Combat slow after patch

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

The latest changes have slowed combat down yet again, making it less dynamic. It's become too much about resource micromanagement, and less about skillful play. The majority of spam specs, based on hammering 1 maybe 2 skills are still viable, while other specs based on player skill, situational awareness ect, have been severely hampered by the changes. This is obviously a change in the wrong direction

The reason they are getting it wrong, is an insistence on balancing PvE and PvP play together. The scenarios, tactics, objective, and dynamics in each are so vastly different, that balancing both together is very nearly impossible. And absolutely impossible if you want to keep spec variation and player choice as paramount.

The Elder Scrolls Online, and it's players deserve better, and can be given better.

Myyth · May 2017

I agree, I tried out my magicaka sorcerer with full points in magicka, seducer gear, full CP points in mana regen yet I still run out of magicka after casting a couple spells.

Combat starts, I cast maybe 5 spells, Magicka bar empty. Then the rest of the fight I'm using light and heavy attacks with the odd spell every now and then. Its not very dynamic or fun anymore, feels more like I'm playing an old school video game where you press one red button continuously to fire your light/heavy attack.

Keep_Door · May 2017

I think i would consider resource management part of skillful play.

Myyth · May 2017

Keep_Door wrote: »

I think i would consider resource management part of boring play.

fixed it for you

Linken · May 2017

So basicly by your theory it was more skill involved when you could spamm away skills without having to manage your resources behind it?

If anything the new depth needed to manage your resources again the gap beetween bad and good players will be bigger again at least that is how i see it.

jircris11 · May 2017

Learn to manage your resource bar. My sorc,nb and dk are just fine. Dungeons are a bit more tricky but not overly hard. People are just mad ez mode is gone

Avran_Sylt · May 2017

May have to trade full-damage for some sustain, such as spell damage glyphs for magicka regen glyphs.

HuawaSepp · May 2017

jircris11 wrote: »

Learn to manage your resource bar. My sorc,nb and dk are just fine. Dungeons are a bit more tricky but not overly hard. People are just mad ez mode is gone

Wrong, dungeons are exactly the same. Dmg is a bit lower but that does not matter.
The trials are the thing where you have to to heavy attacks(=resource management) for best dps.
So resource management force you to just hold down the left mouse button and wait...

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

Linken wrote: »

So basicly by your theory it was more skill involved when you could spamm away skills without having to manage your resources behind it?

If anything the new depth needed to manage your resources again the gap beetween bad and good players will be bigger again at least that is how i see it.

Spam play still 100% viable. Play involving situational skill use, less viable. Tanking has become boring. Changes overall don't meet their stated aim. watching bars is not fun, reacting to in world situations, bashing, dodging, using skills. Rather than watching bars, and heavy attacking. Holding a mouse button requires little skill, reacting to events, using skills situational uses far more skill.

So yes, resource management requires less skill, and is less fun.

hal2031 · May 2017

I find its more interesting now instead of using only the big impact skill u have to look at how much stam or magicka it use so more variety in the number of skill you can use instead of spamming always the same thing.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2017

hal2031 wrote: »

I find its more interesting now instead of using only the big impact skill u have to look at how much stam or magicka it use so more variety in the number of skill you can use instead of spamming always the same thing.

So you have a bar full of attacks that go from high cost to low cost to use as you run out of resources? That seems sort of strange.

Linken · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Spam play still 100% viable. Play involving situational skill use, less viable. Tanking has become boring. Changes overall don't meet their stated aim. watching bars is not fun, reacting to in world situations, bashing, dodging, using skills. Rather than watching bars, and heavy attacking. Holding a mouse button requires little skill, reacting to events, using skills situational uses far more skill.

So yes, resource management requires less skill, and is less fun.

Well if you want to spamm now you will have to sac dmg for sustain.

Tanking becoming boring are more of a personal mather and if you take into that if you need to heavy attack for resources that leaves you open so you will have to time it beetween blocks.

And heavy attacking in PvP leaves you open for counter so that means a higher skillcap to do it at the right moment.

Watching bars might not be that fun but compared to any other mmo playing at the highest lvl (pve) its usually a fight against your UI and not the game it self.

Coilbox · May 2017

jircris11 wrote: »

Learn to manage your resource bar. My sorc,nb and dk are just fine. Dungeons are a bit more tricky but not overly hard. People are just mad ez mode is gone

This 'people cry cos ez mode is gone' attitude is getting a bit old and stinky. Makes absolutely no sense and sounds, if you allow me to say, preposterous.

Almost everyone agrees on the opinion that adapting to these changes is very easy, 'spamming skills is still possible', 'you just need to put a couple of heavy attacks in between your rotations', 'dungeons are a bit more tricky but not overly hard' (this very last came from you...) so how the *** you claim the ez mode is gone, if it's still so easy? only thing i see here is the attitude of.. 'hey look how mature i am, i adapt without crying you immature crowd, learn to play...'.

Well excuse me but what most people claim here is that even when the purpose of these changes were aiming a more challenging combat... resulted in a utterly boring, slow and less rewarding one. Only thing you need to do is put a couple heavy attacks here and there and maybe throw a cost reduction enchants.
The mechanics are the same, the bosses do exactly the same, there absolutely nothing more exciting or challenging.

So save us the 'ez mode is gone' cool attitude, cause its still the same easy. Its just slower, more boring. We all know how to addapt.

Lord-Otto · May 2017

This is no game for resource management.

Look at Skyrim. The destro spells come in single-target, AoE and channel. You must precisely choose the right damage delivery type for the right situation: Firebolt for single or spread-out enemies. Fireball for stacked groups. Lightning Storm if you need to channel all of your resources, disregarding efficiency.
This is both resource management and situational awareness. Skyrim lacks diversive spells, but it understands this concept.

