does a magsorc really play with all 3 shields??

Trashs1 · May 2017

helly my fellow mag sorcs.

my question reffers to shield using in terms of the future environment of morrowind.

are u guys really using all 3 shields? i currently manage to keep up 2 shields with bar swap any cancel pretty fine. only the 3rd shield dont really fits in my rotation....

if you want to play on a high lvl in light armour, does u really need the 3rd shield?

if not whats the better one dumpen magic (5-6 light armour pices) or healing ward?
if yes, how can i shorten the animation without the posibility of bar swaping again?#

thx

Beardimus · May 2017

I'm sure more pro players than me will respond, but in short asking what's better between Harness and Healing is confusing. Better at what?

Healing is better at healing, and better as a panic press if you have taken damage. Harness is a stronger ward if full health, and gives Magika back. So its not apples for apples

Some words run 2 wards yes. Often hardened and healing. 2 wards - As can any Magika class (hence forum hate on magsorc wards is dumb) others pop all 3.

Also depends if you are dying alot. If so maybe you need all 3. So lots of variable in context

Aedaryl · May 2017

Classical sorcs play with 3 shields, but healing ward is only use when you lost HP.

GrigorijMalahevich · May 2017

It depends on your play style. If you have high magicka and low sustain and focus on burst then 3 shields will be beneficial as it is easier to time your burst and harness magicka provides nice sustain against magicka characters.

If you play with familiar then you don't really need 3 shields as you can put pressure non-stop and time your burst with familiar last pulse.

When you are outnumbered having two shields sucks as they became less effective the more opponents you fight.

Obviously you want healing ward more than dampen or harness, as if you have only 2 shields - you need a heal, so healing ward is a must (dark deal is not a reliable source of healing and pet heals require 2 slots). You don't use healing ward only if you have a pet heal.

Cancel animation with light attacks if you have 2 shield on same bar.

Trashs1 · May 2017

hmm i have to test la any cancel

thx for response

it also means i have to continue the farm for a lich healing staff... its so disapointing i did 52 runs and no drop.

the light and fire ones i have since ages

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

if not whats the better one dumpen magic (5-6 light armour pices) or healing ward?
if yes, how can i shorten the animation without the posibility of bar swaping again?#

For what purpose?

Hardened is for shielding. Healing is for healing. Harness is shielding + magicka return (only when fighting other mages).

Unless you're staggering them, one shield will usually do the trick - you only get 6 seconds worth out of them in any scenario, and if someone's burning through them in < 6 seconds, the second shield may not do much for you.

Equally, you're going to spend most of your time simply maintaining shields, not counterattacking.

Hardened > Harness if you're fighting melee. Harness > Hardened (because of the return) when fighting mages.

Healing is usually shield #2, more for the heals than the shield.

As @Beardimus indicated, they each have their purpose. More detail is required.

Trashs1 · May 2017

well. i wana do bgs and cryodil on this sorc.

i planed to run one of this combos:

amberplasm+1 monster(with magica) + 5 spinners or 5 julianos or 5 nekropotence (with a pet )

amberplasm+2 monster(infernal guardian valkyn skoria slime claw)+ 4 nekropotence

lich front bar+ seducer backbar (restro) and a dmg 2 piece monster set (infernal guardian or slime claw valkyn skoria)

5* nekropotence (with a pet or engine guardian)/julianos/spinners front+ 2 pice monster set defensively or infernal guardian+ lich restro 5 piece back bar

can anyone tell me which combo is also the best one?^^

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

well. i wana do bgs and cryodil on this sorc.

i planed to run one of this combos:

amberplasm+1 monster(with magica) + 5 spinners or 5 julianos or 5 nekropotence (with a pet)

amberplasm+2 monster(infernal guardian valkyn skoria slime claw)+ 4 nekropotence

lich front bar+ seducer backbar (restro) and a dmg 2 piece monster set (infernal guardian or slime claw valkyn skoria)

nekropotence/julianos/spinners front+ 2 pice monster set defensively or infernal guardian+ lich restro 5 piece back bar

can anyone tell me which combo is also the best one?^^

I'd reverse these, if you're going to attempt this build. That way you get most benefit from Seducer on your main bar, as it takes only a weapon swap to get lich to proc. The regen remains even after you return to the other bar.

Of course, this is dependent on having the restro lich staff.

Amberplasm and lich are both great for sustain. Necro may or may not be valid depending on the upcoming nerf (pet-wise, anyway). Julianos, Scathing Mage, and possibly still BSW still have potential. Seducer is still quite solid for reduced cost, too.

I doubt anyone's going to stand still long enough to get hit by IG. A lot of it will come down to your personal playstyle and where you need assistance (regen, damage, survivability...) If you have the sets available, try them out and see which one works best.

Trashs1 · May 2017

well i still dont have all the parts together since some of them never drops (lich restro) or cost about 300k gold (nekropotence sharpened inferno/light or same for spinners)

for this reason i ask also which route i should go

for slich+seducer, i saw a verry interesting video in yt of legendary gaming using lich front and seducer back for the reason of cuting costs of the expensive shields

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

for slich+seducer, i saw a verry interesting video in yt of legendary gaming using lich front and seducer back for the reason of cuting costs of the expensive shields

Interesting. Hadn't considered that.

