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Does ESO/ZOS need a CSM style council?

Sile
Sile
✭✭✭
Would a CSM style council be something that would positively benefit ESO?

It's pretty clear that the most recent patch notes (3.0.0) has been met with less than warm reception. Almost all players were in favour of a nerf in sustain, but opinions vary to which extent.


What is/are CSM?
First I have to explain what the CSM is. CSM stands for "Council of Stellar Management", and comes from an initiative from CCP in their MMO, EVE Online. Players (democratically) elect other players to represent us at a peak level, interacting directly with ZOS. A Student Representative Council is an easy analogy.

CSM members have direct and frequent communication with CCP Developers, working with CCP to bring attention to key areas that need either reworking, and are CCP's first point of contact when it comes to discussing / implementing their vision for the future.

Over the years the CSM in EVE has undergone a few iterations, particularly post Incarna, each iteration the lesson is the importance of using player representatives as both consultants and advisers.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM-WHITEPAPER.pdf

The white paper is particularly a good read on the benefits, responsibilities, and function of a CSM council. I highly recommend reading it.

Taken straight from CCP's intention for the CSM:
Generally, CCP wants to work with the Council of Stellar Management in 3 major ways:

Getting feedback on EVE development priorities and long term roadmap

Discussing ideas, theory and design approaches for potential EVE Online features

Getting feedback on features in active development

These points are expanded on in the community url from here: https://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/


Why do we need a CSM style council - what is wrong with current feedback methods & channels? What would be addressed with one?

There is nothing inherently wrong with how things are done currently - dozens of other competitor MMO's do the same as ESO - publish changes late in the dev cycle and see how much the forums meltdown. Often when the changes are very negatively perceived, it's either too late to make changes, or there's a big delay as things are changed even further. Reworking changes late in the dev cycle wastes Dev time that can be better utilised. A CSM, just as it has in EVE, helps to alleviate this by advising CCP early on in their dev cycle on proposed changes, tweaking them before they move further down the pipeline, from the end user perspective.

The end user perspective is an important distinction, for as while ZOS may have all the pre/post change data, datasets from the wild are A: Inherently skewed by only including players who remain, and B: Changes need to be released into a live environment! Any change can look good if there's a shift in the meta and players adapt, but if players quit because of the change, where is their impact? Re-recruiting players can be hard, negative word-of-mouth is very damaging, it doesn't take much to break a game (SWG).

Secondly, imagine walking into a to a crowd, where 100 people are yelling at you simultaneously, each with an issue. Some of these issues overlap or are similar enough that they can be clumped together (say 30/100) but due to the noise of the other 70, the issue may not reach the ears of whom it needs to with the right gravitas. A player elected council reduces noise, making it easier for ZOS to understand and get a handle on issues.

Players on the forums are the most vocal - it's true. There's a lot of players who don't care enough to try and improve things, simply jumping ship when their fun ends. There are players who just lurk, rarely voicing an opinion. Just as we elect people in real life to protect or further our best interests, so to do CSM representatives. This addresses the quiet majority (players who care about the game, but might not regularly post or be notorious players), as an election is a one time affair, people will take the time to elect the individual they believe to represent their interests the best.

A CSM Member has a unique distinction of being a player involved in the development cycle - this is markedly different from a developer who plays the game, or someone who is paid to do so. A developer may see a mechanic as "this mechanic is this way because reason", whereas a player may say "this mechanic is / isn't fun because reason." CSM members allow the gap to be bridged between players and developers by offering unique insight from a player perspective.

It isn't uncommon to hear of the upper echelons of our community have sat in TS and spoken or played with devs, they do play ESO, those player guilds often are a very small slice of our community, in a very small timeframe. There is no continued or static influencing, feedback, consulting, or advising outside of an adhoc basis. An effective CSM is a continual communication between the representatives and developers on coordinating an effective and positive implementation of future changes and content.

There is (IMHO) only positive things that can come from top level player interaction and guidance on the health of ESO. We already have 'influencers' in the form of streamers, or more notorious players, where what they say and create can have an impact on the development direction of ESO. Unfortunately, while these players are able to influence, albeit slightly, the direction of ESO, the lack of an official unified player front presents both a missed opportunity for ZOS to create a better product, for for players to get a better game than they had yesterday, and frankly, it's a better way for us as players to be heard, than through the mass communication that is both the forums and social media.



What are the challenges that can face our CSM?

One of the common issues that you hear in the CSM is gerrymandering by alliances in EVE - simply put with a large player base everyone votes for the guy from their alliance. ESO fortunately is a different beast than EVE, as there are no alliances or excessively large player organisations - the number of guilds that have an active member base more than 500 are tiny, if not non-existant outside of trade guilds.

This issue can be extended to "How do we know whom to vote for?" - players often have their own renown. I personally never do trials as that isn't my interest, but I have been carried by, and by extension know some excellent PVErs and have ties to their guilds. Some players have their reputation precede them. Commonly people who wish to be elected campaign on a platform, and that's the point of a CSM - to bring existing issues to the fore, and to safeguard interests of their electors in the future.

Being mere figureheads is another key challenge - if this were to be earnestly implemented, it needs to be more than just a token fashion. ZOS would need to treat these player representatives as equals, the same as a business partner or hired consultant - if they advise you on something and they give you a good reason to do so, it's bad for business to not do it. The early EVE CSM suffered from this, to CCP's detriment, there are interviews of CCP's CEO speaking about this fact (search EVE Online Incarna).



If we were to do it, how would we do it?


