Jacozilla wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

Yes, it is against the TOS to tape down the trigger or to use something like a rubber band to accomplish the same task. ZOS has posted this clearly. Any actions occurring not by your own direct control is an issue.

To be fair, I don't see ZOS going after someone because they automate the issue of a mouse down event with some means to continue it indefinitely until a mouse up event is passed.

They are against unattended play - meaning regardless how you issue the commands, if you are the one actively initiating and stopping them, that is regular play. If you are not, then that is unattended play and if caught - more likely to be enforced as TOS violation.

If automated mouse down events were the sole trigger, every handicap, arthritis, repetitive stress, etc player using built in OS supported alternative input devices or controls would be banned. Which they are not.

for example, right out of the box, Windows supports changing your mouse at any time so that a mouse left or right click can be pressed just once and it is held down automatically for you, until you press it again to give the mouse up signal. This is for people who have any sort of accessability issue that makes it easier to use the mouse this way vs continuously hold mouse button down mode.

So taping the mouse down is not needed, just enable what every operating system I know of provides as matter of course. The way the TOS is written, it allows ZOS to basically ban any player for any reason, at any time. But I don't see them going after some who is actively there, attending their play, but using alternate accessability controls.

*which they can't detect anyways because all that can be tracked is the mouse down and up events, not how those events were passed to the server.

It is very easy to tell the difference between someone who rubberbanded versus someone with that function on. If someone has that function on and is playing the game, they will be moving and capable of responding to player chat. Simple as that. So... you'll still be banned no matter the story you make up if you're rubberbanding.

Good thing you are not ZOS.

Because I've never rubber banded, don't use Microsoft's alternative mouse controls because I don't need it, but I don't move at all until the dolmen ends.

I sit in my daedric minefield and just let the mobs come to me If solo or with very few people, and if with zerg no point moving as things die so fast anyways.

What you are describing as the issue, which I agree with, is players who don't EVER move. As in before the dolmen, after the dolmen, they are parked at same spot forever basically. That CAN be detected - simple x, y, z co-ords of your character at same position for multiple # of dolmen spawns. Fair enough.

What CANT be detected is precisely what I stated - a mouse down event passed to the server via a player actively holding regular mouse down, via alternative control function where mouse down is automatically continued until same button is clicked again, or primitive rubber band vs software methods doing same thing.

My sole contention was that if automated mouse down events were the criteria, then players who were not doing unattended play would be caught up in the net. Which again, is a good thing you are not ZOS. Inquisition much?

lordrichter wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

If you move after a dolmen, then you're obviously not rubberbanding and therefore should not be subjected to the restrictions of automated play that is on the TOS.

If the player is using automation to play the game, it does not matter if they are there or not.

Jacozilla wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

To be fair, I don't see ZOS going after someone because they automate the issue of a mouse down event with some means to continue it indefinitely until a mouse up event is passed.

They are against unattended play - meaning regardless how you issue the commands, if you are the one actively initiating and stopping them, that is regular play. If you are not, then that is unattended play and if caught - more likely to be enforced as TOS violation.

If automated mouse down events were the sole trigger, every handicap, arthritis, repetitive stress, etc player using built in OS supported alternative input devices or controls would be banned. Which they are not.

for example, right out of the box, Windows supports changing your mouse at any time so that a mouse left or right click can be pressed just once and it is held down automatically for you, until you press it again to give the mouse up signal. This is for people who have any sort of accessability issue that makes it easier to use the mouse this way vs continuously hold mouse button down mode.

So taping the mouse down is not needed, just enable what every operating system I know of provides as matter of course. The way the TOS is written, it allows ZOS to basically ban any player for any reason, at any time. But I don't see them going after some who is actively there, attending their play, but using alternate accessability controls.

*which they can't detect anyways because all that can be tracked is the mouse down and up events, not how those events were passed to the server.

Yeah, they can, and do, go after players for just holding down the mouse button, or holding the trigger. No matter how they are doing it. Even if they are sitting right there watching a moving while they are playing. You might not see it, but we certainly hear about it, from time to time, in the forum.

Don't do it.

You seem to be taking my quote out of context.

The very first sentence is the key ---> "They are against unattended play - ...."

So I agree, any form of unattended play, however you issue the controls, is not only against TOS but just common sense to ban. Fair enough.

My sole point was the distinction between issuing automated commands while you actively play and are attending to the game session, vs. unattended play which includes the situations you described.

Actually, your very first sentence is "To be fair, I don't see ZOS going after someone because they automate the issue of a mouse down event with some means to continue it indefinitely until a mouse up event is passed."

That is not good advice to be giving.

No, they do not like unattended play, but that is not the real issue. The reason that unattended play is a bad thing is because to actually play the game while away, the player has to use some form of method that automates the playing of the game. It is actually this that is the violation. Playing unattended is a side effect that makes it easier to detect.

"Users are forbidden from using any unapproved third party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax."

"Automating your character in any way, including placing tape or a rubber-band on a console controller, is considered a violation of our Terms of Service, and action may be taken on your account. You must be actively controlling your character."