Warden - Free to cast ultimate generation, why?

Zvorgin · April 2017

Apologies if this has already been posted but when reviewing the 3.0.1 patch notes I noticed they made the following change to the Animal Companion passive.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Warden
Animal Companions
Savage Beast: This passive ability now generates Ultimate when you cast an Animal Companion ability, instead of when you deal damage with an Animal Companion ability.
Developer Comments:
This change will make generating Ultimate from this passive more reliable for Wardens, as it can now proc off non-damaging Animal Companion abilities such as Betty Netch and Falcon’s Swiftness.

Ultimate on cast of a companion? That seems pretty OP but then one would assume the skills have a high costs because they are summoning skills, but then I went back and looked at the Warden skill line and noticed Betty Netch:

Betty Netch - Call a Betty Netch that restores Magicka over 22 seconds. Gain Major Sorcery, increasing Spell Damage by 20% over 24 seconds. This ability has no cost.
Blue Betty - Call a Betty Netch that restores Magicka over 25 seconds. Gain Major Sorcery, increasing Spell Damage by 20% over 27 seconds. When activated, removes 1 negative effect. This ability has no cost.
Bull Netch – Call a Bull Netch that restores Stamina over 25 seconds. Grants Major Brutality, increasing weapon damage by 20% over 27 seconds, and Major Sorcery, increasing Spell Damage by 20% over 27 seconds. This ability has no cost.

1) I really hope that you have to be in combat to cast one of these abilities or the Warden just got free non-combat ultimate generation
2) Why does a skill that gives Major Sorcery / Brutality have no cost?
3) Free ability with resource regeneration? This goes completely in the face of the changes to CP and other class skills (Helping Hands, Battle Roar, Shards, Repentance) which were given massive sustain nerfs this patch
4) The buff timers are 25 and 27 seconds, these are longer than most other class self buff abilities by a good margin (other than Igneous weapons, but it doesn't return resources or generate ultimate)

As it reads, this is a spammable, no cost ability that generates, resources, major damage buffs and now ultimate on cast. What?!

I'm a console player so can't login to see it function on the PTS, this is also not under NDA since it's straight from the warden skill lines and the patch notes.

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/04/13/warden-guide-skill-lines-and-abilities
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/335600/pts-patch-notes-v3-0-0/p1

This can't really be how the skill was designed?

Kay1 · April 2017

It cost 40$.

Here you have your answer.

AzraelKrieg · April 2017

As stated on ESO Live I think 3 weeks ago when they were going through the animal skill line for the warden, the bear isn't summoned via normal means. So while yes it is generating ultimate from using skills from the class line it isn't helping getting that bear up. And besides, Nightblade and Dragonknight both have passives that generate ult on skill activation and from using a potion.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2017

I've got no problem with it. They pay the cost, it only happens every so many seconds, etc.

Zvorgin · April 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

As stated on ESO Live I think 3 weeks ago when they were going through the animal skill line for the warden, the bear isn't summoned via normal means. So while yes it is generating ultimate from using skills from the class line it isn't helping getting that bear up. And besides, Nightblade and Dragonknight both have passives that generate ult on skill activation and from using a potion.

This isn't about the bear, it's about the free to cast Betty Netch pet ability. Nightblade and Dragonknight passives don't work outside of combat to my knowledge. Casting Betty Netch (for free - zero resources used) will enable to warden to get and maintain the Bear Ult.

Zvorgin · April 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

It cost 40$.

Here you have your answer.

I really hope that isn't the reason, but doesn't seem like it would be that far outside the approach Zos has been taking lately.

Zvorgin · April 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I've got no problem with it. They pay the cost, it only happens every so many seconds, etc.

What cost are they paying? The ability doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina to cast.

Just not sure outside of cast time what cost they could be paying. I'd gladly have a skill with a cast time for all the benefits the warden is getting from this skill.

Nelson_Rebel · April 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

As stated on ESO Live I think 3 weeks ago when they were going through the animal skill line for the warden, the bear isn't summoned via normal means. So while yes it is generating ultimate from using skills from the class line it isn't helping getting that bear up. And besides, Nightblade and Dragonknight both have passives that generate ult on skill activation and from using a potion.

This isn't about the bear, it's about the free to cast Betty Netch pet ability. Nightblade and Dragonknight passives don't work outside of combat to my knowledge. Casting Betty Netch (for free - zero resources used) will enable to warden to get and maintain the Bear Ult.

Sorry to tell you man, but....The bear is also free. Is costs no ultimate to use

Half of all warden skills seem to cost nothing and are all free spammable casts

The warden is broken AF. Just re roll to warden.

