patience!
End Game Content NEEDS a Change in it's Dificulty
-
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
Show me one thread on these forums where a person legitimately asked for help, not cried for nerfs, and got trolled to death rather than being helped.
Heck even in this thread OP got some very good advices already despite his tone and got offered more had he felt like asking specific questions regarding what's giving him issues beyond generic "it's too hard for me so it needs nerfed".
(Plot twist, I hate vMA. I've completed it on my magsorc and I must've died several thousand times. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
I could probably if I sat down and looked but lets be real honest, the people helping are in the minority. Community sucks, buddy, lets not pretend it dont. I saw some recently but I cant remember what thread it was. Go to the help section and watch for the trolling, it's there. Otherwise, your agressive pushing of the narrative that the OP is yelling for it to be nerfed because he cant beat it is all the evidence in the world.
Show me an actual arguement as to why the content shouldn't be brought in line with what ZOS is attempting to make the adverage/adverage peak for DPS this patch. Show me why it shouldn't be edited.
On the subject of the thread itself, lets be honest, your not interested in an arguement on the subject. You decided the truth allready, not gonna waste the time it'd take to argue it.
Love how people are jumping down my throat like I'm making some sort of grand point about the difficulty, though. (People trying to throw me under the bus by going 'he supports the OP!' like this is some sort of friggin crime against nature.) Fact is, we're working with one half of a stat crunch. The content needs to be edited, end of story. Maybe not nerfed, but brought in line with what the devs expect the adverage low/high of player DPS to be. Like most of the content. It needs edited, people, change is scary, we get it, but your knee jerk reaction isn't going to help the game grow.
Someone that understands my point in the OP, (even if it was a bit emotionally charged). I'm not asking for a Nerf, I don't want everything to be made easier. The fact that I can get all the way to Solkyn AND manage, even if just once, to get the guy down to just 8k health before wiping means it's doable. The problem however is the amount of crap ZOS put in to harass you and check your survivability. When there are five different attacks each dealing 10k, 20k, or even the stupid 50k+ one shot mechanics coming at you all at once, that is what specifically needs to be changed. Not everyone is a God tier multi-tasker. Not everyone is a twitchy gamer. It's overwhelming to keep up with and borderline unfair. I understand the punishments for not having your guard up during a Boss Fight but these punishments, even for slight slip ups are outrageously extreme. Wipes, just because you stepped to the right instead of the left, wipes because you accidentally mixed up which ability bar you were on in the heat of battle.
I wouldn't mind the slightest if they buffed Solkyn up to a 2mil health bar or something, I can deal with that, I've actually soloed a few Vet group bosses. But when there's a dozen other things trying to kill you in that fight? Like speedracer Clannfear, speedracer fire breathing Daedroth, multiple sources knocking you back, stunning you, throwing you into lava and the game making you go through several seconds before you can actually get out of the lava as it burns you. It's too much, even if it can still be done, it's still too much.
You say you are not asking for a nerf, and then you continue to describe the exact definition of a nerf for the content.
If you still consider VMA to be very hard content, even after the absurd amount of power creep we have enjoyed since its launch, the problem very clearly lies with you, and not the content.
There is nothing unfair about any mechanics, and you don't need to be a 'twitchy gamer'. This exact attitude of yours, pointing fingers how you shouldn't have to be some 'elite' is why you aren't cutting it. You don't need to be some kind of pro to clear this kind of stuff, you just need to have the right attitude.
But your attitude is too focussed on patting your own back, saying it's okay because you aren't some kind of no lifer, and then you try to convince yourself that you have some kind of right to clear the content.
Unless you change your point of view, endgame content is not for you, and will never be for you.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, OP, I'd suggest just leaving. Devs wont lisen and the playerbase cant be reasoned with. Nothing more to do than to enrich another MMO with your presence.
Because apparently difficulty of content has everything to do with attitude. That tops it, you cant get more insane than that statement.
Join the cult or get out! Join the adapt cult or be shunned! Shame! Shame! Shame!Edited by Doctordarkspawn on May 27, 2017 12:01AM0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Honestly, OP, I'd suggest just leaving. Devs wont lisen and the playerbase cant be reasoned with. Nothing more to do than to enrich another MMO with your presence.
Because apparently difficulty of content has everything to do with attitude. That tops it, you cant get more insane than that statement.
Join the cult or get out! Join the adapt cult or be shunned! Shame! Shame! Shame!
So you think attitude and mentality have no impact on your performance as a player?
Yeah, I'm sure you'll get real far as long as you keep saying the content is too hard and unforgiving, but anyone who can do it is obviously a twitchy no life gamer.
As long as you keep judging others and not yourself, you won't get anywhere.5 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not wanting a straight Nerf, I know full well everyone would just mock me and tell me to L2P and Git Gud. But the things that make the content difficult blatantly needs a change, ESPECIALLY now that ZOS has for some reason decided they needed to make it even harder to play this game by handicapping our Survivability.
Personally, (and I'm certain I'm not alone in this) I've completely had it with End Game Content. The DLC Dungeons, Trials, God Damned mother....Maelstrom. Even though I've been complaining about Maelstrom since the dawn of time, I'm not a stranger to it. I've been in there, I've done a few runs on Normal, I've experienced the Mechanics, and now I tried Vet. I took my BEST PvE MagSorc character in there and was at first doing pretty well. Until Stages Five and Seven. I burned through all 15 of my Vitality lives in those but through multiple tries I persevered through and got to the Theater. A few more deaths learning the Mechanics and finally Solkyn. That Horker wiped me DOZENS of times, no matter what I tried, what skills I used, going back to the guy so I can repair. I'm not saying I want a Nerf, but there's too many Mechanics! There's too many damage sources all around, all with the capability to one shot. My resources are drained by the time I even get up top for the first crystal, I can't run from the mobs waiting for my regen since the Mobs are like they're in Nascar, and I even got SO CLOSE to actually finishing him only once. 8,000 health. That's all he had left as I was desperately trying to shield against four different sources of high damage attacks but wiped before I could cast that last needed Fury. After that I never even got him under 60% again through another dozen wipes.
I'm just done, this is complete bull, I don't understand why you people actually find joy in this. Games are supposed to have replayability but this kind of content makes me NEVER want to try it again. So I'm just calling it finished now. A 30 or so death run with a score of 350,000. I was so damn close to my first Maelstrom weapon.
You're continuing to make the new Content harder while at the same time making it more difficult for our Characters to survive. I didn't buy ESO so I could be a Min/Maxer wearing Gold Trial Gear.
