I miss hybrid builds :/

Magdalina · May 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Pelinal's Aptitude (9 Traits)
(2 items) Adds 1064 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.

Hybrid spec set??

had the same question myself - someone explained to me that actual damage is based off resource pool and not weapon or spell damage number...

still - should help to make you magicka attacks hit harder then they would otherwise (assuming your putting all, or most, attributes in one resource pool)...

Damage is based off both resource and weapon/spelldamage. I think the rate is something like 100 spelldamage=1k magicka roughly, not sure on stamina.

Yes, Pelinal's is the one set that can somewhat make hybrids viable. With a lot of very expensive adjustments, viable for vet dungeons, possibly trials even.

Still gonna underperform because skyhigh spelldamage won't be enough to compensate for low magicka AND stamina. I think someone actually posted a hybrid build with fairly decent stats using this set on Tamrielfoundry recently though.

TheStealthDude · May 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Pelinal's Aptitude (9 Traits)
(2 items) Adds 1064 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.

Hybrid spec set??

had the same question myself - someone explained to me that actual damage is based off resource pool and not weapon or spell damage number...

still - should help to make you magicka attacks hit harder then they would otherwise (assuming your putting all, or most, attributes in one resource pool)...

Actual damage is based off a combination of both your weapon/spell damage AND your max stamina/magicka. For most abilities, I believe that 1 weapon/spell damage will give you the equivalent damage boost of 10.46 max stamina/magicka. Its also important to note that light/heavy attack damage is weight much more heavily on weapon/spell damage, compared to damage from skills.

The goal with using the Pelinal's set should be to maximize the amount of weapon or spell damage (pick 1) you can get from gear and enchants. Pelinal's is the current best set for Hybrid builds, in my opinion.

Invincible · May 2017

Depending on how far back you remember hybrids and gameplay like Morrowind and skyrim were what the game advertised when it was going to launch. "Wanna be a bow guy?! Pick up a bow and bam you're a bow guy!!" Ultimately the devs could not deliver which is why it died a few months after launch. The sad part is that this game beats wow on graphics and story telling 10:1 but the endgame doesn't exist.

Magdalina · May 2017

TheStealthDude wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

Pelinal's Aptitude (9 Traits)
(2 items) Adds 1064 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.

Hybrid spec set??

had the same question myself - someone explained to me that actual damage is based off resource pool and not weapon or spell damage number...

still - should help to make you magicka attacks hit harder then they would otherwise (assuming your putting all, or most, attributes in one resource pool)...

Actual damage is based off a combination of both your weapon/spell damage AND your max stamina/magicka. For most abilities, I believe that 1 weapon/spell damage will give you the equivalent damage boost of 10.46 max stamina/magicka. Its also important to note that light/heavy attack damage is weight much more heavily on weapon/spell damage, compared to damage from skills.

The goal with using the Pelinal's set should be to maximize the amount of weapon or spell damage (pick 1) you can get from gear and enchants. Pelinal's is the current best set for Hybrid builds, in my opinion.

Weapon. You pick weapon damage. The thing making Pelinal's even remotely viable is that you can stack weapon damage a LOT higher than spelldamage so Pelinal's bring your spelldamage up ther with it to otherwise unreachable heights of like 4k if done properly. There actually, found that post. I wonder how/if at all viable it'd be with Morrowind changes.

Baconfat79 · May 2017

The_Duke wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I have changed my stamplar and stamblade to a hybrid a few weeks before the new changes in Morrowind take place and that has been one of the best decisions I've ever made so far in this game.

Contrary to popular belief, hybrids can perform very well (if not on par with one-resource-builds) in PvP and PvE. Regens would be low if you're running a hybrid but that's okay because you draw from both resources for healing, attacks and defence.
In effect, my hybrid characters are the least affected by nerfs from the latest patch compared to my other stam & magicka characters.

My advice? Make a hybrid and see for yourself how you'd like it.

Almost all abilities scale off of your max magicka or max stamina, depending on which resource the ability uses. You can't have both pools be large at the same time. You can split between max stam and max magicka and get maybe 20k on each, in which case all of your abilities will hit like a wet noodle. You could run one large pool and one small pool, but the abilities that scale off the small pool will be so weak that they aren't worth using. With the current system, there just really is no way to make a magicka/stamina hybrid perform nearly as well as if you went fully into one or the other.

Perhaps not quite as well but if built properly they can be effective. My dunmer hybrid DK is a self heal/dot machine. Vigor, rally, whip, embers, blood craze, blood thirst coagulated blood etc. I heavy its hard to kill since you can heal from both resources. Coagulated then Embers followed by rally is 3 huge burst heals.

