CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

gethemshauna wrote: »

I could write here a looong post, and respond about your every question. But I won't do it, for currect state, I got SIMPLE question for you.

What the hell is diffucult in putting light attacks between skills?

Lag. If it's a good day my ping is only 300.

So you won't be effective as player with decent ping anyway. If you are looking for a game where you are smashing 1-5 buttons, go play wow.

I'd like it fix because I think it represents poor design. Cancelling the animation should cancel the ability called on. I hate when my character looks like he's having a seizure. And if someone at ZOS kinda likes it then what? You designed a piece of software and had no idea how it works? Is this the company that hires all the people from the schools where everyone gets a reward?

I think animation cancelling is fine (even with all you macroed out cheats).

What I don't think is fine is how some animations can be made invisible, only some.

I don't think ultimate abilities should be invisible.

Lastly, many bugs and exploits are built around stupid bar swap animation cancels... I'm all for responsive and quick bar swapping, but it gets abused more than anything else I know of.

I made it through the first page, so apologies if someone already said this...

My question is why. Why in the hell would removal of this would be such a huge problem if there was fine tuning around this. Noone ever really explains that yet everyone keeps defending it.

Zenimax would have to rework the entire combat system. Everything from item sets to the Global Cooldown would need to be reworked and rebalanced.
Animation priority would be abolished-- this would remove fluidity and control from combat: you would be unable to cancel a Radiant Destruction or healing spell to block or dodge, for example.
The game would become extremely slow paced. As it is, it's possible to perform 3 actions per GCD, so about 3 actions per second. A removal of animation cancelling would drop that to 1 action per second, making the semi-fast paced and responsive combat system we currently have feel incredibly slow and IMO, boring.

TL;DR, it would be an incredibly massive amount of work for Zenimax to remove AC-- it's tied to almost everything in game, to remove a mechanic that the majority of the community quite enjoys. Not worth.

My issue with animation cancelling is macros that do it for the player. That's cheating, plain and simple, but there is no way to stop it because technically a player could be able to perform a flawless animation cancel every-single-effin-time, with millisecond-precise timing 24/7, regardless of pressure/tired/distracted/etc/etc (it's just not very likely).

I'm just getting to grips with animation cancelling and only really feel the need to use it for c.frags, but coming from a long line of games where animation cancelling was NOT possible this is a refreshing difference, intended or not.

I always play mage types and being in the middle of some complicated spell, you are usually waving your hands gracefully in the air, maybe even a little swaying from foot to foot, maybe even with face turned towards the heavens - and then you see the enemy about to hurl something at you that will wipe the grace right out of your wave but you just.cant.stop.the.stupid.dance.

It just makes sense!

I can answer this.

In the result of complete removal of animation canceling, or, in other words, of putting all light attacks, heavy attacks, skills, dodges, bashes and blocks on the same global cooldown of 1 sec we will have the following consequences:

1. You won't be able to use dodges and blocks to react to the danger if you used a skill <=1 second before. This will reduce reactiveness of the combat quite severely.

2. Partial case of 1. You won't be able to block cast which will require to rebalance all vet-to-trial pve content in the game, since tanks won't be able to survive.

3. Interrupting bosses/players using bashes will be considerably harder because bashes will be on 1 sec cooldown after using a skill.

4. Light attacks become only the source of ult regen buff and will be used only for that purpose once per 8 sec.

5. Heavy attacks become only the source of resource replenishment and will be used only when resources are needed.

6. Gear sets and player abilities that require using light/heavy attacks will require a complete rebalance as well.

7. 1., 3., 4. and 5. combined will lead to a much slower gameplay since we basically give up the whole idea of 'swinging your weapons'. So, most likely, the combat system will need to be totally overhauled to get rid of light/heavy attacks, reactive blocks, dodges and bashes alltogether since all of them will lose their purpose. We will probably have a wow-like cooldown system in its place.

Summary: making this change will destroy the whole combat system in eso as we know it and will turn it into a generic 'use one skill per second' type of system we have in WoW, Rift, Lotro, Gw2 etc, etc, etc.

Hope this answers your question:)

Sabbathius wrote: »

Fairly simple - people who learned to use it would hate to lose it. And people who macro it would hate to lose it too, because then they would be like every other non-macroing player who never learned how to do it well. In both cases, it's a serious advantage over an average player, and people hate to lose that. Hence the resistance. It doesn't help that ZOS doesn't know how to fix this, and (years ago?) said that they kinda like it, which gave it legitimacy.

