End Game Content NEEDS a Change in it's Dificulty

Khairiah · May 2017

As I see it the real issue is that the difference from normal to vet is too big for alot of players. Personally I have done it all and yes its been costing thousands of soul gems and prolly millions of gold on repair bills.
Theres just not enough preparation for people in going from Normal Mode to Veteran, whether its vma or trials. Mechanics are the same, some cases slightly different in vet. End Game is not impossible, just takes time and effort.
But there should be something inbetween normal and vet.

BuddyAces · May 2017

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

VMA is easy and all mechanic based. Round 9 is one of the funnest things to do in this game because it actually takes skill.

I went from 100 deaths in my first VMA completion about 2-3 weeks ago to my first flawless last week. There is a learning curve yes but it's certainly not impossible.

Nobody goes in and does a flawless their first time, or their fifth but keep at it and it happens. Do not nerf.

Roynd 9 is the easiest for me. It's 5, 6, and 7 that can go burn in a fire. You miss dodging one enemy stun/knockdown on round 5 you screwed. Round 6 everything feels so damn tanky and seems like it takes forever. And round 7.... yeah.

AhPook_Is_Here · May 2017

And here I was thinking it's all too easy.

Moglijuana · May 2017

The PvE in this game has been the easiest PvE in an any MMO I've ever played...

Asardes · May 2017

People with high forum rating complaining that content which has been completed easily by others over the course of one and a half years and are asking for nerfs have clearly spent more time talking than doing. Maybe it's time to switch those two activities around.

Galwylin · May 2017

I won't say you should get better or learn to play but I do think there are some things that just aren't for you. Me, I don't like frustration. Especially in my games. You frustrate me, I'm done. Like Maelstrom. Once was enough for me and I'm done. This will have to be the absolute last thing left to do in the game for me to go back. I just don't like that sort of thing. I don't like insta death if you stand too close to your team mate. I don't like games that don't present a clear path to the objective from the start. If I have to study on what killed me then I'm done with it. I don't study video games. I'm not interested in a degree in them. That doesn't mean I avoid hard things. I just want a solution to present itself earlier in which I don't have to go outside the game to learn. If the game can't teach me how to proceed then its a bad game for me. Not that I'm the sharpest tool in the shed but I'm not the dullest either.

Zaindari · May 2017

I don't get it, you said you did it on normal and that was great. You said your not one for getting the absolute best gear you just wanna play and have fun right..? So why the hell do you need to do it on vet now? The whole dang point of vet is to be hard if you don't find that enjoyable then stick to normal. Wow its like the solution is already built into the game.

Oompuh · May 2017

I agree, it should be harder... huh I think I read that wrong

greylox · May 2017

Forget about harder vet stuff then, you don't have to - or need to - complete everything and get every achievement. Some people are just silly good at the game and to keep that player base ZOS need mega hard stuff. Make it harder I say, whatever they want, as long as the rest of us still have a normal mode and can do all quests etc....just ignore it.

ArchMikem · May 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.

Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.

My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.

CultOfMMO · May 2017

it might confuse you why some ppl would find enjoyment in this, but it absolutely boggles my mind just how anyone can be stuck in vMA

I finished vMA within 24 hrs of first starting it, on a cp274 khajit stamblade. Quite literally could not choose a harder setup to do your first ever clear. You're a cp 600 *** magsorc, like what!?!?

content should be nerfed because 99% of the community are idiots is NOT a valid argument.

FlyLionel · May 2017

CultOfMMO wrote: »

it might confuse you why some ppl would find enjoyment in this, but it absolutely boggles my mind just how anyone can be stuck in vMA

I finished vMA within 24 hrs of first starting it, on a cp274 khajit stamblade. Quite literally could not choose a harder setup to do your first ever clear. You're a cp 600 *** magsorc, like what!?!?

content should be nerfed because 99% of the community are idiots is NOT a valid argument.

They aren't idiots, just ignorant to mechanics/how pve works.

Take me for example, I was a pvp player and when vma came out everyone said 2h get it nowwwww..I went in with a pvp stam nb rally fear surprise attack combo lol.....sad part is I actually beat it within 24 hours...this dude has no excuse with a magsorc.

Docmandu · May 2017

Overall the PvE in this game seems to be super easy.. aside from a few things that require you to pay attention. Isn't it a good thing there is at least some things that need some effort to be completed / learned?!