My stamsorc hybrid has incredible burst. Poison inject heavy bow into a curse proc a frag then hit crit rush to close the gap. Frag and crit hit at the same time then the curse goes off. Dizzy swing into mages wrath. GG.

Again...half of those abilities scale off stam and the other half scale off magicka. If you split your resources between the two, neither pool will be high, and all of your abilities will hit for far less than they would if you went fully into one or the other.

The_Duke · May 2017

Baconfat79 wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I have changed my stamplar and stamblade to a hybrid a few weeks before the new changes in Morrowind take place and that has been one of the best decisions I've ever made so far in this game.

Contrary to popular belief, hybrids can perform very well (if not on par with one-resource-builds) in PvP and PvE. Regens would be low if you're running a hybrid but that's okay because you draw from both resources for healing, attacks and defence.
In effect, my hybrid characters are the least affected by nerfs from the latest patch compared to my other stam & magicka characters.

My advice? Make a hybrid and see for yourself how you'd like it.

Almost all abilities scale off of your max magicka or max stamina, depending on which resource the ability uses. You can't have both pools be large at the same time. You can split between max stam and max magicka and get maybe 20k on each, in which case all of your abilities will hit like a wet noodle. You could run one large pool and one small pool, but the abilities that scale off the small pool will be so weak that they aren't worth using. With the current system, there just really is no way to make a magicka/stamina hybrid perform nearly as well as if you went fully into one or the other.

Perhaps not quite as well but if built properly they can be effective. My dunmer hybrid DK is a self heal/dot machine. Vigor, rally, whip, embers, blood craze, blood thirst coagulated blood etc. I heavy its hard to kill since you can heal from both resources. Coagulated then Embers followed by rally is 3 huge burst heals.

My stamsorc hybrid has incredible burst. Poison inject heavy bow into a curse proc a frag then hit crit rush to close the gap. Frag and crit hit at the same time then the curse goes off. Dizzy swing into mages wrath. GG.

Again...half of those abilities scale off stam and the other half scale off magicka. If you split your resources between the two, neither pool will be high, and all of your abilities will hit for far less than they would if you went fully into one or the other.

Agreed. I understand the resource ratio scaling. With my hybrid sorc I get 12k and 12k wrecking blows. I can time those to hit at once. Thats 24k tool tips without crit. Id say thats strong.

Tannus15 · May 2017

I've respecced my DK as a hybrid.

Pelinal's, dreugh king slayer plus molag kenna and velidreth

DW swords on the front bar, inferno staff on the back.

Front bar is just over 4k weapon/spell damage. Major and minor brutality, flawless dawn breaker, rearming trap. Soon as you hit that ult both magi and stam bars refill.

It's a lot of fun, but even with 4k damage it's a struggle with only 22k stam/magi. Having to use DKS jewellry really hurts too because of the healthy, but nothing else buffs weapon damage as much as DKS.

I'm farming some undaunted infiltrator jewellery to try swapping out DKS. Robust jewellery with max magi set bonus. See how it plays out.

disintegr8 · May 2017

Not sure what the definition of a hybrid build is - is it about where you spend you skill points or does it include what gear you wear and what skills you use?

I thought I must be running nearly all hybrid builds if my DPS can't do top level damage but can survive and complete a dungeon without a healer or tank. Therefore my DPS may not be doing enough damage for what a group needs in a vet trial. Or my healer can solo a world boss or a dolmen, so they may not be welcome in a vet trial because having some skills assigned for damage means I may not be providing enough heals.

One of my DPS got called a useless hybrid in a vet dungeon once, by a CP cap tank with 50k health, because I died a few times on the final boss and presumably the boss did not go down quickly enough. Mind you, none of my tanks have 50k health and as someone who always runs with PUGs, I feel the need to cover my bases because you never know how good or reliable everyone else is going to be.

Tannus15 · May 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

Not sure what the definition of a hybrid build is - is it about where you spend you skill points or does it include what gear you wear and what skills you use?

I thought I must be running nearly all hybrid builds if my DPS can't do top level damage but can survive and complete a dungeon without a healer or tank. Therefore my DPS may not be doing enough damage for what a group needs in a vet trial. Or my healer can solo a world boss or a dolmen, so they may not be welcome in a vet trial because having some skills assigned for damage means I may not be providing enough heals.

One of my DPS got called a useless hybrid in a vet dungeon once, by a CP cap tank with 50k health, because I died a few times on the final boss and presumably the boss did not go down quickly enough. Mind you, none of my tanks have 50k health and as someone who always runs with PUGs, I feel the need to cover my bases because you never know how good or reliable everyone else is going to be.

