Are people going to complain until all fun is removed from this game ?

Malic · May 2017

God I hope so OP, since the first morrowind patch notes I havent laughed so hard at forum tears since my days in lotro.

These are the glory days, revel in its splendor.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · May 2017

Are people going to complain until all fun is removed from this game?

Unfortunately, yes. ZOS only listens to the vocal few.

phairdon · May 2017

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Is this a "please don't nerf sorcs, that's not fair" thread? I never thought I'd see one of these gems

Was it not some time last year (perhaps 2015), when magicka sorcerers were considered trash and the end was nigh, due to nerfs? Stamina builds became fotm.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

Yeah I like healing in PvP. Some people like WB spam, some healing, some ganking, and God forbid RD be a good unique execute. Instead of making the game better this game keeps getting more vanilla through nerfs to appease the few vocal people. The classes are getting Wrobel'd all of the time and it's making the game boring.

Browiseth · May 2017

people will complain until more fun is added

that's why we complain, because we aren't having fun and would very much like to

logarifmik · May 2017

"Nerf Sorcerers" becomes almost a slogan.
I know this is only a game and balance is inevitable, but think about Sorcerers power from this point. They are pure magicians, closer to Mage and Sorcerer classes from TES III and IV than other classes in TESO. Magicians are powerful fellas, don't you agree? Powerful until they have enough magicka, without it they become cannon fodder. Almost all powerful personalities in the TES history was magicians. So, they must be an... overlords. But that was a little off topic.
I think Sorcerer is the most successful class in TESO from the gameplay point of view and other classes must be lifted to its level. Not only by "playing with numbers" using "big data", but in their core.
Nevertheless, I totally agree with idea that each class should be really good in one, maybe two traditional for MMO RPGs roles. Well, Sorcerers are really good as DDs... And with summons they can make up a small group of three (tank-DD-healer), which looks out of normal, but summons are almost useless in the end-game dungeons and trials, not the best choice for PvP either. DK seems to be the best choice for tanking and good one for DD. Templar is a good tank and the best healer. NB should be a pain in the arse in PvP, good DD and maybe a tank (I personaly like the idea of "tank-illusionist").
Wanna an example of such "balance"? Look at DotA 2 for instance and you will understand what I'm talking about.
So, why nerf? Maybe other classes then Sorcerer need an upgrade? But not to make them all equal, by no means.

FENGRUSH · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

Yeah I like healing in PvP. Some people like WB spam, some healing, some ganking, and God forbid RD be a good unique execute. Instead of making the game better this game keeps getting more vanilla through nerfs to appease the few vocal people. The classes are getting Wrobel'd all of the time and it's making the game boring.

Theres a difference between having fun healing and having only 1 class in the game who can heal through holding down block and jamming in endless heals due to CP/passives.

If youre going to oversimplify the threads for the sake of trolling - youll get nowhere. Threads like this literally have 0 impact on the developers. Ive painted a pretty clear concept on the stupidity of templar healing. It has changes coming to it, rightfully. Other portions of the class were changed (due to PVE). Trying to rope me in on blame of repent or shards is reckless and misguided on your part.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

Yeah I like healing in PvP. Some people like WB spam, some healing, some ganking, and God forbid RD be a good unique execute. Instead of making the game better this game keeps getting more vanilla through nerfs to appease the few vocal people. The classes are getting Wrobel'd all of the time and it's making the game boring.

Theres a difference between having fun healing and having only 1 class in the game who can heal through holding down block and jamming in endless heals due to CP/passives.

If youre going to oversimplify the threads for the sake of trolling - youll get nowhere. Threads like this literally have 0 impact on the developers. Ive painted a pretty clear concept on the stupidity of templar healing. It has changes coming to it, rightfully. Other portions of the class were changed (due to PVE). Trying to rope me in on blame of repent or shards is reckless and misguided on your part.

CP and passives is a different issue entirely. My issues is destroying unique class skills and the homogenization of the game. It makes it boring, and this has been the trend. This class also has little mobility and next to zero CC. The devs vision on classes in this game is muddy at best. Often their changes seem reactionary with little thought on changing a skill to match class arc. I'm not over simplifying anything at all, the game is becoming homogenized and the player base knows it.