I was going to take a pic of one of my death screens and superimpose a giant %$#& YOU on it, but I figured that might be a bit much.
Look dude I'll be square with you. I am not happy about the class changes either but it'a time ww get real for a moment. The class you are doing vma on is the known easy button and came out relatively unchanged.
Trust me, I have been there too. I do vma on what is consideres the weakest dps class in the game with 11k life for funsies jist to force it to keep my attention. The difficulty is mostly artificial. My class does not have sustain abilities, especially for that last boss. I know your struggle with the lich crystals and resources. Trust me here.
Check out alcasts cp suggestions/rotations. You do not need to math them exactly but it doesnt hurt to see how far off you are.
Secondly, strategies to help you through vma are developed over time, and for now use engine guardian to give yourself some breathing room.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Honestly, OP, I'd suggest just leaving. Devs wont lisen and the playerbase cant be reasoned with. Nothing more to do than to enrich another MMO with your presence.
Because apparently difficulty of content has everything to do with attitude. That tops it, you cant get more insane than that statement.
Join the cult or get out! Join the adapt cult or be shunned! Shame! Shame! Shame!
So you think attitude and mentality have no impact on your performance as a player?
Yeah, I'm sure you'll get real far as long as you keep saying the content is too hard and unforgiving, but anyone who can do it is obviously a twitchy no life gamer.
As long as you keep judging others and not yourself, you won't get anywhere.
I think your using it as an excuse because you find change scary.
This game isn't worth the effort put forth to stay relevent. I know I can succeed if I put my mind to it, but this game stopped being worth that when the update dropped. Since said update, I've been puting my mind to For Honor, and winning consistantly.
It does not matter if we were talking about any other piece of content. You'd say the same thing because change is scary. Spare me.
PS: Nice strawman. Not everyone who disagree's with you is a hivemind.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on May 27, 2017 2:00AM0 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭Actually I am fine with the end game content being hard. Enough of this game is "Babies First MMO" difficulty!!
My problem is that the very little end game content we do have is simply not worth the effort and becomes boring as hell after you run it 4 times.. There is simply no reason to run it.. I mean the stats boost we get from gold jewelry are laughable!!
Other than a pat on the back and a "You did it" achievement is not what is going to keep players around for very long.
Hell Neverwinters end game is far superior to ESOs in every way.
The population in ESO is at an all time low right now and ZOS needs to do something soon.
I do not think simply making end game content easy mode is a good idea. Heck ESO plays like a FPS and not an MMO as it is.. Making the only content in the game that is a challenge easy mode will only make the servers even more dead than they are right now.
Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Actually I am fine with the end game content being hard. Enough of this game is "Babies First MMO" difficulty!!
My problem is that the very little end game content we do have is simply not worth the effort and becomes boring as hell after you run it 4 times.. There is simply no reason to run it.. I mean the stats boost we get from gold jewelry are laughable!!
Other than a pat on the back and a "You did it" achievement is not what is going to keep players around for very long.
Hell Neverwinters end game is far superior to ESOs in every way.
The population in ESO is at an all time low right now and ZOS needs to do something soon.
I do not think simply making end game content easy mode is a good idea. Heck ESO plays like a FPS and not an MMO as it is.. Making the only content in the game that is a challenge easy mode will only make the servers even more dead than they are right now.
...This is not because of the casuals, this is not because of the easy mode, what are you even on about?0 -
Sweetpea704✭✭✭✭I'm always telling my kids that everything in life that is worth doing is hard. Hard stuff is hard. The endgame content is hard. I used to think the Planar Inhibitor was too hard on vet, then we beat it. I used to think the Face Sculpter in ICP was too hard, then we beat it. On and on. Remember the ridiculous wasps in Craglorn. They went from mobs to avoid to mobs I used to test my build, as I improved. I was actually kind of bummed that they were all nerfed. Keep trying. Use a dummy and combat metrics to check your stats as you fight. Tweak. Come back stronger.Edited by Sweetpea704 on May 27, 2017 4:57PM0
-
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the ultimate fix would
be to simply stop making items BOUND!
then everyone could buy that Maelstrom staff for 500k lol
If only...
PvP'ers happy, since they can skip the pve and buy the gear
PvE'ers happy, since they can sell the crappy drops they don't need or get for the 1001th time
though some elitist PvE'ers will be unhappy, because suddenly they aren't a special snowflake anymore. Happened before when they turned Trial gear in BoP due to the outcry of some raiders.
I would love BoP to go away... you don't want to PvP but want PvP drops, no worries mate, I got all this AP I haven't got a use for, let me sell you that item for 500k, special price just for you!
Edited by Docmandu on May 27, 2017 7:32AM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
Show me one thread on these forums where a person legitimately asked for help, not cried for nerfs, and got trolled to death rather than being helped.
Heck even in this thread OP got some very good advices already despite his tone and got offered more had he felt like asking specific questions regarding what's giving him issues beyond generic "it's too hard for me so it needs nerfed".
(Plot twist, I hate vMA. I've completed it on my magsorc and I must've died several thousand times. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
I could probably if I sat down and looked but lets be real honest, the people helping are in the minority. Community sucks, buddy, lets not pretend it dont. I saw some recently but I cant remember what thread it was. Go to the help section and watch for the trolling, it's there. Otherwise, your agressive pushing of the narrative that the OP is yelling for it to be nerfed because he cant beat it is all the evidence in the world.
Show me an actual arguement as to why the content shouldn't be brought in line with what ZOS is attempting to make the adverage/adverage peak for DPS this patch. Show me why it shouldn't be edited.
On the subject of the thread itself, lets be honest, your not interested in an arguement on the subject. You decided the truth allready, not gonna waste the time it'd take to argue it.
Love how people are jumping down my throat like I'm making some sort of grand point about the difficulty, though. (People trying to throw me under the bus by going 'he supports the OP!' like this is some sort of friggin crime against nature.) Fact is, we're working with one half of a stat crunch. The content needs to be edited, end of story. Maybe not nerfed, but brought in line with what the devs expect the adverage low/high of player DPS to be. Like most of the content. It needs edited, people, change is scary, we get it, but your knee jerk reaction isn't going to help the game grow.
