oh no not another anti-animation cancel thread

Turelus · May 2017

As I have said in other threads, it's fine to be in the game and for people to use to push for high scores etc.

However ZOS shouldn't continue to build encounters around the DPS which can be achieved with it.
The games content should be cleanable without doing animation cancelling as it's not an option for everyone, older players or those with some levels of disabilities should have a fair chance to clear the games content without needing to animation cancel.

Base game level should be achievable for everyone (elites triggered) but leaderboard positions more a showing for the people who have the ability to animation cancel for better DPS.

flguy147ub17_ESO · May 2017

Good performance and no lag would do so much good to make it more pleasurable. But playing on a console it just sucks when its lagging which is 90% of the time in Cyrodiil.

Bramir · May 2017

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS really needs to discuss animation cancelling in the tutorial.

Maybe then we'll get less whining from players lacking the talent to perform such a simple mechanic.

Afraid someone is going to take away your crutch?

I bet you're the kind of person everyone dreaded letting in the Super Smash Brothers game, like you're the 5th person and your friends would all get up to go to the bathroom or get a drink when you picked up the controller.

Never even heard of that game...

You didn't answer my question...will you fall over if someone takes your crutch?

I'll add another too...do you actually think you are a superior player because you can mash buttons faster?

adeptusminor · May 2017

Animation cancelling is cool and good

SanTii.92 · May 2017

animation cancel is not going anywhere, when are you going to realize?

Strider_Roshin · May 2017

Bramir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS really needs to discuss animation cancelling in the tutorial.

Maybe then we'll get less whining from players lacking the talent to perform such a simple mechanic.

Afraid someone is going to take away your
game mechanic ?

There, I fixed it for you.

And no I'm not. Just like dodge rolling, blocking, CC breaking, etc. You can either learn it or not, and blame the devs, players, etc. When in all actuality it's due to your own inadequacy.

Morbash · May 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

I feel like we need a separate forum section for this already. "Discuss your gripes against ani canceling here!"

Leave it alone, there's no need to fix that which is not broken.

QFT

Bramir · May 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS really needs to discuss animation cancelling in the tutorial.

Maybe then we'll get less whining from players lacking the talent to perform such a simple mechanic.

Afraid someone is going to take away your
game mechanic ?

There, I fixed it for you.

And no I'm not. Just like dodge rolling, blocking, CC breaking, etc. You can either learn it or not, and blame the devs, players, etc. When in all actuality it's due to your own inadequacy.

Animations should be tied to the conclusion of the skill. I want to see characters move like they are actually doing what they are doing.

And, if something has a cast time, it should have a cast time...animation cancelling basically double-dips your ping advantage, if you have one.

MehrunesFlagon · May 2017

The horse is already dead.

a1i3nz · May 2017

Or just learn how to

Because playing fast paced bar swapping ability canceling definitely takes less skill then not playing fast and having combos LOL GIT GUD

SRASinister · May 2017

Meh animation cancelling was already nerfed over a year ago with thieves guild. Now it's really not helping out anything anymore

Rohamad_Ali · May 2017

Let it go man .

Shad0wfire99 · May 2017

raviour wrote: »

Animation cancelling's original intent only really affects total peasants that spam snipe, dark flare or hard cast frags. This mechanic allows try hards to pull better dps by blocking or bar swapping or weave certain weight attacks, it totally ruins the immersion for real RPG gamers at end game content. Please get rid of it, it's boring.

And what, exactly, is end game content for "real RPG gamers?"

Bluepitbull13 · May 2017

raviour wrote: »

Animation cancelling's original intent only really affects total peasants that spam snipe, dark flare or hard cast frags. This mechanic allows try hards to pull better dps by blocking or bar swapping or weave certain weight attacks, it totally ruins the immersion for real RPG gamers at end game content. Please get rid of it, it's boring.

here you go, as you can see it's full swings and no animation cancelling.

MehrunesFlagon · May 2017

Every time I see one of these threads I have to think l2p.

lagrue · May 2017

ZOS needs to create some sort of screening on threads that automatically rejects posts containing the instance "animation cancel" and then all this stupidity would stop for good.