I'm mostly a PvP'er.. so not all that interested in PvE... but kind of find it odd what the OP's stance is. (but if I have to join in on the rant, I would add that putting weapons that are clearly better for both pve AND pvp behind maelstrom is something I don't really like... and yes.. I've completed vma a couple of times and got rather lucky on the drops.. but I know PvP'ers that had to pve for months before getting anything decent)

To add to the easy pve.. like so many, I've also made a warden which I'm levelling.. I swear I could put a coin on my keyboard and AFK to level 50 without dying once, while running around without gear.

ArchMikem · May 2017

FlyLionel wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

it might confuse you why some ppl would find enjoyment in this, but it absolutely boggles my mind just how anyone can be stuck in vMA

I finished vMA within 24 hrs of first starting it, on a cp274 khajit stamblade. Quite literally could not choose a harder setup to do your first ever clear. You're a cp 600 *** magsorc, like what!?!?

content should be nerfed because 99% of the community are idiots is NOT a valid argument.

They aren't idiots, just ignorant to mechanics/how pve works.

How the Hell do you think I even got to the final Boss in the first place? If I were what you claimed I would've rage quit on the first stage. I paid attention to the Mechanics as I went and learned through Trial and Error.

If you people want to jump to conclusions I'd LOVE to watch you take the Helm of my Character and get a Flawless. Then you have my permission to talk crap.

LadyNalcarya · May 2017

lagrue wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

competitive endgame PvE

And this is why I avoid most endgame content. PVE isn't supposed to be a competition. It's supposed to be players bashing computers. Leaderboards and all that are what ruins it! Half of us don't care about that...

So those who do care dont matter somehow?
All "difficult" content has normal modes for those who just want to see the story.
And how exactly your experience is "ruined" by leaderboards?

LadyNalcarya · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

If you people want to jump to conclusions I'd LOVE to watch you take the Helm of my Character and get a Flawless. Then you have my permission to talk crap.

People already cleared vMA with broom and bucket:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVFYPJW-aa8
Or even naked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDv_0BKu9kg

So I'm 100% sure your char can kill the last boss.

Doctordarkspawn · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm not wanting a straight Nerf, I know full well everyone would just mock me and tell me to L2P and Git Gud. But the things that make the content difficult blatantly needs a change, ESPECIALLY now that ZOS has for some reason decided they needed to make it even harder to play this game by handicapping our Survivability.

Personally, (and I'm certain I'm not alone in this) I've completely had it with End Game Content. The DLC Dungeons, Trials, God Damned mother....Maelstrom. Even though I've been complaining about Maelstrom since the dawn of time, I'm not a stranger to it. I've been in there, I've done a few runs on Normal, I've experienced the Mechanics, and now I tried Vet. I took my BEST PvE MagSorc character in there and was at first doing pretty well. Until Stages Five and Seven. I burned through all 15 of my Vitality lives in those but through multiple tries I persevered through and got to the Theater. A few more deaths learning the Mechanics and finally Solkyn. That Horker wiped me DOZENS of times, no matter what I tried, what skills I used, going back to the guy so I can repair. I'm not saying I want a Nerf, but there's too many Mechanics! There's too many damage sources all around, all with the capability to one shot. My resources are drained by the time I even get up top for the first crystal, I can't run from the mobs waiting for my regen since the Mobs are like they're in Nascar, and I even got SO CLOSE to actually finishing him only once. 8,000 health. That's all he had left as I was desperately trying to shield against four different sources of high damage attacks but wiped before I could cast that last needed Fury. After that I never even got him under 60% again through another dozen wipes.

I'm just done, this is complete bull, I don't understand why you people actually find joy in this. Games are supposed to have replayability but this kind of content makes me NEVER want to try it again. So I'm just calling it finished now. A 30 or so death run with a score of 350,000. I was so damn close to my first Maelstrom weapon.

You're continuing to make the new Content harder while at the same time making it more difficult for our Characters to survive. I didn't buy ESO so I could be a Min/Maxer wearing Gold Trial Gear.

I was going to take a pic of one of my death screens and superimpose a giant %$#& YOU on it, but I figured that might be a bit much.

It's not often we agree, but this is a thing that needs to happen.

