Can somebody explain what's the big deal with animation cancelling?

vestahls · May 2017

But WHY, nobody ever explains this. Everyone keeps ignoring the whole point of the thread lol

People find something that gives them an edge over their previous performance and other noobs and they don't want to lose it. They enjoy doing more DPS over doing less DPS. People don't want to lose things that give them good feels. Even if the thing is as inane as a click tactic.

Nyladreas · May 2017

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

I could write here a looong post, and respond about your every question. But I won't do it, for currect state, I got SIMPLE question for you.

What the hell is diffucult in putting light attacks between skills?

Lag. If it's a good day my ping is only 300.

My latency can shoot upwards of 1-2k during raids (the time we raid just happens to be a time when my internet royally *** itself everyday,) and you can still weave. I'll miss a light attack here and there, but that's more due to the terrible console frames than ping. Commands still go through, they just take longer. Practice more.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

SimeonTregarth wrote: »

animation cancelling, this as a "feature" ... all of the top tier players ...

1) animation cancelling is not a feature, it is an unintended ability that the devs don't know how to fix. although, with this next patch coming on the 22nd if you animation cancel with the resources the way the devs have them now set in the next patch then you will be very quickly out of resources.

2) there is no such thing as "top tier players", we are all just renting space and characters in this MMO, people are allowed to do as they wish with those characters.
at no time should you publicly consider and speak of other players as "Top Tier" as you put it, just because you admire how they play, it is not only insulting and embarrassing to other players, but it is also against the TOS.

How can you say there isn't top tier players? You're not serious right? Does that make NFL players not top tier because people can play American football how they wish and some people play for fun? Does it make Club Soccer (Football) players not top tier because other players do not wish to commit so much time? You're discrediting players who have practiced and actually risen to be some of the better players in the game. There are incredible PvE and PvP players that are top tier. "Top tier" is not an opinion. If someone consistently puts up leader board scores or is constantly crushing people in PvP and in duels then they are probably top tier. You may have a difference of opinion on exactly how good they are but they are "top tier" nonetheless.

See this is the problem right here LOL. It's nowhere near real sport and never will be. The whole world won't bow down before you because you can kill other players in pvp or do more dps in pvp lol. Everyone is so delusional. XD just keyboard warriors and mouse wizards thinking they're on par with top athletes LOL. yet most can't run 50 yards or throw a ball at all. Literally achieving nothing playing this game. If in 10 years ESO dies. What will you have left besides memories? Now what will this top tier NFL player have? How will you look, how much money will you have, how much fame will you have, what will be your personwlity and character? How many partners will you have? Etc. You'll still be the same as u r now. That NFL to tier player will have 1000x more because that's real work and dedication.

Then again I never even understood all the hype and excitement in watching sport and putting individuals above others in the first place. Every team is a team for a reason and no top tier athlete achieved his success and fame by himself. There's usually many people behind his or her success that are never mentioned.

Man I'm SO GLAD I left this elite gaming BS and stopped being a nerd. Now I see how stupid and cringy i must've looked for years.

Danksta · May 2017

There are two reasons I'm strongly against it.

1. I feel it would make combat feel slower and clunky.
2. It adds a layer of skill to combat.

With that being said I only would start "attacking" the OP when they're unreasonable and have no interest in a civilized discussion.

Izaki · May 2017

gethemshauna wrote: »

I could write here a looong post, and respond about your every question. But I won't do it, for currect state, I got SIMPLE question for you.

What the hell is diffucult in putting light attacks between skills?

^ this.

Vipstaakki · May 2017

Danksta wrote: »

There are two reasons I'm strongly against it.

1. I feel it would make combat feel slower and clunky.
2. It adds a layer of skill to combat.

With that being said I only would start "attacking" the OP when they're unreasonable and have no interest in a civilized discussion.

Since when was abusing bugs considered a skill?
Welp, i guess using cheat engine is now a skill as well. After all it also makes combat feel faster and less clunky and gives you an advantage over everyone else if you know how to abuse it.
Heck, we might even consider botting a skill. Since it gives you an advantage over others but only if you know how to abuse it.

Magdalina · May 2017

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

There are two reasons I'm strongly against it.

1. I feel it would make combat feel slower and clunky.
2. It adds a layer of skill to combat.

With that being said I only would start "attacking" the OP when they're unreasonable and have no interest in a civilized discussion.

Since when was abusing bugs considered a skill?
Welp, i guess using cheat engine is now a skill as well. After all it also makes combat feel faster and less clunky and gives you an advantage over everyone else if you know how to abuse it.

Why do so many people call it abusing a bug? That's just silly. It's at the core of the system.
If you start charging up an attack and then see a monster/player performing a heavy hitting attack at you, do you just stand there patiently waiting for your animation to end, letting them kill you?
In this case, I think noticing incoming danger and quickly adjusting to survive it takes more skill than just standing there dying. But hey, to each their own

It also confuses me when people keep bringing up the "unfair advantage" it gives you. How so? It doesn't depend on your race, class or gear. You don't need to spend countless hours farming to obtain it, you don't need an op team backing you up with 20 buffs to achieve it. You don't need to do any specific content you might hate in order to unlock it. You can do it at absolutely any level. That sounds like the fairest thing possible to me, open to literally everyone.

