morrowjen wrote: »

Again. Beta testers used to get PAID with real money.

Where in OBLIVION did you get THAT idea? In 20 years of Beta testing games, I have never seen any testers get paid. At best, they got a pet to show ingame recognition (like the monkey.) At the least, they got to preview the game and add, "I beta tested this game" to thier signatures.

Tryxus wrote: »

I want a Shroom Beetle for a pet... if you know what I mean

That would be a nice reward for those of us who did the beta. YES. But honestly, I have to agree with the people who are feeling left out. We did get a chance to play through the content early. And while I'd like a compliment to my Imagin Monkey from the original beta of ESO, I do not feel it is warranted or needed for the Morrowind beta.

Night_Watch wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

So how are you giving feedback, from /bug and /feedback?

If you're just joining a beta and playing the game and getting hours in it, but not actually giving feedback then you're not "working hard" like you claimed people did. You're just playing an earlier buggier version of the game.

There was some fantastic feedback on everything from skills to lore, and people really put some effort in. Most of those people did it out of a passion for the game and a desire to improve it. Not because they expected some shiny pet at the end.

If you have to use a pet to entice people into testing then they're not going to be very good testers, this is my same argument against rewards for bot reports or bug reports.
People will only do it for the reward and choose the path of least work which is to just copy reports of bugs others make.

And therein lies the problem! Give me a reward because I took part regardless of any feedback in any form that I gave or how long I was involved.

It is very true that if you entice folk to test with, let's face it, a trivial reward you are not going to get quality testing - for the most part. The path of least work will, undoubtedly, be taken by trhe majority.

I would love to continue this conversation ( I find it fascinating ) but I'm being called away and will not be back for at least a few hours so will, maybe come back later if I can.

Not sure why my prior post didn't post but I did in fact participate in bug feedback. I did not participate in forum feedback. I will say no more with regards to your post as I believe in remaining respectful. Suffice it to say, I know well what I've done beta wise.

Turelus wrote: »

morrowjen wrote: »

As to Fred and Bob: NO! But I would say forum feedback isn't the end all be all and hours should matter as much as how long you've been in. And no I don't find it ridiculous. And small tokens help -- they make folks want to participate. A lot of ppl here don't like to acknowledge that players don't like the 2 server system with reg and PTS. That keeps many from using the PTS.

I also agree that a lot of good points have be raised in this thread. I don't agree with them all but I'm not blind.

So how are you giving feedback, from /bug and /feedback?

If you're just joining a beta and playing the game and getting hours in it, but not actually giving feedback then you're not "working hard" like you claimed people did. You're just playing an earlier buggier version of the game.

There was some fantastic feedback on everything from skills to lore, and people really put some effort in. Most of those people did it out of a passion for the game and a desire to improve it. Not because they expected some shiny pet at the end.

If you have to use a pet to entice people into testing then they're not going to be very good testers, this is my same argument against rewards for bot reports or bug reports.
People will only do it for the reward and choose the path of least work which is to just copy reports of bugs others make.

They gave feedback via all of those and there was a beta forum.

People seem to be under the impression that alpha and beta testing is fun and all you do is enjoy the game being tested. Welp, I have a news flash: It's not all it's cracked up to be and I'm talking about ANY game not necessarily THIS game.

I feel like the issue with the stupid monkey is like 2nd graders crying that some people got a RED ribbon. Let it go folks, let it go.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

morrowjen wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Because beta rewards are stupid, don't reward those that actually tested and are effectively just a free item to anyone who won a lottery to get in.

They reinforce that beta participation is about cool swag and showing people not in beta they're not as cool, and do nothing to promote what betas are (and should be) which is early testing.

I mean I can see where you are coming from with the lotto system but it's always been that way - going wayyyyyyyy back. I also remember the days we got PAID for beta testing! I didn't participate in prior beta testing for ESO but I wish I had.

People have no clue how screwed that's become.