I don't even use it, but it's not an exploit - in some games yes, where you can reload-cancel, I might consider than an unfair advantage - but somebody pressing buttons fast enough to let off multiple skills isn't poor design, in fact it's good design and makes combat more seamless.

aLi3nZ · May 2017

Animation cancelling is great. If it's removed I will quit and I won't be the only one. Let's say I accidentally start hard casting a crystal frag because the proc time ran out. Meanwhile an enemy player is winding up a dizzying swing and an another enemy already had Jesus beam on me. So what you saying to remove this animation canceling would mean, I could not block, Then use another skill and I can not dodge roll. I just have to stand their wirling my hands like an idiot and take the hit, cc and die. Because pve rpg players can not handle even seeing any canelling in "their" game

Linaleah · May 2017

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Animation cancelling is great. If it's removed I will quit and I won't be the only one. Let's say I accidentally start hard casting a crystal frag because the proc time ran out. Meanwhile an enemy player is winding up a dizzying swing and an another enemy already had Jesus beam on me. So what you saying to remove this animation canceling would mean, I could not block, Then use another skill and I can not dodge roll. I just have to stand their wirling my hands like an idiot and take the hit, cc and die. Because pve rpg players can not handle even seeing any canelling in "their" game

no. you could still all of those. what WOULD happen is that animation duration would match the cast time duration.

or.. are you confusing animation canceling with cast canceling? because fixing animation canceling is literally making your ability have the same cast time in terms of animation, that it has showing on a toolbar, while cast canceling is canceling your ability before the cast itself is finished to adopt to changing environment.

unless I'm misunderstanding something and animation canceling actualy shortens the cast of the ability itself, while still allowing ability to fire? in which case its a bug and HAS to be fixed

max_only · May 2017

The spasmodic twitching the characters do when we anim cancel bugs me but that can be solved by fixing the animation transitions.

I love block casting and cancelling my attack to block an incoming hit. Especially on my tank, it makes me feel like a real "protector". In fact, I wish there was more visual effects for blocking (like there is if you block in the final fight of the main quest).

The one thing I miss from Tera was the cone of protection directly behind the tank, like I had not only a massive shield but a dish shaped force field. (That and the lance charge was like choochoo mf get out the way lol)

I like to see my casting animations, so I go out and solo and take my time. However when other people's lives depend on me, I need to block-cast as a healer and cancel skills with blocking. It makes "immersive" sense to me. *shrug*

I agree though, Zos should not be designing encounters around animation cancelling. They should design encounters to be completed (slowly) without it, but in order to get a high score or a quick finish THEN, anim cancelling would be needed.

theamazingx · May 2017

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

Linaleah · May 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Anti animation cancelling threads might be taken more seriously if their proponents demonstrated any understanding of how it works and it's actual impact on combat.

see that's the thing. I'm starting to realize that pro animation canceling crowd doesn't actualy understand animation canceling themselves and constantly confuse it with CAST canceling. those are 2 different things.

here's what animation canceling actualy is. the animation for ability is longer than actual cast time of ability as shown on a tooltip. however, you cannot fire next ability UNLESS you cancel the animation first. this allows ability to fire within the cast time that's actualy on a tooltip and allow next ability (or light attack) to be cast sooner. naturally - this contributes to higher dps. however, this is also incredibly tricky to execute if your ping/latency is not close to perfect, not to mention the whole case of cast times being virtualy longer than as shown on tooltip is just wrong. what it does NOT do is get rid of global cooldown or make the ability go off faster then what is shown on a tooltip.

cast canceling on the other hand is different from animation canceling in that, you actualy cancel ability before its finished firing. say you are trying to case a... heal, but need to quickly roll out of the bad that just dropped on the ground and cannot afford to finish your cast, because that one second will kill you. in this scenario, your ability didn't fire, you were able to cancel it and change tactics. this is NOT animation canceling.

and herein lays a problem. being able to change tactics on a fly, cancel abilities and use something else? yes. please. awesome. this is gameplay, this is fun. animation canceling is fighting against the game just so that your characters actualy cast as tooltips say they should be casting.

and all it would take to fix? is speeding up animations so that the duration of their character waving their arms is exactly the same as that of a cast time on a tooltip. that's it. speed. up. the animation. and/or shorten it.

max_only · May 2017

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4071008/#Comment_4071008

Bobby_V_Rockit · May 2017

Having some kind of in game tutorial, say, tied to Undaunted Guild or some such, so players can at least get a heads up

KingYogi415 · May 2017

What's boring all other games that don't have this feature.

Please go play any of them if pressing 1 button to win is good enough for you.

Cheers!

Gallifreyy · May 2017

All i can hear is L2P

Zurxii · May 2017

raviour wrote: »

Animation cancelling's original intent only really affects total peasants that spam snipe, dark flare or hard cast frags. This mechanic allows try hards to pull better dps by blocking or bar swapping or weave certain weight attacks, it totally ruins the immersion for real RPG gamers at end game content. Please get rid of it, it's boring.