Someone that understands my point in the OP, (even if it was a bit emotionally charged). I'm not asking for a Nerf, I don't want everything to be made easier. The fact that I can get all the way to Solkyn AND manage, even if just once, to get the guy down to just 8k health before wiping means it's doable. The problem however is the amount of crap ZOS put in to harass you and check your survivability. When there are five different attacks each dealing 10k, 20k, or even the stupid 50k+ one shot mechanics coming at you all at once, that is what specifically needs to be changed. Not everyone is a God tier multi-tasker. Not everyone is a twitchy gamer. It's overwhelming to keep up with and borderline unfair. I understand the punishments for not having your guard up during a Boss Fight but these punishments, even for slight slip ups are outrageously extreme. Wipes, just because you stepped to the right instead of the left, wipes because you accidentally mixed up which ability bar you were on in the heat of battle.
I wouldn't mind the slightest if they buffed Solkyn up to a 2mil health bar or something, I can deal with that, I've actually soloed a few Vet group bosses. But when there's a dozen other things trying to kill you in that fight? Like speedracer Clannfear, speedracer fire breathing Daedroth, multiple sources knocking you back, stunning you, throwing you into lava and the game making you go through several seconds before you can actually get out of the lava as it burns you. It's too much, even if it can still be done, it's still too much.
@ArchMikem Getting one shot by a 50k hit probably means one is not working the mechanics. Most, even top players, enjoy having mechanics instead of fights one just stands there. Having one shot mechanic makes sense vs something that just tickles. If some of the mechanics did not hurt so bad they would be meaningless.
It is also better for the more moderate player to have the fight deal with mechanics vs just high dps.
3 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
Show me one thread on these forums where a person legitimately asked for help, not cried for nerfs, and got trolled to death rather than being helped.
Heck even in this thread OP got some very good advices already despite his tone and got offered more had he felt like asking specific questions regarding what's giving him issues beyond generic "it's too hard for me so it needs nerfed".
(Plot twist, I hate vMA. I've completed it on my magsorc and I must've died several thousand times. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
I could probably if I sat down and looked but lets be real honest, the people helping are in the minority. Community sucks, buddy, lets not pretend it dont. I saw some recently but I cant remember what thread it was. Go to the help section and watch for the trolling, it's there. Otherwise, your agressive pushing of the narrative that the OP is yelling for it to be nerfed because he cant beat it is all the evidence in the world.
Show me an actual arguement as to why the content shouldn't be brought in line with what ZOS is attempting to make the adverage/adverage peak for DPS this patch. Show me why it shouldn't be edited.
On the subject of the thread itself, lets be honest, your not interested in an arguement on the subject. You decided the truth allready, not gonna waste the time it'd take to argue it.
Love how people are jumping down my throat like I'm making some sort of grand point about the difficulty, though. (People trying to throw me under the bus by going 'he supports the OP!' like this is some sort of friggin crime against nature.) Fact is, we're working with one half of a stat crunch. The content needs to be edited, end of story. Maybe not nerfed, but brought in line with what the devs expect the adverage low/high of player DPS to be. Like most of the content. It needs edited, people, change is scary, we get it, but your knee jerk reaction isn't going to help the game grow.
o.O No, it actually does not. I'm actually pretty amazed by these forums, for all the issues with the game and whatnot...the community is upset, frustrated, lashing out at the devs a lot when unfunctioning game just gets too much but in my 3 years on these forums I have never once seen anyone get trolled down for legitimately asking for help. I've seen people going way out of their way writing walls of text to explain mechanics, even making videos for specific questions, I've seen people offering to craft gear for free, get someone through a dungeon(I've done this many a time myself).....now it doesn't stand to say there're no idiots or jerks here but when people ask for help they generally get it. When people ask for nerfs for content others enjoy instead and refuse to listen to advices - then people often turn hostile.
As for why content shouldn't be nerfed - I'm genuinely not sure I follow, why should it be nerfed? Zenimax was clearly unhappy with how easy most of the content has become so they nerfed us. Now you can argue this was not needed, however it seems it'd extremely controversial for them to nerf content now when clearly their goal was to make content harder.
Btw there're still people pulling 40k dps self buffed this patch. (And no, it's not me.) And there're guilds completing newest trial on vet already. Why does the content need editing?
In my opinion the "truth" is we all would be wise to remember there exist other people with opinions possibly different from our own, and they deserve content they enjoy as much as we do. The game has to provide for everyone. For someone not having a lot of time or not wanting to dedicate a lot of effort to a video-game(nothing wrong with that) they made normal modes of literally everything, even trials. For those wanting a bit more of a challenge, there's vet content. Personally, I feel normal content needs to be buffed at least tenfold because to me it's boring as heck but there're people who like it that way so it's okay, I'll just play veteran instead. Why cannot op adapt the same philosophy? There're obviously heaps of people who rather enjoy MA at its current difficulty. Why are their preferences less important?1 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There are already plenty of tutorials and the OP didn't really ask for a particular mechanic vs. that specific build but spoke about general nerfs to group content only using VMA as an example. This thread couldn't progress in a constructive direction since there's nothing to build on. Personally I didn't run VMA since the drops were not a priority for me - I have put healer and tank first. But I will start running it eventually. I don't want it to feel like a faceroll then because people with L2P issues and no will to improve whined about it and the devs actually listened to such people. I actually enjoy difficult, mechanics heavy fights like trials and DLC dungeons because they really challenge me. If they were nerfed there will be nothing for me to progress towards and I will probably quit the game. I'm sure I'm not alone in this regard.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |2 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not wanting a straight Nerf, I know full well everyone would just mock me and tell me to L2P and Git Gud. But the things that make the content difficult blatantly needs a change, ESPECIALLY now that ZOS has for some reason decided they needed to make it even harder to play this game by handicapping our Survivability.
Personally, (and I'm certain I'm not alone in this) I've completely had it with End Game Content. The DLC Dungeons, Trials, God Damned mother....Maelstrom. Even though I've been complaining about Maelstrom since the dawn of time, I'm not a stranger to it. I've been in there, I've done a few runs on Normal, I've experienced the Mechanics, and now I tried Vet. I took my BEST PvE MagSorc character in there and was at first doing pretty well. Until Stages Five and Seven. I burned through all 15 of my Vitality lives in those but through multiple tries I persevered through and got to the Theater. A few more deaths learning the Mechanics and finally Solkyn. That Horker wiped me DOZENS of times, no matter what I tried, what skills I used, going back to the guy so I can repair. I'm not saying I want a Nerf, but there's too many Mechanics! There's too many damage sources all around, all with the capability to one shot. My resources are drained by the time I even get up top for the first crystal, I can't run from the mobs waiting for my regen since the Mobs are like they're in Nascar, and I even got SO CLOSE to actually finishing him only once. 8,000 health. That's all he had left as I was desperately trying to shield against four different sources of high damage attacks but wiped before I could cast that last needed Fury. After that I never even got him under 60% again through another dozen wipes.