I'm not roping you into anything.

BalticBlues · May 2017

After ZOS' castration of Templars into oblivion,
Sorcs are the last class I have fun to play with.

If ZOS will castrate and ruin this class as well, I will be gone.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

I wish ZOS would not listen at all to pure DD PVP streamers like you.
BOL is the most expensive heal of the entire game.
Players "spamming BOL" will just empty their resources...
Or enlighten us: How many people did you kill with Breath of Life?

Because of ruthless PvP players like you, BOL will now be cut to 50% area, invalidating the high costs of BOL and making it highly problematic in high-speed-movement dungeons you probably never played. ZOS is destroying the Templar class or at least making it unfun with tons of nerfs. For what? The 10% of people playing PvP? This is unbelievable.

FENGRUSH · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

Yeah I like healing in PvP. Some people like WB spam, some healing, some ganking, and God forbid RD be a good unique execute. Instead of making the game better this game keeps getting more vanilla through nerfs to appease the few vocal people. The classes are getting Wrobel'd all of the time and it's making the game boring.

Theres a difference between having fun healing and having only 1 class in the game who can heal through holding down block and jamming in endless heals due to CP/passives.

If youre going to oversimplify the threads for the sake of trolling - youll get nowhere. Threads like this literally have 0 impact on the developers. Ive painted a pretty clear concept on the stupidity of templar healing. It has changes coming to it, rightfully. Other portions of the class were changed (due to PVE). Trying to rope me in on blame of repent or shards is reckless and misguided on your part.

CP and passives is a different issue entirely. My issues is destroying unique class skills and the homogenization of the game. It makes it boring, and this has been the trend. This class also has little mobility and next to zero CC. The devs vision on classes in this game is muddy at best. Often their changes seem reactionary with little thought on changing a skill to match class arc. I'm not over simplifying anything at all, the game is becoming homogenized and the player base knows it.

I'm not roping you into anything.

Sounds like you dont actually watch my stream but are blaming my stream for issues Ive discussed. Then youre also giving other 'streamers' a bad reputation. If you think Ive advocated for claass homogenization - you are incorrect, and would be hard pressed to back that claim up.

Draekony · May 2017

It happens in every game now, games too hard or something for casuals then its cryfest until its fixed. More than not it's a vocal minority crying about it then the silent majority quit playing when it changes. Seen it on WOW, and now EQ progression servers.

Dracindo · May 2017

The only thing I'm complaining about, is that you MUST buy Morrowind to create a Warden.
I would stop complaining, though, if they'd confirm that this class either:

Becomes free to play, or
Becomes available in the crown store at a cheaper price

at some point. Or if the expansion self goes on a super cheap sale.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

Yeah I like healing in PvP. Some people like WB spam, some healing, some ganking, and God forbid RD be a good unique execute. Instead of making the game better this game keeps getting more vanilla through nerfs to appease the few vocal people. The classes are getting Wrobel'd all of the time and it's making the game boring.

Theres a difference between having fun healing and having only 1 class in the game who can heal through holding down block and jamming in endless heals due to CP/passives.

If youre going to oversimplify the threads for the sake of trolling - youll get nowhere. Threads like this literally have 0 impact on the developers. Ive painted a pretty clear concept on the stupidity of templar healing. It has changes coming to it, rightfully. Other portions of the class were changed (due to PVE). Trying to rope me in on blame of repent or shards is reckless and misguided on your part.

CP and passives is a different issue entirely. My issues is destroying unique class skills and the homogenization of the game. It makes it boring, and this has been the trend. This class also has little mobility and next to zero CC. The devs vision on classes in this game is muddy at best. Often their changes seem reactionary with little thought on changing a skill to match class arc. I'm not over simplifying anything at all, the game is becoming homogenized and the player base knows it.

I'm not roping you into anything.

Sounds like you dont actually watch my stream but are blaming my stream for issues Ive discussed. Then youre also giving other 'streamers' a bad reputation. If you think Ive advocated for claass homogenization - you are incorrect, and would be hard pressed to back that claim up.