Danksta · May 2017

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

There are two reasons I'm strongly against it.

1. I feel it would make combat feel slower and clunky.
2. It adds a layer of skill to combat.

With that being said I only would start "attacking" the OP when they're unreasonable and have no interest in a civilized discussion.

Since when was abusing bugs considered a skill?
Welp, i guess using cheat engine is now a skill as well. After all it also makes combat feel faster and less clunky and gives you an advantage over everyone else if you know how to abuse it.
Heck, we might even consider botting a skill. Since it gives you an advantage over others but only if you know how to abuse it.

... and this is exactly what I mean by unreasonable. ^^

Vipstaakki · May 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

There are two reasons I'm strongly against it.

1. I feel it would make combat feel slower and clunky.
2. It adds a layer of skill to combat.

With that being said I only would start "attacking" the OP when they're unreasonable and have no interest in a civilized discussion.

Since when was abusing bugs considered a skill?
Welp, i guess using cheat engine is now a skill as well. After all it also makes combat feel faster and less clunky and gives you an advantage over everyone else if you know how to abuse it.

Why do so many people call it abusing a bug? That's just silly. It's at the core of the system.
If you start charging up an attack and then see a monster/player performing a heavy hitting attack at you, do you just stand there patiently waiting for your animation to end, letting them kill you?
In this case, I think noticing incoming danger and quickly adjusting to survive it takes more skill than just standing there dying. But hey, to each their own

It also confuses me when people keep bringing up the "unfair advantage" it gives you. How so? It doesn't depend on your race, class or gear. You don't need to spend countless hours farming to obtain it, you don't need an op team backing you up with 20 buffs to achieve it. You don't need to do any specific content you might hate in order to unlock it. You can do it at absolutely any level. That sounds like the fairest thing possible to me, open to literally everyone.

First off, this is a game and not real life. You don't die if a troll hits you. No, not even with a really lousy character. If it is realism you want you should try roguelikes like Tales of Maj'eyal or Nethack. There you can get seriously wounded by a single hit just like in real life.

Second. Why is animation cancelling any different from a cheat engine? Using cheat engine doesn't depend on your race, class or gear and you definitely don't need to spend countless hours farming to obtain these cheats. You don't need an op team backing you up with buffs to use these cheats and you can literally use cheat engine anywhere without any unlocks and at any level and it is literally open to anyone who knows how to do it. People who are caught animation cancelling should be permanently banned from ESO.

Mjollo · May 2017

To me, Animation cancelling has become so normal that it's a subconscious action no matter what class i play. i naturally have to weave an auto attack in there or cancel an animation to keep my hands from fidgeting. it's also implemented on purpose into a lot of the builds i play i.e. stamina nightblades. I have a brawler burst build i use for both pve and pvp that uses a sword and board front bar. in order to get the massive amount of damage out fast, it requires me to light attack-bash weave in order to cancel surprise attacks and my execute efficiently. now, i love this build because most stamina nightblades in this game are either bow/2h users or snipe gankers. either way this build makes me feel unique because it requires extra mechanics to perform and isn't something a newer player could pick up instantly.

taking away animation cancelling would get rid of combat styles like this and ive played either games with more dramatic cooldowns. it's not fun at all. you just smash keyboard buttons every 2 seconds and your mouse would be used for nothing but steering the camera.

dday3six · May 2017

SimeonTregarth wrote: »

Please wait a moment while I put on my flame resistant suit... There, all ready now!

I am one of those players with physical disabilities that make it very hard to utilize animation cancelling. That is partially the same thing as weaving, right? If not then just ignore the rest of this post. The problem with having this as a "feature" in the game is that everything else gets balanced around it. Since all of the top tier players utilize some form of animation cancelling the developers make decisions based upon that play style. Basically they assume everyone does it. So they step in and nerf dps or sustain (Morrowind?) or whatever without any seeming concern for the rest of us.

I mainly solo because I don't want to inflict my disability constrained dps on anyone else. While I enjoy the game very much I would like to be able to join in structured group activities from time to time (I do casual grouping for dolmens and world bosses, etc.). But as it is, even with a reasonable build and a decent rotation I will never be able to put out competitive dps numbers. Now I am not saying everyone else should be nerfed just so I can be competitive. There will always be better and more skilled players than me but I feel like animation cancelling adds an artificial barrier that unfairly impacts a significant portion of the player base. That includes not just old geezers with bad hands like me but also those with poor latency and perhaps other issues as well.

Even if animation cancelling were eliminated I would still never achieve top tier dps. But at least I would not feel like I was locked out of much of the game because the dps requirements were "balanced" around animation cancelling.

Okay, I'm done. I'll just slip back under my rock now. :-)

AC and weaving are required to put out competitive DPS. However they're not required to put out DPS capable of clearing content. A majority of the game is solo-friendly, with little to no dps requirements. Its not until vetern dungeons that dps checks start to be more constraining, but even then they're able to be cleared without either AC or weaving. Unless you're talking about progression vet trial runs. Not using AC or weaving will not lock ou out of content.