And yes, I know how to do it too. Though manually (without macros) it doesn't always work well because latency for me in Cyrodiil jumps routinely in 400-600ms range, where I consider anything over 300ms no longer competitive. I just really dislike how it looks, all the jerking and animations cut short make it look like a $5 game made in someone's basement. People who cry "but skill!" really should realize there's plenty of room for skill in tactics and builds and strategy, not just pounding the keys like a demented howler monkey.

Personally I feel animation canceling does the game a great disservice. It really discourages new players from PvPing when they get dropped like a sack of manure by a macroer, or an outright hacker, with attacks they never even saw because they were animation-canceled within 100ms of being initiated. And as mentioned visually instead of graceful flow of attacks like in Witcher 3, like a dance, you end up watching a character having a seizure and screaming incoherently.

You talk about animation canceling being an advantage over average players?

It must suck to be good in PC, people like this guy calling you cheater because they got macrosliced

Sabbathius wrote: »

Fairly simple - people who learned to use it would hate to lose it. And people who macro it would hate to lose it too, because then they would be like every other non-macroing player who never learned how to do it well. In both cases, it's a serious advantage over an average player, and people hate to lose that. Hence the resistance. It doesn't help that ZOS doesn't know how to fix this, and (years ago?) said that they kinda like it, which gave it legitimacy.

And yes, I know how to do it too. Though manually (without macros) it doesn't always work well because latency for me in Cyrodiil jumps routinely in 400-600ms range, where I consider anything over 300ms no longer competitive. I just really dislike how it looks, all the jerking and animations cut short make it look like a $5 game made in someone's basement. People who cry "but skill!" really should realize there's plenty of room for skill in tactics and builds and strategy, not just pounding the keys like a demented howler monkey.

Personally I feel animation canceling does the game a great disservice. It really discourages new players from PvPing when they get dropped like a sack of manure by a macroer, or an outright hacker, with attacks they never even saw because they were animation-canceled within 100ms of being initiated. And as mentioned visually instead of graceful flow of attacks like in Witcher 3, like a dance, you end up watching a character having a seizure and screaming incoherently.

In other words people who hate to actually learn how to play the game properly.

I have no problem with a cancelled animation/move. But it should do that, cancel your attack and allow you to block or roll out of the way. So increase the amount of time that the animation must show in order to successfully perform a move.

Dorrino wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

1. You won't be able to use dodges and blocks to react to the danger if you used a skill <=1 second before. This will reduce reactiveness of the combat quite severely.

It would reduce the reactiveness, but not necessarily make the combat worse. There are excellent combat systems out there that make you committed to an attack without being able to cancel it with a defensive action at any time (Dark souls for example)

Setting aside that genres are different and combat systems are utilized differently, aren't you able to dodge at any time is DS series as long as you have enough stamina and not cc-ed?

Once you swing a sword, you are locked into the animation. For how long depends on the weapon you are using and the skill you are performing, but dodge never gets absolute priority like in ESO.

As for combat system being different... <shrug> both are over-the-shoulder 3rd person melee simulators. I think if you directly transplanted the DS combat into ESO the game would work just fine. Possibly a bit more difficult

OK
short answer: more DPS
That is why we animation cancel.

This video should help

Magdalina wrote: »

I don't understand what the big deal is either. It's part of the game it's core of the combat, it makes perfect sense. Only stuff that has some merit is the few skills you can ani cancel into them having no animation whatsoever, I agree that doesn't quite seem right and perhaps a smooth animation transform should be added instead where one animation quickly but visibly blends into another.

Most of the skills are never perfectly instant even when ani cancelled and nothing you do (short of bar swapping which has a cooldown of its own) can bypass the global cooldown anyway. I really don't understand why people are making this out to be so big, let alone calling it cheats and whatnot. I have a huge issue imagining it being different, possibly because ESO my first MMO. When I try to imagine it it seems like it'd be extremely slow, unresponsive and boring. They'd also have to adjust a lot of the mechanics to allow for surviving while you do all the slow animations and are unable to react properly. I really like ESO combat actually, I wouldn't want it to change (aside from balance and bugs fixing obviously). If you really don't like it so much, why play ESO at all?

That begs the question, why play any game ever at all?

It would slow the combat down so much without it.

Imagine your use a dizzying and mid way you realise a frag it coming at you?

Without animation cancelling you'd just stand there and take it, you wouldn't be able to react.

Because blocking or dodging in that situation would be considered animation cancelling, removing that would remove people's ability to react in combat.

Sounds like very boring combat to me.