what is the point making NB as a dps class in PVE

Masel · May 2017

Magblade can do 36-37k dps on a dummy on the PTS while buffing two other dds with major slayer with 50% uptime with drain and orbs while using swallow soul or funnel health. So stop saying they're useless. But in trials they might be forced to be melee now as soul harvest is a melee ultimate. Or at least do one or the other. If they bring sorcs on par with the others it might become interesting.

And 34-35k on a ranged setup.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

The moment you seriously say Warden is P2W, it becomes difficult to not consider your thread a troll post. Warden is not P2W. Far from it.

Just watch those videos about Warden in its current state. I am sure you will change your mind after this... Compared to other classes warden is OP asf....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MApbdBQDN6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-bDrS1LAaM

DivyathFyr · May 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Magblade can do 36-37k dps on a dummy on the PTS while buffing two other dds with major slayer with 50% uptime with drain and orbs while using swallow soul or funnel health. So stop saying they're useless. But in trials they might be forced to be melee now as soul harvest is a melee ultimate. Or at least do one or the other. If they bring sorcs on par with the others it might become interesting.

And 34-35k on a ranged setup.

So stamblade going to be viable????

Massive_Stain · May 2017

I have a stam blade, and a magblade, both maxed out CP and skills. I never play either of them, but to occasionally test rotations on the dummy.

For me, its all about vet trials and vet hardmode trials. Why? Because I've been on pc since beta, and console since launch. Nightblades have been slowly phased out of trials and end game content in general since OT.

Bombashaman · May 2017

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, they thrive on conflict and misfortune trusting to their luck and cunning to survive. Nightblades can specialize on three distinctive class skills."

From character creation screen. No mention of omfgmeltface DPS, but more about survival. I see and play my NB more like a utility class.

So the answer to the title would be: "to make a game harder as NB won't dish out so much DPS as others."

Also this:

Synfaer wrote: »

Make 1 of each class

Then all you have to do is rotate to a different character after a balancing cycle.

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

pantshunter wrote: »

I dont want to make too much comment onWard

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

pantshunter wrote: »

Templar, untouchable
DK, untouchable
Sorc , hahahahahahahahaha
warden, P2W

so, as you can see, NB is a DPS class, but the healing class and tank class ability can do more damage( more useful as dps ) then a DPS class? where is the logic??

maybe i was wrong to see DK and templar as a tank and healer class, but if you play eso, you know the best tank will be DK, the best healer will be templar ( atm ) and sorc is best AOE damage.
NB? nothing is good for it, you would think they will have the best single target damage as a dps, but not, best single target is DK. so what is left for NB for PVE? you do around 15-20K less damage to a sorc, not as useful as MDK in vet trail ( expressly VMOL)

oh, the one thing that nb is good for and its second best for is VMA! the solo content it beat Templar and DK ^_^ so happy, that just show, if you want to play NB, its only good for solo content, if you want to play group contend, you better get a sorc, because it never get Nerf.

So, its NB dead for group PVE ? to me, yes. but the bright side, its good for doing quest, ''I am sure that is what people do when they lvl it to 50, all skill 50, mage guild 10, fighter guild 10 undaunted 9 just to do the quest'',

You know which class has the worst DPS? Not NB, NB is 2nd worst. It's Warden.

Besides, there's no such thing as a tank class or a healer class, or a DPS class in this game. Every class is designed so that they can tank/heal/DPS, whatever people want to do, NB is underperforming and sorc is overperforming, so sorc needs nerf and NB needs buff, that's it.

Dont want to talk too much about warden dps as its still PTS. but, your right about it, its not such thing as tank class or healer class. but if your doing VMOL HM, a two sorc healer come and 2 NB as a tank, what do you think? your not gona finish it. my point is every class have some strong point, but Nb DONT. ( they do for solo contend, like VMA, quests )

I have all 4 class stam and mag, and i play on all of them, and that is why i make a comment about it, i can ez to change to other character to play which i been doing using sorc and mdk for trail, nb for farming vma or solo.

I just dont like the way you can have sorc, dk, templar in a VET DUNGEON and have no problem as tank, dps or healer, but NB, you cant do all 3 of those, at less not as well as.

Next patch you will see more sorc/NB/DK healers in vet trials because they will be able to feed stamina to the group. Competitive guilds will still stick with Templar healers, that's for sure, but non-Templar healers can start doing vet trials without any issues. For DPS, sorc is OP in this meta since the buff to pet and AOE (they haven't always been this OP, at a point Templar DPS was dominant), sorc needs some nerfs, especially to the stupid pet, Templar and DK are in a good spot right now and NB definitely needs some buff.