Also two pieces if advice. First, neither weaving nor AC needs to be done at break neck speed. Doing it too fast causes not only fatigue but also more mistakes. Timing is much more important. Find the rhythm that works best for you. Second, since weaving seems to be the main issue for you. There are heavy attack builds which focus far less on light attack weaving. You might check those out.

QuebraRegra · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

It would slow the combat down so much without it.

Imagine your use a dizzying and mid way you realise a frag it coming at you?

Without animation cancelling you'd just stand there and take it, you wouldn't be able to react.

Because blocking or dodging in that situation would be considered animation cancelling, removing that would remove people's ability to react in combat.

Sounds like very boring combat to me.

not quite... simply canceling out of the animation/power should be allowed, however the dmg/affect should also be cancelled.

The problem is the exploiters (now "feature" users), have their cake and eat it too, as they can cancel the animation, yet still reap the rewards of the cast, without the lengthy delay. But hey, WROBEL luvs it, so why not right?

Sigtric · May 2017

SimeonTregarth wrote: »

Please wait a moment while I put on my flame resistant suit... There, all ready now!

I am one of those players with physical disabilities that make it very hard to utilize animation cancelling. That is partially the same thing as weaving, right? If not then just ignore the rest of this post. The problem with having this as a "feature" in the game is that everything else gets balanced around it. Since all of the top tier players utilize some form of animation cancelling the developers make decisions based upon that play style. Basically they assume everyone does it. So they step in and nerf dps or sustain (Morrowind?) or whatever without any seeming concern for the rest of us.

I mainly solo because I don't want to inflict my disability constrained dps on anyone else. While I enjoy the game very much I would like to be able to join in structured group activities from time to time (I do casual grouping for dolmens and world bosses, etc.). But as it is, even with a reasonable build and a decent rotation I will never be able to put out competitive dps numbers. Now I am not saying everyone else should be nerfed just so I can be competitive. There will always be better and more skilled players than me but I feel like animation cancelling adds an artificial barrier that unfairly impacts a significant portion of the player base. That includes not just old geezers with bad hands like me but also those with poor latency and perhaps other issues as well.

Even if animation cancelling were eliminated I would still never achieve top tier dps. But at least I would not feel like I was locked out of much of the game because the dps requirements were "balanced" around animation cancelling.

Okay, I'm done. I'll just slip back under my rock now. :-)

I get what you're saying, but the trouble is you don't need AC to do the content in this game. You do if you want your name on the leaderboards but you can still go do group content with out actively trying to AC.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

People have gotten used to it by now (for the most part) and it would slow things down even further, which is unwanted.

I think the problem lays in the ambiguity of it. Up until you have it just right, it's not intuitive as to whether it's working or not and when, in the timing, to perform it.

You simply have to figure it out at some point. And, if you don't use addons, it's even more guesswork.

There should be a point of no return in any skill, where either follows through (and produces damage) or can be nullified (and does not produce damage) in favor or something else (bar swap, roll dodge, block, etc)

The problem arises when you get visuals telling you one thing (that woven light attack animation looks like it's there, but there is no damage following through) but your parse or other visuals (no damage indication on screen) are telling you another.

At that point, you have to try to figure out if your game's broken, it's a bug (the "not what I expected to happen part, not the A.C. part), or if you're simply doing something wrong.

Problem with the very last part is that there's no good way to distinguish between which of the three it is. Forums, limited benefit youtube videos (watching and doing are quite different), and sheer accident are the only ways you 'learn' how exactly this works.

There are tutorials for roll dodge, block, and basic combat - there should be something in-game to show you this, now intended mechanic, as well. EDIT: There should be something in game covering what things take precedence (cancel) which other things, too.

Once you've got it, it does make combat feel much more alive and dynamic. Taking it away would be a huge mistake.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

DoShazarr wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

I could write here a looong post, and respond about your every question. But I won't do it, for currect state, I got SIMPLE question for you.

What the hell is diffucult in putting light attacks between skills?

Lag. If it's a good day my ping is only 300.

My latency can shoot upwards of 1-2k during raids (the time we raid just happens to be a time when my internet royally *** itself everyday,) and you can still weave. I'll miss a light attack here and there, but that's more due to the terrible console frames than ping. Commands still go through, they just take longer. Practice more.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

SimeonTregarth wrote: »

animation cancelling, this as a "feature" ... all of the top tier players ...

1) animation cancelling is not a feature, it is an unintended ability that the devs don't know how to fix. although, with this next patch coming on the 22nd if you animation cancel with the resources the way the devs have them now set in the next patch then you will be very quickly out of resources.

2) there is no such thing as "top tier players", we are all just renting space and characters in this MMO, people are allowed to do as they wish with those characters.
at no time should you publicly consider and speak of other players as "Top Tier" as you put it, just because you admire how they play, it is not only insulting and embarrassing to other players, but it is also against the TOS.