I'm just done, this is complete bull, I don't understand why you people actually find joy in this. Games are supposed to have replayability but this kind of content makes me NEVER want to try it again. So I'm just calling it finished now. A 30 or so death run with a score of 350,000. I was so damn close to my first Maelstrom weapon.
You're continuing to make the new Content harder while at the same time making it more difficult for our Characters to survive. I didn't buy ESO so I could be a Min/Maxer wearing Gold Trial Gear.
I was going to take a pic of one of my death screens and superimpose a giant %$#& YOU on it, but I figured that might be a bit much.
I have beenough playing this game since it came out and was in love with PVP and PVP only I have one 5 star on EP and working on my next on AD. I play solo or small group and I try and stay away from the zergs but on XBOX in haddy kinda hard to. So for 1 year I took a break from PVP and went full PVE using my mag Blade. I have done all trials and maelstrom I know what it was like getting killed over and over and at one point maelstrom made me hate the game. I would run 1 stage a day when they let it save the progress just so I would not rage but then I took my time watched videos " deltia gaming " for a maelstrom guide and took my time to L2P myself. Now I'm running 550k scores some deaths every now and I have flawless on 7 toons just take your time really see what's killing you and know when the burn and know when to wait. The content is really easy once you understand it and I hope that they make it harder soon. I have every weapon with all the best traits but I'm shooting for a 600k now and that's my new goal.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
Show me one thread on these forums where a person legitimately asked for help, not cried for nerfs, and got trolled to death rather than being helped.
Heck even in this thread OP got some very good advices already despite his tone and got offered more had he felt like asking specific questions regarding what's giving him issues beyond generic "it's too hard for me so it needs nerfed".
(Plot twist, I hate vMA. I've completed it on my magsorc and I must've died several thousand times. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
I could probably if I sat down and looked but lets be real honest, the people helping are in the minority. Community sucks, buddy, lets not pretend it dont. I saw some recently but I cant remember what thread it was. Go to the help section and watch for the trolling, it's there. Otherwise, your agressive pushing of the narrative that the OP is yelling for it to be nerfed because he cant beat it is all the evidence in the world.
Show me an actual arguement as to why the content shouldn't be brought in line with what ZOS is attempting to make the adverage/adverage peak for DPS this patch. Show me why it shouldn't be edited.
On the subject of the thread itself, lets be honest, your not interested in an arguement on the subject. You decided the truth allready, not gonna waste the time it'd take to argue it.
Love how people are jumping down my throat like I'm making some sort of grand point about the difficulty, though. (People trying to throw me under the bus by going 'he supports the OP!' like this is some sort of friggin crime against nature.) Fact is, we're working with one half of a stat crunch. The content needs to be edited, end of story. Maybe not nerfed, but brought in line with what the devs expect the adverage low/high of player DPS to be. Like most of the content. It needs edited, people, change is scary, we get it, but your knee jerk reaction isn't going to help the game grow.
o.O No, it actually does not. I'm actually pretty amazed by these forums, for all the issues with the game and whatnot...the community is upset, frustrated, lashing out at the devs a lot when unfunctioning game just gets too much but in my 3 years on these forums I have never once seen anyone get trolled down for legitimately asking for help. I've seen people going way out of their way writing walls of text to explain mechanics, even making videos for specific questions, I've seen people offering to craft gear for free, get someone through a dungeon(I've done this many a time myself).....now it doesn't stand to say there're no idiots or jerks here but when people ask for help they generally get it. When people ask for nerfs for content others enjoy instead and refuse to listen to advices - then people often turn hostile.
As for why content shouldn't be nerfed - I'm genuinely not sure I follow, why should it be nerfed? Zenimax was clearly unhappy with how easy most of the content has become so they nerfed us. Now you can argue this was not needed, however it seems it'd extremely controversial for them to nerf content now when clearly their goal was to make content harder.
Btw there're still people pulling 40k dps self buffed this patch. (And no, it's not me.) And there're guilds completing newest trial on vet already. Why does the content need editing?
In my opinion the "truth" is we all would be wise to remember there exist other people with opinions possibly different from our own, and they deserve content they enjoy as much as we do. The game has to provide for everyone. For someone not having a lot of time or not wanting to dedicate a lot of effort to a video-game(nothing wrong with that) they made normal modes of literally everything, even trials. For those wanting a bit more of a challenge, there's vet content. Personally, I feel normal content needs to be buffed at least tenfold because to me it's boring as heck but there're people who like it that way so it's okay, I'll just play veteran instead. Why cannot op adapt the same philosophy? There're obviously heaps of people who rather enjoy MA at its current difficulty. Why are their preferences less important?
Exept it wasn't to make the content harder.
@Magdalina Had you any attention span if you read the patch notes, the phrase that comes up frequently is 'lower the ceiling, raise the floor'. Zenimaxes goal has been making it -easier- for people to complete, now whether or not this is working or not is up for debate. (It isn't, In my opinion.) But what one cannot deny is making the content harder via nerfing the player isn't going to raise the floor or lower the ceiling.
There's Opinion, then there's the age old arguement. For those that are not the elite, our fun comes at the cost of theirs. This is how it has allways been. People who get off on feeling big and pushing themselves until they crest that mountain so they can lord it over the rest of us, are only happy when that mountain isn't passable by the vast majority. It has nothing to do with Opinion. It has everything to do with cause and effect.
Edit: I'm not even talking about veteran here. The resource effect changes screw everyone. It's becoming the fundemental design, focused on a minority of hardcore yahoo's. And it boggles the mind.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on May 28, 2017 12:19AM1 -
Oompuh✭✭✭✭✭If you don't like the hard content, no one is forcing you to play Veteran. You don't NEED Maelstrom weapons. You don't NEED to do hard mode end game content. The people that play the hard content, want it hard. End game players shouldn't have their content nerfed because its too hard for you. How about you become better at the game and compete in that content? Why should the people doing Maw in 20 mins and getting 600k in Maelstrom suffer because you can't handle mechanics that other people can?
Hard content is fun content.Edited by Oompuh on May 28, 2017 12:02AMXbox NA - Oompa
Khajiit DK Tank
Founder of Major Aegis
Main Tank of Dissonant Crusade Uprising Savages4 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am, by gaming standards, an old man. Before ESO I hadn't "seriously" gamed since Tekken 3 or Age of Kings. That was about 20 years ago.
