End of Dual Wielding Mag builds?

Absalon · May 2017

So, I've seen many ppl talking about the need of constantly heavy attacking on Morrowind, I mainly a dual wielding magplar, and if this happens to be true will probably be the end of this play style, since heavy attacking this way won't help a magicka class. Just want to know if I should already start digging my spinner's sharp swords grave.

kuro-dono · May 2017

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

Biro123 · May 2017

Only need those heavy attacks if you don't wanna switch your gear around to add the sustain...

Basically Zos added a choice - Use sustain sets/enchants and not have to heavy attack - or have more damage stats/sets but have to weave in heavies for resources. I'm sure one will turn out being 'Meta' for trials DPS - so unless you're doing that - go with whatever you want.

I've just switched from 2dmg sets to 1 dmg/1 sustain and do *slightly* better than on live for sustain (ofc damage is less - but then, that's the point of nerfs..)

GrigorijMalahevich · May 2017

Get lich, use some cost reduction/recovery glyphs and you are ok.

As I understand you are not using resto staff on back bar - in that case you just pickup lich jewellery and s&b on back bar - no more problems.

Try to play your build in Azura on live - if will suffer extra constitution nerf (if you use heavy) and/or suffer extra nerf to light armor cost reduction.

Both my magdk and magplar already have lich s&b on back bar - if you can drink potion when lich procs, you are just laughing.

P.S. if you are using Elusive Mist as escape - it is better to use "Vestments of the Warlock" instead of Lich.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

Right. It's never made sense that weapons you never use have any effect on your numbers at all.

OP, no, the general consensus is that you don't get to just stack SD if you expect to sustain. I suppose you could swap out your dual w/a 2 piece that gives regen, but that's still likely not going to be enough.

As an aside, though, there should be an equal number of arcane weapon option(s) (Restro hardly qualifies for damage purposes, which is what weapons are for.) as there are stam/physical weapon options.

RedJoker · May 2017

I don't I still have lots of fun playing my dual wield sorc. For Morrowind, I plan to switch to recovey drink, change spell damage enchant(s) to recovery, and keep rocking Lich. Will I be playing a meta build? No, but like always I expect to have lots of fun.

RedJoker · May 2017

RedJoker wrote: »

I don't I still have lots of fun playing my dual wield sorc.

NiclasFridholm · May 2017

If you use 5 Moondancer you will be fine, tested after char copies on PTS paired with BSW and MSA BB. 2 sweeps in rotation with 1 HA on BB after applying dots when I had sustain problems, if you get the "right" MD buff its business as usual with no HA! Problem as I see is the new trial isnt very Melee friendly. But maybe Its just l2p from my side.

Qbiken · May 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

So just because it doesn´t fit your "immersion/lore/depiction" of how stuff "SHOULD BE USED" (so tired of these *** arguments....eso is not every other mmo, deal with it) it maktes perfect sense to nerf it???...right

Just going to throw my logic reasoning out the window really Quick....brb

and rage ≠ right direction.......

Jamascus · May 2017

Absalon wrote: »

So, I've seen many ppl talking about the need of constantly heavy attacking on Morrowind, I mainly a dual wielding magplar, and if this happens to be true will probably be the end of this play style, since heavy attacking this way won't help a magicka class. Just want to know if I should already start digging my spinner's sharp swords grave.

Most likely yes, I have healed with two swords since launch. It's never made sense that you not only get an inherent bonus to spell damage while dual wielding but also the twin blade and blunt passive increases healing as well...I will probably be going back to resto and s&b for healing on my Templar. :'(

stevepdodson_ESO888 · May 2017

let's just say "Battlemage"

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

So just because it doesn´t fit your "immersion/lore/depiction" of how stuff "SHOULD BE USED" (so tired of these *** arguments....eso is not every other mmo, deal with it) it maktes perfect sense to nerf it???...right

Just going to throw my logic reasoning out the window really Quick....brb

and rage ≠ right direction.......

First: Calm the **** down
2: It's not about immersion or lore, it's about being semi-intuitive. Makes about as much sense as holding a pumpkin in your hand would increase your damage output.
C: They're not nerfing it - it works (or rather doesn't, since you don't actually ever use the weapons) the same as it always has(n't).
IV: I find it ironic that on one hand you're arguing this as okay because "eso is not every other mmo," and moments later you're somehow implying that "logic and reasoning" is involved.

It either makes sense, or it doesn't, and this never has.

