Ceiling is lowered, well done. When is it time to raise the floor?

OrphanHelgen · May 2017

I know it's intended to lower the ceiling and raise the floor, but so far the floor haven't been raised yet.

When doing group tool, the veteran dungeons are the first thing you see. You actually have to have knowledge and scroll down and do some effort to find normal dungeons. Players have no idea what's different between veteran and normal dungeons. Players just open group tool and queue for the first thing they see. Also, players have their roles as DD and heal at the same time without knowing it, making a group whipe on the first boss because no healer, no tank and no experience or knowledge about the dungeon or the game in general.

Players are rage quitting and get frustrated over this. Even if it is a casual game, I can guarantee that no one likes to do a dungeon with inexperience players who doesn't know their role.

When I do pug dungeons, I don't ask for much, even though I am a tryhard player myself. I ask politely for end game players who group for a dungeon to at least try to do their roles.
Healer try to heal the group. There is so much more to a healer role I don't even know where to start or end, but main thing that people should know already in level 1, is that a healer gives heals.
Tanks try to soak the damage and actually taunt something. Again, I don't ask for much here, where tank role can do so much in this game. I only ask them to have a taunt on their bar and try to use it.

I am actually suprised myself how many cp600 doesn't even know this. When I started this game 3 years ago, I had taunt on my tank and heals on my healer before I was level 10. Something is wrong here. Is this the same in every mmo out there? I only have ESO as experience.

Balamoor · May 2017

You said PUG
That is a dirty word.

Nestor · May 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I am actually surprised myself how many cp600 doesn't even know this. When I started this game 3 years ago, I had taunt on my tank and heals on my healer before I was level 10. Something is wrong here. Is this the same in every mmo out there? I only have ESO as experience.

People like DPS because it is all flashy and sparkly and, well, easy to do.

If they really want to show off their "mad skillz" for the game, become a Support Healer or a Support Tank. We get more people who can fulfill those roles, not queue as that role, but actually do it, then most of the Group Finder complaints will go away.

OrphanHelgen · May 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

You said PUG
That is a dirty word.

I also said "leave". Also dirty word

Azyle1 · May 2017

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

MagnusBlackmane · May 2017

Well the MMO scene is a mixed bag. In my experience though, yeah it somewhat similar everywhere. But it's always the newcomer vs "old player" thing.

ESO is in slightly worse situation due to the abundance of things that catch your attention at once. Class skills, guild skills, crafts, world skills... I consider myself a casual with 3-5 hour of play time a day when something catches my fancy. Even still when I first started ESO up and opened skill panel I went "Holy s**t, that's a lot of skills..." I spent like solid 30 minutes looking around the skill trees before I even moved from the starting point. Something I bet rarely anyone does.

Turelus · May 2017

Funny... everyone keeps telling me their leaving because...

ZOS doesn't listen.
Sustain got nerfed.
Their class got nerfed.
Warden is pay to win.
Deltia said so.
There is no end game content.
The games to casual now, grrr casuals.

And all along it was really because people don't play healers right in pugs.

dotme · May 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

...I am actually surprised myself how many cp600 doesn't even know this....

I get it, but ESO allows many play-styles and dungeons is only one of them. I'll use myself as an example. CP600 (console) who loves PVP, but PVE not so much. So my time spend in dungeons is limited and so is my experience. I rarely venture into them and when I do, it's because I need a set piece for PVP and, thanks to BoP, the only way for me to get it is to stumble through content I'm unfamiliar with.

Believe me, I'd much prefer to walk up to a trader and buy what I need. But ZOS insists that people like me cause frustration by doing content we don't want to do just to try and level the playing field and have a fighting chance in PvP.

I've never done random (group finder) PvE content - I've always queued in with guild-mates who in most cases are patient with me and explain mechanics. I can't imagine how rough it must be on players who don't have that level of support - or good players who have to put up with the incompetence that must be rampant from their point of view.

andreasranasen · May 2017

One of the things with ESO that bugs the hell out of me is that it's NOT user friendly and an extremely poorly designed game.

Being a new player doing quests must be a total mind *** sincd there's nothing that really tells you where to go. Yes, I can open journal -> quest -> find on map. But how would a new player understand this?