I've watched your stream and I'm subscribed to your channel as well. I agree with a lot of your commentary, but also disagree with some it. Unfortunately, a lot of that is related to the Templar, which I have been playing since BETA. With that class specifically, it has been nerfed over and over and over and over again and @Wrobel just keeps jacking it up, and I am sick of it. Yes, talk from streamers has been a main reason why the Templar has been nerfed so many times.

I was completely with you on the stam sorc, it had been outright neglected for so long and it actually improved for the better which is rare with classes in this game.

FENGRUSH · May 2017

BalticBlues wrote: »

After ZOS' castration of Templars into oblivion,
Sorcs are the last class I have fun to play with.

If ZOS will castrate and ruin this class as well, I will be gone.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

I wish ZOS would not listen at all to pure DD PVP streamers like you.
BOL is the most expensive heal of the entire game.
Players "spamming BOL" will just empty their resources...
Or enlighten us: How many people did you kill with Breath of Life?

Because of ruthless PvP players like you, BOL will now be cut to 50% area, invalidating the high costs of BOL and making it highly problematic in high-speed-movement dungeons you probably never played. ZOS is destroying the Templar class or at least making it unfun with tons of nerfs. For what? The 10% of people playing PvP? This is unbelievable.

I do more than pure DD PVP. Ive completed all the PVE content - Ive made support builds on different classes. Ive played healing templar quite a bit as well and made variety of builds. Building a successful healing templar is very effective and potent. It isnt even argued by anyone who plays templar at a higher level its effectiveness as a healer in CP environments. Plays dont 'empty their resources' playing a magplar that is well designed. I dont even run out of magicka on nonCP, and I have the highest survival in the group doing it. The reality is, their healing is high due to things like major mending - something you dont even mention here? Changing the target area of BOL adds a level of thinking to the strongest heal in the game. Sure its the most expensive, it should be as the strongest heal - it is not abnormally expensive. Nor do I argue for that.

Your viewpoint is that I only understand killing people and would always like to do it faster and make it easier. Its a simplistic viewpoint by people that dont actually know the ideas of balance I advocate for - but simply hear a simple idea second hand and run with it. BOL being "cut by 50%, invalidating the high cost" doesnt even make sense. Its cost is high because its an instant heal that outperforms the rest in its category. Check its cost structure comparatively with other heals.

OrphanHelgen · May 2017

Nerfs are needed in games that are competive. ESO is not competive at all. Yes there is leaderboards, but that's it. Game is not based on the competive parts. With account bound leaderboards, better rewards and more end game community, I would understand nerfs. But now, as I see it, they only nerf to drag out the current content more.

And yes I confirm, I am bored AF.

There is no skills to theorycraft with and no sets other then meta sets works in end game. Nerfing spellweave and maelstrom weapons, wont make change.

Smmokkee · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I swear the class skills and balance developers listen to the community too much, especially the streamers. We used to have more unique class defining abilities and they keep getting nerfed into oblivion (not a pun). These are the skills and abilities that actually make the game fun. Once a unique class defining ability is nerfed or made vanilla to match other skills this community moves onto the next one. I am so tired of it, now people are whining about the sorc. The sorc is a perfectly well balanced class that is very versatile and fun to play. Now the community is whining about that, it's unbelievable.

Do you want them to get nerfed to the point that they are boring to play like the MagBlabe? If the developers would actually make boring classes more fun and lift them to the level of sorc it would be much better. But we have devs that make classes more boring, more vanilla, and homogenize unique skills. Sometimes this community is just unbelievable.

Sorcs are fun to play, while other classes have gotten more homogenized. I can see Wrobel nuking the fun versatile sorc. Who does that? Seriously...

The sorc is balanced in comparison to what? The other classes?? Lolololololhahahalolol

FENGRUSH · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

Yeah I like healing in PvP. Some people like WB spam, some healing, some ganking, and God forbid RD be a good unique execute. Instead of making the game better this game keeps getting more vanilla through nerfs to appease the few vocal people. The classes are getting Wrobel'd all of the time and it's making the game boring.

Theres a difference between having fun healing and having only 1 class in the game who can heal through holding down block and jamming in endless heals due to CP/passives.

