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DEVELOPER'S Balance The Ice Staff With its Counter Elements.

VierulSquirrel
Can we make ice staves more viable for overall dps, some of the issues lay with the useless taunt, poor chilled passive, and poor decision on the ice destro ultimate. So let's look into how we can fix this.
The ultimate - It should cost less compered to the other elemental counterparts.
Inferno does more dmg in the same time (10%) not including the burning status.
Lightning last 2 seconds longer. In a trial situation full buffs thats is roughly an additional 20-25k aoe damage, non crit.
Ice "immobilizes", however mobs and elite adds cannot be immobilized. I get it, in PvP this can be usefull but most classes still use eye of the storm, paired with an inferno staff and gap close. With streak, Templar charge, ect.
The heavy attack - I'm sorry to kill the dreams of ice stave tanks. This will not work in end game pve. Sure you can pull a boss with it, or just use inner fire from Undaunted. This does however, not allow dps to use it because most if not every rotation will start with heavy attacks and you may use them during fights come morrowind.
This can be fixed by making the heavy attack grant MINOR HEROISM, for 3-5 second.
The ice wall let the snare from chilled stay, it's fine it helps PvP, and doesn't hinder pve, however add onto it, At the moment, if chilled enemies stay in a wall of elements too long or get hit woth Force pulse they can be immobilized, (another reason the ice stave ult passive is obsolete), when this happens make the immobilized target get minor maim. (15% damage reduction), this will help the "tanks" and PvP community.
The blocking passive is "ok" however it is rarely required when all other elemental users do just fine without it.
I know people voices their opinion on liking the taunt but I would suggest adding it to elemental susceptibility as someone did before. NOT ELEMENTAL DRAIN. Or take it out completely. I have yet to see anyone even use the heavy attack taunt.
This brings me to the players that wanted an ice based tank.
The Warden!
The ice passive is fine where it is, for PvP, however this means you should, and I highly recommend this, increasing the dmg from ice based sets! YSGRAMORS for example. It's 400 on the 5peice does not scale near as much as Netches touch would on a sorc. Same for sets on dk. Etc. Elemental succession from VMA, forget it. It's 5 peice will need a 300% boost to be someone viable.
This will boosts it's overall damage out put for PvE players without making class over powered in PvP, they will most likely be in heavy armor anyways.
I know you, the makers of the game probably don't want "META" builds and having people play into their class passives full out, and making elemental casters (plural) and not just fire/inferno, doing this will help. Make it more rewarding to build upon their class and not just a dark elf with inferno. At the moment all 4 magicka dps classes are exactly that.
If anyone has any thoughts on this please voice your thoughts on the subject. It's not role play, it's balance. Get this to the devs so we can get these changes pushed through for morrowind.
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Ice Staff becomes useless,

    I like idea of ice tanks but developer fails to do in right way!

    May be future update will make it useful!
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on May 13, 2017 7:55AM
  • VierulSquirrel
    Ice Staff becomes useless,

    I like idea of ice tanks but developer fails to do in right way!

    May be future update will make it useful!

    The Warden man! I can't wait to tank with it. It's ice and it's going to be so fun. Yes ice tank. Just not ice (staff) tank.
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Ice Staff becomes useless,

    I like idea of ice tanks but developer fails to do in right way!

    May be future update will make it useful!

    The Warden man! I can't wait to tank with it. It's ice and it's going to be so fun. Yes ice tank. Just not ice (staff) tank.

    Even warden ice skils are more like mixed Tank + DPS.

    They can perform better then current ice tanks but not main tank in Vet Trials
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on May 13, 2017 12:20PM
  • VierulSquirrel
    Ice Staff becomes useless,

    I like idea of ice tanks but developer fails to do in right way!

    May be future update will make it useful!

    The Warden man! I can't wait to tank with it. It's ice and it's going to be so fun. Yes ice tank. Just not ice (staff) tank.

    Even warden ice skils are more like mixed Tank + 1DPS.

    They can perform better then current ice tanks but not main tank in Vet Trials

    Actually there is a of lot talk of having wardens main tank while letting dks off tank more than not. Just waiting to see how the dks sustain is after the final release.
    Edited by VierulSquirrel on May 13, 2017 11:20AM
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    staminas have
    dw - sustain dps
    2h - burst dps
    snb - defensive
    bow - ranged dps oddball

    magicas have
    fire staff - single target dps
    light staff - aoe dps
    ice staff - defensive
    resto - healing oddball

    seems to me no need to make ice staff into some other dps weapon any more than need to make snb another dps weapon.


    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    I'm going to run Frost staff DPS with my Warden and NOT put any points into Tri-Focus passive because I don't want the taunt or pointless 'shield'. A couple Frost staff skills combined with Warden Class skills will be a pretty potent combination. Thankfully I don't do 'end game' content or PvP so I don't have to worry about min/maxing.
    CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    I'm going to run Frost staff DPS with my Warden and NOT put any points into Tri-Focus passive because I don't want the taunt or pointless 'shield'. A couple Frost staff skills combined with Warden Class skills will be a pretty potent combination. Thankfully I don't do 'end game' content or PvP so I don't have to worry about min/maxing.

    What exactly do you do then? Just vet dungeons solo?
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • VierulSquirrel
    STEVIL wrote: »
    staminas have
    dw - sustain dps
    2h - burst dps
    snb - defensive
    bow - ranged dps oddball

    magicas have
    fire staff - single target dps
    light staff - aoe dps
    ice staff - defensive
    resto - healing oddball

    seems to me no need to make ice staff into some other dps weapon any more than need to make snb another dps weapon.


