Its that time again!

Alexandrious · May 2017

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

StackonClown · May 2017

Er... No

I learnt how to do it mainly using block cancel.. but sometimes couldn't be bothered using it..
Use or ignore ?

Lieblingsjunge · May 2017

Animation cancelling is still possible.

ArchMikem · May 2017

It's time, to DO, DO-DO DO, DO-DO-DO-DO-DUEL!

LadyLavina · May 2017

Alexandrious wrote: »

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

@Alexandrious

uh, no it's not that time again.

Animation cancelling is here to stay. Quality bait though.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2017

Alexandrious wrote: »

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

Actually ... with the changes to regen if you want to go with an animation cancelling based rotation you may very well run out of resources much faster than before. Meanwhile heavy attacks are set to award way more resource regen than in the past.

So, while it's still in the game it's being marginalized and the opposite game style is being rewarded. It'll never be out of the game but they have very likely found a happy medium starting on June 6th.

Cpt_Teemo · May 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

It's time, to DO, DO-DO DO, DO-DO-DO-DO-DUEL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxYHSeThVKM

Rohamad_Ali · May 2017

I think Nick Konkle fully intended for animation canceling and fast paced combat . I don't think it was an accident , I just think they were unaware how much could be canceled at launch . So they embraced it and tried to prioritize some of the animations . No one from ZoS has made any mention of it that I'm aware of .

starkerealm · May 2017

Honestly, I still think the changes to recovery are primarily intended to punish cancelers. "So, yeah, you can cancel, but you'll be out of resources in no time flat."

Alexandrious · May 2017

LadyLavina wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

@Alexandrious

uh, no it's not that time again.

Animation cancelling is here to stay. Quality bait though.

It is that time again! Cuz I ask this question every year for my fiance. Got the answer I need thanks!

Crafts_Many_Boxes · May 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

Actually ... with the changes to regen if you want to go with an animation cancelling based rotation you may very well run out of resources much faster than before. Meanwhile heavy attacks are set to award way more resource regen than in the past.

So, while it's still in the game it's being marginalized and the opposite game style is being rewarded. It'll never be out of the game but they have very likely found a happy medium starting on June 6th.

But how would that work exactly? My understanding that animation cancelling essentially allowed you to do 1 light attack and one ability in the same 1s window every gcd. It was also my understanding that light attacks don't actually consume stam/mag, so in theory animation cancelling would be almost as effective, you just can't pull it off while you're regenning with heavy attacks. Am I mistaken?

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

Actually ... with the changes to regen if you want to go with an animation cancelling based rotation you may very well run out of resources much faster than before. Meanwhile heavy attacks are set to award way more resource regen than in the past.

So, while it's still in the game it's being marginalized and the opposite game style is being rewarded. It'll never be out of the game but they have very likely found a happy medium starting on June 6th.

But how would that work exactly? My understanding that animation cancelling essentially allowed you to do 1 light attack and one ability in the same 1s window every gcd. It was also my understanding that light attacks don't actually consume stam/mag, so in theory animation cancelling would be almost as effective, you just can't pull it off while you're regenning with heavy attacks. Am I mistaken?

You are right that the light and heavy attacks do not take resources, but slightly off in your understanding. I'll use big round numbers to illustrate how.

Player X is an animation canceller with 35k stamina and 2000 stamina recovery. He is one of those amazing players who can somehow AC 5 attacks at once. His normal rotation of skill, LA, skill, LA, skill normally costs 10k stamina. He goes through it and target 1 dies.

Now, that person could easily shift priorities to a second target. After patch, when this person's stamina recovery gets nerfed to, say 1200, that person will have to re-evaluate if they should move onto target 2 or wait to recover stam. This will effect PVPers and PVErs in similar ways because the damage dealer will have to consider how fast their skills are burning through stamina versus how much less they are recovering.

Meanwhile, currently on my Magplar I get 4 to 6k back on a heavy attack. Maybe that jumps to 8 or 10k. I have no idea really, but ZOS has said they will be raising it. Due to this a heavy attacking player will sustain much longer into a fight than an animation canceller.

In a nutshell think of ACers as sprinters. Even the best ones will not be able to sprint for miles like now without breaking for a heavy attack.

ACing is not going away. It is, however, due to new mechanics not something that you'll be able to base your entire strategy around.

Please note that I have no ill will vs ACers. I know how to do it and have done it. I personally enjoy heavy attacking more to actively recover resources. These new changes help my style immensely.

MasterSpatula · May 2017

I can never hear the words "It's that time again" without thinking of the Chick Tract "Doom Town."

Crafts_Many_Boxes · May 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

Actually ... with the changes to regen if you want to go with an animation cancelling based rotation you may very well run out of resources much faster than before. Meanwhile heavy attacks are set to award way more resource regen than in the past.

So, while it's still in the game it's being marginalized and the opposite game style is being rewarded. It'll never be out of the game but they have very likely found a happy medium starting on June 6th.

But how would that work exactly? My understanding that animation cancelling essentially allowed you to do 1 light attack and one ability in the same 1s window every gcd. It was also my understanding that light attacks don't actually consume stam/mag, so in theory animation cancelling would be almost as effective, you just can't pull it off while you're regenning with heavy attacks. Am I mistaken?

