MagSorc Issues: Necropotence vs BSW

Shivvies · May 2017

Hey guys!

First off, pretty casual player here so the answer to my questions may seem pretty obvious to you because you do not expect I'm probably missing something. In any case, here goes.

Been playing with a MagSorc for a while now and I was very happy with the somewhat recent changes in a bit of a selfish way. I ike that I'm able to pull decent numbers almost effortlessly in comparison with the other classes I play (certainly a bit of a l2p issue there as well when it is about stam ones I play). However, I'm hopelessly confused about the "Necro is obviously BiS where you can slot volatile" everyone seem to agree.

Now, I have been running around with these:

5 piece BSW + crafted inferno/lightning + 2 piece Ilambris (still no divines medium) or 2 piece Gorthdarr + 3 piece Willppower - all divines, major pieces golded, weapons golded. Undaunted Mettle 2 so either 3 (ilambris) or 6% (grothdarr) boosted.

and

5 piece Necro + crafted inferno/lightning + 2 piece Ilambris (still no divines medium) or 2 piece Gorthdarr + 3 piece Willppower - all divines, have tried with infused major pieces, major pieces golded, weapons golded. Undaunted Mettle 2 so either 3 (ilambris) or 6% (grothdarr) boosted.

I use a pet in either case, I use Mag/Health food, Thief Mundus (tried with Apprentice as well) and Spell Power pots with spell damage / crit / mag.

With BSW I have 40Kish Mag, keep rearming, fire blockade, liquid lightning, pet pulse, haunting curse up, Shooting Star when available, spam force and CF when procced.

With Necro I have almost 50Kish Mag, keep rearming, lightning blockade, liquid lightning, pet pulse, haunting curse up (tried with Prey, not much difference), Shooting Star when available, spam force and CF when procced.

With groups that have no basic buff / resource management to speak of, inexperienced tanks / healers where I have to avoid more stuff and keep up with boss placement, take a shield instead of rearming, etc. ie. 90% of PUG runs, there is not much difference but with better than average groups I parse about 15-20% higher with BSW.

Granted, I do not have access to a skelly yet and my "data" might be too little to tell but Necro, in comparison with BSW, seems pretty underwhelming to me.

What am I doing wrong? Could you help me figure this one out?

Cheers,

Shivs

Tasear · May 2017

asking for more nerfs! :'(

Shivvies · May 2017

Uh, au contraire.

I am saying that I don't see how Necro is OP in comparison with BSW.

This does not compare anything else to these sets so how am I asking for a nerf?

For all we know, I'm parsing much higher with an Undaunted Unweaver and a Torug's combo :P

Joking aside, I'm just trying to understand what might I be doing wrong. I'm fine with whatever the devs plan on doing short of "we decided to make this game's combat turn based" or something becauase it is the nature of MMOs, if there is not a tonne of things to work towards, it is burnout material.

Cheers,

Shivs

Waffennacht · May 2017

After update Necro is clearlybetter than BSW, and no need to farm Skelly any more

SickDuck · May 2017

Magsorc issues - 1st world issues

Other classes have 3rd world problems compared.

MartinDeShade · May 2017

40k magicka compared to 50k magicka? If 10.5 magicka is equal to 1 spell damage, that is damn near 1000 spell damage constantly. But even if you went with just was actually on the 5pc of 4000 magicka plus ideal race of 10% extra magicka to make it 4400, you are looking at nearly 420 spell damage constrantly compared to 600 spell damage at most 66% of the time(or an average of 396 over the time). So they should be comparable only if you can have perfect uptime, which nobody does. You will be likely to get 60% uptime(380) on a DK, on a sorc you will likely get 55%(330). However more spell damage doesn't increase the damage of pets, so that it becomes an instant no brainer to use Necro if you have a pet. Heck some NBs are using Necro with their Shadows just for the extra magicka.

Of course the new pts has BSW dropping to 520 with a lower proc chance. It will be better for many to just go with Julian, Netch, or Sun with the new patch.

Shivvies · May 2017

That is my math as well, I was wondering why I can't make it happen is all. Honestly, I was hoping for something like (pretty random) "oh, if you have Haunting in your rotation, it is bad with Necro" or something that I completely missed.

The difference is more like 7K Mag (42K vs 49K or thereabouts) but the math is still in favour of Necro. Hence the "why I can't make it work?"

Cheers...

Waffennacht · May 2017

Automatically dps difference between Lightning blockade and fire blockade could also change illambris proc chance?

Shivvies · May 2017

I'm checking procs, to be honest, using Combat Metrics and it seems I have 50-60 uptime on bsw and the ilambris procs are comparable on both cases...

Don't get me wrong, I'm talking single target here, for aoe Necro performs better ime but there must be something I'm missing...

Thanks for trying though,

Cheers...

ATEK302 · May 2017

I don't have undaunted mettle or the Magik controller unlocked, I have not got illambris set yet either. I have 5pcs necro.
I do a heavy attack build. It seems lackluster, but it gets the job done.
With food I'm at 42.5k mag.
Depending on how well our healer is, I run bound aegis over twilight. If healer can't keep up, I bring in twilight for off heals.

Then I drop to 40k roughly.

I keep down lightning blockade, liquid lightning, pet pulse, and heavy attack. Drop elemental rage when I have it. Hit hardened ward to make the healers job easier.