What is the Grouping Tool? How does it really work? Does it work? No, it's broken ALL the *** time.

A new Morrowind Prologue quest was released earlier this week. How did people find out about it? THROUGH OTHER PLAYERS... like wtf?
The proper way of doing this would be a pop-up notification or a mail asking you to visit such and such to grab this new quest.

Same with events. No announcement IN-GAME about it. It's only through players or browsing online to find you answer.

The UI in this game is very confusing and not helping and just really poorly designed. It's just not user friendly and really only hurting Zenimax pocket.

Rouven · May 2017

Expanded Skyrim Online.

Harr harr. Well I don't know. Could be also that the mechanics in terms of skill points, unlocking skills and not seeing the morphs makes this particular subset of people not try out things.

I've never used the dungeon finder, but I also look up stuff on other websites. Not sure if those people really would leave the game because of that when there is so much else to do.

Azyle1 · May 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Funny... everyone keeps telling me their leaving because...
ZOS doesn't listen.

Sustain got nerfed.

Their class got nerfed.

Warden is pay to win.

Deltia said so.

There is no end game content.

The games to casual now, grrr casuals.

And all along it was really because people don't play healers right in pugs.

Yes, but complain every patch and threaten to leave, only to come back and realize (as some have said on PTR) it isn't as bad as it seems.

OrphanHelgen · May 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Funny... everyone keeps telling me their leaving because...
ZOS doesn't listen.

Sustain got nerfed.

Their class got nerfed.

Warden is pay to win.

Deltia said so.

There is no end game content.

The games to casual now, grrr casuals.

And all along it was really because people don't play healers right in pugs.

XD Funny. Yeah, I needed some sort of clickbait on my title. I wont hide that

Azyle1 · May 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

One of the things with ESO that bugs the hell out of me is that it's NOT user friendly and an extremely poorly designed game.

Being a new player doing quests must be a total mind *** sincd there's nothing that really tells you where to go. Yes, I can open journal -> quest -> find on map. But how would a new player understand this?

What is the Grouping Tool? How does it really work? Does it work? No, it's broken ALL the *** time.

A new Morrowind Prologue quest was released earlier this week. How did people find out about it? THROUGH OTHER PLAYERS... like wtf?
The proper way of doing this would be a pop-up notification or a mail asking you to visit such and such to grab this new quest.

Same with events. No announcement IN-GAME about it. It's only through players or browsing online to find you answer.

The UI in this game is very confusing and not helping and just really poorly designed. It's just not user friendly and really only hurting Zenimax pocket.

Also have to agree with this. The quality of life in this game is bad. What is funny though.. is it has already came a long way and it's still bad.

DRXHarbinger · May 2017

This be true, I had a CP600 Tank in VROM who didn't have taunt unlocked at all, never spent the skill point on it.

The sheer fact I've wasted my life sitting in a queue for nothing makes me want to throw my controller out the window and grab the Xbox by the power lead and swing it like a mace round and round.

But then again this game doesn't explain what "taunt" is, seriously it isn't clear unless you take to the internet and find Woeler etc, the game lacked a serious tutorial, half the pug tanks just think tanking is running into a pack and spamming light attacks and talons lol.

Serious issue is these double XP events, Game advertises itself to grind and grind away, hit max level and roll with the big boys, just need to grind mobs for a few hundred hours...Play as you want...This game could not be any further from Play as you want...Success does not come from "play as you want"

Vipstaakki · May 2017

There are 6 different types of players in ESO

- Tryhard elitists
- Novice casuals
- Roleplayers
- The PvP ***
- The PvE ***
- The forum warrior

When you mix all of these together you have a recipe for destruction.
ESO is currently a game that pleases no one really. It tries to cater to every type of player and fails at it. This is why people are fighting each other and when they get tired of the toxicity they decide to leave because fighting over to create ESO in their image is not worth it for them anymore.