@morrowjen , those are paid beta testers, you know, employees? Please show your letter of employment w/ZoS. Please show the scripted events you were obligated to test in order to have beta access?

You were given opportunity to see content pre-release, going where you will, doing what you wanted, with only mild suggestion from ZoS. You weren't obligated to log a certain number of hours and give dire specifics in terms of feedback.

You weren't doing work, hate to break it to you.

Turelus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

My Monkey is a lawyer . I wish you luck in your investigation . But first let's see your badge ! Show us your badge Forum Copper .

Here's my badge, the Khajiit who sold it to me assured me it was entirely authentic and with it I could police these forums on behalf of ZOS_BillE.

@Turelus , I could be wrong, but the backwards Ouroboros might be an indicator of questionable authenticity...well, that and the fact that it was purchased from a Khajiit. ( No offense, @SantieClaws )

No offense at all. Claws Industries pride themselves on all our quality goods - be they collectable badges or designer skooma bubblers yes (A Santie Claws original bubbler can be yours for the right price!). This one she suspects the badge was made by one of the orcs. This one she will have words when she gets home later.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

morrowjen wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Closed Beta rewards are pretty exclusive and unfair. ZOS has only ever rewarded beta participation for their Open Beta prior to ESO's launch in 2014, so if they were to reward players for testing again, it would likely be in that same kind of scenario, i.e. not for participation in a closed off thing. That being said, this was less of an actual beta, and more of an invite-only PTS under NDA, they seem similar, but I think the use of "beta" for a 3 year old + game is kind of nonsensical and wrong.

I sunk a metric ton of hours into testing this game as did many, many others and tbh we do ZOS a real service -- one you used to get real money for. And lest we forget almost all betas were closed and most still are. Finally, let's not act like a non-combat pet is some big reward.

I too spent a lot of time on the PTS, as I always tend to do each Update cycle, but I do not feel entitled to a reward because of it and I think it is petty to expect one for voluntary work. The reason why they gave everyone a reward for the open beta back in 2014 was to offer an incentive, but this time the fact that it was Morrowind and that it was "closed and exclusive" made it unnecessary.

Saturn wrote: »

morrowjen wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Closed Beta rewards are pretty exclusive and unfair. ZOS has only ever rewarded beta participation for their Open Beta prior to ESO's launch in 2014, so if they were to reward players for testing again, it would likely be in that same kind of scenario, i.e. not for participation in a closed off thing. That being said, this was less of an actual beta, and more of an invite-only PTS under NDA, they seem similar, but I think the use of "beta" for a 3 year old + game is kind of nonsensical and wrong.

I sunk a metric ton of hours into testing this game as did many, many others and tbh we do ZOS a real service -- one you used to get real money for. And lest we forget almost all betas were closed and most still are. Finally, let's not act like a non-combat pet is some big reward.

I too spent a lot of time on the PTS, as I always tend to do each Update cycle, but I do not feel entitled to a reward because of it and I think it is petty to expect one for voluntary work. The reason why they gave everyone a reward for the open beta back in 2014 was to offer an incentive, but this time the fact that it was Morrowind and that it was "closed and exclusive" made it unnecessary.

I asked a question for Pete's Sake. I don't feel "entitled" which is a loaded word if ever there was one. And believe it or not the younglings no jack about Morrowind and feel no special love for it or desire to test it. I mean damn it's possible to argue against a reward while being respectful.

morrowjen wrote: »

You really have a bee in your bonnet and keep ignoring answers.

Reading back I did miss a reply on page one and my appologies. I'm still not entirely sure how you provided feedback to ZOS if not via the forums, written or verbally.
If you were simply playing the game they could gather some data from that but it's not what was requested in the beta, I have to be careful what I say regarding request because even with Morrowind out the door I believe the forums discussions may still be NDA.

morrowjen wrote: »

Might check my username. While I get you vehemently oppose signs of appreciation. Many don't.