You are right that the light and heavy attacks do not take resources, but slightly off in your understanding. I'll use big round numbers to illustrate how.

Player X is an animation canceller with 35k stamina and 2000 stamina recovery. He is one of those amazing players who can somehow AC 5 attacks at once. His normal rotation of skill, LA, skill, LA, skill normally costs 10k stamina. He goes through it and target 1 dies.

Now, that person could easily shift priorities to a second target. After patch, when this person's stamina recovery gets nerfed to, say 1200, that person will have to re-evaluate if they should move onto target 2 or wait to recover stam. This will effect PVPers and PVErs in similar ways because the damage dealer will have to consider how fast their skills are burning through stamina versus how much less they are recovering.

Meanwhile, currently on my Magplar I get 4 to 6k back on a heavy attack. Maybe that jumps to 8 or 10k. I have no idea really, but ZOS has said they will be raising it. Due to this a heavy attacking player will sustain much longer into a fight than an animation canceller.

In a nutshell think of ACers as sprinters. Even the best ones will not be able to sprint for miles like now without breaking for a heavy attack.

ACing is not going away. It is, however, due to new mechanics not something that you'll be able to base your entire strategy around.

Please note that I have no ill will vs ACers. I know how to do it and have done it. I personally enjoy heavy attacking more to actively recover resources. These new changes help my style immensely.

I'm still not getting quite where you're coming from. Based on that last analogy, the only time you would be not light attacking / animation cancelling would be DURING the heavy attack periods, correct? Other players on the forums estimate that you will be heavy attacking once per every 6 or so abilities. So, assuming you're good with your gcd / cancelling and use 1 abil and 1 light attack per second and do a ~2s heavy attack, won't you still be animation cancelling for ~75% of the fight? Which means cancelling only got nerfed by 25%, and only if you were never ever heavy attacking before?

I hope I'm wrong. As boring as frequent heavy attacks are and generally against these changes I am, it's still preferable to spazzing all over my buttons to animation cancel.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

So, has animation cancelling been nerfed at all yet in any way since last year? You know, that unintended mechanic that devs fully didnt intend to happen, and tried to remove it completely but couldnt due to how the combat system works all those years ago? So, whats the dealio eh? Would love to know. :P

Actually ... with the changes to regen if you want to go with an animation cancelling based rotation you may very well run out of resources much faster than before. Meanwhile heavy attacks are set to award way more resource regen than in the past.

So, while it's still in the game it's being marginalized and the opposite game style is being rewarded. It'll never be out of the game but they have very likely found a happy medium starting on June 6th.

But how would that work exactly? My understanding that animation cancelling essentially allowed you to do 1 light attack and one ability in the same 1s window every gcd. It was also my understanding that light attacks don't actually consume stam/mag, so in theory animation cancelling would be almost as effective, you just can't pull it off while you're regenning with heavy attacks. Am I mistaken?

You are right that the light and heavy attacks do not take resources, but slightly off in your understanding. I'll use big round numbers to illustrate how.

Player X is an animation canceller with 35k stamina and 2000 stamina recovery. He is one of those amazing players who can somehow AC 5 attacks at once. His normal rotation of skill, LA, skill, LA, skill normally costs 10k stamina. He goes through it and target 1 dies.

Now, that person could easily shift priorities to a second target. After patch, when this person's stamina recovery gets nerfed to, say 1200, that person will have to re-evaluate if they should move onto target 2 or wait to recover stam. This will effect PVPers and PVErs in similar ways because the damage dealer will have to consider how fast their skills are burning through stamina versus how much less they are recovering.

Meanwhile, currently on my Magplar I get 4 to 6k back on a heavy attack. Maybe that jumps to 8 or 10k. I have no idea really, but ZOS has said they will be raising it. Due to this a heavy attacking player will sustain much longer into a fight than an animation canceller.

In a nutshell think of ACers as sprinters. Even the best ones will not be able to sprint for miles like now without breaking for a heavy attack.

ACing is not going away. It is, however, due to new mechanics not something that you'll be able to base your entire strategy around.

Please note that I have no ill will vs ACers. I know how to do it and have done it. I personally enjoy heavy attacking more to actively recover resources. These new changes help my style immensely.

I'm still not getting quite where you're coming from. Based on that last analogy, the only time you would be not light attacking / animation cancelling would be DURING the heavy attack periods, correct? Other players on the forums estimate that you will be heavy attacking once per every 6 or so abilities. So, assuming you're good with your gcd / cancelling and use 1 abil and 1 light attack per second and do a ~2s heavy attack, won't you still be animation cancelling for ~75% of the fight? Which means cancelling only got nerfed by 25%, and only if you were never ever heavy attacking before?

I hope I'm wrong. As boring as frequent heavy attacks are and generally against these changes I am, it's still preferable to spazzing all over my buttons to animation cancel.

Honestly, your interpretation might be correct. I do not know exactly how much of nerf it got, only that it did get a nerf. For all we know 25% might be enough, and maybe that 25% is a "mathematically perfect" rotation that only 0.01% of players can pull off.

ACing is still very much going to be a thing but it probably will not be THE THING in the future. We'll see.