MagnusBlackmane · May 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

XD Funny. Yeah, I needed some sort of clickbait on my title. I wont hide that

Well it worked, now brace yourself because s**tstorm is comig

Cpt_Teemo · May 2017

MagnusBlackmane wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

XD Funny. Yeah, I needed some sort of clickbait on my title. I wont hide that

Well it worked, now brace yourself because s**tstorm is comig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bT3y-yGfWE

Dracindo · May 2017

The only reasons I'll ever have for leaving are:

I just get bored of the game, and so do my friends.
Too much stuff going on in my life Nvm, gaming = life.
I'm playing too many other games. Dropped Skyrim to play this.

But in the end, I can always return. I took a break twice now, and I still came back. All I need is a good reason. This time, it was because of the free2play week. Got my GF into playing it and now we're playing together.

Turelus · May 2017

Azyle1 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Funny... everyone keeps telling me their leaving because...
ZOS doesn't listen.

Sustain got nerfed.

Their class got nerfed.

Warden is pay to win.

Deltia said so.

There is no end game content.

The games to casual now, grrr casuals.

And all along it was really because people don't play healers right in pugs.

Yes, but complain every patch and threaten to leave, only to come back and realize (as some have said on PTR) it isn't as bad as it seems.

Which is why when I quit games I don't make a stink about it on the forums. I just walk away, do something else and take a look in a few months when I have a fresh take on things.

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Funny... everyone keeps telling me their leaving because...
ZOS doesn't listen.

Sustain got nerfed.

Their class got nerfed.

Warden is pay to win.

Deltia said so.

There is no end game content.

The games to casual now, grrr casuals.

And all along it was really because people don't play healers right in pugs.

XD Funny. Yeah, I needed some sort of clickbait on my title. I wont hide that

Well you get an insightful for being honest.

OrphanHelgen · May 2017

MagnusBlackmane wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

XD Funny. Yeah, I needed some sort of clickbait on my title. I wont hide that

Well it worked, now brace yourself because s**tstorm is comig

Can actually change title, you are right

Turelus · May 2017

Vipstaakki wrote: »

There are 6 different types of players in ESO

- Tryhard elitists
- Novice casuals
- Roleplayers
- The PvP ***
- The PvE ***
- The forum warrior

When you mix all of these together you have a recipe for destruction.
ESO is currently a game that pleases no one really. It tries to cater to every type of player and fails at it. This is why people are fighting each other and when they get tired of the toxicity they decide to leave because fighting over to create ESO in their image is not worth it for them anymore.

FINALLY! Someone has posted a breakdown of the community that includes representation of my role here.

Balamoor · May 2017

Azyle1 wrote: »

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

ESO is casual and it's the people who try to force it to be like WoW who are having the worst time of it, I know one Guild leader who is actually having real life physical issues over the stress he is putting himself through because of ESO's elder game, I feel bad for the guy but it's laughable you see all this chest thumping over a game that was meant to be and is Elder Scrolls with friends.

If you take away all the hair pulling and angst over Vet Dungeons and Trials (which are made by serial Puggers) the vast majority of people are enjoying the game for what it is and was meant to be a casual MMO.

And there isn't a damn thing wrong with that, the WoW l33t d00ds told the casuals to leave their game, we did, it's not our fault that a handful of them followed and are now spazzing out because it isn't Raid or die 2.0

Silver_Strider · May 2017

I left because blatant issues in class balance, broken grouping tool, and PvP load screens.

I'd carry a group on broken ankles if everything else was addressed to a point that the game was balanced and fixed.

starkerealm · May 2017

Azyle1 wrote: »

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

You missed the whole, "it's all pay to win," crap. Where large chunks of the community will point at completely cosmetic items and claim they're P2W.

Azyle1 · May 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

ESO is casual and it's the people who try to force it to be like WoW who are having the worst time of it, I know one Guild leader who is actually having real life physical issues over the stress he is putting himself through because of ESO's elder game, I feel bad for the guy but it's laughable you see all this chest thumping over a game that was meant to be and is Elder Scrolls with friends.

If you take away all the hair pulling and angst over Vet Dungeons and Trials (which are made by serial Puggers) the vast majority of people are enjoying the game for what it is and was meant to be a casual MMO.

And there isn't a damn thing wrong with that, the WoW l33t d00ds told the casuals to leave their game, we did, it's not our fault that a handful of them followed and are now spazzing out because it isn't Raid or die 2.0

Right.

