leepalmer95 wrote: »

Queo wrote: »

Not that it matters to me... but didnt they say in the last eso live they were going to buff the magic warden, becasue it was so under power?

Yes and they did, but why nerf stamina warden.

The magicka cliff racer morph now does 21% more dmg than the stamina one if you compared a stam vs mag warden with the same stats, 15% from the magicka morph bonus where as stamina doesn't get any morph bonus

and now 6% from the passive where as stamina lost it's 6%.

Zos changed dk's passive to both fire and poison because of the dk's stamina posions skills so why would they take thet diversity away from warden and have a passive useless for stam wardens as it only buffs the magicka skills. Ice + magicka?

casparian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you feel somehow forced to use that as a stamina build?

It's a passive. It used to be like sorcerers' Energized passive, and this change affects stam wardens about as negatively as changing Energized to not buff physical damage would affect stam sorcs. It's not a question of whether or not stam wardens are forced to use a passive, it's that a big benefit to them was removed.

Saturn wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you feel somehow forced to use that as a stamina build?

It's a passive. It used to be like sorcerers' Energized passive, and this change affects stam wardens about as negatively as changing Energized to not buff physical damage would affect stam sorcs. It's not a question of whether or not stam wardens are forced to use a passive, it's that a big benefit to them was removed.

To be fair, stam sorcs in PvE aren't doing amazingly either since the One Tamriel / Homestead nerfs.

jaburns wrote: »

While we're arguing about passives that boost raw damage, let's look at what each classes passive does:

Templar, Balanced Warrior: Increases Weapon Damage by 6%

Dragonknight, World In Ruin: Increases Fire and Poison AOE Damage by 6%.

Sorcerer, Energized: Increases Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Expert Mage: Increases Weapons and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorc ability slotted.

Nightblade, Pressure Points: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical ratings by ### for each assassin ability slotted.
Hemorrhage: Increases Damage dealt by Critical Strikes by 10% with an assassin ability slotted.

Warden, Piercing Cold: Increases your Magic and Cold damage by 6%.

As you see- they're all pretty diverse. Warden's passive being somewhat close to a DK's passive while Templar is comparable to a Sorcerer. Nightblade's is just way the hell out there- so, maybe they'll come up with a class that's somewhat comparable one day?

And, as you know, each class gives some sort of secondary effect to allies. (ie: Minor sorcery, minor toughness, minor savagery, minor prophecy, minor brutality)

So, each class does get it's own boost in raw damage- but each has limited effects (and sometimes certain requirements for the damage). While Templars get a flat increase to weapon damage from Balanced Warrior- they don't get any increase in magic, elemental, or poison damage. DKs only get the increase in AOE Fire and Poison damage... but they don't get any other physical, magic, or elemental direct/AOE damage. Sorcs are probably the luckiest because they get a pure increase in weapon/physical and spell/shock damage... but I hate Sorcs (so I'm bias) Nightblades have pretty strict requirements for their increase- but, man, when they stick with the requirements- it hits hard! Finally, Wardens get an overall increase in Magic and Cold damage... but don't really benefit from physical or poison.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Can we at least see how this change plays out?

You know, like so many of you insisted I do for all these Morrowind nerfs before passing judgement.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Stop nerfing Stam to buff magika. Don't need magika to buff stamina either. This is why there is such a divide between the community in this game. ZoS puts stamina and magika players against each other for ???? Then wonders why they've got such a toxic playerbase

Koolio wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Like stam sorcs only leveling summoning tree for reduced ultimate cost?

Galwylin wrote: »

My god, you make them sound like soulless life sucking aliens or something.... I'm sure they have a soul.

jaburns wrote: »

While we're arguing about passives that boost raw damage, let's look at what each classes passive does:

Templar, Balanced Warrior: Increases Weapon Damage by 6%

Dragonknight, World In Ruin: Increases Fire and Poison AOE Damage by 6%.