Then again, I'm not necessarily a fan of not having a shield available on the main bar - if weapon swap lags out on you, it can be death. If you can perfectly time it, there is potential the other way.

ideally, you can have it both ways (again, will require the gear). You'll have to compare the cost per second of your shielding to the cost per second of your damaging abilities to see where seducer would benefit you most.

You can do this simply by making a 2nd seducer staff - one for DPS, one for heals, and do a basic parse.

If you're not interested in selling a virtual kidney, build around what you do have at this point. Drop set is obviously going to take up your jewelry slots. From there you can grab the remaining two pieces of the set and then craft around the remaining slots.

Again, Seducer is great for the cost reduction. Julianos is still very solid for DPS. Both are relatively inexpensive to make and you can make a full 5 pc of each so you can fill in any spot based on the future drops you get.

You can leave them purple until you've decided.

So, best advice I can give is "Use what you have (dropped sets)." If it doesn't work to your liking, you can always farm more.

I got lucky with lich restro early on, in a semi-decent trait.

(I'd hold off on paying 250k for necro anything until we know if they're going to nerf the set and to what extent.)

Lord-Otto · May 2017

You use two shields to protect you third, Healing Ward. You also stack them against burst builds, one shield is not enough. And when you 1vX, you use LoS to stack. Lastly Harness vs Magicka.

Trashs1 · May 2017

i have to mention legendary gaming also used hardened on front bar.

seducer restro was kind of dumpen/harness magic, healing ward, crit surge, curse, and .. now it comes.. streak

he told he is actually streaking alot and this kind of setup was rly good for him to do this

also thx for your responce @Lord-Otto

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

You want Seducer active where your costs (frequent casts) will be highest, and those are all expensive skills, so that makes sense.

If you have Lich for the front bar, go for it - the difference is not vast, and when you come across a lich restro, it's a very simple process to make a second Seducer staff.

Good luck and let us know how you fare!

Trashs1 · May 2017

well im afraid of having really good sustain with seducer and lich but not doing any dmg... maybe slime claw or molag kena could be a rounding here..

not sure how much is 8% more dmg in a real bg/cryo in comparation to nekro or spinners

Biro123 · May 2017

I look at it as being 2 shields and a heal (which just happens to have a shield attached to it)

Or if you swap healing ward for pet-heal - still 2 shields and a heal.

So basically, only use the heal if you need healing.

For the shields, In combat I only keep one up at a time - but refresh after about 4-5 seconds with the other shield - so they are only stacked for a second or two, giving a bit of a cushion against getting cc'd just as the first shield ends.
Or if under severe pressure (ie shield is dropping in less than 2 gcd's, then I'll stack them both to give me just enough time to use an attack - or streak etc.. while they are both being taken down.
Or if about to run through a ton of AOE etc, I'll stack both.

But most of the time - only one shield is up at a time.

GrigorijMalahevich · May 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

well i still dont have all the parts together since some of them never drops (lich restro) or cost about 300k gold (nekropotence sharpened inferno/light or same for spinners)

for this reason i ask also which route i should go

for slich+seducer, i saw a verry interesting video in yt of legendary gaming using lich front and seducer back for the reason of cuting costs of the expensive shields

Go to public dungeon in Rivenspire and in 3-4 hours you should get your necro inferno sharp staff.

All builds are ok. With Morrowind seducer or lich is probably a must for any light armor character in PvP.

I prefer necro+lich+infernal guardian - and someone commented that IG is not good for damage - it does much more than damage, it forces your opponent to pay attention to those red circles and opponent may lose focus on what he is doing, it also can show you the direction where someone is (it saved my ass hundreds of times when you are fighting one or two opponents and IG starts shooting in a different direction and you know that you are getting outnumbered very quick) it has more of a strategic purpose, than actual damage. (just imho)

If sorc had a class heal - I would play 5 necro body front bar, lich jewellery + lich s&b back bar, vma inferno sharp front bar + monster set = that would be awesome, but nope, you have to sacrifice 2 extra slots for healing pet or have only one healing pet...

Minalan · May 2017

Do we use three shields? Not usually all three, unless you're a potato Sorc. You cast what you need to survive and nothing more.

With the sustain and cost changes next week, a full three shield stack is going to cost you something ridiculous like 10-12K Magicka. You won't be able to keep dumb-spamming it, healing ward costs about 5K alone.

A good sorc will stack max Magicka and lean on hardened ward for most incoming damage (50K max Magicka will give you a 15K shield) in between weaving heavy attacks for sustain.

Under pressure you might have to potion up and cast a second shield, and a good sorc will know that the first shield cast is the one taking damage. There's no point in refreshing the second shield again if they haven't burst through the first in the six second window. There's no point in casting a second shield at all unless you have multiple enemies beating on you, and even then you should be close to some form of LOS.

Even good Sorcs take health damage, but the really good ones will know when to use healing ward versus letting entropy/surge/blood magic heals do the job. Also with all of the oblivion damage flying around in battlegrounds, good Sorcs know that mutagen is usually a better choice than healing ward.