However, I will say that this game seriously needs to adopt some quality of life concepts from WoW. I like the "casual" element of this game. I don't have time, nor do I want to be an uber L33t WoW player. This suits me fine. However, it should copy some quality of life things for sure.

Azyle1 · May 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

You missed the whole, "it's all pay to win," crap. Where large chunks of the community will point at completely cosmetic items and claim they're P2W.

Oh yes, how could I forget that. Also, people think that we are being ripped off because you have to buy Morrowind, therefore it is a "cashgrab".

Rinmaethodain · May 2017

Rise the floor? You mean git gud? "Lowering the celling" is done by developers to halt the power creep (which in the end is caused by developers too). The "Rising the floor" part is done by players who learn how to play their classes, practice and improve their skills instead of waiting for developers to give them a magic item +2K DPS

Kodrac · May 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

More useless Teemo crap

Now I remember why I had you on ignore. Going back on it.

starkerealm · May 2017

Azyle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

You missed the whole, "it's all pay to win," crap. Where large chunks of the community will point at completely cosmetic items and claim they're P2W.

Oh yes, how could I forget that. Also, people think that we are being ripped off because you have to buy Morrowind, therefore it is a "cashgrab".

Well, that everything is a "cash grab."

Like the houses, which are simultaneously: Useless, P2W, and a Cash Grab.

Azyle1 · May 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

You missed the whole, "it's all pay to win," crap. Where large chunks of the community will point at completely cosmetic items and claim they're P2W.

Oh yes, how could I forget that. Also, people think that we are being ripped off because you have to buy Morrowind, therefore it is a "cashgrab".

Well, that everything is a "cash grab."

Like the houses, which are simultaneously: Useless, P2W, and a Cash Grab.

Glad other people understand the reality like you and I do.

Balamoor · May 2017

Azyle1 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

I've said this on Gamefaqs.com....

ESO may be the most stupid fanbase as far as MMO's go.

People still don't realize that if they are even an ESO plus member, they aren't getting Morrowind for free. People do not understand what type of game they are playing.

An MMO first. People don't want to learn their classes. This is by far the most casual MMO I have played (also the most fun) yet you would think it is hard because people refuse to learn. The mechanics are not hard. Certainly not harder than WoW/FFXIV.

Tanks I do PuGs with have no clear how to hold aggro. They just think they stand in front on the boss and.. well, that's it.

You can't argue ESO Is NOT casual. Even the most difficult content pales in difficulty to other games (Again, I welcome this).

ESO is casual and it's the people who try to force it to be like WoW who are having the worst time of it, I know one Guild leader who is actually having real life physical issues over the stress he is putting himself through because of ESO's elder game, I feel bad for the guy but it's laughable you see all this chest thumping over a game that was meant to be and is Elder Scrolls with friends.

If you take away all the hair pulling and angst over Vet Dungeons and Trials (which are made by serial Puggers) the vast majority of people are enjoying the game for what it is and was meant to be a casual MMO.

And there isn't a damn thing wrong with that, the WoW l33t d00ds told the casuals to leave their game, we did, it's not our fault that a handful of them followed and are now spazzing out because it isn't Raid or die 2.0

Right.

However, I will say that this game seriously needs to adopt some quality of life concepts from WoW. I like the "casual" element of this game. I don't have time, nor do I want to be an uber L33t WoW player. This suits me fine. However, it should copy some quality of life things for sure.

I couldn't agree more, the problem is it's hard to ask for such things over the din of "Muh Elite Specialnezzez!!!!!" I think it's telling that the expansion has one raid that has zero to do with the story arch other than "look at this guys."

When I was consulting for Turbine the devs for LOTRO stopped producing Raids and Vet dungeons and the community evolved into one of the friendliest MMO communities out there, what surprised everyone is the expectation was for profit margins to level or drop slightly and they almost doubled .....it appears that is the direction ZoS is heading as well and I think it's smart.

There are a couple of raid or die MMO's on the horizon, I think the more competitive players will move to one of those and ZoS will be able to focus more on quality of life things without the forums exploding, time will tell though.