If youre going to oversimplify the threads for the sake of trolling - youll get nowhere. Threads like this literally have 0 impact on the developers. Ive painted a pretty clear concept on the stupidity of templar healing. It has changes coming to it, rightfully. Other portions of the class were changed (due to PVE). Trying to rope me in on blame of repent or shards is reckless and misguided on your part.

CP and passives is a different issue entirely. My issues is destroying unique class skills and the homogenization of the game. It makes it boring, and this has been the trend. This class also has little mobility and next to zero CC. The devs vision on classes in this game is muddy at best. Often their changes seem reactionary with little thought on changing a skill to match class arc. I'm not over simplifying anything at all, the game is becoming homogenized and the player base knows it.

I'm not roping you into anything.

Sounds like you dont actually watch my stream but are blaming my stream for issues Ive discussed. Then youre also giving other 'streamers' a bad reputation. If you think Ive advocated for claass homogenization - you are incorrect, and would be hard pressed to back that claim up.

I've watched your stream and I'm subscribed to your channel as well. I agree with a lot of your commentary, but also disagree with some it. Unfortunately, a lot of that is related to the Templar, which I have been playing since BETA. With that class specifically, it has been nerfed over and over and over and over again and @Wrobel just keeps jacking it up, and I am sick of it. Yes, talk from streamers has been a main reason why the Templar has been nerfed so many times.

I was completely with you on the stam sorc, it had been outright neglected for so long and it actually improved for the better which is rare with classes in this game.

Ive suggested nerfs and in some cases "fixes" to some strengths of stam sorc. As far as templar goes - it still retains its strength as the best healer. Ive advocated for bringing down burst windows on damage, healing, and bringing value back to sustain. This is something we used to have more of. Before soft caps were removed fights werent determined by a key moment of huge burst. Because I do this on stream people think that is all I am for. That is the gameplay though - that is how you win a fight. I prefer the former though.

Ive disagreed on the shards change, both this patch, and the stun removal of last one. I disagreed on repent. Ive advocated for adding even more unique teamplay functions to ALL classes. I will continue to advocate for that. If they move away from that - it will be an unfortunate direction for the game to go. At the same time, I realize theyre trying to do A LOT in one patch too. Addressing endless resource issues is a good step they are aggressively pursuing this patch. How it plays out in PvP open world is to be determined - but it doesnt look good for end game PVE content, and thats really unfortunate.

I can only share my view points and push for change with the devs. Some 'problems' get heard, but the solutions are not always the same. EI: this last patch skeleton set was 'fixed' so it isnt abused my mag sorcs, but made even stronger on other class setups. This isnt a good fix for an incredibly strong monster set with high uptime. High uptime is the problem for its strength. Troll king same issue. Regardless, streamers are often held accountable for all the changes that hit classes negatively if they discussed it at all.

LadyLavina · May 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I do more than pure DD PVP. Ive completed all the PVE content - Ive made support builds on different classes. Ive played healing templar quite a bit as well and made variety of builds. Building a successful healing templar is very effective and potent. It isnt even argued by anyone who plays templar at a higher level its effectiveness as a healer in CP environments. Plays dont 'empty their resources' playing a magplar that is well designed. I dont even run out of magicka on nonCP, and I have the highest survival in the group doing it. The reality is, their healing is high due to things like major mending - something you dont even mention here? Changing the target area of BOL adds a level of thinking to the strongest heal in the game. Sure its the most expensive, it should be as the strongest heal - it is not abnormally expensive. Nor do I argue for that.

Your viewpoint is that I only understand killing people and would always like to do it faster and make it easier. Its a simplistic viewpoint by people that dont actually know the ideas of balance I advocate for - but simply hear a simple idea second hand and run with it. BOL being "cut by 50%, invalidating the high cost" doesnt even make sense. Its cost is high because its an instant heal that outperforms the rest in its category. Check its cost structure comparatively with other heals.

Hell yeah, get 'em

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.

Yeah I like healing in PvP. Some people like WB spam, some healing, some ganking, and God forbid RD be a good unique execute. Instead of making the game better this game keeps getting more vanilla through nerfs to appease the few vocal people. The classes are getting Wrobel'd all of the time and it's making the game boring.

