Imvoracious wrote: »I played a game called Asherons call for 16 years on Darktide which was an open world pvp/pve server. All pvp geared characters could complete end game pve content. It can be achieved but it takes time, lots of tweaking and lots of trial and error.
...PvP everywhere is possible even with PvE players - but it takes a system like in EVE online.
Splitting PvE and PvP balance is the worst idea one could ever implement.
Enough games prove it is possible to have both and not have to resort to lame stuff like needing gear/skills specific to 1 play style.
Rainwhisper wrote: »
Splitting PvE and PvP balance is the worst idea one could ever implement.
Enough games prove it is possible to have both and not have to resort to lame stuff like needing gear/skills specific to 1 play style.
Rainwhisper wrote: »
Splitting PvE and PvP balance is the worst idea one could ever implement.
Enough games prove it is possible to have both and not have to resort to lame stuff like needing gear/skills specific to 1 play style.
It's not the same fighting against a player with 20k hp than fighting a PVE Boss with 5 mill hp but no recovery and closed mechanics... right?
If im not interested at all on fighting another players, cause it's not what i enjoy or what i look for on this game? why should I suffer the consequences of the balances aimed to that kind of game? It's not fair. So no, it's not the worst idea at all to separate these 2 environments.
Rainwhisper wrote: »
Rainwhisper wrote: »
Rainwhisper wrote: »
"Can you PvP in the game?"
"Yes and no. It's an option, but there's no PvP in it".
Splitting PvE and PvP balance is the worst idea one could ever implement.
Enough games prove it is possible to have both and not have to resort to lame stuff like needing gear/skills specific to 1 play style.
It's not the same fighting against a player with 20k hp than fighting a PVE Boss with 5 mill hp but no recovery and closed mechanics... right?
If im not interested at all on fighting another players, cause it's not what i enjoy or what i look for on this game? why should I suffer the consequences of the balances aimed to that kind of game? It's not fair. So no, it's not the worst idea at all to separate these 2 environments.
Because its one game. and whatever you like it or not pvp is part of the game.
Please, enough with the PVP in open world PVE zones, that thread was already closed, we don't need another
Rainwhisper wrote: »
Rainwhisper wrote: »Please, enough with the PVP in open world PVE zones, that thread was already closed, we don't need another
To be clear, I am not talking about open-world PvP. I am talking about the mythical unicorn of a single playstyle for both PvP and PvE, something that was mentioned in the most recent livestream as part of the underlying ESO development philosophy (see my opening quote, above).
Nice to have the option, a pvp'er has to do PvE whether they want to or not. The rebalancing issues Zos is doing are geared at PvE as much as PvP because they don't want players solo'ing vet group content and having builds that don't factor in survivability and utility.Splitting PvE and PvP balance is the worst idea one could ever implement.
Enough games prove it is possible to have both and not have to resort to lame stuff like needing gear/skills specific to 1 play style.
It's not the same fighting against a player with 20k hp than fighting a PVE Boss with 5 mill hp but no recovery and closed mechanics... right?
If im not interested at all on fighting another players, cause it's not what i enjoy or what i look for on this game? why should I suffer the consequences of the balances aimed to that kind of game? It's not fair. So no, it's not the worst idea at all to separate these 2 environments.
Because its one game. and whatever you like it or not pvp is part of the game.
It's not part of it since if i dont want to participate i just dont take part in it. It wont affect my progression in the game at all, and i can enjoy the other 90% of it which is not pvp.
As the OP just mentioned, is just an option.
Rainwhisper wrote: »
PvP gear and equipment translates quite well to vMA. PvP gear and builds can easily translate to PvE, they just aren't optimized because the have built in utility for survivability. An optimized PvE build is pretty bad in PvP for lacking that surivivability so maybe the issue is PvE doesn't require enough of player builds?
Imvoracious wrote: »I played a game called Asherons call for 16 years on Darktide which was an open world pvp/pve server. All pvp geared characters could complete end game pve content. It can be achieved but it takes time, lots of tweaking and lots of trial and error.
Rainwhisper wrote: »From Rich Lambert on the livestream: "We want one cohesive game. We want you to be able to understand how combat works in PvE, and have that translate into PvP...It's not a completely different experience."
I have played nearly every MMO since Ultima Online, and several of the text MUD's before that. One thing I've observed in over twenty years of online gaming is that the goal of creating a unified PvE and PvP experience always comes up, and never works.
I wish developers would let go of that particular Holy Grail.
PvE players want predictable fight mechanics based on an established sets of skills/spells/formula. This grows out of the RPG identity of MMORPG's, where ultimately it's a combination of math and player choices, based on established patterns, that determines success.
PvP players want unpredictable fight mechanics that require them to memorize a number of rock-paper-scissors combinations for beating specific opponents. They want the risk and challenge of possibly hugely imbalanced fights, in either direction. The playstyle is radically different, and grows more out of the MMO identity of an MMORPG, where online, action/combat games are based primarily on player skill and team co-ordination.
While I recognize that end-game, group PvE content adds elements of close co-operation and memorization, ultimately the playstyle is still different from that of PvP, particularly in terms of the unpredictability of the opposing players' actions, and the "gotcha" combinations of attacks they will choose. In addition, end-game PvE encounters are carefully-tuned for balance, something impossible in PvP because the developers generally cannot control the number of players involved, or their skill level.
Consequently, the experience of fighting another player will never feel like the experience of fighting an AI-controlled opponent. PvP players will spend hours carefully selecting combinations of armor, skills, and attacks - then practicing them - to ensure deadly combinations against various classes and builds. PvE players will focus on choosing the skills that either match their roleplaying vision for their character, or optimize their ability to accomplish specific tasks, or seem like a fun way to play for a while, knowing that the stakes aren't terribly high.
Neither playstyle is "better," but trying to establish a system that allows a player to seamlessly move between the two is never going to happen. It will always feel like two completely different games.
At some level, I think ZOS understands this, since as a PvE player, I can completely ignore armor designed for protection from critical strikes. I wish their entire development philosophy, however, reflected this reality.