In short Sorcs will have to 'git gud', play smart, and it's going to be hilarious farming OOM baddie shield stackers. Good luck out there, I'm sure you'll do fine.

Trashs1 · May 2017

mutagen sounds nice yes

Minalan · May 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

mutagen sounds nice yes

It's because of Knight Slayer set and oblivion enchants. Battleground Premades are tossing out 5-8K per player of unavoidable damage (goes through shield and block) every few seconds. Healing ward is useless there.

Hutch679 · May 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

mutagen sounds nice yes

It's because of Knight Slayer set and oblivion enchants. Battleground Premades are tossing out 5-8K per player of unavoidable damage (goes through shield and block) every few seconds. Healing ward is useless there.

What's the oblivion enchant? Are you referring to the enchant that does daedric damage?

Minalan · May 2017

Hutch679 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

mutagen sounds nice yes

It's because of Knight Slayer set and oblivion enchants. Battleground Premades are tossing out 5-8K per player of unavoidable damage (goes through shield and block) every few seconds. Healing ward is useless there.

What's the oblivion enchant? Are you referring to the enchant that does daedric damage?

Correct. Unavoidable damage.

Hutch679 · May 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

mutagen sounds nice yes

It's because of Knight Slayer set and oblivion enchants. Battleground Premades are tossing out 5-8K per player of unavoidable damage (goes through shield and block) every few seconds. Healing ward is useless there.

What's the oblivion enchant? Are you referring to the enchant that does daedric damage?

Correct. Unavoidable damage.

I like it. I think I'll switch to that. You're my go to sorc guy lol seen a TON of your posts. Always good info tbh.

Minalan · May 2017

Hutch679 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

mutagen sounds nice yes

It's because of Knight Slayer set and oblivion enchants. Battleground Premades are tossing out 5-8K per player of unavoidable damage (goes through shield and block) every few seconds. Healing ward is useless there.

What's the oblivion enchant? Are you referring to the enchant that does daedric damage?

Correct. Unavoidable damage.

I like it. I think I'll switch to that. You're my go to sorc guy lol seen a TON of your posts. Always good info tbh.

My point was the people using that are coupling it with Knight Slayer set. Knight slayer will do 2.5K or so itself, the enchant is worth 1.9K, but with an infused staff and torug's pact set you can push that higher on a heavy attack.

If you're not using an oblivion damage build, I'd stick with a poison or a spell damage enchant.

Hutch679 · May 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

mutagen sounds nice yes

It's because of Knight Slayer set and oblivion enchants. Battleground Premades are tossing out 5-8K per player of unavoidable damage (goes through shield and block) every few seconds. Healing ward is useless there.

What's the oblivion enchant? Are you referring to the enchant that does daedric damage?

Correct. Unavoidable damage.

I like it. I think I'll switch to that. You're my go to sorc guy lol seen a TON of your posts. Always good info tbh.

My point was the people using that are coupling it with Knight Slayer set. Knight slayer will do 2.5K or so itself, the enchant is worth 1.9K, but with an infused staff and torug's pact set you can push that higher on a heavy attack.

If you're not using an oblivion damage build, I'd stick with a poison or a spell damage enchant.

Oh I got you. I use poisons on my rest staff. Figured an additional 1900 damage might be useful as burst rather than 5 secs of increased spell damage. A lot of that 5 secs might get used up with wards and buffing up during a fight. The 1900 additional damage could be a good addition to the end of a burst combo

DHale · May 2017

Having two shields for four seconds is not worth it. I do not slot harness and healing ward is my heal more than a shield but will apply when my health is low.

Dk_needs_a_buff · May 2017

Il be honest here. I play magic sorc as my main character. Since they have become meta ( i hate playing meta) ive taken 1 shield off. So i have healing ward and the sorcs shield. This makes it more balanced but im still not weak. I actually kill most sorcs who use the meta

Pallio · May 2017

The class shield is the only one better than the ones every class gets, cheap and/or longer 10s. But, sorc has severe shortage for slots so no way you can run 3 shields plus no one has the resources to maintain even 1 very long. But, it sounds great in an argument to prove they should nerf sorcs, if you don't play one.

Lord-Otto · May 2017

Small addendum to @Minalan :
You're mostly right about perma-shieldstack. However, when you fight a burst build *cough*DWSorc*cough*, while taking four seconds to get in your own burst, using only one shield will get you killed. Unless you have like 50k mag. Heavily advise frequent shieldstack there!

Trashs1 · May 2017

thx a lot for advices

Araviel2 · May 2017

i only play whit harden/healing ward, and instead i build for more heals and stamina to be able to dodge roll.
this is less effective vs burst builds, but more effective vs large groups.
and as i run vicious death most of the time large groups is my focus target.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

Trashs1 wrote: »

mutagen sounds nice yes

It may be helpful before engaging in a fight, and the minor burst heal proc can be nice, but with healing halved in Cyro, it's not as potent as you would think it would be.

That's why most opt for Healing Ward. Will provide a much bigger heal if you can hold out that long.

Mutagen is more like a supplement to health regen, which doesn't count for much in a fight.