Theres a difference between having fun healing and having only 1 class in the game who can heal through holding down block and jamming in endless heals due to CP/passives.

If youre going to oversimplify the threads for the sake of trolling - youll get nowhere. Threads like this literally have 0 impact on the developers. Ive painted a pretty clear concept on the stupidity of templar healing. It has changes coming to it, rightfully. Other portions of the class were changed (due to PVE). Trying to rope me in on blame of repent or shards is reckless and misguided on your part.

CP and passives is a different issue entirely. My issues is destroying unique class skills and the homogenization of the game. It makes it boring, and this has been the trend. This class also has little mobility and next to zero CC. The devs vision on classes in this game is muddy at best. Often their changes seem reactionary with little thought on changing a skill to match class arc. I'm not over simplifying anything at all, the game is becoming homogenized and the player base knows it.

I'm not roping you into anything.

Sounds like you dont actually watch my stream but are blaming my stream for issues Ive discussed. Then youre also giving other 'streamers' a bad reputation. If you think Ive advocated for claass homogenization - you are incorrect, and would be hard pressed to back that claim up.

I've watched your stream and I'm subscribed to your channel as well. I agree with a lot of your commentary, but also disagree with some it. Unfortunately, a lot of that is related to the Templar, which I have been playing since BETA. With that class specifically, it has been nerfed over and over and over and over again and @Wrobel just keeps jacking it up, and I am sick of it. Yes, talk from streamers has been a main reason why the Templar has been nerfed so many times.

I was completely with you on the stam sorc, it had been outright neglected for so long and it actually improved for the better which is rare with classes in this game.

Ive suggested nerfs and in some cases "fixes" to some strengths of stam sorc. As far as templar goes - it still retains its strength as the best healer. Ive advocated for bringing down burst windows on damage, healing, and bringing value back to sustain. This is something we used to have more of. Before soft caps were removed fights werent determined by a key moment of huge burst. Because I do this on stream people think that is all I am for. That is the gameplay though - that is how you win a fight. I prefer the former though.

Ive disagreed on the shards change, both this patch, and the stun removal of last one. I disagreed on repent. Ive advocated for adding even more unique teamplay functions to ALL classes. I will continue to advocate for that. If they move away from that - it will be an unfortunate direction for the game to go. At the same time, I realize theyre trying to do A LOT in one patch too. Addressing endless resource issues is a good step they are aggressively pursuing this patch. How it plays out in PvP open world is to be determined - but it doesnt look good for end game PVE content, and thats really unfortunate.

I can only share my view points and push for change with the devs. Some 'problems' get heard, but the solutions are not always the same. EI: this last patch skeleton set was 'fixed' so it isnt abused my mag sorcs, but made even stronger on other class setups. This isnt a good fix for an incredibly strong monster set with high uptime. High uptime is the problem for its strength. Troll king same issue. Regardless, streamers are often held accountable for all the changes that hit classes negatively if they discussed it at all.

Sustain needed to change but it's ridiculous that they did so many changes in one patch. They should have done it gradually so they can let people get used to it and also see how it actually works out. They should have simply made the changes in CP. Basing certain sustain and skills based off of character level is a clunky and crappy mechanic IMO. The whole CP system was created for them to easily change how characters behave on a global level. Why mess with the skill mechanics to be based on level, I don't get it.

technohic · May 2017

Misery loves company.

SneaK · May 2017

They don't know how to balance the game. The sustain changes should have came via changes to Armor passives and CP, class changes regarding sustain weren't necessary. 180 degree BoL was a good change. Major Mending should have just been changed for everyone % wise.

Oh, and Destro ults are still the most dull playstyle PvP has ever seen.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

SneaK wrote: »

They don't know how to balance the game. The sustain changes should have came via changes to Armor passives and CP, class changes regarding sustain weren't necessary. 180 degree BoL was a good change. Major Mending should have just been changed for everyone % wise.

Oh, and Destro ults are still the most dull playstyle PvP has ever seen.

