Master-at-Arms and DoTs

PlagueSD · May 2017

How to determine if something is Direct Damage or DoT.

Direct damage = You have to stay in range and spam ability.
DoT = You hit the ability and then you can go do something else.

deleted220103-006055 · May 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

How to determine if something is Direct Damage or DoT.Direct damage = You have to stay in range and spam ability.

DoT = You hit the ability and then you can go do something else.

Yet Ground AoE, Point-blank AoE, and Returned damage all fit your definition of "DoT" yet are buffed by Master-at-Arms not by Thaumaturge.

PlagueSD · May 2017

SunDrenched wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

How to determine if something is Direct Damage or DoT.Direct damage = You have to stay in range and spam ability.

DoT = You hit the ability and then you can go do something else.

Yet Ground AoE, Point-blank AoE, and Returned damage all fit your definition of "DoT" yet are buffed by Master-at-Arms not by Thaumaturge.

If it does X damage it's direct damage.
If it does X damage and then Y damage over Z seconds, only the first tick is direct damage...Then it turns into a DoT.
If it does X damage over Y seconds, it's a DoT

Better???

crobarXIII · May 2017

So does thaumaturge only work on single target dots? While master at arms works on single target burst & both aoe burst & aoe dots?

Patouf · May 2017

DOTs = channeled or over time, except for the NB path

Direct damage is ither category... pretty simple to know

Soleya · May 2017

Puncturing Sweeps is boosted by both Master at Arms and Thaurmaturge. I tested it on live before spending CP.

Avran_Sylt · May 2017

Direct Damage: Yellow Crit or White Numbers
DoT: Orange Numbers.

FrancisCrawford · May 2017

SunDrenched wrote: »

Just to fill in the picture, Thaumaturge has no effect on any part of Eruption, Volley, or Caltrops; but does up Flurry.

So, a "damage over time" effect is something you "inject" into an enemy which then damages it from within. This is not then "direct damage."

Ground AoE damage from "without" and so are not "true" DoTs.

Flurry I guess is a peculiar exception.

Not Volley. Wow. That's about as pure a DoT as I can imagine.

How about Elemental Blockade?

Patouf · May 2017

Soleya wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps is boosted by both Master at Arms and Thaurmaturge. I tested it on live before spending CP.

Check burning light templar passives ?

tplink3r1 · May 2017

acw37162 wrote: »

Glass wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Btw guys, non DoT AoE are considered Direct Damage. And AoE DoT with their dmg going out every other second and not every second is also direct damage, an example Lightningform is every 1s and so its not a Direct Damage, Bladecloak is every 3s and is considered Direct Damage, how do I know? It proced Selene. It also was blockable while lightningform was not. Not sure that if it procs selenes means 100% that master at arms would buff it but it would be consistent with what I have seen. Further testing on all abilities needs to be done in as sterile of an environment as can be found.

Indeed it doesn't mean is direct dmg if procs Selene's. Jabs procs Selene's and Valkyn Skoria, it is just another inconsistency like Twisting Path procking Scathing Mage or as I tested yesterday Daedric Mines procs Valkyn Skoria and so does Endless Fury explosion.
I think the only way to test it is with a dummy taking champion points in and out and check number difference for each skill.

Jabs does not proc Selena's the burning light passive from the Templar skill line procs Selena's

How do you know?

WatchYourSixx · May 2017

FFS stop spreading misinformation.

A DoT is just that, damage over time. Any ability that is damage over time that is not being buffed by thaum needs to be bug reported to ZoS. The only ability that is known to be a damage over time but not buffed by thaum is Twisting Path.

Zenimax knows it, and they aren't changing it. Really they should change the tooltip to reflect that, but still.

Any other ability that is damage over a period of time, consistently, for the duration of the skill, should be buffed by thaum. Simple as that.

Same goes for direct damage abilities. If it's a Direct damaging ability meaning that it deals damage on cast, or damage at the end of cast (ex. channel), or damage AFTER time (ex. sorc curse), then it should be buffed by master at arms. If it is not, then it needs to be reported to Zenimax.

Certain abilities have both components, as well as a few abilities benefiting from both stars on the same damage component of said skill. Ex. Jabs. The damage from jabs with nothing but a point spent into the jabs skill, is increased by both stars. This is unintentional and should be reported to Zenimax.

In the meantime, if you really care that much about what is and isn't a dot based on CP, go naked, no passives spent on your character, and just test each ability. You can record the damage on every single ability available to you, then spend CP in master or thaum to 10% increase. Compare your damage numbers. The ones that go up 10% are buffed by that Star. Do same thing for the next Star, not respeccing CP, and see which remaining abilities go up by 10%. Then go back over the first set that were increased, and see if any abilities go up another 10%. If they do, they're buffed by both.