Sorcerer, Energized: Increases Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Expert Mage: Increases Weapons and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorc ability slotted.

Nightblade, Pressure Points: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical ratings by ### for each assassin ability slotted.
Hemorrhage: Increases Damage dealt by Critical Strikes by 10% with an assassin ability slotted.

Warden, Piercing Cold: Increases your Magic and Cold damage by 6%.

As you see- they're all pretty diverse. Warden's passive being somewhat close to a DK's passive while Templar is comparable to a Sorcerer. Nightblade's is just way the hell out there- so, maybe they'll come up with a class that's somewhat comparable one day?

And, as you know, each class gives some sort of secondary effect to allies. (ie: Minor sorcery, minor toughness, minor savagery, minor prophecy, minor brutality)

So, each class does get it's own boost in raw damage- but each has limited effects (and sometimes certain requirements for the damage). While Templars get a flat increase to weapon damage from Balanced Warrior- they don't get any increase in magic, elemental, or poison damage. DKs only get the increase in AOE Fire and Poison damage... but they don't get any other physical, magic, or elemental direct/AOE damage. Sorcs are probably the luckiest because they get a pure increase in weapon/physical and spell/shock damage... but I hate Sorcs (so I'm bias) Nightblades have pretty strict requirements for their increase- but, man, when they stick with the requirements- it hits hard! Finally, Wardens get an overall increase in Magic and Cold damage... but don't really benefit from physical or poison.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

While we're arguing about passives that boost raw damage, let's look at what each classes passive does:

Templar, Balanced Warrior: Increases Weapon Damage by 6%

Dragonknight, World In Ruin: Increases Fire and Poison AOE Damage by 6%.

Sorcerer, Energized: Increases Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Expert Mage: Increases Weapons and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorc ability slotted.

Nightblade, Pressure Points: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical ratings by ### for each assassin ability slotted.
Hemorrhage: Increases Damage dealt by Critical Strikes by 10% with an assassin ability slotted.

Warden, Piercing Cold: Increases your Magic and Cold damage by 6%.

As you see- they're all pretty diverse. Warden's passive being somewhat close to a DK's passive while Templar is comparable to a Sorcerer. Nightblade's is just way the hell out there- so, maybe they'll come up with a class that's somewhat comparable one day?

And, as you know, each class gives some sort of secondary effect to allies. (ie: Minor sorcery, minor toughness, minor savagery, minor prophecy, minor brutality)

So, each class does get it's own boost in raw damage- but each has limited effects (and sometimes certain requirements for the damage). While Templars get a flat increase to weapon damage from Balanced Warrior- they don't get any increase in magic, elemental, or poison damage. DKs only get the increase in AOE Fire and Poison damage... but they don't get any other physical, magic, or elemental direct/AOE damage. Sorcs are probably the luckiest because they get a pure increase in weapon/physical and spell/shock damage... but I hate Sorcs (so I'm bias) Nightblades have pretty strict requirements for their increase- but, man, when they stick with the requirements- it hits hard! Finally, Wardens get an overall increase in Magic and Cold damage... but don't really benefit from physical or poison.

Templars also get Crit Damage bonus passive.

Really there is a host of passive benefits as well as skill buffs not really covered by simply looking at damage passives.


Sorcerers do have the best all around spread for stamina support despite having no direct damage stamina skill. With strong support passives and strong healing and resource management they extend the capabilities of the weapon lines.

NB's have the best stamina utility morphs, gap closer, execute, direct damage single target, AOE+buff, self buff+ranged damage, cheap single target ult. They lack healing support and most of the debuffs and buffs they can provide themselves are provided by group support in PVE situations, which make them a slightly weaker option for group play.

DK's have the best sustained PVE dps and strong survival, the dps is a function of both a strong buff ultimate and super strong single target DOT. They lack stamina utility and passive support, but strong DOT's and healing buffs make them very strong in very specific builds.