What keeps happening is we keep geting nerfed but the content difficulty stays the same. If you want the current balance, fine, makes me no nevermind, but you have -got- to edit the content to suit. If you want this to work, you need to edit the content. Goes for all of it, too. Shadows of the hist dungeons, trials, vet dungeons, the content needs to be brought down to the level at which you want the highest player to be at. You need. To take. A better approach with your game, ZOS.

It used to be, back in the olden days when Softcaps were a thing, it seemed like the devs had a general idea of how they wanted each roll to function. How DPS were to function and what their DPS limit was. How tanks were to function and how to give them some leeway to support the team. Healers, the same. So what you need to do, ZOS, is pick a maximum friggin DPS limit and build the content, and the game, to meet that. Not the other way around. You need to do the same with the support classes too, right now you nerfed tanks for no reason other than PVP.

Of course, that last sentance is exactly why this will never happen, PVP. Yeah, the new battlegrounds PVP that's pissing people off because the sustain nerf just made PVP a battle of poisons now. You guys just cant do anything right, can you?

Or maybe, just maybe, this is a classic case of you, not thinking through the consequences of your actions and hardcore player whining, and thus not realizing it'd screw both.

idk · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.

Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.

My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.

Managing the mechanics well = win.

Doctordarkspawn · May 2017

Moglijuana wrote: »

The PvE in this game has been the easiest PvE in an any MMO I've ever played...

Your experience does not translate to what the design should be. In fact, people like you whining for a harder experience is why the game is as screwed as it is.

Dont like the difficulty? Go play something more difficult, trying to turn this game into a meat grinder isn't doing anyone any favors. S'not gonna please you, nor us.

helediron · May 2017

Two difficulty levels just isn't enough. My previous MMO DDO has four: casual, normal, hard, elite. Normal is ŕoughly same on both. DDO elite is about same as veteran on latest dungeons/trials. In DDO the hard was most popular. Taking in that experience, regardless is the content too easy or too difficult, i think half of ESO population can't play at the level they would prefer.

Second issue of end content is ESO LFG. It's a crap tool that throws random people together. Harder content needs same kind of grouping tool as the LFM in DDO, where group leader can advertise what kind of runs they are doing and selects members. Normals can be organized through LFG or whatever. Vet hm runs are always organized guild groups. What ESO lacks is group organizing tools in between random and fixed groups.

Third issue in end content is RNG. Right now lack of token system and decline of crafting has led me to pretty much ignore all end content. That after doing everything in VR10, 12, 14 and 16 (cp160). ZOS is putting everything in to the old "hope it drops this time" trick, which is so outdated. Wrobel's ideas that RNG makes some wow! effects is rather sad to hear. That is something that a three year old kid is excited about.

I have never seen stats how people run e.g. trials, but i just guess 10% vet and 20% normal. ZOS should think how to offer them to 50% of capable players and to 20% fluffies (you know, the bow&pewpews). ZOS hint: there are surprisingly many whales in fluffies. Again comparing to DDO, trials and dungeons are astonishingly unpopular in ESO. That is because they are not at the level people like and it's hard to find people at same level. This is the reason why noobs get kicked out from LFG groups. This is also reason why LFG will never work beyond normal difficulty.

Another thing to learn from DDO is that people change difficulty levels. First, players learn. With four difficulty levels there is a path of progression where next level isn't a shock. Moving from normal to hard to elite was much more natural in DDO than from normal to vet in ESO. Secondly with four levels the dungeons and trials don't need to be so carefully tuned. In DDO some raids were most popular as elite and some as hard. Gear drops were not so much gated behind difficulty levels.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.

Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.

My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.

False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.

Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).

If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.

Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.

My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.

Slot twilight and run necro

You will love your life

Avran_Sylt · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.

Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.

My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.

I'm talking about HP sustain. not stam/mag. DPS means jack if you're dead.

Doctordarkspawn · May 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.

Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.

My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.

False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.

Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).

If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.

Best laugh I've had all day.

People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".

Ghost-Shot · May 2017

If normal is more your speed that's fine man, the content is completeable though and the harder difficulties don't need to be nerfed just because you can't do it. Maybe try getting a few more CP then give it a shot again.

Betsararie · May 2017

lol. ESO. actually needs more challenge (and more content).