I primarily run vMA on a Khajiit stamblade, which is about as rough as it gets. I blow through it in 40-50 minutes with at most a few deaths and put up ~550k scores. I don't have "twitch" skills. I have a career and a wife and other hobbies, so I can't run Maelstrom 40 times a week and push 600k.
It took me months, thousands of potions and soul gems and repair kits and a smashed controller to get my first complete.
Just like Trials, it's about crafting solid strategies and tactics and executing them well. Can you tell me what enemies spawn where on, say, stage 7 round 3? How about stage 4 round 2? You don't need world-beating DPS or reaction times to beat vMA. You may need those things to crack the permanent leaderboards but for a complete, nah. You just need a plan. You need to know where every add spawns and what you have to do to deal with them. You need to know when you need to use Sigils. You need to know when you have to heal or shield or dodge because there's an enemy behind you that you haven't even seen yet but because you have a plan, you just know what to do.
Talk to other players. Ask for specific advice here or on Reddit or in game. Watch videos, read guides, watch people stream it.
And honestly, although it took some time to adjust, I actually find it a bit easier to run vMA in Morrowind (PTS). Ironclad and Master-at-Arms have upped my survivability and burst damage. I can't put up the same scores that I used to but I find it easier to survive if I just want a complete.
The thing that I don't get is ... there are, what, 20 dungeons? 5 Trials, DSA, Maelstrom, PvP, quests, World Bosses, Public Dungeons, Imperial City, etc. etc. The game's got thousands of hours of stuff to do for people of all skill levels. So why nerf the tiny bit of content that is really challenging? That seems selfish. What about the players who like this stuff?6 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
Show me one thread on these forums where a person legitimately asked for help, not cried for nerfs, and got trolled to death rather than being helped.
Heck even in this thread OP got some very good advices already despite his tone and got offered more had he felt like asking specific questions regarding what's giving him issues beyond generic "it's too hard for me so it needs nerfed".
(Plot twist, I hate vMA. I've completed it on my magsorc and I must've died several thousand times. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
I could probably if I sat down and looked but lets be real honest, the people helping are in the minority. Community sucks, buddy, lets not pretend it dont. I saw some recently but I cant remember what thread it was. Go to the help section and watch for the trolling, it's there. Otherwise, your agressive pushing of the narrative that the OP is yelling for it to be nerfed because he cant beat it is all the evidence in the world.
Show me an actual arguement as to why the content shouldn't be brought in line with what ZOS is attempting to make the adverage/adverage peak for DPS this patch. Show me why it shouldn't be edited.
On the subject of the thread itself, lets be honest, your not interested in an arguement on the subject. You decided the truth allready, not gonna waste the time it'd take to argue it.
Love how people are jumping down my throat like I'm making some sort of grand point about the difficulty, though. (People trying to throw me under the bus by going 'he supports the OP!' like this is some sort of friggin crime against nature.) Fact is, we're working with one half of a stat crunch. The content needs to be edited, end of story. Maybe not nerfed, but brought in line with what the devs expect the adverage low/high of player DPS to be. Like most of the content. It needs edited, people, change is scary, we get it, but your knee jerk reaction isn't going to help the game grow.
o.O No, it actually does not. I'm actually pretty amazed by these forums, for all the issues with the game and whatnot...the community is upset, frustrated, lashing out at the devs a lot when unfunctioning game just gets too much but in my 3 years on these forums I have never once seen anyone get trolled down for legitimately asking for help. I've seen people going way out of their way writing walls of text to explain mechanics, even making videos for specific questions, I've seen people offering to craft gear for free, get someone through a dungeon(I've done this many a time myself).....now it doesn't stand to say there're no idiots or jerks here but when people ask for help they generally get it. When people ask for nerfs for content others enjoy instead and refuse to listen to advices - then people often turn hostile.
As for why content shouldn't be nerfed - I'm genuinely not sure I follow, why should it be nerfed? Zenimax was clearly unhappy with how easy most of the content has become so they nerfed us. Now you can argue this was not needed, however it seems it'd extremely controversial for them to nerf content now when clearly their goal was to make content harder.
Btw there're still people pulling 40k dps self buffed this patch. (And no, it's not me.) And there're guilds completing newest trial on vet already. Why does the content need editing?
In my opinion the "truth" is we all would be wise to remember there exist other people with opinions possibly different from our own, and they deserve content they enjoy as much as we do. The game has to provide for everyone. For someone not having a lot of time or not wanting to dedicate a lot of effort to a video-game(nothing wrong with that) they made normal modes of literally everything, even trials. For those wanting a bit more of a challenge, there's vet content. Personally, I feel normal content needs to be buffed at least tenfold because to me it's boring as heck but there're people who like it that way so it's okay, I'll just play veteran instead. Why cannot op adapt the same philosophy? There're obviously heaps of people who rather enjoy MA at its current difficulty. Why are their preferences less important?
Exept it wasn't to make the content harder.
@Magdalina Had you any attention span if you read the patch notes, the phrase that comes up frequently is 'lower the ceiling, raise the floor'. Zenimaxes goal has been making it -easier- for people to complete, now whether or not this is working or not is up for debate. (It isn't, In my opinion.) But what one cannot deny is making the content harder via nerfing the player isn't going to raise the floor or lower the ceiling.
There's Opinion, then there's the age old arguement. For those that are not the elite, our fun comes at the cost of theirs. This is how it has allways been. People who get off on feeling big and pushing themselves until they crest that mountain so they can lord it over the rest of us, are only happy when that mountain isn't passable by the vast majority. It has nothing to do with Opinion. It has everything to do with cause and effect.
Edit: I'm not even talking about veteran here. The resource effect changes screw everyone. It's becoming the fundemental design, focused on a minority of hardcore yahoo's. And it boggles the mind.
Lol. Nice jab. Yes I've read the patch notes and found ZOS comments a bit silly. I'd imagine they thought they'd nerf an "elite" player far more than they would a "casual", which partially stands to reason I guess - light attacking mobs in the world is now even more effective with light attacks' buff and has 0 resource management issues
I'm still at a loss as for how existence of challenging content ruins your fun. You can light attack nMA to death with most any build out there. See all the story, get a slight glimpse of mechanics and a complete. There's nothing hardcore nor challenging about it, and THAT is a fact. And notice that I'm not saying it should be buffed nor that the existence of such faceroll easy content ruins my game. Yet you insist that existence of content such as vMA ruins it for you. Boggles my mind, really.