    The logic behind an ice staff and sword and shield dealing the same damage proves how little of the content you play, the big deal is the fact the ice staff if a "destruction" staff. You might as well make 2h passive where mauls grant the same as s&b passives. But when people are commenting without noting or "discussing" the issues at hand they hold the game back.
    As you claim the sword and board is stamina based, yes it cost stamina to block, however tanks for end game have way less stam than dps and actually focus more into magic/recovery ect. Under 30k stam. Sometimes around 20-25
  • VierulSquirrel
    Adding the taunt to elemental susceptibility will allow staff tanks a faster way to taunt multiple adds while applying a debuff. Just like puncture does. And with the ice wall applying minor main, it will be like an aoe heroic slash. This will not break pvp, it will help staff tanks. And with the damage buffs to frost sets, paired with some cost reduction on the ult will help PvE dps output.
    Edited by VierulSquirrel on May 14, 2017 5:12AM
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    staminas have
    dw - sustain dps
    2h - burst dps
    snb - defensive
    bow - ranged dps oddball

    magicas have
    fire staff - single target dps
    light staff - aoe dps
    ice staff - defensive
    resto - healing oddball

    seems to me no need to make ice staff into some other dps weapon any more than need to make snb another dps weapon.


    The logic behind an ice staff and sword and shield dealing the same damage proves how little of the content you play, the big deal is the fact the ice staff if a "destruction" staff. You might as well make 2h passive where mauls grant the same as s&b passives. But when people are commenting without noting or "discussing" the issues at hand they hold the game back.
    As you claim the sword and board is stamina based, yes it cost stamina to block, however tanks for end game have way less stam than dps and actually focus more into magic/recovery ect. Under 30k stam. Sometimes around 20-25

    I confess to being quite baffled by most of what you say.

    First, since i did not suggest both ice staff and snb being set to the same damage, any conclusion you may draw from that about the content i play (not sure where that follows at all) is specious at best.

    Second, yes the word destruction appears in the ice staff name... so what? is the meaner the name sounds is supposed to determine the damage, somehow? Should "mauls" do more damage than "sword" because "maul" is definitely a meaner sounding name than sword? What about "maul" and "hammer"? One of those is definitely more likely to sound mean. "Dagger" less damage than "axe"? How far should the "name choice sets damage" go?

    Third, as for sword and board being stamina-based, since its skills use stamina and scale from stamina and weapon damage for the most part, it seemed to not be a controversial claim.

    So, let me ask - why do we need ice staff to be changed to another dps-centric option for magica builds more than we need snb to be changed to a more dps-centric option for stamina builds? Why should magica builds not have a tank-centric weapon option that they can sustain with, among other options, heavy attacks?





    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Oakmontowls_ESO
    Oakmontowls_ESO
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    Honestly I'd rather them buff Ice staves as a dps weapon that focuses on cc and create a new weapon that focuses on alteration magic. Basically it would be a magika based s&b tree. However I wouldn't like the effect of diluting the loot pools.
  • VierulSquirrel
    Lol. Meaner
    I'm just simply offering a solution to allow all aspects of the game regarding the ice staves, to get better.
    Currently it's very I der used and I would like to see it more often than its current state.
    Ice staff tanks will like the changes
    They will be able to taunt faster, and apply a few debuffs like real tanks do.
    PvP will benefit slightly but it won't break the gameplay for them.
    PvE will get more diversity when it comes to magic dps.
    @Oakmontowls_ESO I agree, however the bosses and elite adds are currently "immune" to the CC's. And if they were to buff that aspect you will probably find all ice dps and be able to hold trial boss permanently still and the would break the game too much in my opinion. I can attest to this because winterborn on the twins in Vet Maw of Lorkhaj can snare the adds and the bosses making the swapping after room split deadly. The bosses wouldn't get past each other and they would throw out bad colors and everyone would die. This was with having 1 person capable of snaring the boss. Lol.
    Edited by VierulSquirrel on May 15, 2017 4:42AM
  • Oakmontowls_ESO
    Oakmontowls_ESO
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    Lol. Meaner
    I'm just simply offering a solution to allow all aspects of the game regarding the ice staves, to get better.
    Currently it's very I der used and I would like to see it more often than its current state.
    Ice staff tanks will like the changes
    They will be able to taunt faster, and apply a few debuffs like real tanks do.
    PvP will benefit slightly but it won't break the gameplay for them.
    PvE will get more diversity when it comes to magic dps.
    @Oakmontowls_ESO I agree, however the bosses and elite adds are currently "immune" to the CC's. And if they were to buff that aspect you will probably find all ice dps and be able to hold trial boss permanently still and the would break the game too much in my opinion. I can attest to this because winterborn on the twins in Vet Maw of Lorkhaj can snare the adds and the bosses making the swapping after room split deadly. The bosses wouldn't get past each other and they would throw out bad colors and everyone would die. This was with having 1 person capable of snaring the boss. Lol.

    it would be more of a pvp weapon since besides talons, cc isn't really used much in pve.
  • VierulSquirrel
    Yeah, well it's because it's can't be used. Most targets in PvE are immune, more reason to implement change.
    Ps. Encase, fossilized, agony, eruption, bombard, along with talons.
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