As deltia said if you want to be relevant in 2017, get out your credit card

NeillMcAttack · April 2017

The passive won't work out of combat. Just like the DK's earthen heart passive doesn't. So if you are spamming a Betty Netch summon in combat, then, well, that will be hilarious.

NeillMcAttack · April 2017

The passive won't work out of combat. Just like the DK's earthen heart passive doesn't. So if you are spamming a Betty Netch summon in combat, then, well, that will be hilarious.

Zvorgin · April 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

As stated on ESO Live I think 3 weeks ago when they were going through the animal skill line for the warden, the bear isn't summoned via normal means. So while yes it is generating ultimate from using skills from the class line it isn't helping getting that bear up. And besides, Nightblade and Dragonknight both have passives that generate ult on skill activation and from using a potion.

This isn't about the bear, it's about the free to cast Betty Netch pet ability. Nightblade and Dragonknight passives don't work outside of combat to my knowledge. Casting Betty Netch (for free - zero resources used) will enable to warden to get and maintain the Bear Ult.

Sorry to tell you man, but....The bear is also free. Is costs no ultimate to use

Half of all warden skills seem to cost nothing and are all free spammable casts

The warden is broken AF. Just re roll to warden.

As deltia said if you want to be relevant in 2017, get out your credit card

Wow, I didn't realize how broken the Warden is... so basically they get free to cast pets and buffs and then get to use all their resources on spammable skills and pet healing? Welcome to Wardenwind release.

Flaminir · April 2017

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The passive won't work out of combat. Just like the DK's earthen heart passive doesn't. So if you are spamming a Betty Netch summon in combat, then, well, that will be hilarious.

Its a free cast purge... so yeah... will be def used in combat!

Nelson_Rebel · April 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

As stated on ESO Live I think 3 weeks ago when they were going through the animal skill line for the warden, the bear isn't summoned via normal means. So while yes it is generating ultimate from using skills from the class line it isn't helping getting that bear up. And besides, Nightblade and Dragonknight both have passives that generate ult on skill activation and from using a potion.

This isn't about the bear, it's about the free to cast Betty Netch pet ability. Nightblade and Dragonknight passives don't work outside of combat to my knowledge. Casting Betty Netch (for free - zero resources used) will enable to warden to get and maintain the Bear Ult.

Sorry to tell you man, but....The bear is also free. Is costs no ultimate to use

Half of all warden skills seem to cost nothing and are all free spammable casts

The warden is broken AF. Just re roll to warden.

As deltia said if you want to be relevant in 2017, get out your credit card

Wow, I didn't realize how broken the Warden is... so basically they get free to cast pets and buffs and then get to use all their resources on spammable skills and pet healing? Welcome to Wardenwind release.

From a pvp standpoint, yes very broken. Especially considering the nerfs to other classes sustain. They give warden free casting

Rickter · April 2017

All i'm saying is if ZOS wants to simmer down some of the tinfoil hat wearers on wardens. . . then they probably shouldnt have reinforced sustain management for everyone but then gave warden cost free skills

AzraelKrieg · April 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

As stated on ESO Live I think 3 weeks ago when they were going through the animal skill line for the warden, the bear isn't summoned via normal means. So while yes it is generating ultimate from using skills from the class line it isn't helping getting that bear up. And besides, Nightblade and Dragonknight both have passives that generate ult on skill activation and from using a potion.

This isn't about the bear, it's about the free to cast Betty Netch pet ability. Nightblade and Dragonknight passives don't work outside of combat to my knowledge. Casting Betty Netch (for free - zero resources used) will enable to warden to get and maintain the Bear Ult.

Sorry to tell you man, but....The bear is also free. Is costs no ultimate to use

Half of all warden skills seem to cost nothing and are all free spammable casts

The warden is broken AF. Just re roll to warden.

As deltia said if you want to be relevant in 2017, get out your credit card

The bear isn't free technically. You just need to wait for a timer before you can use. And then one of the attacks it has consumes ultimate. And the only warden skill that costs nothing is the netch.

As for the NB potion-ult passive, yes, that does work outside of combat. The DK passive and the other NB passive however only work in combat

Zvorgin · April 2017

Flaminir wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The passive won't work out of combat. Just like the DK's earthen heart passive doesn't. So if you are spamming a Betty Netch summon in combat, then, well, that will be hilarious.

Its a free cast purge... so yeah... will be def used in combat!

Haha oh man, I didn't even catch the fact it's a free to cast purge. So a major damage buff, resource regen, ult generation and a purge all at no cost... way to go Zos!

Zvorgin · April 2017

Rickter wrote: »

All i'm saying is if ZOS wants to simmer down some of the tinfoil hat wearers on wardens. . . then they probably shouldnt have reinforced sustain management for everyone but then gave warden cost free skills

The Warden has officially become the face of the nerf patch. Seems like they erred in judgment pretty badly releasing the Warden at the same time they are butchering the other classes, but I guess the Warden really is the reason the other classes are being nerfed hard.