The problem with people is they just want everything handed to them and at the slightest semblance of difficulty they just shut down and start complaining.

In video games easy equates to a bad game.

FlyLionel · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

it might confuse you why some ppl would find enjoyment in this, but it absolutely boggles my mind just how anyone can be stuck in vMA

I finished vMA within 24 hrs of first starting it, on a cp274 khajit stamblade. Quite literally could not choose a harder setup to do your first ever clear. You're a cp 600 *** magsorc, like what!?!?

content should be nerfed because 99% of the community are idiots is NOT a valid argument.

They aren't idiots, just ignorant to mechanics/how pve works.

How the Hell do you think I even got to the final Boss in the first place? If I were what you claimed I would've rage quit on the first stage. I paid attention to the Mechanics as I went and learned through Trial and Error.

If you people want to jump to conclusions I'd LOVE to watch you take the Helm of my Character and get a Flawless. Then you have my permission to talk crap.

I'm actually not talking about you when I mean generally most players in eso are ignorant to how pve works, it was a broad but accurate generalization. And I am flawless on stam sorcerer. If I can do it once I can do it again, especially on a magsorc. Good luck.

Magdalina · May 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lemme guess, in vMA you're still of the idea that DPS=Win.

Sustain = Win. Having Sustain means you can continue to DPS without fear of that bar being empty and suddenly your buttons don't work, but at the same time if I went on and slapped some regen glyphs on my jewelry, my Spell Power would drop to like, 1,600. And I can't change my Mundus stone from the Thief. My only source of "reliable" healing is Power Surge. That needs Crits to Heal and I'm already barely hanging on to 60% chance.

My work around was putting CP into Tenacity so my Heavy Attack weaving would help with regen, but I can't spend time doing Heavy Attacks when I'm constantly throwing Hardened Ward up so I'm not one shot by half a dozen mechanics at once.

False, that is a self defeating philosophy. The more sustain you have, the more you will need. VMA has never favored sustain builds because they lack DPS and the fights take 3 times as long. With the exception of magic DK within the first 3 months of launch, I have never used a single recovery glyph or drink (regen) buff in this place.

Surge and a shield are PLENTY to clear the arena. There is almost never a scenario where you are facing a "half a dozen mechanics" at a time and you can count the number of one shot mechanics in the arena on one hand. Most stages have 1 obvious and unique mechanic, and most bosses have 2-3 moves at best. The last boss is certainly the toughest fight, but until he has killed you at least a 100 times, you wont have a grasp on his mechanics and timing. If you are getting overwhelmed, there is a good chance that your kill priority is wrong, you DPS is low, or you are standing in stupid (red).

If you have specific questions or problems with the fights, this forum will bend over backwards to give you help. If you are asking for a nerf to the one challenging piece of solo content in the game (that has been out for 18 months and nerfed quarterly as we get more CP), you are going to be met with resistance.

Best laugh I've had all day.

People dont want to hear what you have to say unless your praising the game unconditionally, dont give me this crap. You wanna criticize the content? They're of a mind to beat you. Wanna ask for help? "Git gud scrub, L2P".

Show me one thread on these forums where a person legitimately asked for help, not cried for nerfs, and got trolled to death rather than being helped.

Heck even in this thread OP got some very good advices already despite his tone and got offered more had he felt like asking specific questions regarding what's giving him issues beyond generic "it's too hard for me so it needs nerfed".

(Plot twist, I hate vMA. I've completed it on my magsorc and I must've died several thousand times. Doesn't mean it needs a nerf.)

wahoozie · May 2017

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

I disagree. IMO, there aren't enough mechanics in the game. Outside of vMoL, and apparently now vHoF, most end-game content is a pure dps race. More mechanics, less mountains of health, please.

This. IMO the hardest part of vMA is the fact that most NPC's will ignore cc immunity, meaning you miss one and you are now chain cc'd until death. That and the RNG stages are just poor design. Ultimately though I find little challenge in end-game content.

edit- oops read MoL as MA first time ha. Still applies though, we need more fights with mechanics rather than races. Remember the Bloodspawn fight? That is an actual -group- dps race.. now it's used to measure one persons single target dps.

BraidasNM · May 2017

i thought this was going to say the difficulty is too low (which i agree with)...but this post...lol