Also, "fundamental desin"? The fundamental design at this point is pretty much light attacking everything to death, only exceptions are vet dungeons(mainly dlc ones), vet trials and vMA. All of which can be done in normal mode. I fail to see why the sole existence of more challenging option(optional one mind you) is so detrimental to you having fun in the game.
Btw, if you want to start the whole "evil l33ts killing our fun" argument, it's the opposite of truth. ZOS has been doing everything it can to cater to most casual playstyle possible(which I don't approve of but it is what it is). Main story has been nerfed from challemnging endeavour forcing you to progress your character into another light attack fest. Original vet zones have been nerfed into nothing. Craglorn has been nerfed because people couldn't live with having a zone where you could actually die if you went there alone and unprepared. Vet dungeons have been nerfed to just...lawl state. Ever seen 1.5 vet dungeons? Try to compare them to current ones and then tell me more about how ZOS exclusively caters to hardcore playerbaase. Normal versions of all vet dungeons have been introduced(as have been vet of all old non vets. I approve of this change on the whole, it's a great one). Normal Trials have been introduced. Imperial City mobs have been nerfed(why is honestly mind boggling to me, was the very last zone where it was actually challenging to face mobs alone, literally ONLY place in game...and they nerfed that too). Imperial City dungeons have been nerfed at least half a dozen times, you should've seen them at launch. Basically only things that more or less haven't been nerfed are SotH dungeons, vet trials(?) and vMA(which has also become easier overtime because originally it was designed for players with way lower and not "front loaded" cp).
I know that my fun and challenge has been ruined dozens of times because people wanted easier content everywhere, even in optionally veteran mode, I fail to see how anyone can complain that this game "caters to the hardcore". Are we even playing the same game?6 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
It's people like you that discourage me from making guides.
I mean it's not like I have spent hours of my own time practically walking people through the very content the OP is complaining is too hard.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
It's people like you that discourage me from making guides.
I mean it's not like I have spent hours of my own time practically walking people through the very content the OP is complaining is too hard.
I have to say your vet maelstrom guide is the bible of maelstrom when compared to any other guide on the subject.. great work..2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm confused. What does the OP really want? He said vMA is too hard and it should get somewhat easier but he doesn't want a nerf. Ten pages later we get to the real issue: He isn't winning constantly. So despite players like @Gilliamtherogue or @Joy_Division offering sound and accurate advice if asked (and frankly, if you're dedicated and can't beat vMA after reading @Joy_Division guide the problem is probably not the game) the OP states the community is just bullying him.
But what else could you say to someone who refuses advice and just wants to best everything without effort? I don't get what the OP really wants to hear.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
squinceybones✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I'm not wanting a straight Nerf, I know full well everyone would just mock me and tell me to L2P and Git Gud. But the things that make the content difficult blatantly needs a change, ESPECIALLY now that ZOS has for some reason decided they needed to make it even harder to play this game by handicapping our Survivability.
Personally, (and I'm certain I'm not alone in this) I've completely had it with End Game Content. The DLC Dungeons, Trials, God Damned mother....Maelstrom. Even though I've been complaining about Maelstrom since the dawn of time, I'm not a stranger to it. I've been in there, I've done a few runs on Normal, I've experienced the Mechanics, and now I tried Vet. I took my BEST PvE MagSorc character in there and was at first doing pretty well. Until Stages Five and Seven. I burned through all 15 of my Vitality lives in those but through multiple tries I persevered through and got to the Theater. A few more deaths learning the Mechanics and finally Solkyn. That Horker wiped me DOZENS of times, no matter what I tried, what skills I used, going back to the guy so I can repair. I'm not saying I want a Nerf, but there's too many Mechanics! There's too many damage sources all around, all with the capability to one shot. My resources are drained by the time I even get up top for the first crystal, I can't run from the mobs waiting for my regen since the Mobs are like they're in Nascar, and I even got SO CLOSE to actually finishing him only once. 8,000 health. That's all he had left as I was desperately trying to shield against four different sources of high damage attacks but wiped before I could cast that last needed Fury. After that I never even got him under 60% again through another dozen wipes.
I'm just done, this is complete bull, I don't understand why you people actually find joy in this. Games are supposed to have replayability but this kind of content makes me NEVER want to try it again. So I'm just calling it finished now. A 30 or so death run with a score of 350,000. I was so damn close to my first Maelstrom weapon.
You're continuing to make the new Content harder while at the same time making it more difficult for our Characters to survive. I didn't buy ESO so I could be a Min/Maxer wearing Gold Trial Gear.
I was going to take a pic of one of my death screens and superimpose a giant %$#& YOU on it, but I figured that might be a bit much.
It's not often we agree, but this is a thing that needs to happen.
What keeps happening is we keep geting nerfed but the content difficulty stays the same. If you want the current balance, fine, makes me no nevermind, but you have -got- to edit the content to suit. If you want this to work, you need to edit the content. Goes for all of it, too. Shadows of the hist dungeons, trials, vet dungeons, the content needs to be brought down to the level at which you want the highest player to be at. You need. To take. A better approach with your game, ZOS.
It used to be, back in the olden days when Softcaps were a thing, it seemed like the devs had a general idea of how they wanted each roll to function. How DPS were to function and what their DPS limit was. How tanks were to function and how to give them some leeway to support the team. Healers, the same. So what you need to do, ZOS, is pick a maximum friggin DPS limit and build the content, and the game, to meet that. Not the other way around. You need to do the same with the support classes too, right now you nerfed tanks for no reason other than PVP.
Of course, that last sentance is exactly why this will never happen, PVP. Yeah, the new battlegrounds PVP that's pissing people off because the sustain nerf just made PVP a battle of poisons now. You guys just cant do anything right, can you?
Or maybe, just maybe, this is a classic case of you, not thinking through the consequences of your actions and hardcore player whining, and thus not realizing it'd screw both.
We keep getting nerfed? The content was balanced around a 300cp player, we now have double the CP. The whole point of the "nerfs" this patch was to address the ongoing powercreep. You want vet dungeons to be brought down in difficulty? Players can already solo all but one of them last time I checked.1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭squinceybones wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I'm not wanting a straight Nerf, I know full well everyone would just mock me and tell me to L2P and Git Gud. But the things that make the content difficult blatantly needs a change, ESPECIALLY now that ZOS has for some reason decided they needed to make it even harder to play this game by handicapping our Survivability.