You can definitely tank and heal as a Nightblade, Saptank is quite strong, yes they need buff for PvE DPS. I would argue that for 4-man content like dungeons, saptanking is better than DK tanking.

Daemons_Bane · May 2017

I like how the OP now says "I don't want to comment too much on Warden" due to him still being tested.. But he WILL declare him P2W

pantshunter · May 2017

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how the OP now says "I don't want to comment too much on Warden" due to him still being tested.. But he WILL declare him P2W

its P2W, you need buy a new game to play it.

STEVIL · May 2017

@Artis said:

"So what? So go take a hike. Are you saying that all the time I invested in my NB, all the practice, all the achievement - even the character name I love - are wasted and I just should be okay that I will never be able to play top-endgame?"

Hmmm... well... assuming you are talking like HM top-end not just normal or vet T/G PVE, if you had spent tons of times working up a stamsorc healer with all those achievements... should stamsorc class be buffed up as healer enough that they wound't be tossing you on your ear when they go for the top-score leaderboards hm too? Or even a mag sorc healer?

"EVEN if you had a point, that would mean they should be a pure pvp class. But then they should be much stronger than others to make up for their uselessness in pve. But then who would play any other class in pvp?"

Again, so binary... what they bring to pvp and pve is their additional stealth capability. That allows them greater control over situations in many cases. they can more easily pick their battles and escape from sudden changes. Add to that they are pretty effective at the general type of combat that goes on there.

key point is, combat is about more than "strength" and more about DPS, unless you are talking about fighting in a very small closet - like say PVE end game sustain stand-and-slug DPS.

Instead of trying to make nightblade into another flavorless slugger, why not work to getting more diverse top-end-game leaderboard stuff thats not about highest dps slugfest?

As for invisibility potions trumping the nb cloak... thats just silly. Cooldown is a killer.

kylewwefan · May 2017

Stamina Nightblade is my main toon with achievements and wat not. I can pull 20k DPS solo with S/B and defending weapons using a lot of class abilities and trash pots. Im no DPS nut so I've been quite happy with that.

You need to get a grip.

No one complains about my damage being low....it's usually the bow la and wrecking blow spam that's not doing very much.

The hard mode endgame raiding community on PS4 is not very big at all.......maybe Vet Trials and HM need a big nerf to accommodate the actual community.

In my experience, the vast majority of players in this game are casual. Even those that play hours a day aren't spending that much time in HM Vet Trial content and are still very much casual.

It's not that no one wants to.....but Vet Trials and HM are way beyond the capability of a lot of the player base....and rolling a pet Sorc build isn't going to help them either.

Daemons_Bane · May 2017

pantshunter wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how the OP now says "I don't want to comment too much on Warden" due to him still being tested.. But he WILL declare him P2W

its P2W, you need buy a new game to play it.

1: It's not a new game, since you can't play Morrowind by itself
2: That model is called P2P, aka Pay to Play..

So at most, Warden is P2P

exeeter702 · May 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The moment you seriously say Warden is P2W, it becomes difficult to not consider your thread a troll post. Warden is not P2W. Far from it.

Just watch those videos about Warden in its current state. I am sure you will change your mind after this... Compared to other classes warden is OP asf....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MApbdBQDN6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-bDrS1LAaM

are you serious right now?.....

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

pantshunter wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how the OP now says "I don't want to comment too much on Warden" due to him still being tested.. But he WILL declare him P2W

its P2W, you need buy a new game to play it.

How about pay to be average?

Daemons_Bane · May 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

pantshunter wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how the OP now says "I don't want to comment too much on Warden" due to him still being tested.. But he WILL declare him P2W

its P2W, you need buy a new game to play it.

How about pay to be average?

Nope

ANGEL_BtVS · May 2017

*

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The moment you seriously say Warden is P2W, it becomes difficult to not consider your thread a troll post. Warden is not P2W. Far from it.

Just watch those videos about Warden in its current state. I am sure you will change your mind after this... Compared to other classes warden is OP asf....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MApbdBQDN6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-bDrS1LAaM

Alcast already put out a dps test for the magicka warden. Lowest dps in the game and not viable for trials. Get a clue.

br0steen · May 2017

Keep these threads coming, eventually zos will make nbs super op in pve, I have a nb dps and nb tank so yea lets hear it.