How can you say there isn't top tier players? You're not serious right? Does that make NFL players not top tier because people can play American football how they wish and some people play for fun? Does it make Club Soccer (Football) players not top tier because other players do not wish to commit so much time? You're discrediting players who have practiced and actually risen to be some of the better players in the game. There are incredible PvE and PvP players that are top tier. "Top tier" is not an opinion. If someone consistently puts up leader board scores or is constantly crushing people in PvP and in duels then they are probably top tier. You may have a difference of opinion on exactly how good they are but they are "top tier" nonetheless.

See this is the problem right here LOL. It's nowhere near real sport and never will be. The whole world won't bow down before you because you can kill other players in pvp or do more dps in pvp lol. Everyone is so delusional. XD just keyboard warriors and mouse wizards thinking they're on par with top athletes LOL. yet most can't run 50 yards or throw a ball at all. Literally achieving nothing playing this game. If in 10 years ESO dies. What will you have left besides memories? Now what will this top tier NFL player have? How will you look, how much money will you have, how much fame will you have, what will be your personwlity and character? How many partners will you have? Etc. You'll still be the same as u r now. That NFL to tier player will have 1000x more because that's real work and dedication.

Then again I never even understood all the hype and excitement in watching sport and putting individuals above others in the first place. Every team is a team for a reason and no top tier athlete achieved his success and fame by himself. There's usually many people behind his or her success that are never mentioned.

Man I'm SO GLAD I left this elite gaming BS and stopped being a nerd. Now I see how stupid and cringy i must've looked for years.

@DoShazarr , these people would beg to differ:

https://esportsearnings.com/tournaments

Magdalina · May 2017

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

There are two reasons I'm strongly against it.

1. I feel it would make combat feel slower and clunky.
2. It adds a layer of skill to combat.

With that being said I only would start "attacking" the OP when they're unreasonable and have no interest in a civilized discussion.

Since when was abusing bugs considered a skill?
Welp, i guess using cheat engine is now a skill as well. After all it also makes combat feel faster and less clunky and gives you an advantage over everyone else if you know how to abuse it.

Why do so many people call it abusing a bug? That's just silly. It's at the core of the system.
If you start charging up an attack and then see a monster/player performing a heavy hitting attack at you, do you just stand there patiently waiting for your animation to end, letting them kill you?
In this case, I think noticing incoming danger and quickly adjusting to survive it takes more skill than just standing there dying. But hey, to each their own

It also confuses me when people keep bringing up the "unfair advantage" it gives you. How so? It doesn't depend on your race, class or gear. You don't need to spend countless hours farming to obtain it, you don't need an op team backing you up with 20 buffs to achieve it. You don't need to do any specific content you might hate in order to unlock it. You can do it at absolutely any level. That sounds like the fairest thing possible to me, open to literally everyone.

First off, this is a game and not real life. You don't die if a troll hits you. No, not even with a really lousy character. If it is realism you want you should try roguelikes like Tales of Maj'eyal or Nethack. There you can get seriously wounded by a single hit just like in real life.

Second. Why is animation cancelling any different from a cheat engine? Using cheat engine doesn't depend on your race, class or gear and you definitely don't need to spend countless hours farming to obtain these cheats. You don't need an op team backing you up with buffs to use these cheats and you can literally use cheat engine anywhere without any unlocks and at any level and it is literally open to anyone who knows how to do it. People who are caught animation cancelling should be permanently banned from ESO.

...wut? Have you ever done vet trials or even dungeons? Or even WB without a zerg to back you up?
FYI, Velidreth hits for about 50-60k with her heavy(that's in heavy armor). Yeah, no thanks, I think I'm going to cancel everything I can in order to block that. Heaps of bosses in vet dungeons do actually, and a lot of them even have mechanics specifically ignoring taunt and targeting someone else. And yeah, they can one shot you if you don't block/dodge/shield in time. Even WB do. Try it some time. Then show us a video of you at least soloing a WB without ani canceling once.

I'd also love to see you PvP. How about a duel if you're pc na?;) I'm not very good at it but perhaps I could show you just how "weak" eso damage can be.

The difference is CE is an outside program modifying combat. Outside combat modifiers are cheating but in-game, anything you can do is fine unless stated otherwise by Zenimax(which btw they have specifically stated it is NOT an exploit).

Also ban everyone "caught animation cancelling"? Lmao. What's next, ban everyone using food? Ban everyone using a weapon? Heck let's just ban everyone but you.

Vipstaakki · May 2017

I don't see it? You are comparing a MOBA and an MMORPG.

Coilbox · May 2017

Vipstaakki wrote: »

People who are caught animation cancelling should be permanently banned from ESO.

I wont take anything from you seriously after reading something like this...

LOL

Dorrino · May 2017

Sharee wrote: »

Once you swing a sword, you are locked into the animation. For how long depends on the weapon you are using and the skill you are performing, but dodge never gets absolute priority like in ESO.

@Sharee

Yep, i watched DS videos to remind myself how it works. Indeed attack skills start a gcd there.