Absalon · May 2017

Thank you all for replying. Just for the record, I'm running 2 Skoria / 5 Rattle / 5 Spinner ( Dual Wielding + S/B). Infused with Prismatic Defense on big parts, and 2 divine and 2 imp on small parts, all with magicka gliphs. Thief mundus, Immovable potions and damage health poisons. It has been a bless. Just an amazing set up for magplars.

Though I'm sad this won't work any longer, I'm quite excited to work on new options ahead. I'm not sure if swaping spinner for lich or warlock will share sinergy with rattlecage, since will probably lack spell penetration. So, I'll most likely go for BSW + Lich, S/B on the back and destro on the front, and hope for the best. Maybe I'll even go after a maelstrom destro on the long run if I got the time and patience.

Aliyavana · May 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

Qbiken wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

So just because it doesn´t fit your "immersion/lore/depiction" of how stuff "SHOULD BE USED" (so tired of these *** arguments....eso is not every other mmo, deal with it) it maktes perfect sense to nerf it???...right

Just going to throw my logic reasoning out the window really Quick....brb

and rage ≠ right direction.......

Just because we aren't always wearing robes and a staff, clearly a cliche.... doesn't mean your not a caster. .. Elder scrolls doesn't follow the traditional spellcaster formula and shouldn't

Lexxypwns · May 2017

DW sorc and magplar are still fine next patch. DK and NB... idk.

Magplar sustain is easy mode in pvp on live and even with the cost reduction changes you can still get by fairly well, just drop 1 damage set for lich (jewels, 1 armor, back bar destro or resto). The build I'm running for magplar next patch has very little investment into regen and still isn't using a sustain set, infinite sustain and nearly 4k spell damage.

Koolio · May 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

You mean ice staff tanking?

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

Have you ever heard of a Battlemage?

Dual wield casting makes perfect sense in term of immersion/lore. Also, Sword and Shield casting.

Battlemage is love, battlemage is life.

NeillMcAttack · May 2017

Tbf, I don't think it was ever intended for dual wield to be used by magicka toons. ZOS never mentioned it, but the simple facts that, heavy attacks restore stam, all abilities cost stam, light and heavy attack damage doesn't scale with mag, would convince one that it was unintended. But after seeing people liked to play it, and why wouldn't they, free spell damage, they decided not to change it.

Now though, it's not so much that they are changing it, but I believe they are certainly getting back to a place they feel is more balanced and just, well makes more sense (not in a logical kinda way, but in a game mechanics kind of way).

Dual swords will still be great for bursty PvP builds, but long drawn out raid bosses where sustain matters again? Probably not!

Zardayne · May 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

lol. dual wield casting never made any sense anyway. so thats pretty perfect nerf.

zos finally man upping. i hope they keep it going like this. atleast the rage means all going right direction.

I agree the dual wielding for casters was pretty dumb...

Smmokkee · May 2017

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

let's just say "Battlemage"

Yeah but does it make sense for a battlemage to have all his attributes into Magicka and then be dual wielding swords?

The spell sword, battlemage archetype should be hybrid build not full magicka. These threads just make me think a lot of the people never wanted to move on from the old metas.

Lexxypwns · May 2017

Smmokkee wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

let's just say "Battlemage"

Yeah but does it make sense for a battlemage to have all his attributes into Magicka and then be dual wielding swords?

The spell sword, battlemage archetype should be hybrid build not full magicka. These threads just make me think a lot of the people never wanted to move on from the old metas.

mechanics don't allow for proper hybrids, they do allow you to use a non-traditional weapon on magika builds creating a battlemage/spell sword feel, this is amplified by the heavy armor meta.

Sallington · May 2017

It's a big nerf for Jabplars, because now we can't run 2/5/5 sets.

I mean, we CAN, but sustain will be crap and we'll probably get even worse DPS that way.

Lexxypwns · May 2017

Sallington wrote: »

It's a big nerf for Jabplars, because now we can't run 2/5/5 sets.

you absolutely can in pvp. Magplar is very very very very strong in morrowind, arguably the best magika sustain, good burst, good heals, and you can still DW.

Lord_Eomer · May 2017

Absalon wrote: »

So, I've seen many ppl talking about the need of constantly heavy attacking on Morrowind, I mainly a dual wielding magplar, and if this happens to be true will probably be the end of this play style, since heavy attacking this way won't help a magicka class. Just want to know if I should already start digging my spinner's sharp swords grave.

Its gonna die with Morrowind!

Mag Gankers (if still any) may still use for burst damage!