Templar's have lesser utility than NB's, with ranged knock down and ranged debuff, but have better survivability with cheap purge and Minor Mending, they are more of a medium ground between the previous three.


Warden appears to be a sort of medium between a DK and a Templar. As stamina Templars have suffered in the past from being not very good at anything in particular, so also Wardens will likely suffer from being mediocre at everything.

Of the classes Warden will have the easiest access to Major Mending, and is the only one with a class based stamina heal. They should be quite potent at group support. If they were any better at DPS then everyone would be rolling Wardens because of the group utility they offer.

Most raids will want at least one, possibly two for Major Mending, Minor Toughness, and AOE major Resolve/Ward buffs. In PVP every ball group is going to want Wardens for the same reasons but even more so for PermaFrost, 70% snare, AOE stun, AOE damage, AOE damage reduction for allies.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

While we're arguing about passives that boost raw damage, let's look at what each classes passive does:

Templar, Balanced Warrior: Increases Weapon Damage by 6%

Dragonknight, World In Ruin: Increases Fire and Poison AOE Damage by 6%.

Sorcerer, Energized: Increases Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Expert Mage: Increases Weapons and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorc ability slotted.

Nightblade, Pressure Points: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical ratings by ### for each assassin ability slotted.
Hemorrhage: Increases Damage dealt by Critical Strikes by 10% with an assassin ability slotted.

Warden, Piercing Cold: Increases your Magic and Cold damage by 6%.

As you see- they're all pretty diverse. Warden's passive being somewhat close to a DK's passive while Templar is comparable to a Sorcerer. Nightblade's is just way the hell out there- so, maybe they'll come up with a class that's somewhat comparable one day?

And, as you know, each class gives some sort of secondary effect to allies. (ie: Minor sorcery, minor toughness, minor savagery, minor prophecy, minor brutality)

So, each class does get it's own boost in raw damage- but each has limited effects (and sometimes certain requirements for the damage). While Templars get a flat increase to weapon damage from Balanced Warrior- they don't get any increase in magic, elemental, or poison damage. DKs only get the increase in AOE Fire and Poison damage... but they don't get any other physical, magic, or elemental direct/AOE damage. Sorcs are probably the luckiest because they get a pure increase in weapon/physical and spell/shock damage... but I hate Sorcs (so I'm bias) Nightblades have pretty strict requirements for their increase- but, man, when they stick with the requirements- it hits hard! Finally, Wardens get an overall increase in Magic and Cold damage... but don't really benefit from physical or poison.

Templars also get Crit Damage bonus passive.

Really there is a host of passive benefits as well as skill buffs not really covered by simply looking at damage passives.


Sorcerers do have the best all around spread for stamina support despite having no direct damage stamina skill. With strong support passives and strong healing and resource management they extend the capabilities of the weapon lines.

NB's have the best stamina utility morphs, gap closer, execute, direct damage single target, AOE+buff, self buff+ranged damage, cheap single target ult. They lack healing support and most of the debuffs and buffs they can provide themselves are provided by group support in PVE situations, which make them a slightly weaker option for group play.

DK's have the best sustained PVE dps and strong survival, the dps is a function of both a strong buff ultimate and super strong single target DOT. They lack stamina utility and passive support, but strong DOT's and healing buffs make them very strong in very specific builds.

Templar's have lesser utility than NB's, with ranged knock down and ranged debuff, but have better survivability with cheap purge and Minor Mending, they are more of a medium ground between the previous three.


Warden appears to be a sort of medium between a DK and a Templar. As stamina Templars have suffered in the past from being not very good at anything in particular, so also Wardens will likely suffer from being mediocre at everything.

Of the classes Warden will have the easiest access to Major Mending, and is the only one with a class based stamina heal. They should be quite potent at group support. If they were any better at DPS then everyone would be rolling Wardens because of the group utility they offer.

Most raids will want at least one, possibly two for Major Mending, Minor Toughness, and AOE major Resolve/Ward buffs. In PVP every ball group is going to want Wardens for the same reasons but even more so for PermaFrost, 70% snare, AOE stun, AOE damage, AOE damage reduction for allies.