Nb is dead zos do something!

Galwylin · May 2017

Nah, the warder isn't p2w. Although Gilliam's latest video points out some areas of concern which given the mantra "sustain is important" shows maybe some dev didn't get the memo. That with them receiving things like lifesteal when its removed from other classes just makes its design goals questionable. I don't think I've seen another game nerf current classes for a new one before. They usually come in on the overpowered side but usually its with a completely new design. Overall it seems to have the fewest junk skills which would be nice if it were true for all the others. It might change though and still end up making the nightblade look op but that would really take some concerted effort on their part.

Artis · May 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Magblade can do 36-37k dps on a dummy on the PTS while buffing two other dds with major slayer with 50% uptime with drain and orbs while using swallow soul or funnel health. So stop saying they're useless. But in trials they might be forced to be melee now as soul harvest is a melee ultimate. Or at least do one or the other. If they bring sorcs on par with the others it might become interesting.

And 34-35k on a ranged setup.

This number alone means absolutely nothing. If other classes do much more dps - then NBs are useless. With their lack of needed utility, they should have even higher DPS than others to make up for it.

Anyway, why use strife? Won't damage be higher with force pulse? Or does the difference in cost justify it? As in, using more strifes, while sorcs have to regen earlier with their force pulse?

STEVIL wrote: »

@Artis said:

"So what? So go take a hike. Are you saying that all the time I invested in my NB, all the practice, all the achievement - even the character name I love - are wasted and I just should be okay that I will never be able to play top-endgame?"

Hmmm... well... assuming you are talking like HM top-end not just normal or vet T/G PVE, if you had spent tons of times working up a stamsorc healer with all those achievements... should stamsorc class be buffed up as healer enough that they wound't be tossing you on your ear when they go for the top-score leaderboards hm too? Or even a mag sorc healer?

"EVEN if you had a point, that would mean they should be a pure pvp class. But then they should be much stronger than others to make up for their uselessness in pve. But then who would play any other class in pvp?"

Again, so binary... what they bring to pvp and pve is their additional stealth capability. That allows them greater control over situations in many cases. they can more easily pick their battles and escape from sudden changes. Add to that they are pretty effective at the general type of combat that goes on there.

key point is, combat is about more than "strength" and more about DPS, unless you are talking about fighting in a very small closet - like say PVE end game sustain stand-and-slug DPS.

Instead of trying to make nightblade into another flavorless slugger, why not work to getting more diverse top-end-game leaderboard stuff thats not about highest dps slugfest?

As for invisibility potions trumping the nb cloak... thats just silly. Cooldown is a killer.

That makes precisely 0.0000 sense. I'm not talking about stam sorc healer. I'm not talking about heavy armor DPS. I'm talking about taking a class and using everything available to maximize its efficiency.

No they aren't effective in general combat. Not at all. There's a reason you don't see them other than ganker, bombers, newbs or players who are stuck and have to grind that grand overlord. And guess what - no one said they won't be able to do anything but stealth.

No it's not a killer. Not in TG and DB quests. And what potion even with a cooldown can I drink to be able to DPS as others? You still haven't answered that question.

And sure thing. I don't mind if they change the content over buffing the class and make it so that a group needs a nightblade. But then you'll need to change everything - all trials and dungeons even world bosses to make sure no NB is feeling carried and can pull his weight. As it stands now, it's not realistically possible. What's possible is to simply bring their DPS on par with others.

I see you aren't playing a NB and have no idea what you are talking about. I'd assume you're a sorc who knows they can do everything NBs wanted to do, but better, and wants it to stay that way. Well, it's unfair to us. Some of us started in beta tests and pre-release, we saw that NB wasn't just about stealth and we knew we could be a good DPS. And we were until 1.6 or so. You can't just turn around and say "Nah you can't dps anymore" when we are 3 years in with most achievements completed.

emilyhyoyeon · May 2017

why not just change how armor and MR function in PVE so that there are some situations in which "physical dmg" is better than "magic damage" and vv

Vaoh · May 2017

Turns out Mag NB is finally balanced now

https://youtu.be/fU0cS4Rb5tY

@Alcast
Please create a thread once you finish testing all of the class specs to compare! Would help put stuff into perspective quite well and clear up lots of confusion.