Sharee wrote: »

As for combat system being different... <shrug> both are over-the-shoulder 3rd person melee simulators. I think if you directly transplanted the DS combat into ESO the game would work just fine. Possibly a bit more difficult

The only real problem of having DS-like (or, say, For Honor-like) combat system in an MMO is the 'MM' part:) Those systems work great 1v1. They can be made to work in 1v2, 1v3 with severe limitations and/or additional 'hacks' (like they do in For Honor).

But anything beyond that will cause the system either to fail or to get rid of gcd for defensive mechanics at least.

A player would be able to react to 3 attacks coming at him in 0.5 sec window. They game's system will disallow him to do so, because after defending against the first attack out of the 3 he will be in a gcd.

This is what i meant by 'different genres'. That combat situations the system is designed to handle are different.

If eso (in both pvp and pve) primarily consisted of duels/1v2 i'd agree with you.

QuebraRegra · May 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

I could write here a looong post, and respond about your every question. But I won't do it, for currect state, I got SIMPLE question for you.

What the hell is diffucult in putting light attacks between skills?

Lag. If it's a good day my ping is only 300.

My latency can shoot upwards of 1-2k during raids (the time we raid just happens to be a time when my internet royally *** itself everyday,) and you can still weave. I'll miss a light attack here and there, but that's more due to the terrible console frames than ping. Commands still go through, they just take longer. Practice more.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

SimeonTregarth wrote: »

animation cancelling, this as a "feature" ... all of the top tier players ...

1) animation cancelling is not a feature, it is an unintended ability that the devs don't know how to fix. although, with this next patch coming on the 22nd if you animation cancel with the resources the way the devs have them now set in the next patch then you will be very quickly out of resources.

2) there is no such thing as "top tier players", we are all just renting space and characters in this MMO, people are allowed to do as they wish with those characters.
at no time should you publicly consider and speak of other players as "Top Tier" as you put it, just because you admire how they play, it is not only insulting and embarrassing to other players, but it is also against the TOS.

How can you say there isn't top tier players? You're not serious right? Does that make NFL players not top tier because people can play American football how they wish and some people play for fun? Does it make Club Soccer (Football) players not top tier because other players do not wish to commit so much time? You're discrediting players who have practiced and actually risen to be some of the better players in the game. There are incredible PvE and PvP players that are top tier. "Top tier" is not an opinion. If someone consistently puts up leader board scores or is constantly crushing people in PvP and in duels then they are probably top tier. You may have a difference of opinion on exactly how good they are but they are "top tier" nonetheless.

See this is the problem right here LOL. It's nowhere near real sport and never will be. The whole world won't bow down before you because you can kill other players in pvp or do more dps in pvp lol. Everyone is so delusional. XD just keyboard warriors and mouse wizards thinking they're on par with top athletes LOL. yet most can't run 50 yards or throw a ball at all. Literally achieving nothing playing this game. If in 10 years ESO dies. What will you have left besides memories? Now what will this top tier NFL player have? How will you look, how much money will you have, how much fame will you have, what will be your personwlity and character? How many partners will you have? Etc. You'll still be the same as u r now. That NFL to tier player will have 1000x more because that's real work and dedication.

Then again I never even understood all the hype and excitement in watching sport and putting individuals above others in the first place. Every team is a team for a reason and no top tier athlete achieved his success and fame by himself. There's usually many people behind his or her success that are never mentioned.

Man I'm SO GLAD I left this elite gaming BS and stopped being a nerd. Now I see how stupid and cringy i must've looked for years.

@DoShazarr , these people would beg to differ:

https://esportsearnings.com/tournaments

"ESPORTS" LOL! just friggin LOL!

alexkdd99 · May 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

This game have many aspects that developers should really focus on fixing and improving yet many people want to change something that is one of the things making this game unique and also works totally fine ?

Lets focus on real issues not create fake ones.

A bug works totally fine? Because that is what it is. At this point i don't care one way or another, but let's not act like this was implemented intentionally.

Making this game unique? By cutting out animations? By that same token they could cut out all bosses from the game, it would be unique. Unique /= good. A sandwich made out of *** would be unique, but not good.

How is a bug a fake issue, just because they choose not to fix it or don't know how to doesn't make it any less of a bug.

Those who like to animation cancel and fight new players in cyrodil is the only reason I would like to see it gone. You keep doing that and it will only drive people away from the game.

I understand veteran players should have an advantage over newer players , but at some point that advantage can become to big.

Arkangeloski · May 2017

DoShazarr wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

These threads are caused by people who reks these ''forum warriors'' . Doesn't matter how . Doing more DPS , better tanking , better healing , beating in duel ... And these people who got beaten in some way , learns how they got beaten and immediately start thinking like ''Wow , that guy is using cheats! I am sure if he wasn't using cheats , I would beat him!'' Where they complain ? Forums , of course . And as you know , lots of people are started to play ESO since Homestead because housing , roleplay etc. More new players > more people getting beaten by others > more forum threads .