Hybrid refers to using both magi and stam offensively and balancing out both stam and magi in order to do so.

Your builds look like middle of the road DPS builds. I tend to do the same thing with mine because I don't like having characters feel unplayable without a good group to support them.

The_Duke · May 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

I've respecced my DK as a hybrid.

Pelinal's, dreugh king slayer plus molag kenna and velidreth

DW swords on the front bar, inferno staff on the back.

Front bar is just over 4k weapon/spell damage. Major and minor brutality, flawless dawn breaker, rearming trap. Soon as you hit that ult both magi and stam bars refill.

It's a lot of fun, but even with 4k damage it's a struggle with only 22k stam/magi. Having to use DKS jewellry really hurts too because of the healthy, but nothing else buffs weapon damage as much as DKS.

I'm farming some undaunted infiltrator jewellery to try swapping out DKS. Robust jewellery with max magi set bonus. See how it plays out.

My DK is heavy armor so I use spell weave 1kena and 5 pelinals. I hit 4k W/S damage before wrath. In heavy spell weave give you the highest total with the most uptime ratio. Ravager and Clever Alch each have bonus's that dont lend themselves to hybrid builds and have the lowest uptime in comparison.

With all points into stam as a dark elf my fire morphs hit almost as hard (1k difference) than their stamina counter parts. Embers heals outweigh the damage of its other morph plus procs spell weave.

The build works well in PvP.

DocFrost72 · May 2017

Sorceress. 5 piece shacklebreaker, 5 piece spriggans, thief stone. In PvE I had to run inner light on both bars, but then I also had 27k of both stat pools (18k health), as well as 61% crit with both weapon and spell critical. That, and when my weapon damage enchant procced, I'd have 3k weapon dmg and 2.5k spell damage.

So much for "low stats"

I might have to go this route for PvP and see how it fairs.

Sakiri · May 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Remove Heavy attack Resource Regen being tied to it solely. Instead Tie it to a passive that activates after a brief moment of not using a resource pool. This passive effects both mag and stam independently and simultaneously such that the weapon you have is irrelevant as to which passive activates. Using an ability that drains that resource pool pauses that regen. Have the initial tick of this regen be short enough that it can proc once during a full light attack, and a few times dependent on the length of a heavy attack. Now the player can choose to light/heavy/wait to regain a single resource if they're specced that way, but if you want to build hybrid you'll deal less damage, but can replace heavy/light/waiting with abilities from the other resource pool. Such that speccing for high damage on a single resource turns you into a bursty class, and in order to rely on one resource for a prolonged period you've got to focus more on regen than damage. Or you can build hybrid, who deal less upfront damage (because of split attributes), but even out in terms of total sustained damage.

Now if you spec for full damage in one resource you end up burning out fast while having the highest tooltip damages. If you spec for hybrid your tooltips are lower, but since you can replace heavy attacks with other skills/light weaving you're doing comparable sustained damage. If you choose single resource but want sustain you'll have to sacrifice a bit of damage to increase the passive in combat regen bonuses, and you end up being the same sustained damage as a hybrid, but end up having to wait/light/heavy attack more often (but less so than if you were full damage specced).

WoW's 5 second rule(don't cast for 5 sec and Mana starts regenerating again) was not fun, they removed it for a reason.

I'd rather not see them add it here.

Nemesis7884 · May 2017

i think diminishing returns with resources makes a lot of sense, we have the same with cp in the end...wonder why they got ridd of it

max_only · May 2017

I'm pretty sure saptanks, aka magblade tanks, are hybrids no?

Galwylin · May 2017

I think of the old classic EQ druid where your attack skills were good, not the best and your healing was good, not the best. That was a hybrid. You did everything well but not as well as a dedicated damage dealer or healer. And so could solo easier. Really I don't see why they don't do like the CP are now. 32 points into one of the pools will give you 75% of its power. You won't be the most powerful damage or healer but close enough for some.

Tannus15 · May 2017

The_Duke wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I've respecced my DK as a hybrid.

Pelinal's, dreugh king slayer plus molag kenna and velidreth

DW swords on the front bar, inferno staff on the back.

Front bar is just over 4k weapon/spell damage. Major and minor brutality, flawless dawn breaker, rearming trap. Soon as you hit that ult both magi and stam bars refill.

It's a lot of fun, but even with 4k damage it's a struggle with only 22k stam/magi. Having to use DKS jewellry really hurts too because of the healthy, but nothing else buffs weapon damage as much as DKS.