Personally, (and I'm certain I'm not alone in this) I've completely had it with End Game Content. The DLC Dungeons, Trials, God Damned mother....Maelstrom. Even though I've been complaining about Maelstrom since the dawn of time, I'm not a stranger to it. I've been in there, I've done a few runs on Normal, I've experienced the Mechanics, and now I tried Vet. I took my BEST PvE MagSorc character in there and was at first doing pretty well. Until Stages Five and Seven. I burned through all 15 of my Vitality lives in those but through multiple tries I persevered through and got to the Theater. A few more deaths learning the Mechanics and finally Solkyn. That Horker wiped me DOZENS of times, no matter what I tried, what skills I used, going back to the guy so I can repair. I'm not saying I want a Nerf, but there's too many Mechanics! There's too many damage sources all around, all with the capability to one shot. My resources are drained by the time I even get up top for the first crystal, I can't run from the mobs waiting for my regen since the Mobs are like they're in Nascar, and I even got SO CLOSE to actually finishing him only once. 8,000 health. That's all he had left as I was desperately trying to shield against four different sources of high damage attacks but wiped before I could cast that last needed Fury. After that I never even got him under 60% again through another dozen wipes.
I'm just done, this is complete bull, I don't understand why you people actually find joy in this. Games are supposed to have replayability but this kind of content makes me NEVER want to try it again. So I'm just calling it finished now. A 30 or so death run with a score of 350,000. I was so damn close to my first Maelstrom weapon.
You're continuing to make the new Content harder while at the same time making it more difficult for our Characters to survive. I didn't buy ESO so I could be a Min/Maxer wearing Gold Trial Gear.
I was going to take a pic of one of my death screens and superimpose a giant %$#& YOU on it, but I figured that might be a bit much.
It's not often we agree, but this is a thing that needs to happen.
What keeps happening is we keep geting nerfed but the content difficulty stays the same. If you want the current balance, fine, makes me no nevermind, but you have -got- to edit the content to suit. If you want this to work, you need to edit the content. Goes for all of it, too. Shadows of the hist dungeons, trials, vet dungeons, the content needs to be brought down to the level at which you want the highest player to be at. You need. To take. A better approach with your game, ZOS.
It used to be, back in the olden days when Softcaps were a thing, it seemed like the devs had a general idea of how they wanted each roll to function. How DPS were to function and what their DPS limit was. How tanks were to function and how to give them some leeway to support the team. Healers, the same. So what you need to do, ZOS, is pick a maximum friggin DPS limit and build the content, and the game, to meet that. Not the other way around. You need to do the same with the support classes too, right now you nerfed tanks for no reason other than PVP.
Of course, that last sentance is exactly why this will never happen, PVP. Yeah, the new battlegrounds PVP that's pissing people off because the sustain nerf just made PVP a battle of poisons now. You guys just cant do anything right, can you?
Or maybe, just maybe, this is a classic case of you, not thinking through the consequences of your actions and hardcore player whining, and thus not realizing it'd screw both.
We keep getting nerfed? The content was balanced around a 300cp player, we now have double the CP. The whole point of the "nerfs" this patch was to address the ongoing powercreep.
This is a very good point. vMA was released a while ago, and average characters nowadays are much more powerful than they used to be back then. With all those double exp events and catch up system cps are relatively easy to get, and dps boost from all those dps sets is absolutely crazy compared to Orsinium meta.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
It's people like you that discourage me from making guides.
I mean it's not like I have spent hours of my own time practically walking people through the very content the OP is complaining is too hard.
I dunno, call me a jerk but the guy asked for advice and flat out refused it. Any player that has ever beaten vma can testify that once you clear it the challenge disappears overnight and that it is not unrealistic to get leaderboard scores in the span of a week after your first clear.
What more can you say beyond 'git gud or git out'.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is a result of making 95% of the pve far too easy to the point were people just faceroll it.
How many have actually struggled with pve before getting to the end game points? People would be so used to just light attacking their way through the game they by the time they get to hard content they haven't developed any knowledge or skills to actually have a good go at it.
They die a few times (which they aren't used too), they fear dying too much and quit far too easy.
I've read through he majority of this thread but basically your saying you don't want it nerfed yet you kind of do?
You want the much easier versions such as normal maelstrom to drop msa weps which defeats the purpose of vet msa because normal msa is so easy you can do it on a near naked magplar with just sweeps (which i've done). There will be little risk, all rewards with no difficult (like 95% of the game).
Now you've got good player giving you advice to 5 pages and yet you refuse to listen to them and instead still want it nerfed (or drops in normal mode) etc...
Your problem is this:
Your build isn't optimised, for running a sub par build with sub par gear and its making it harder than it needs to be, A pet sorc should still be easy mode and you basically keep shields up, throw dots down and heavy attack with a lightning staff while pets kill everything.
You lack knowledge, for the first time your build and knowledge of skill rotations and when to heavy attack etc... is actually needed and because of how easy the game it you don't have them or haven't developed them properly.
You lack knowledge about the content, everyone is bad at msa when they first start, took me around 80 deaths and 6 hours to get msa down the first time when it first came out. The more you do it the better you come, you know where the dangerous mobs spawn and can basically burst them instantly. You know when you can burst a boss etc... Use all the powerups the first few times thats what they are there for.
Your giving up far too easily, msa may be hard but it's nothing to learning some of the end game trials, groups wipe dozens of times and usually its not your fault, it's because someone else made a mistake which causes a whole group wipe. If you don't have the patience for VMSA your not going to have the patience for Vet trials.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Vrienda✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just wish they'd give us a reason to do the Normal mode versions of trials, as it stands we don't really get anything. Veteran mode gets all the cool skins, polymorphs etc.. Normal doesn't even get an earring.Desperate for Roleplaying servers to bring open world non-organised RP to Elder Scrolls Online. Please ZOS.1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just wish they'd give us a reason to do the Normal mode versions of trials, as it stands we don't really get anything. Veteran mode gets all the cool skins, polymorphs etc.. Normal doesn't even get an earring.
Funny. I was under impression it's the direct opposite. Normal gives you all the same sets, so why even bother running vet once you got your complete and jewelry? People always farm normal, not vet, from my understanding.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just wish they'd give us a reason to do the Normal mode versions of trials, as it stands we don't really get anything. Veteran mode gets all the cool skins, polymorphs etc.. Normal doesn't even get an earring.
You get a title.
Normal mode is super super easy and is basically training wheels so you get used to the mechanicsPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.
Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.
My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.
False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.
Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).
If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.
Best laugh I've had all day.
People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".
Show me one thread on these forums where a person legitimately asked for help, not cried for nerfs, and got trolled to death rather than being helped.