Plus it'd help get my poor future Magicka Warden DPS some attention (Mag NB is getting all the Forum attention atm

)

Unfadingsilence · May 2017

So with magic NB I have flawless on it currently working on my 600k VMA run I have done every trial and I don't see any problems with NB I have been playing one for 3 years now currently I'm sitting around 200 days on my magic NB and I enjoy it over all my other toons maybe just maybe you need to L2P magic NB even with the last video alcast put out with his he is sitting at 35k DPS and he even said he is not an expert at playing one so just L2P NB and enjoy

overclocker303b14_ESO · May 2017

Magblade seems like it will be ok. I honestly think it should be capable of doing better than a magicka sorc since it requires a more complicated rotation, but at least it has a low ultimate ability that should pair well with the new trial sets.

If anything stamina for PVE still seems like it could be a little better.

getemshauna · May 2017

Magblade needs only Grim Focus rework, and class will be completly viable.

exeeter702 · May 2017

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I strongly feel crippling grasp should have a burst damage component added to it. The last tick of its duration should deal a respectable burst damage or deal it immediately if the dot is purged.

The added damage from cripple will put them up a little in a long sustained fight and the added burst will increase their ranged damage over time kiting game in PvP. And no I'm not talking about damage similar to curse obv.. But that game play style would vastly differentiate it from mag sorc.

If not that then do something else with agony. Either way, ranged magicka night blade perfectly encompasses a life stealing dot ranged mage, and the shadow priest, affliction lock, sith sorcerer, AoC necro etc etc dynamic is entirely absent in this game.

O_LYKOS · May 2017

I seen warden p2w so assumed you don't really know what you're talking about and stopped reading.

ArterionAU · May 2017

Wasn't that long ago mag sorcs were put on the shelf and the stam blades came out. Then Alduin ate the world via updates and a new kalpha started thus the new meta came in.

valkaneer2b14_ESO · May 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Turns out Mag NB is finally balanced now
https://youtu.be/fU0cS4Rb5tY

@Alcast
Please create a thread once you finish testing all of the class specs to compare! Would help put stuff into perspective quite well and clear up lots of confusion.

Plus it'd help get my poor future Magicka Warden DPS some attention (Mag NB is getting all the Forum attention atm )

How is that called balanced? We have yet to see the MagSorc or MagDK dps test. He does 3 one min test and you're calling that a closed book? I think we will see MagSorcs hitting 10 - 20k higher as they were hardly touched by the nerf. Not to mention that he has and 8% buff on those test that he forgot to disclose in the video. So his 35k parse should have been 8% lower.

Swifigames · May 2017

I don't get too involved in the PvP aspect of ESO at this moment in time as I'm just trying to enjoy the PvE portions of the title.
Though I do plan on eventually getting acquainted with the PvP stuff...I want to eat this meal one bite at a time.

That said...there are plenty of times I wish my Nightblade was more versatile and capable of doing more solo material in the game. I've always loved the Wood Elf race and my ESO main pick was no different. Nightblade Wood Elf huh? I've also always enjoyed using the bow in previous Elder Scrolls titles and this time was also no different.

But for the love of Sanity why is my bow wielding Wood Elf so weak in comparison to other players?
I get killed more often than I feel I should and some quests are just a pain in the *** to be completely honest.
I wish I had a tougher Nightblade

Why do I pick a Sorcerer, Templar or Dragonknight and see my damage output drowns my NB in comparison!?
I think it's absolutely ridiculous.

STEVIL · May 2017

Artis wrote: »

.

I see you aren't playing a NB and have no idea what you are talking about. I'd assume you're a sorc who knows they can do everything NBs wanted to do, but better, and wants it to stay that way. Well, it's unfair to us. Some of us started in beta tests and pre-release, we saw that NB wasn't just about stealth and we knew we could be a good DPS. And we were until 1.6 or so. You can't just turn around and say "Nah you can't dps anymore" when we are 3 years in with most achievements completed.

Double checking to see if you yourself have any idea what you are talking about...

12 characters... all way over cap...
5 are nb 3m 2s
3 are temp 2m 1s
3 are sorc 2m 1s
1 is dk m

2 orevious deletions were vet level dks

2 next will be wardens one mag one stam.

So looks like your conclusion here lives very much "up" to the quality of your others.

Look, i get it... you want nb to have top end leaderboard dps, plus its stealth for the non-dps benefits.,, i mean who wouldnt wsnt the options that gives in pvp or heists and also the top end slugger capability for the closet that is lesderboard group trisl dps?

But i really dont think your 45s cooldown potion leg is holding up the weight of your impassioned drive to get all that on one character.

templesus · May 2017

To proc war machine for the group.