Considering the game has been out for two years, and each patch lowers the skill height in pvp exponentially, I'd say ani-cancelling are one of the last skill based factors that actually exist. Managing resources is easy, even after Morrowind patch, however some counterplay and limitations have been added. Animation cancelling is the easiest thing, if you can't learn it that's on you. It doesn't require "tryharding", it simply requires a little bit of actual attention. So yes, AC'ing is imo one of the last skill based factors. And also no, this isn't simply an RPG. If you want to Roleplay go back to Skyrim. Or stay out of PVP. As for block casting, etc.. If you're going to block cast, (yes I know this sounds contradicting to my previous statement) you'll need to watch your resources more. Assuming you're not even talking about pvp, then it shouldn't be an issue, except for DPS numbers.

idk · May 2017

Bramir wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS really needs to discuss animation cancelling in the tutorial.

Maybe then we'll get less whining from players lacking the talent to perform such a simple mechanic.

Afraid someone is going to take away your crutch?

@Bramir

Probably not. Ani-cancel is pretty much an accepted part of the game. The most common part of it is fairly easy to master for anyone that chooses.

Turelus wrote: »

As I have said in other threads, it's fine to be in the game and for people to use to push for high scores etc.

However ZOS shouldn't continue to build encounters around the DPS which can be achieved with it.
The games content should be cleanable without doing animation cancelling as it's not an option for everyone, older players or those with some levels of disabilities should have a fair chance to clear the games content without needing to animation cancel.

Base game level should be achievable for everyone (elites triggered) but leaderboard positions more a showing for the people who have the ability to animation cancel for better DPS.

@Turelus

The newest trial is not about high dps. It is more about mechanics. It takes the mechanic requirements a step further than vMoL, maybe two steps further and there is not a dps race in any of the fights that I am aware of.

Many of the mechanics in HoF require the group to work together which is a great step for the game.

bebynnag · May 2017

the only issue i have with animation canceling is the bosses in vMA doing it!

Or maybee its lag!

or my internet!

Lord_Eomer · May 2017

Animation canncelling should go instead of having sustain nerf!

kaorunandrak · May 2017

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Animation cancelling is great. If it's removed I will quit and I won't be the only one. Let's say I accidentally start hard casting a crystal frag because the proc time ran out. Meanwhile an enemy player is winding up a dizzying swing and an another enemy already had Jesus beam on me. So what you saying to remove this animation canceling would mean, I could not block, Then use another skill and I can not dodge roll. I just have to stand their wirling my hands like an idiot and take the hit, cc and die. Because pve rpg players can not handle even seeing any canelling in "their" game

Actually they could just adjust the powers to where the damage/healing wont fire off until the end of the animation. Thus allowing you to still cancel the animation to block/dodge roll/bash/ or even interrupt your self to keep from in your example hard casting frags. The only thing that would be affected here would be the padded DPS numbers because light/heavy weaving would be impossible with this type of change and animation canceling instant cast DPS and defense/healing abilities with a bash would be ineffective.

I mean a few combos I teach my guildies for example would be (-> mean are being canceled into next in line btw)

Heavy attack-> skill-> bash light attack->skill-> bash

or for pvp two handers

Heavy attack-> wrecking blow/dizzy-> light attack-> reverse slice-> dodge roll/bash

The change I describe would make both of the examples useless cause none of the damage would be applied out side of one or two steps.

I mean my problems with animation canceling personally revolves around the fact there are no in-game tutorials or official guides for new players. I have had to teach/explain animation canceling to a majority of my guild members and many of them think I am teaching them an exploit. And technically it is, but the devs are ok with it.

My second issue is that for many people they do feel like content is scaled around it, especially vet content. I can see where they are coming from and why they are put off by it.

Further in pvp they feel like you have to be able to do it, and you know what? They are right you do, if you are not animation canceling/weaving in pvp you are dead. Period dot. You aren't healing firing off support abilities fast enough your aren't putting out enough burst ETC ETC.

There are ways of stream lining the game to be more fast paced while keeping the fluidity of combat and my example is one of them it would make you think hard in combat if you really need to block that dizzying swing or let the frags fly, defense versus offense and to be honest i like the idea, I don't think combat in eso is punishing or tactical out side of resource management.They could also as others have said match the animations to match the GCD.

I mean theres a lot they could do but I doubt they ever will. Personally I like my suggestion because if you take the exact example of the situation you described:
hard casting frags as another player is mid animation on a dizzying swing on you

now you block canceling frags, no damage fires cause you canceled the animation, but the other player was going full tilt counting on that knock up and now your free to retaliate forcing him to go on the defense.

To me thats just more skill full game play and more depth in combat system that needs it.