FlyLionel · April 2017

Warden is looking really good, I like that.

All that is needed now is more class buffs to the weaker classes. PTS clock is ticking.

Juhasow · April 2017

OMG holy crap there will be class that can get ultimate by activating class abilities....That's outrageous that Warden can get 4 ultimate each 8 seconds in combat !! P2W ! Close the game ! Fire Wrobel !

Nightblade:
Transfer : Activating a Siphoning ability grants 2 ultimate. This effect have cooldown of 4 seconds. (works with Siphoning Strikes and Drain Power even when not dealing dmg)
Dragonknight:
Mountain's Blessing: Activating Earthen Heart abilities grant You and Your allies minor berserk for 20 seconds. Also if You're in combat You get 3 ultimates each 6 seconds(works with Molten Weapons and Obsidian Shield and Ash Cloudd even when not dealing dmg)
Templar:
Activating Dawn's Wrath abilities grants 3 additional ultimate. This effect can accour once every 6 seconds.(works with Solar Barage even when not dealing dmg)

Zvorgin · April 2017

FlyLionel wrote: »

Warden is looking really good, I like that.

All that is needed now is more class buffs to the weaker classes. PTS clock is ticking.

I don't have a problem with the Warden being a strong class, I just don't get why they decided to nerf the other classes to make room for it. They could have used the Warden as a new dynamic in group play, but looks like they settled on just trying to make it a replacement for DK tanks and Templar healers.

Zvorgin · April 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

OMG holy crap there will be class that can get ultimate by activating class abilities....

Nightblade:
Transfer : Activating a Siphoning ability grants 2 ultimate. This effect have cooldown of 4 seconds. (works with Siphoning Strikes and Drain Power even when not dealing dmg)
Dragonknight:
Mountain's Blessing: Activating Earthen Heart abilities grant You and Your allies minor berserk for 20 seconds. Also if You're in combat You get 3 ultimates each 6 seconds(works with Molten Weapons and Obsidian Shield and Ash Cloudd even when not dealing dmg)
Templar:
Activating Dawn's Wrath abilities grants 3 additional ultimate. This effect can accour once every 6 seconds.(works with Solar Barage even when not dealing dmg)

You realize that all of those skills cost you magicka or stamina right? Warden skill is free to cast...that's the point. Also, those all require you be in combat, that is not a stated requirement on the warden skill.

NeillMcAttack · April 2017

Flaminir wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The passive won't work out of combat. Just like the DK's earthen heart passive doesn't. So if you are spamming a Betty Netch summon in combat, then, well, that will be hilarious.

Its a free cast purge... so yeah... will be def used in combat!

Spamming it to remove one negative effect and generate ultimate. Sure, go for it! I'm not telling you how to play, I'm just saying that spamming it won't be a very worthwhile endeavor. Of course it will be used in combat, but spammed?

Juhasow · April 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OMG holy crap there will be class that can get ultimate by activating class abilities....

Nightblade:
Transfer : Activating a Siphoning ability grants 2 ultimate. This effect have cooldown of 4 seconds. (works with Siphoning Strikes and Drain Power even when not dealing dmg)
Dragonknight:
Mountain's Blessing: Activating Earthen Heart abilities grant You and Your allies minor berserk for 20 seconds. Also if You're in combat You get 3 ultimates each 6 seconds(works with Molten Weapons and Obsidian Shield and Ash Cloudd even when not dealing dmg)
Templar:
Activating Dawn's Wrath abilities grants 3 additional ultimate. This effect can accour once every 6 seconds.(works with Solar Barage even when not dealing dmg)

You realize that all of those skills cost you magicka or stamina right? Warden skill is free to cast...that's the point. Also, those all require you be in combat, that is not a stated requirement on the warden skill.

You do realize that's happening once each 8 seconds right ? And basicly most of the time You'll get this by using offensive skills then by using netch ? Not mentioning most of the cllasses that have this passives using skills that proccing it normally in their rotations.

Zvorgin · April 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OMG holy crap there will be class that can get ultimate by activating class abilities....

Nightblade:
Transfer : Activating a Siphoning ability grants 2 ultimate. This effect have cooldown of 4 seconds. (works with Siphoning Strikes and Drain Power even when not dealing dmg)
Dragonknight:
Mountain's Blessing: Activating Earthen Heart abilities grant You and Your allies minor berserk for 20 seconds. Also if You're in combat You get 3 ultimates each 6 seconds(works with Molten Weapons and Obsidian Shield and Ash Cloudd even when not dealing dmg)
Templar:
Activating Dawn's Wrath abilities grants 3 additional ultimate. This effect can accour once every 6 seconds.(works with Solar Barage even when not dealing dmg)

You realize that all of those skills cost you magicka or stamina right? Warden skill is free to cast...that's the point. Also, those all require you be in combat, that is not a stated requirement on the warden skill.