What about the ''animation cancelling doesn't require skill'' discussion ^^ Only someone who doesn't know what animation cancelling is can say that . Timing light attacks perfectly for every skill requires practice , hours of practice . Most people doesn't even know what it is . They think you can cast multiple skills at once ^^ Forums are funny . Go to Youtube , watch couple videos on how to do animation cancelling . Learn it properly . I know what you are thinking . ''I know what it is already!'' No you don't . There are 7 animation cancelling with couple other non-important ones . Light cancel , Medium cancel , Heavy cancel , block cancel , swap cancel , roll cancel , bash cancel . Here you go . Why am I trying so hard to make you learn ? Not because I want you to do it . I just want you to know exactly what it is . If you are against it , you will be able to stop yourself from doing it without noticing . I am just trying to help you . If you are against something , you should know what you are against at perfectly . So you don't do it yourself . Here is a guide that is very detailed , fast and to the point . It doesn't cover all of those I said earlier but it covers most of it . It also comes with a very special and powerful cancel works very well in PvP !

Cheers and good luck .

Except I already really do know what it is, been using it for quite a while and don't think it's anything special whatsoever.

Also you ignored a huge chunk of my initial post as I said i don't care and won't care but lots of people are physically unable to do so, yet you keep saying they're just notbthat good. *sadface*

Aww he just cares for the newbz

and them not being able to animation cancel... i never knew there was such people! Well how about you take it a little further? And teach them how to do it master... and just for the record, nobody complains about something that took quite a while to master or take it for granted... only those that can not master it come here and cry about how unatractive or cheesy canceling is.

Coilbox · May 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

How is a bug a fake issue, just because they choose not to fix it or don't know how to doesn't make it any less of a bug.

Just because you call it a bug 20 times more, wont make it a bug. It's just a combat feature, yes, you can cancel some animations in order to squeeze and optimise your DPS, you put some light attacks between skills and get some advantage. Thats skill.
You are not exploiting anything, you are not using 3rd party software, you are not altering anything from the game, just using your tools as quick as you can and squeezing your skills in time as much as possible.
There are no bugs, no exploits, no cheats, just skill.
If you dont like it, dont do it and enjoy your full animations. But dont try to force everyone your opinion.

Mjollo · May 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

I could write here a looong post, and respond about your every question. But I won't do it, for currect state, I got SIMPLE question for you.

What the hell is diffucult in putting light attacks between skills?

Lag. If it's a good day my ping is only 300.

My latency can shoot upwards of 1-2k during raids (the time we raid just happens to be a time when my internet royally *** itself everyday,) and you can still weave. I'll miss a light attack here and there, but that's more due to the terrible console frames than ping. Commands still go through, they just take longer. Practice more.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

SimeonTregarth wrote: »

animation cancelling, this as a "feature" ... all of the top tier players ...

1) animation cancelling is not a feature, it is an unintended ability that the devs don't know how to fix. although, with this next patch coming on the 22nd if you animation cancel with the resources the way the devs have them now set in the next patch then you will be very quickly out of resources.

2) there is no such thing as "top tier players", we are all just renting space and characters in this MMO, people are allowed to do as they wish with those characters.
at no time should you publicly consider and speak of other players as "Top Tier" as you put it, just because you admire how they play, it is not only insulting and embarrassing to other players, but it is also against the TOS.

How can you say there isn't top tier players? You're not serious right? Does that make NFL players not top tier because people can play American football how they wish and some people play for fun? Does it make Club Soccer (Football) players not top tier because other players do not wish to commit so much time? You're discrediting players who have practiced and actually risen to be some of the better players in the game. There are incredible PvE and PvP players that are top tier. "Top tier" is not an opinion. If someone consistently puts up leader board scores or is constantly crushing people in PvP and in duels then they are probably top tier. You may have a difference of opinion on exactly how good they are but they are "top tier" nonetheless.

See this is the problem right here LOL. It's nowhere near real sport and never will be. The whole world won't bow down before you because you can kill other players in pvp or do more dps in pvp lol. Everyone is so delusional. XD just keyboard warriors and mouse wizards thinking they're on par with top athletes LOL. yet most can't run 50 yards or throw a ball at all. Literally achieving nothing playing this game. If in 10 years ESO dies. What will you have left besides memories? Now what will this top tier NFL player have? How will you look, how much money will you have, how much fame will you have, what will be your personwlity and character? How many partners will you have? Etc. You'll still be the same as u r now. That NFL to tier player will have 1000x more because that's real work and dedication.

Then again I never even understood all the hype and excitement in watching sport and putting individuals above others in the first place. Every team is a team for a reason and no top tier athlete achieved his success and fame by himself. There's usually many people behind his or her success that are never mentioned.

Man I'm SO GLAD I left this elite gaming BS and stopped being a nerd. Now I see how stupid and cringy i must've looked for years.

@DoShazarr , these people would beg to differ:

https://esportsearnings.com/tournaments

"ESPORTS" LOL! just friggin LOL!