I'm farming some undaunted infiltrator jewellery to try swapping out DKS. Robust jewellery with max magi set bonus. See how it plays out.

My DK is heavy armor so I use spell weave 1kena and 5 pelinals. I hit 4k W/S damage before wrath. In heavy spell weave give you the highest total with the most uptime ratio. Ravager and Clever Alch each have bonus's that dont lend themselves to hybrid builds and have the lowest uptime in comparison.

With all points into stam as a dark elf my fire morphs hit almost as hard (1k difference) than their stamina counter parts. Embers heals outweigh the damage of its other morph plus procs spell weave.

The build works well in PvP.

Yeah, I was thinking of swapping to heavy, but I thought the 12% weapon damage for medium armour would outweigh wrath. Also I had a lot more leather available than ingots.

The_Duke · May 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

I've respecced my DK as a hybrid.

Pelinal's, dreugh king slayer plus molag kenna and velidreth

DW swords on the front bar, inferno staff on the back.

Front bar is just over 4k weapon/spell damage. Major and minor brutality, flawless dawn breaker, rearming trap. Soon as you hit that ult both magi and stam bars refill.

It's a lot of fun, but even with 4k damage it's a struggle with only 22k stam/magi. Having to use DKS jewellry really hurts too because of the healthy, but nothing else buffs weapon damage as much as DKS.

I'm farming some undaunted infiltrator jewellery to try swapping out DKS. Robust jewellery with max magi set bonus. See how it plays out.

My DK is heavy armor so I use spell weave 1kena and 5 pelinals. I hit 4k W/S damage before wrath. In heavy spell weave give you the highest total with the most uptime ratio. Ravager and Clever Alch each have bonus's that dont lend themselves to hybrid builds and have the lowest uptime in comparison.

With all points into stam as a dark elf my fire morphs hit almost as hard (1k difference) than their stamina counter parts. Embers heals outweigh the damage of its other morph plus procs spell weave.

The build works well in PvP.

Yeah, I was thinking of swapping to heavy, but I thought the 12% weapon damage for medium armour would outweigh wrath. Also I had a lot more leather available than ingots.

The 12% doesn't apply to my build since I use spellweave which is spell damage of course. I get 4k weapon damage without wrath this way in heavy armor. Armor of truth would also be good as whip throws people off balance and would proc the set.

Nemesis7884 · May 2017

max_only wrote: »

I'm pretty sure saptanks, aka magblade tanks, are hybrids no?

some tanks can be hybrids sure, but they are also specifically designed for one purpose and don't do any damage

Sneaky-Snurr · May 2017

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I have changed my stamplar and stamblade to a hybrid a few weeks before the new changes in Morrowind take place and that has been one of the best decisions I've ever made so far in this game.

Contrary to popular belief, hybrids can perform very well (if not on par with one-resource-builds) in PvP and PvE. Regens would be low if you're running a hybrid but that's okay because you draw from both resources for healing, attacks and defence.
In effect, my hybrid characters are the least affected by nerfs from the latest patch compared to my other stam & magicka characters.

My advice? Make a hybrid and see for yourself how you'd like it.

Almost all abilities scale off of your max magicka or max stamina, depending on which resource the ability uses. You can't have both pools be large at the same time. You can split between max stam and max magicka and get maybe 20k on each, in which case all of your abilities will hit like a wet noodle. You could run one large pool and one small pool, but the abilities that scale off the small pool will be so weak that they aren't worth using. With the current system, there just really is no way to make a magicka/stamina hybrid perform nearly as well as if you went fully into one or the other.

@Baconfat79
Then you haven't tried playing a hybrid build seriously.

My hybrid Templar has 3.3k WD and SD unbuffed, 31k stam and 17k mag (26k stam and ~25k mag if I spec for resource pool 'balance'). Yes, those stats are achievable and my hybrid Templar wears 6 heavy and 1 medium, we all know that is not optimised in terms of armor type combinations.
Of course, hybrids are generally weaker to their single resource builds but it's not weak as in they 'hit like a wet noodle' like you claim because they don't.
That is also to say that they don't hit like a truck/train/airplane either, they just hit hard enough I can assure you.

And like I said, regens are not an issue as you have sizeable resource pools. When one resource is at ~40%, you have another resource at >80% to dish out damage/healing. This has a lot to do with resource management.
Again, I must stress this, you should really try make a hybrid properly because you'll never know once you try it. Properly.

PlagueSD wrote: »

Pelinal's Aptitude (9 Traits)
(2 items) Adds 1064 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.

Hybrid spec set??

@PlagueSD
Yes, it works great for hybrids and I'm using it on both of my hybrid characters.