You do realize that's happening once each 8 seconds right ? And basicly most of the time You'll get this by using offensive skills then by using netch ?

That's better, but that still means free ult every 8 seconds plus all the other benefits of the skill. I didn't see the Warden ESO Live, is the idea of the class that pets and buffs are free and resources are used on spammables?

ADarklore · April 2017

It's amusing seeing people making comments based on the hype that other people are generating without even realizing how silly their points are.

Sure, the Netch has zero cost, but it has a lengthy cast time and gives a VERY minor stat return... sure it can purge ONE effect, but in combat you try spamming that and with the cast time you'll be DEAD before the effect is ever purged. Further, Elemental Drain has ZERO cost and returns roughly 3x as much Magicka AND activates Major Breach.

makreth · April 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

It cost 40$.

Here you have your answer.

hahaha you made my day, thank you. I really can't stop laughing

Juhasow · April 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OMG holy crap there will be class that can get ultimate by activating class abilities....

Nightblade:
Transfer : Activating a Siphoning ability grants 2 ultimate. This effect have cooldown of 4 seconds. (works with Siphoning Strikes and Drain Power even when not dealing dmg)
Dragonknight:
Mountain's Blessing: Activating Earthen Heart abilities grant You and Your allies minor berserk for 20 seconds. Also if You're in combat You get 3 ultimates each 6 seconds(works with Molten Weapons and Obsidian Shield and Ash Cloudd even when not dealing dmg)
Templar:
Activating Dawn's Wrath abilities grants 3 additional ultimate. This effect can accour once every 6 seconds.(works with Solar Barage even when not dealing dmg)

You realize that all of those skills cost you magicka or stamina right? Warden skill is free to cast...that's the point. Also, those all require you be in combat, that is not a stated requirement on the warden skill.

You do realize that's happening once each 8 seconds right ? And basicly most of the time You'll get this by using offensive skills then by using netch ?

That's better, but that still means free ult every 8 seconds plus all the other benefits of the skill. I didn't see the Warden ESO Live, is the idea of the class that pets and buffs are free and resources are used on spammables?

There is only 1 free cost ability on warden which is that Netch. it have increadibly long animation of summoning. Fact that warden have this ability not making him OP or p2w it's 4 ulti each 8 seconds anywa and You still need to use the ability.
With that way of thinking sorc is even more OP because he have passive that lowers ultimate costs by 15% so he dont even need to use anything he can just use ultimates earlier without using any other abilities and wasting time and resources on proccing passive.

Flaminir · April 2017

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The passive won't work out of combat. Just like the DK's earthen heart passive doesn't. So if you are spamming a Betty Netch summon in combat, then, well, that will be hilarious.

Its a free cast purge... so yeah... will be def used in combat!

Spamming it to remove one negative effect and generate ultimate. Sure, go for it! I'm not telling you how to play, I'm just saying that spamming it won't be a very worthwhile endeavor. Of course it will be used in combat, but spammed?

Given that it has a cooldown on the passive there would be no point in spamming it from an ulti generation perspective.

As a purge... well yeah, whenever you need to tbh... its entirely free to cast, so totally situational depending on when you need a purge.

The point being that you CAN spam it if you need... its free... and you also get the Major sorcery buff, ultimate regen, resource regen on top of the mini-purge.

Still struggling to see any justification for this to be a 'free' skill at all,

Skullstachio · April 2017

I can only imagine how well the betty netch skill & its morphs would get along with those bearing the Engine Guardian Monster Set.

Duiwel · April 2017

And what about NB's who get ult on kills OP? Nobody is making an uproar about that...

Zvorgin · April 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

It's amusing seeing people making comments based on the hype that other people are generating without even realizing how silly their points are.

Sure, the Netch has zero cost, but it has a lengthy cast time and gives a VERY minor stat return... sure it can purge ONE effect, but in combat you try spamming that and with the cast time you'll be DEAD before the effect is ever purged. Further, Elemental Drain has ZERO cost and returns roughly 3x as much Magicka AND activates Major Breach.

What is the cast time and what is the amount of resource return? They did not include that information in their skills release post or in the patch notes so that's why I made the thread... I really am interested in finding out why these skills and passives are laid out they way they are and how the fit compared to the other class nerfs.

If the idea is pets and buffs are free from the warden but have long cast times and then pet abilities and spammables are for resource consumption they should say so, reading those skills it looks like they are just receiving a lot of built in inherent advantages. I still disagree that buffs should be free.