Heck even in this thread OP got some very good advices already despite his tone and got offered more had he felt like asking specific questions regarding what's giving him issues beyond generic "it's too hard for me so it needs nerfed".
(Plot twist, I hate vMA. I've completed it on my magsorc and I must've died several thousand times. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)
I could probably if I sat down and looked but lets be real honest, the people helping are in the minority. Community sucks, buddy, lets not pretend it dont. I saw some recently but I cant remember what thread it was. Go to the help section and watch for the trolling, it's there. Otherwise, your agressive pushing of the narrative that the OP is yelling for it to be nerfed because he cant beat it is all the evidence in the world.
Show me an actual arguement as to why the content shouldn't be brought in line with what ZOS is attempting to make the adverage/adverage peak for DPS this patch. Show me why it shouldn't be edited.
On the subject of the thread itself, lets be honest, your not interested in an arguement on the subject. You decided the truth allready, not gonna waste the time it'd take to argue it.
Love how people are jumping down my throat like I'm making some sort of grand point about the difficulty, though. (People trying to throw me under the bus by going 'he supports the OP!' like this is some sort of friggin crime against nature.) Fact is, we're working with one half of a stat crunch. The content needs to be edited, end of story. Maybe not nerfed, but brought in line with what the devs expect the adverage low/high of player DPS to be. Like most of the content. It needs edited, people, change is scary, we get it, but your knee jerk reaction isn't going to help the game grow.
o.O No, it actually does not. I'm actually pretty amazed by these forums, for all the issues with the game and whatnot...the community is upset, frustrated, lashing out at the devs a lot when unfunctioning game just gets too much but in my 3 years on these forums I have never once seen anyone get trolled down for legitimately asking for help. I've seen people going way out of their way writing walls of text to explain mechanics, even making videos for specific questions, I've seen people offering to craft gear for free, get someone through a dungeon(I've done this many a time myself).....now it doesn't stand to say there're no idiots or jerks here but when people ask for help they generally get it. When people ask for nerfs for content others enjoy instead and refuse to listen to advices - then people often turn hostile.
As for why content shouldn't be nerfed - I'm genuinely not sure I follow, why should it be nerfed? Zenimax was clearly unhappy with how easy most of the content has become so they nerfed us. Now you can argue this was not needed, however it seems it'd extremely controversial for them to nerf content now when clearly their goal was to make content harder.
Btw there're still people pulling 40k dps self buffed this patch. (And no, it's not me.) And there're guilds completing newest trial on vet already. Why does the content need editing?
In my opinion the "truth" is we all would be wise to remember there exist other people with opinions possibly different from our own, and they deserve content they enjoy as much as we do. The game has to provide for everyone. For someone not having a lot of time or not wanting to dedicate a lot of effort to a video-game(nothing wrong with that) they made normal modes of literally everything, even trials. For those wanting a bit more of a challenge, there's vet content. Personally, I feel normal content needs to be buffed at least tenfold because to me it's boring as heck but there're people who like it that way so it's okay, I'll just play veteran instead. Why cannot op adapt the same philosophy? There're obviously heaps of people who rather enjoy MA at its current difficulty. Why are their preferences less important?
Exept it wasn't to make the content harder.
@Magdalina Had you any attention span if you read the patch notes, the phrase that comes up frequently is 'lower the ceiling, raise the floor'. Zenimaxes goal has been making it -easier- for people to complete, now whether or not this is working or not is up for debate. (It isn't, In my opinion.) But what one cannot deny is making the content harder via nerfing the player isn't going to raise the floor or lower the ceiling.
There's Opinion, then there's the age old arguement. For those that are not the elite, our fun comes at the cost of theirs. This is how it has allways been. People who get off on feeling big and pushing themselves until they crest that mountain so they can lord it over the rest of us, are only happy when that mountain isn't passable by the vast majority. It has nothing to do with Opinion. It has everything to do with cause and effect.
Edit: I'm not even talking about veteran here. The resource effect changes screw everyone. It's becoming the fundemental design, focused on a minority of hardcore yahoo's. And it boggles the mind.
Lol. Nice jab. Yes I've read the patch notes and found ZOS comments a bit silly. I'd imagine they thought they'd nerf an "elite" player far more than they would a "casual", which partially stands to reason I guess - light attacking mobs in the world is now even more effective with light attacks' buff and has 0 resource management issues
I'm still at a loss as for how existence of challenging content ruins your fun. You can light attack nMA to death with most any build out there. See all the story, get a slight glimpse of mechanics and a complete. There's nothing hardcore nor challenging about it, and THAT is a fact. And notice that I'm not saying it should be buffed nor that the existence of such faceroll easy content ruins my game. Yet you insist that existence of content such as vMA ruins it for you. Boggles my mind, really.
Also, "fundamental desin"? The fundamental design at this point is pretty much light attacking everything to death, only exceptions are vet dungeons(mainly dlc ones), vet trials and vMA. All of which can be done in normal mode. I fail to see why the sole existence of more challenging option(optional one mind you) is so detrimental to you having fun in the game.
Btw, if you want to start the whole "evil l33ts killing our fun" argument, it's the opposite of truth. ZOS has been doing everything it can to cater to most casual playstyle possible(which I don't approve of but it is what it is). Main story has been nerfed from challemnging endeavour forcing you to progress your character into another light attack fest. Original vet zones have been nerfed into nothing. Craglorn has been nerfed because people couldn't live with having a zone where you could actually die if you went there alone and unprepared. Vet dungeons have been nerfed to just...lawl state. Ever seen 1.5 vet dungeons? Try to compare them to current ones and then tell me more about how ZOS exclusively caters to hardcore playerbaase. Normal versions of all vet dungeons have been introduced(as have been vet of all old non vets. I approve of this change on the whole, it's a great one). Normal Trials have been introduced. Imperial City mobs have been nerfed(why is honestly mind boggling to me, was the very last zone where it was actually challenging to face mobs alone, literally ONLY place in game...and they nerfed that too). Imperial City dungeons have been nerfed at least half a dozen times, you should've seen them at launch. Basically only things that more or less haven't been nerfed are SotH dungeons, vet trials(?) and vMA(which has also become easier overtime because originally it was designed for players with way lower and not "front loaded" cp).
I know that my fun and challenge has been ruined dozens of times because people wanted easier content everywhere, even in optionally veteran mode, I fail to see how anyone can complain that this game "caters to the hardcore". Are we even playing the same game?
Great post, pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.1