Lol indeed but they make more than you ever will and they do it playing games...LOL. I'm not saying players in ESO will ever make that much money but have you ever heard of streaming? Players stream themselves playing live where they gather followers and even subscribers if you're entertaining enough. A lot of them make a living simply recording their gameplay.

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

This game have many aspects that developers should really focus on fixing and improving yet many people want to change something that is one of the things making this game unique and also works totally fine ?

Lets focus on real issues not create fake ones.

A bug works totally fine? Because that is what it is. At this point i don't care one way or another, but let's not act like this was implemented intentionally.

Making this game unique? By cutting out animations? By that same token they could cut out all bosses from the game, it would be unique. Unique /= good. A sandwich made out of *** would be unique, but not good.

How is a bug a fake issue, just because they choose not to fix it or don't know how to doesn't make it any less of a bug.

Those who like to animation cancel and fight new players in cyrodil is the only reason I would like to see it gone. You keep doing that and it will only drive people away from the game.

I understand veteran players should have an advantage over newer players , but at some point that advantage can become to big.

I don't think you get it. It's not an unreachable advantage that only veteran players use. I've taught countless new players how to do the simplest of animation cancelling. IT doesn't take years to learn. If you have a sense of rhythm and a couple of days to practice, you'll master it. There are no other prerequisites. Just because YOU won't take the time to learn something doesn't mean others shouldn't.

Gilvoth · May 2017

we arent in sports, this is just a game for relaxation and enjoyment, there is zero profit to be made and zero to gain in real life from doing well or not doing well in eso.
so my statement remains as sound Truth.

my statement:

1) animation cancelling is not a feature, it is an unintended ability that the devs don't know how to fix. although, with this next patch coming on the 22nd if you animation cancel with the resources the way the devs have them now set in the next patch then you will be very quickly out of resources.

2) there is no such thing as "top tier players", we are all just renting space and characters in this MMO, people are allowed to do as they wish with those characters.
at no time should you publicly consider and speak out about other players as "Top Tier" as you put it, or "Non Top Tier" or "Bad Players" just because you admire or do not admire how they play, it is not only insulting and embarrassing to other players, but it is also against the TOS.

QuebraRegra · May 2017

Coilbox wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

People who are caught animation cancelling should be permanently banned from ESO.

I wont take anything from you seriously after reading something like this...

LOL

As much as I'd like to see it... even I have to agree with you. It was "WROBEL'D" into being an official "feature" of the games combat system, therefore no ban for continuing to exploit the side effect of poor coding called "weaving:.

Macros, and programmable controllers, keyboards, are another issue altogether and do violate TOS.

Shardaxx · May 2017

It's annoying because you can be hit with a flurry of attacks in a few milliseconds and die without having chance to react. I've died in cyrodiil from what I thought was one attack, only to discover on the death recap that the same person actually unleashed a whole chain of attacks, yet the damage seemed to arrive all at once and there's none of the normal attack animations happening.

Mjollo · May 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

we arent in sports, this is just a game for relaxation and enjoyment, there is zero profit to be made and zero to gain in real life from doing well or not doing well in eso.
so my statement remains as sound Truth.

my statement:

1) animation cancelling is not a feature, it is an unintended ability that the devs don't know how to fix. although, with this next patch coming on the 22nd if you animation cancel with the resources the way the devs have them now set in the next patch then you will be very quickly out of resources.

2) there is no such thing as "top tier players", we are all just renting space and characters in this MMO, people are allowed to do as they wish with those characters.
at no time should you publicly consider and speak out about other players as "Top Tier" as you put it, or "Non Top Tier" or "Bad Players" just because you admire or do not admire how they play, it is not only insulting and embarrassing to other players, but it is also against the TOS.

Where in the TOS anywhere does it say it is against our free will to classify players based on our personal opinions? If so, Why did ZOS invite specific players to join them at their HQ in maryland in order to provide proper feedback and opinions based on their gameplay? also try going to twitch.com sometime. you'll see how many people make a profit playing eso.

Dorrino · May 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

1) animation cancelling is not a feature, it is an unintended ability that the devs don't know how to fix. although, with this next patch coming on the 22nd if you animation cancel with the resources the way the devs have them now set in the next patch then you will be very quickly out of resources.

This is incorrect though:)

Animation cancel is a fully intended feature, because you don't 'cancel' the animation itself. There's nothing in the animation to prevent any other animation from playing.

Under the hood of the game's engine we have 2 separate entities:

1. Animations, that start playing on some condition (say, an ability is used).
2. Cooldowns - behind the scene mechanics that prevents other abilities to fire for some time.

Cooldowns are generally independent from animation duration. The game does not check whether the animation is complete to allow or disallow another ability from firing. Instead the game starts the same internal cooldown (of 1 sec) after any ability has fired.

If the animation of a particular ability happens to be longer than 1 sec - the game doesn't care about it and will still allow the next ability to fire.