This will likely be the way builds work for sustain after patch.

Shivvies · May 2017

I only use the HA builds in vMA to be perfectly honest - with stuff that boosts HA as well. Yeah, both gets the job done as well as Seducer/Julianos gets the job done. I do not really have any problems with getting the job done but I seem to be missing something...

JKith · May 2017

Try putting 75pts into thaumaturge and use shock elements of blockade instead of fire and you should see quite a dps boost with Necro,.. you can't do that with BSW because you need fire to proc it. In a well coordinated group fire is better, but solo or in uncoordinated group shock is better.

Shivvies · May 2017

JKith wrote: »

Try putting 75pts into thaumaturge and use shock elements of blockade instead of fire and you should see quite a dps boost with Necro,.. you can't do that with BSW because you need fire to proc it. In a well coordinated group fire is better, but solo or in uncoordinated group shock is better.

I am already doing that. I did detail that I have Blockade of Storms in Necro setup - although I did not say that I have Exploiter which I should have. Thanks though.

Cheers,

Shivs

WarpigFunk · May 2017

1. If you're running a pet - morph your curse to daedric prey

2. 4000 magicka = roughly 400 spell power. With necro thats a constant 400 spell power of damage, plus more mag for sustain, plus buffed pet damage with daedric prey. With BSW you're getting 600 spell power, but only on proc - roughly 60% uptime with mag sorc best case (roughly equating to 360 constant spell power worth of damage).

In short - if you're not seeing measurably higher damage using necro/ pet over BSW - then you're doing it wrong.

Front bar- lightning
force pulse, daedric prey, crystal frags, volatile familiar, inner light - Meteor
Back Bar- inferno
Elemenatal Blockade, Liquid Lightning, Ward, Volatile Familiar, Execute - Destro Ulti
Rotation:
LL->Wall->Pet->barswap->Daedric Prey->Pulse/Fragx3->barswap->repeat->execute at 20%. ultis and potions on cooldown.

Thats 40-42k DPS single target With Inferno Back bar / Lightning front bar, add 3-5k if you use lightning back bar.

When soloing use lightning back bar - in trials, (or dungeons with magdks) use inferno back bar.

Shivvies · May 2017

Yeah, question was what I am doing wrong

OK, my experience is probably skewed with the groups I run with. I'll try to work this build better - this is almost exactly my bar and my rotation btw, the only difference is I'm pretty meh at weaving/cancelling and 30ish is my high point without 100% uptime warhorn on a good day.

Thanks for the help,

Guess it's a matter of concentrating on this build and figureing it out.

Cheers,

Shivs

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

Shivvies wrote: »

Uh, au contraire.

I am saying that I don't see how Necro is OP in comparison with BSW.

This does not compare anything else to these sets so how am I asking for a nerf? For all we know, I'm parsing much higher with an Undaunted Unweaver and a Torug's combo :P

Joking aside, I'm just trying to understand what might I be doing wrong. I'm fine with whatever the devs plan on doing short of "we decided to make this game's combat turn based" or something becauase it is the nature of MMOs, if there is not a tonne of things to work towards, it is burnout material.

Cheers,

Shivs

RNG. BSW can proc Ilambris, Ilambris can proc BSW. So that's part of it. Proc set ~ 'free damage.' You're also getting higher single target courtesy of fire staff passive.

Necro generally OP because you have +1000 effective spell damage 100% of the time, vs +600 max of 66% of the time. You're getting higher AoE courtesy of lightning staff passive.

The stave differences will have an effect based on what you're fighting, so that comes into play (mobs, single target boss, target skelly?)

Assuming your rotation is otherwise the same, it probably comes down to luck of the proc and luck of the crit.

JKith · May 2017

What's your DPS self-buffed on a target skell? I get 35k+ self buffed with ultimate (using potions) and 28k+ without self buffs and without ultimate. (which I use sometimes as I test so that I don't waste too many potions since they are expensive!)... This translates to roughly 40k-45k+ single target dps with group buffs (depending on what group buffs of course)

This is a recent phenomenon for me as I was struggling for a while to break 30k+ self buffed on target skell but with the below setup I was easily able to do it..

5pc Necro
3pc Willpower
2pc Illambris

Rotation: (Light attack weave everything it really helps alot!)

Fire staff bar:
Elemental Drain
Bar Swap

Shock Staff bar:
Pet -> Prey -> Blockade -> Destructive Clench

Bar Swap

Fire Staff bar:
Liquid Lighting

Bar Swap

Shock staff Bar:
One Heavy Attack

REPEAT

use Shooting Star and Spell Power potions on cooldown.

I wouldn't categorize myself as a very good player,.. probably average or slightly above average, so getting 30k self buffed should be relatively easily achievable for you with the correct setup. A combate metrics DPS parse would help qutie a bit in identifying anything you're possibly doing wrong.

Here is my DPS parse below if it can help you any.

GrigorijMalahevich · May 2017

Next patch Necro will destroy BSW on a sorc. It is even ridiculous to compare them.

JKith · May 2017

Valera Progib wrote: »

Next patch Necro will destroy BSW on a sorc. It is even ridiculous to compare them.

For Sorcs,... Exactly this,... BSW will probably be best for DK's now.