I don't understand this one I am afraid, what do you mean by checking your username? Also yes many are on both sides of this debate as with many, however I am debating my side and as of yet haven't seen a system where people who really deserve a reward are granted one over those who just logged in once or twice to test their builds for personal reasons.

morrowjen wrote: »

While I've been occasionally disrespectful to you, I've mostly given you nothing but respect even as you insulted me,. You started out that way and continue to hammer away. Maybe one day you will realize not everyone had to agree w/you. It plain flabbergasting that it all started with an innocent question.

I've not taken anything said here as disrespect, at most heated debate.
I'm fully aware people don't agree with me, I don't see eye to eye with people on many issues and I debate hard when I find a subject I am passionate about.
I am more than willing to raise my hand and say "hey I was wrong on this, I actually changed my mind because of your case" but so far nothing has been presented to me to do that, so I continue to pick apart the arguments other have made.

If it's you wish I will naff off out the thread, I haven't meant offence here and I generally don't go into threads looking to upset people.

Tasear wrote: »

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

I want a Shroom Beetle for a pet... if you know what I mean

That would be a nice reward for those of us who did the beta. YES. But honestly, I have to agree with the people who are feeling left out. We did get a chance to play through the content early. And while I'd like a compliment to my Imagin Monkey from the original beta of ESO, I do not feel it is warranted or needed for the Morrowind beta.

but to be honest not everything in life gives a fair chance. People can't get first year anniversary cake nor the 2nd next year.
They could just put up a variant of item x later if they really wanted. It would give sales and everyone access. But I kinda want forum badge if I had to say anything. Other forums have them for such events so why not , either way thanks would be really nice as it's in manners after we did our part.

I can agree with a forum badge or something like that. An in-game item might be too much. While I like to collect all the virtual goodies I can, I am really on the fence on this topic leaning very much to the side of "we got to play early" argument.

Turelus wrote: »

If you were simply playing the game they could gather some data from that but it's not what was requested in the beta, I have to be careful what I say regarding request because even with Morrowind out the door I believe the forums discussions may still be NDA.

I believe the NDA lifted last week - according to the ESO Live show two weeks ago when they did the Morrowind starter walk-through. They mentioned the NDA would be lifted a week before early access. Plus, check out YouTube, there is so much content out there for Morrowind, it's hard to keep up.

why must us beta "testers" get anything? playing morrowind before anyone else was good enough for me. it let me see if buying the dlc is worth while. For me the DLC will be well worth it, for the pvp focused not so much. I like story and morrowind is a whole new branch of story so yay.

Runs wrote: »

Wut...

We are getting a reward, well some of us.




Personally, I think it's a bit overkill but I'm not complaining. I think a small pet would have more than sufficed. Or even just a thank you email. But I did leave the typo in there on purpose, just so maybe people who didn't continue to read would have a way to know the screenshot is entirely real. But how many people will continue reading before losing their minds? Even something this short...

nice...id think i spent taht much testing the pts but i wasnt counting lol. congrats to all that got one and i do agree that its a bit overkill lol. cant wait to see some running around in game XD.

Definitely no need for reward on closed beta considering many who wish they could have tested didn't have access. I could see rewards on open betas for testing past a certain threshold. Not that any of the past rewards have had any value to me.

Turelus wrote: »

Because beta rewards are stupid, don't reward those that actually tested and are effectively just a free item to anyone who won a lottery to get in.

They reinforce that beta participation is about cool swag and showing people not in beta they're not as cool, and do nothing to promote what betas are (and should be) which is early testing for the developers.

*Edit to clarify testing for the developers, not yourself.

You realize the 100% of the good changes they've made is because of the hundreds of people in the closed beta who were in the private forum for hours trying to talk with a wall like Zos?

Be more grateful because some people really worked hard to show how wrong Zenimax was with most of the changes and as someone who was also there I can definitely tell you that the changes they made to sustain are already a big reward for us .