If the abilities buffed by whichever Star do not match what I said above about the behavior of damage, and so not fall into the category of both components, then it needs to be reported.

Don't say what is or isn't a dot. Prove it! And keep in mind that all CP stars round down to the nearest whole number.. so make sure you spend enough to even increase it in the first place.

Waiting for an official list will never come.
Waiting for an official response will probably never come.

Wall of elements is a dot. Eruption is direct damage followed by a dot. Volley is a dot...

Test it yourself. Please don't spread misinformation.

Avran_Sylt · May 2017

@WatchYourSixx

I'd also advise against you spreading misinformation. Abilities like Volley, Caltrop are all direct damage.

Seriously, it makes no freakin' sense but they are considered direct damage. I just checked on live by resetting my CP star in Master-at-arms.

All abilities that say they deal [x] damage every [y] seconds are usually Direct damage abilities , that deal damage over a duration. Those should be DoTs, but they are not. If they say [x] damage over [y] seconds, they are usually considered DoTs.

Goshua · May 2017

I have also tried to find out more about this without officially confirmed answers merely brainstormed theory's by other curious people.

Soleya · May 2017

Patouf wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

Puncturing Sweeps is boosted by both Master at Arms and Thaurmaturge. I tested it on live before spending CP.

Check burning light templar passives ?

I looked at the damage of each of the strikes. Increased Thurmautrge 1% and all of those damage values went up. Then I did the same with Master at Arms with same result.

Since Burning Light is a 25% chance, I'd be surprised if it procced 100% of the time on every single strike. Also believe it shows up as a separate damage number. And the damage increases I was seeing were roughly 1% more.

Wolfenbelle · May 2017

I hope this information helps clear up some of the confusion:

If an ability tool tip says it "Deals X damage over Y seconds" it's a Damage over Time ability and is affected by Thaumaturge.

If an ability tool tip says it "Deals X damage" it is a Direct Damage ability and is affected by Master-At-Arms. It's anything that deals a fixed amount of damage.

AoE = Any ability that deals damage to multiple targets within a given area, an AoE can be combined with the other damage types to become an AOE/DD or an AOE/DoT.

You also have Cone Effect, this is a type of AOE ability that only affects the forward arc in front of the player, it can also be a CE/DD or a CE/DoT.

Gilliamtherogue · May 2017

There seems to be a lot of misinformation going on in this thread. To show some actual values of LIVE MORROWIND testing, here are my perimeters.

Khajiit Nightblade, no gear other than 2 gold VMA Daggers worn to assure no damage fluctuations. Maelstrom Bow used, but only referenced the final tick to ensure no enchant disparities. All bars kept identical through testing, CP allocations identical other than test perimeters. Results;

No blue CP;

Light Attack: 1976 crit
Rending Slashes: 1737 crit
Deadly Cloak: 1644 crit
Razor Caltrops (DoT tick not initial hit): 1109 crit
Rearming Trap (ensured it was not running while testing other DoTs): 1693 crit
Rend: 3276 crit
Rapid Strikes' final hit: 2805 crit
Endless Hail's final tick: 1338 crit

40 points into Thaumatuge, nothing else (16.02% listed gain);
Light Attack: 1976 crit, 0 gain
Rending Slashes: 2014 crit, 15.947% gain
Deadly Cloak: 1907 crit, 15.997% gain
Razor Caltrops (DoT tick not initial hit): 1286 crit , 15.960% gain
Rearming Trap (ensured it was not running while testing other DoTs): 1963 crit, 15.948% gain
Rend: 3799 crit, 15.964% gain
Rapid Strikes' final hit: 2913 crit, 3.85% gain
Endless Hail's final tick: 1551 crit, 15.919% gain

40 points into Master-at-Arms, nothing else (16.02% listed gain)
Light Attack: 2292 crit, 15.992% gain
Rending Slashes: 1737 crit, 0 gain
Deadly Cloak: 1644 crit, 0 gain
Razor Caltrops (DoT tick not initial hit): 1109 crit, 0 gain
Rearming Trap (ensured it was not running while testing other DoTs): 1693 crit, 0 gain
Rend: 3276 crit, 0 gain
Rapid Strikes' final hit: 2805 crit, 0 gain
Endless Hail's final tick: 1338 crit, 0 gain

Conclusion; Anything that hits multiple times over a duration (a few exceptions include Twisting Path, Haunting Curse) are considered DoTs, regardless of AoE or single target applied.

Anything that hits once per cast PER target hit is considered Direct Damage.

Why the weird % for Rapid Strikes? This is because Thaumaturge applies directly to the original hit of the skill, and the skill has a built in % amp as subsequent hits land, making it a % of a %, causing it to get a lesser effect than listed.

Hope this clears up confusion