ESO? First, you don't even have the skill slots to pull this off. With all the needless skills you must equip to achieve one goal, this has been unrealistic from the get go. Three shields just to stay alive? Wouldn't one shield that is big and heals me be enough, so I could slot Elemental Ring for situations against zergs?

This game here found an acceptable compromise in accentuating heavy attacks' value... but I can only look down on this solution in the light of true resource management. It's a fârce that is being forced down our throats. You HAVE to heavy attack. You HAVE to use sustain gear. There is little decision, evaluation in your actions. Thus making the gameplay unnecessarily shallow and more about executing a macro instead of using your awareness.

newtinmpls · May 2017

Myyth wrote: »

Combat starts, I cast maybe 5 spells, Magicka bar empty. Then the rest of the fight I'm using light and heavy attacks with the odd spell every now and then.

Sigh.

Why wait so long to start weaving for resource management?

Myyth · May 2017

I agree the changes have not made combat more challenging. All its done is slow things down, make it more repetitive and forced me to remove spells from my rotation making it less complex and boring.

For example, I used to start combat by casting buff and defensive spells, then I would cast and lay down all my DoT's, then I would cast and spam all my direct damage attacks until I had to re apply buffs and DoTs, then repeat. During this rotation I would be pressing buttons fast clicking and casting spells in a certain rotation. It was fun!

Now, after patch, I cast my buffs and defensive spells, cast a DOT....and then that's it! I am out of magicka! Then comes the boring part of casting repetitive light and heavy attacks skillfully pressing one button until I get a bit of magicka to cast a couple spells, then no more magicka. Back to pressing one button again! This does not make the game more interesting or challenging.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

Linken wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Spam play still 100% viable. Play involving situational skill use, less viable. Tanking has become boring. Changes overall don't meet their stated aim. watching bars is not fun, reacting to in world situations, bashing, dodging, using skills. Rather than watching bars, and heavy attacking. Holding a mouse button requires little skill, reacting to events, using skills situational uses far more skill.

So yes, resource management requires less skill, and is less fun.

Well if you want to spamm now you will have to sac dmg for sustain.

Tanking becoming boring are more of a personal mather and if you take into that if you need to heavy attack for resources that leaves you open so you will have to time it beetween blocks.

And heavy attacking in PvP leaves you open for counter so that means a higher skillcap to do it at the right moment.

Watching bars might not be that fun but compared to any other mmo playing at the highest lvl (pve) its usually a fight against your UI and not the game it self.

It's not about timing it, it's about only being able to block, heavy attack and taunts. To manage my stam, I have no time to use all the skills I have. Play has become more 1 dimensional as a result of these changes. Combat is also slower, and less dynamic, and spamming still pay off more than situational play. These changes make the game less fun, more unbalanced (burn sorc anyone?) and less fun.

Trying to balance PvP and PvE together makes zero sense. The two style of play are fundamentally different, the situations that arise are almost always totally different, the objectives are often totally different, the two do not equate.

Docmandu · May 2017

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Holding a mouse button requires little skill, reacting to events, using skills situational uses far more skill.

I remember when block got nerfed so that you don't regen stamina anymore... same posts, blaming either PvE or PvP gameplay for what it was nerfed. Yet that nerf was about being able to hold block constantly and ignore mechanics, exactly the opposite of reacting to events, using situational awareness.

Fast forward a couple of months.. something else got changed.. and it's the same posts again... people blaming either PvP or PvE and justifying it some way or the other, instead of trying to adapt and just trying it out for a few days / weeks.

And while I don't like the changes myself.. I'm holding judgement until I've played a bit more.. and I'm not going to blame PvE players for it. I think resource management needed some attention, but typical ZOS, they took it too far. Before you could basically ignore your resource pool and never run out.

kongkim · May 2017

I lige the new patch and don't really have problems with substain.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

Docmandu wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Holding a mouse button requires little skill, reacting to events, using skills situational uses far more skill.

I remember when block got nerfed so that you don't regen stamina anymore... same posts, blaming either PvE or PvP gameplay for what it was nerfed. Yet that nerf was about being able to hold block constantly and ignore mechanics, exactly the opposite of reacting to events, using situational awareness.

Fast forward a couple of months.. something else got changed.. and it's the same posts again... people blaming either PvP or PvE and justifying it some way or the other, instead of trying to adapt and just trying it out for a few days / weeks.

And while I don't like the changes myself.. I'm holding judgement until I've played a bit more.. and I'm not going to blame PvE players for it. I think resource management needed some attention, but typical ZOS, they took it too far. Before you could basically ignore your resource pool and never run out.

I did not, and do not "just hold block", yet another accusation post, trying to undermine legitimate feedback.

Justify why you disagree that balancing PvP and PvE content does not make sense. Explain how the two styles of play are equivalent, Explain how using far few skills requires more skill, explain how watching bars is more fun than using skills. Explain how spam heavy attacking is more fun than using skills.

To be clear, I can still play all my characters, get them through dungeons, ect. But in most cases, these changes have made it less fun, slower. All high dps burn builds have to do now, is stand still between combats. That requires literally no skill what so ever. Meanwhile, specs that had variety, situational skill, that rewarded skillful play, and were fun are I can only believe, unintentionally harmed by the changes.

kunquatb16_ESO · May 2017

kongkim wrote: »

I lige the new patch and don't really have problems with substain.

I don't have a problem with sustain either. I just find watching bars boring. Plus if I really liked watching bars, I can install programs to watch the bars fill up, then uninstall, repeat.