That os what makes sprc the best stam class....weapon skills HAVE damage, what they need is utility, buffs and heals....so ZOS revert the change already so we can all go to bed

Vosital wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

While we're arguing about passives that boost raw damage, let's look at what each classes passive does:

Templar, Balanced Warrior: Increases Weapon Damage by 6%

Dragonknight, World In Ruin: Increases Fire and Poison AOE Damage by 6%.

Sorcerer, Energized: Increases Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
Expert Mage: Increases Weapons and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorc ability slotted.

Nightblade, Pressure Points: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical ratings by ### for each assassin ability slotted.
Hemorrhage: Increases Damage dealt by Critical Strikes by 10% with an assassin ability slotted.

Warden, Piercing Cold: Increases your Magic and Cold damage by 6%.

As you see- they're all pretty diverse. Warden's passive being somewhat close to a DK's passive while Templar is comparable to a Sorcerer. Nightblade's is just way the hell out there- so, maybe they'll come up with a class that's somewhat comparable one day?

And, as you know, each class gives some sort of secondary effect to allies. (ie: Minor sorcery, minor toughness, minor savagery, minor prophecy, minor brutality)

So, each class does get it's own boost in raw damage- but each has limited effects (and sometimes certain requirements for the damage). While Templars get a flat increase to weapon damage from Balanced Warrior- they don't get any increase in magic, elemental, or poison damage. DKs only get the increase in AOE Fire and Poison damage... but they don't get any other physical, magic, or elemental direct/AOE damage. Sorcs are probably the luckiest because they get a pure increase in weapon/physical and spell/shock damage... but I hate Sorcs (so I'm bias) Nightblades have pretty strict requirements for their increase- but, man, when they stick with the requirements- it hits hard! Finally, Wardens get an overall increase in Magic and Cold damage... but don't really benefit from physical or poison.

Templars also get Crit Damage bonus passive.

Really there is a host of passive benefits as well as skill buffs not really covered by simply looking at damage passives.


Sorcerers do have the best all around spread for stamina support despite having no direct damage stamina skill. With strong support passives and strong healing and resource management they extend the capabilities of the weapon lines.

NB's have the best stamina utility morphs, gap closer, execute, direct damage single target, AOE+buff, self buff+ranged damage, cheap single target ult. They lack healing support and most of the debuffs and buffs they can provide themselves are provided by group support in PVE situations, which make them a slightly weaker option for group play.

DK's have the best sustained PVE dps and strong survival, the dps is a function of both a strong buff ultimate and super strong single target DOT. They lack stamina utility and passive support, but strong DOT's and healing buffs make them very strong in very specific builds.

Templar's have lesser utility than NB's, with ranged knock down and ranged debuff, but have better survivability with cheap purge and Minor Mending, they are more of a medium ground between the previous three.


Warden appears to be a sort of medium between a DK and a Templar. As stamina Templars have suffered in the past from being not very good at anything in particular, so also Wardens will likely suffer from being mediocre at everything.

Of the classes Warden will have the easiest access to Major Mending, and is the only one with a class based stamina heal. They should be quite potent at group support. If they were any better at DPS then everyone would be rolling Wardens because of the group utility they offer.

Most raids will want at least one, possibly two for Major Mending, Minor Toughness, and AOE major Resolve/Ward buffs. In PVP every ball group is going to want Wardens for the same reasons but even more so for PermaFrost, 70% snare, AOE stun, AOE damage, AOE damage reduction for allies.

That os what makes sprc the best stam class....weapon skills HAVE damage, what they need is utility, buffs and heals....so ZOS revert the change already so we can all go to bed

ZoS never reverts changes man. And with the early release they kinda dug themselves into a hole with this one.

Woah woah woah there ZoS reverts changes

As long as it's reverting Sorc nerfs and turning them into buffs