Since BoL was nerfed to 180, it should now affect an additional target IMO

SneaK · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

They don't know how to balance the game. The sustain changes should have came via changes to Armor passives and CP, class changes regarding sustain weren't necessary. 180 degree BoL was a good change. Major Mending should have just been changed for everyone % wise.

Oh, and Destro ults are still the most dull playstyle PvP has ever seen.

Since BoL was nerfed to 180, it should now affect an additional target IMO

Nah, BoL and Reactive Templars right now on live are ridiculous. More strategic healing is needed, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players from dying.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

SneaK wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

They don't know how to balance the game. The sustain changes should have came via changes to Armor passives and CP, class changes regarding sustain weren't necessary. 180 degree BoL was a good change. Major Mending should have just been changed for everyone % wise.

Oh, and Destro ults are still the most dull playstyle PvP has ever seen.

Since BoL was nerfed to 180, it should now affect an additional target IMO

Nah, BoL and Reactive Templars right now on live are ridiculous. More strategic healing is needed, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players from dying.

It's not all about PvP either. That's why it changed to 180, to make it more strategic. And yes, healing should be able to keep bad players alive.

ObsidianMichi · May 2017

Wow, someone summoned @FENGRUSH to this thread... and he came! In the future, be sure to only ever use this power for good.

Actually, I agree with Fengrush on this one. Templars are fun, but they've always been a bit spammable for me. Fun spam with bright colors, but spam all the same. I say that with my first Templar being a split build WW Breton, guys. My LS magicka altmer, who is only in purples, spamming BOL doesn't really ever cause me to run out of magicka and she can heal herself through a fair amount of group content. I don't have most of my points in cost discounts, either. So, I have no idea what heights could be reached with a truly tricked out build... but it would certainly be crazy.

On the PTS, doing some group content solo with my Altmer was actually fun. I had to try, and dance, and run, and jump, and winning felt really good.

SneaK · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

They don't know how to balance the game. The sustain changes should have came via changes to Armor passives and CP, class changes regarding sustain weren't necessary. 180 degree BoL was a good change. Major Mending should have just been changed for everyone % wise.

Oh, and Destro ults are still the most dull playstyle PvP has ever seen.

Since BoL was nerfed to 180, it should now affect an additional target IMO

Nah, BoL and Reactive Templars right now on live are ridiculous. More strategic healing is needed, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players from dying.

It's not all about PvP either. That's why it changed to 180, to make it more strategic. And yes, healing should be able to keep bad players alive.

Well you shouldn't need 360 degree BoL in PvE, ever. And no, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players alive. If you want to keep a player alive that is repeatedly making a mistake, you should have to focus on that player to heal them, ie. at least looking at them.

apostate9 · May 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I posted this in another thread but the same applies here

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Fun is subjective.

As far as uniqueness goes, I'd argue that was lost a long time ago.

DK chains were copied in Swarm Mother and Talons is just a mildly better version of Encase.
Everyone could get a decent shield via Annulment and up until fairly recently, pets were a joke that no one wanted and most still don't out of the simple fact that, even if Pets aren't prioritized over players, they can and still do "steal" buffs.
Invisibility is a potion away and Vampirism sure made you vanish into stealth pretty damn quickly.
Lava Whip and Veiled Strike are practically the same move with the only differences between the 2 being fairly mild in nature (Fire Damage vs Magic damage, Knockdown vs Stun, etc.)
Grim Focus is only unique in it's methodology but as far as functionality goes, it's similar to Crystal Frags in that they both have a requirement before they can be used and do fairly considerable damage.
Lighting Form and Spiked Armor are fairly similar as well.
Jabs and Flurry
Daedric Curse and Magic Det.

The list goes on and while not the exact same move, the similarities are enough that it doesn't exactly make them feel unique anymore. Also, just because a skill is better than one another does not make it unique either. The only truly unique skill I can even remotely think of is Repentance and that's because there is currently no other skill that interacts with Dead Bodies, at least not yet anyways. The group stamina return is something that I don't classify as unique as a Master Resto can do that to, just not as effectively but again, better skill =/= unique.