Lexxypwns · May 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Absalon wrote: »

So, I've seen many ppl talking about the need of constantly heavy attacking on Morrowind, I mainly a dual wielding magplar, and if this happens to be true will probably be the end of this play style, since heavy attacking this way won't help a magicka class. Just want to know if I should already start digging my spinner's sharp swords grave.

Its gonna die with Morrowind!

Mag Gankers (if still any) may still use for burst damage!

You're wrong, sir.

Magplar and magsorc are both very strong with DW in morrowind. Magplar actually probably doesn't need a staff of any kind, but destro and resto ults are both so appealing that I can't see not using one.

Lord_Eomer · May 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Absalon wrote: »

So, I've seen many ppl talking about the need of constantly heavy attacking on Morrowind, I mainly a dual wielding magplar, and if this happens to be true will probably be the end of this play style, since heavy attacking this way won't help a magicka class. Just want to know if I should already start digging my spinner's sharp swords grave.

Its gonna die with Morrowind!

Mag Gankers (if still any) may still use for burst damage!

You're wrong, sir.

Magplar and magsorc are both very strong with DW in morrowind. Magplar actually probably doesn't need a staff of any kind, but destro and resto ults are both so appealing that I can't see not using one.

U nerd heavy attack for sustain, dual wield is not gonna give u longer runs!

Lexxypwns · May 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Absalon wrote: »

So, I've seen many ppl talking about the need of constantly heavy attacking on Morrowind, I mainly a dual wielding magplar, and if this happens to be true will probably be the end of this play style, since heavy attacking this way won't help a magicka class. Just want to know if I should already start digging my spinner's sharp swords grave.

Its gonna die with Morrowind!

Mag Gankers (if still any) may still use for burst damage!

You're wrong, sir.

Magplar and magsorc are both very strong with DW in morrowind. Magplar actually probably doesn't need a staff of any kind, but destro and resto ults are both so appealing that I can't see not using one.

U nerd heavy attack for sustain, dual wield is not gonna give u longer runs!

For pvp, I can sustain a 10+ minute duel on magplar and sorc with no staff heavies.

The pvp meta isn't heavy attack builds, thats a pve thing. The pvp meta is build enough sustain to survive without excessive heavy attacks.

Beardimus · May 2017

It's annoying that the have given Nerf over Nerf to Dual world (for Magika builds) there's no reason to attack a now niche play style

Sure some people don't like the idea of a mage with swords, who cares, you don't need to run it. It's niche now with the reduction in damage vs staff so why wipe it out totally. It's annoying.

Wizards with wands is dull, and with the lag on bar swap much harder to tell what bar u are on!

But in answer to your post, there will.be ways around it if you want to , for aure.

Lexxypwns · May 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

It's annoying that the have given Nerf over Nerf to Dual world (for Magika builds) there's no reason to attack a now niche play style

Sure some people don't like the idea of a mage with swords, who cares, you don't need to run it. It's niche now with the reduction in damage vs staff so why wipe it out totally. It's annoying.

Wizards with wands is dull, and with the lag on bar swap much harder to tell what bar u are on!

But in answer to your post, there will.be ways around it if you want to , for aure.

They didn't nerf DW in pvp this patch. They made you find ways to sustain outside of just CP, you can choose to look at that as "I need a staff for heavy attacks" or you can look at it as "what mechanics are available to allow me to keep this crazy damage and still sustain" and then you don't have to lose tons of DPS wasting time weaving heavy staff attacks.

Skills are the only reliable way to burst people, so design a build where you can still consistently spam abilities without needing to heavy attack and you'll be much more successful than making a build where you have to heavy attack regularly. Heavy attacks are already super unreliable if they're not resto, dw, or lightning staff.

Resipsa131 · May 2017

OR you could not change your rotation or item set and simply run Max Health +Magicka Regen.

Masel · May 2017

NiclasFridholm wrote: »

If you use 5 Moondancer you will be fine, tested after char copies on PTS paired with BSW and MSA BB. 2 sweeps in rotation with 1 HA on BB after applying dots when I had sustain problems, if you get the "right" MD buff its business as usual with no HA! Problem as I see is the new trial isnt very Melee friendly. But maybe Its just l2p from my side.

Moondancer works on all classes now, best on Magblades due to the 15% regen passive. You get about 1800 regen with only MD lunar blessing, minor and major intellect and the refreshing shadows passive. I double bar vMA Staffs now and put a restore magicka poison on the front bar. Great sustain, great damage. 5 MD, 2 light monster set pieces (head with health enchant), 3 willpower with spell damage enchant, double vMA Staffs (one lightning one fire). This needs a lot of luck to have both vMA Staffs in sharpened though...