What we tend to call 'animation canceling' is that instead of having a single unified cooldown for all la/ha/abilities/dodges etc the game has a set of independent cooldowns for different ability category:

1. LA/HA cooldown. Prevents other LA/HA to fire for 1sec. Does not prevent other abilities and blocks/dodges/bashes.
2. Abilities cooldown. Prevents other abilities and LA/HA to fire for 1 sec. Does not prevent blocks/dodges/bashes.
3. Bash cooldown. Prevents LA/HA, abilities and other bashes to fire for 0.5sec. Does not prevent blocks and dodges.
4. Dodge cooldown. Prevents anything to fire for 1 sec.
5. Weapon swap cooldown. Prevents anything to fire for 0.5 sec.

There might be a couple of others minor cooldowns as well.

All of these cooldowns have no idea about the animations going. As far as the cooldowns are concerned there might not be any animations at all. The cooldowns will still be there.

Therefore you don't "cancel the animation", you play around the whole set of cooldowns outlined above, that are totally independent from animations.

Now you see that these cooldowns were put in the game intentionally to make the combat system what it is right now. There's no bug and no oversight here. The game works exactly as it was designed to work.

DarkAedin · May 2017

DoShazarr wrote: »

So I constantly see people complaining about this and making suggestions for a solution to this, and once such a thread is created people instantly start to attack the OP.

My question is why. Why in the hell would removal of this would be such a huge problem if there was fine tuning around this. Noone ever really explains that yet everyone keeps defending it.

Don't get me wrong, I know how to cancel animations, swap cancel, roll cancel, bash cancel and block cast. I just don't understand what's the big deal?

How would it hurt the game? How would it effect anything if there were buffs to keep the DPS in line.

I personally couldn't care less if the game would change this or not. But there's a lot of people who can't simply because of disabilities or other real life issues. It's very naive and stupid to think people just don't want to learn.

You're not some chosen gifted gods if you can anim cancel you know. (I'm speaking to those who act like this, not everyone)

Edit: phone typos.
Edit 2: not to mention this could help solve many PvE problems with mechanics as some people might have problems focusing.
Edit 3: Just an idea before somebody asks what would be the point of light and heavy attacks. Add a very short GCD and perhaps make both light and heavy attacks restore a portion of stamina, while reducing the passive regeneration to stay in line with "less sustain"? Again I'm asking how would this be a bad change if there was fine tuning of numbers involved?

TL;DR - don't understand the point of hostility towards people wanting this removed.

Simply put: many of us gamers have been animations cancelling since the days of arcades. Go youtube street fighter. Animation cancelling is an integral part of its combat system.
Im 34. Ive been playing video games since i was a kid and the games that have some type of animation cancelling has been around for as long as i have if not longer.
Animation cancelling is a simple way of explaining a concept that devs use to create a priority system in thier combat- for eso they want us to be able to stop the action we are currently doing to be able to dodge or block.
for players this adds a degree of depth to the game and gives us an option to master the games combat rather then just smashing buttons.

So that being said, a direct answer to ur questions is a rather simple one;
Since i look for games with a fast paces, high skilled combat, any change to this as u are suggesting would slow combat down enough that there would be no reason for me to play eso anymore. Im dealing with a truely broken game as it is, but it also boasts the best combat system out there, for me. If it slowed down any more i may as well play wow or swtor. Bc outside of combat, this game has literally nothing over other mmos.
Honestly. Anyone who has an issue with animation cancelling in games doesnt make sense to me, its something to aspire to and make urself better by learning to time things out instead of smashing keys.
I mean.. its been around for decades in the video game world. Fighting it now..... it makes me personally quite agitated.. i dare say this is an l2p issue.

FearlessOne_2014 · May 2017

Sabbathius wrote: »

Fairly simple - people who learned to use it would hate to lose it. And people who macro it would hate to lose it too, because then they would be like every other non-macroing player who never learned how to do it well. In both cases, it's a serious advantage over an average player, and people hate to lose that. Hence the resistance. It doesn't help that ZOS doesn't know how to fix this, and (years ago?) said that they kinda like it, which gave it legitimacy.

And yes, I know how to do it too. Though manually (without macros) it doesn't always work well because latency for me in Cyrodiil jumps routinely in 400-600ms range, where I consider anything over 300ms no longer competitive. I just really dislike how it looks, all the jerking and animations cut short make it look like a $5 game made in someone's basement. People who cry "but skill!" really should realize there's plenty of room for skill in tactics and builds and strategy, not just pounding the keys like a demented howler monkey.

Personally I feel animation canceling does the game a great disservice. It really discourages new players from PvPing when they get dropped like a sack of manure by a macroer, or an outright hacker, with attacks they never even saw because they were animation-canceled within 100ms of being initiated. And as mentioned visually instead of graceful flow of attacks like in Witcher 3, like a dance, you end up watching a character having a seizure and screaming incoherently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvL0WzCf-3E&index=10&list=PLceBA01aWZUsBo2vYBdzABmm8Ikg8JiTZ

Just be quite and do what the most resistant players are doing. That program there is awesome btw. You don't even have to press a button. Oh and you can also hook up AIs with personalities to it as well. Have fun giving what you have been receiving for a while now.

Oh it's completely legal accordingly to the current TOS and EULA. As long as you are only doing one key press per order.