Class Defining moves and Uniqueness are a myth in ESO. The only reason classes were even made was for the sake of making the game easier to balance and even then ZOS is having a hard time finding that balance. Imagine the outright horror show if you could get the defensive capabilities of a DK, Healing potency of a Templar, godly sustain of Sorcerer and Ultimate Regen of NBs all on 1 character. A single theorycrafter putting all the best pieces together would make the ultimate build that could not be matched and everyone would just copy it because the "Uniqueness be damned, I want to be the best" mentality trumps everything else in any game with competitive elements.

The fact that Sorc damage numbers are higher than all other classes, having the best blend of survivability, AoE and ranged damage as well as great sustain while all other classes also had their sustain tools gutted to trash is hardly fair, regardless of your personal feelings on the matter.

You say Sorcs are balanced but how exactly is excelling at everything when your competitors are all crippled "balanced". That's like allowing an Olympic Gold Medalist to compete in the Special Olympics and saying it's balanced.

I didn't read the rest of the post—but Encase is probably 4 or 5 times better than Talons—it's not even a question. There's not even a debate to be had here—Talons is easily the most overrated skill in Elder Scrolls. Ask a MagDK PvP main who's played the class longer than 5 hours.

Yep. I don't even slot it anymore, it never roots anyone.

Tasear · May 2017

flizomica wrote: »

I wouldn't really say sorc is balanced cuz most score runs have like 6 of them in the group.

Think one of the problems with endgame PvE is that there's no reason to ever run anything with less dps because more dps = more skipped mechanics = ez clear. It's just the way stuff was designed with hard enrages (zhaj pillars running out) and soft enrages (too many twins adds to deal with).

Hopefully that'll change with how HoF was designed with a greater focus on mechanics, not DPS.

Maybe an area where you have to sheath or face more damage would be fun. I am still rooting for the pitfalls

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

SneaK wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

They don't know how to balance the game. The sustain changes should have came via changes to Armor passives and CP, class changes regarding sustain weren't necessary. 180 degree BoL was a good change. Major Mending should have just been changed for everyone % wise.

Oh, and Destro ults are still the most dull playstyle PvP has ever seen.

Since BoL was nerfed to 180, it should now affect an additional target IMO

Nah, BoL and Reactive Templars right now on live are ridiculous. More strategic healing is needed, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players from dying.

It's not all about PvP either. That's why it changed to 180, to make it more strategic. And yes, healing should be able to keep bad players alive.

Well you shouldn't need 360 degree BoL in PvE, ever. And no, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players alive. If you want to keep a player alive that is repeatedly making a mistake, you should have to focus on that player to heal them, ie. at least looking at them.

There are plenty of situations 360 BoL was nice. I am ok with the 180 degree change, players will just have to adjust. Completely disagree with you about keeping bad players alive, that should be the point of healing. You shift the tide of a battle through healing. So yeah I agree you should be looking at them, not sure where you came up with me not being ok with that.

SneaK · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

They don't know how to balance the game. The sustain changes should have came via changes to Armor passives and CP, class changes regarding sustain weren't necessary. 180 degree BoL was a good change. Major Mending should have just been changed for everyone % wise.

Oh, and Destro ults are still the most dull playstyle PvP has ever seen.

Since BoL was nerfed to 180, it should now affect an additional target IMO

Nah, BoL and Reactive Templars right now on live are ridiculous. More strategic healing is needed, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players from dying.

It's not all about PvP either. That's why it changed to 180, to make it more strategic. And yes, healing should be able to keep bad players alive.

Well you shouldn't need 360 degree BoL in PvE, ever. And no, bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players alive. If you want to keep a player alive that is repeatedly making a mistake, you should have to focus on that player to heal them, ie. at least looking at them.

There are plenty of situations 360 BoL was nice. I am ok with the 180 degree change, players will just have to adjust. Completely disagree with you about keeping bad players alive, that should be the point of healing. You shift the tide of a battle through healing. So yeah I agree you should be looking at them, not sure where you came up with me not being ok with that.

Maybe a miscommunication. In saying, "Bad players shouldn't be able to keep bad players alive," I was basically saying that healing should be more thoughtful than throwing on some HA tank/sustain gear, sword and board and block casting breath. A "good" healer should be able to keep a "not so good" player alive, but they should have to actually try and know who they are healing.