Imitation is probably the easiest starting point - CCP have gone through and done much of the hard work when it comes to establishing a player council.

9 representatives, voted for by players wholly. If there's a framework built to accommodate voting, players will do the rest. As long as players can nominate themselves, and there is a place for them to demonstrate their platform and experience on the forums, with a voting mechanism to accommodate, at the end of the elections we should have our representatives. People are inventive.

Annual elections held on the ESO Website / Forum (The actual voting mechanism could even be conducted ingame). Timeframe is generally 30 days for CSM

Face to face council visits with top level developers as a council, covering both the short term and longer term roadmap, bi-annually, at the start of the term and half way.

Direct and consistent communication with the developers, regarding current issues, current implementation and execution of previous development.



Conclusion

There isn't much to say other than let this be the first vote towards whether we should have a player council!
Edited by Sile on April 24, 2017 11:38AM
Gondor
Stamplar
The Kelly Gang
Eternal Dear Leader of Bad People on a Shortbus
OG Daggerfall Covenant

Does ESO/ZOS need a CSM style council? 47 votes

Yes
31%
ZardayneDemionzariaHatchetHaroSaint-AngeSileNiclasFridholmDerraMarkusTheValiantVoodooPlatypusElvenpathpsxflohTaylor_MBjlboozerBriuce 15 votes
No
68%
faerigirlTurelusSkayaqtimb16_ESO85KyomaRev RielleElsonsoxSkullfoxAhPook_Is_HereTandorJKorrSil_FoundationrootimusbitelsPraeficereBalamoorAmmonErebosEasily_LostDamianosyashualaydin 32 votes
  • Sile
    Sile
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    Yes
    I made a big mistake with my tags :(
    Edited by Sile on April 24, 2017 11:38AM
    Gondor
    Stamplar
    The Kelly Gang
    Eternal Dear Leader of Bad People on a Shortbus
    OG Daggerfall Covenant
  • MarkusLiberty
    MarkusLiberty
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    No
    Absolutely not. I would hate to be represented by some ESO youtuber who got elected purely because of his massive follower base. We already saw the outraged when the top ESO streamers got invited to the Zenimax headquarters earlier this year, how will this end any differently?
    Edited by MarkusLiberty on April 24, 2017 11:44AM
    *Special Snowflake*

  • rootimus
    rootimus
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    No
    CCP and ZOS have two vary different cultures and goals. One of them fosters an actual sense of community, the other makes ESO.
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    No
    I am an 8 year EVE player so I know the CSM system.

    I don't think it would work here however, as with EVE the CSM is more of a popularity/alliance polling system than one which actually elects players who would give feedback and help the game.

    If ZOS had one for ESO then the list of people would be as follows.

    Fengrush, Deltia, Acast, MissBizz, Sypher (does he still play?) etc.

    It's going to be the content creators who can mobilise a following, as everyone else would be a nobody, considering that when ZOS has flown players out to their HQ to get feedback it was somewhat the above list any way, then it wouldn't change much from their current system.

    I also don't think this community would be able to understand the CSM system in a way EVE Online's community does.

    Also in closing I can only say Grrr Goons.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Sil_Foundation
    No
    Turelus wrote: »
    I don't think it would work here however, as with EVE the CSM is more of a popularity/alliance polling system than one which actually elects players who would give feedback and help the game.

    It doesn't work in Eve, so it clearly won't work here either.

    The only purpose of it in Eve is to make the large content creators feel like they matter, and give them a chance at manipulating the market through advanced knowledge of upcoming patches.
  • Sile
    Sile
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    Yes
    Absolutely not. I would hate to be represented by some ESO youtuber who got elected purely because of his massive follower base. We already saw the outraged when the top ESO streamers got invited to the ESO headquarters earlier this year, how will this end any differently?

    So how would be any worse to what occurs currently? The big streamers already have enough influence to change how things occur, but late in the development cycle. You would also be able to vote for people outside of streamers, there are several prominent forum members who are quite good at what they do, and are able to voice well thought out arguments and opinions for or against players.

    It's literally a case of 'your vote matters'.
    Turelus wrote: »
    I am an 8 year EVE player so I know the CSM system.

    I don't think it would work here however, as with EVE the CSM is more of a popularity/alliance polling system than one which actually elects players who would give feedback and help the game.

    If ZOS had one for ESO then the list of people would be as follows.

    Fengrush, Deltia, Acast, MissBizz, Sypher (does he still play?) etc.

    It's going to be the content creators who can mobilise a following, as everyone else would be a nobody, considering that when ZOS has flown players out to their HQ to get feedback it was somewhat the above list any way, then it wouldn't change much from their current system.

    I also don't think this community would be able to understand the CSM system in a way EVE Online's community does.

    Also in closing I can only say Grrr Goons.

    If you were around for the first few CSM elections, they were originally a bit of a popularity contest, but even the representative for Goonswarm did his duty for nullsec. If anything; streamers have more invested in the health and longevity of ESO, as if it is their primary streamed game, it'll also be the main source of their revenue. That said, I know players who mightn't stream but are more than deserving of votes, and we see them post regularly on the forum concerning issues for the game.

    If you look at recent CSM elections, there are players who aren't (shock surprise) streamers, or nullsec alliances.
    Gondor
    Stamplar
    The Kelly Gang
    Eternal Dear Leader of Bad People on a Shortbus
    OG Daggerfall Covenant
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No
    Sile wrote: »
    Absolutely not. I would hate to be represented by some ESO youtuber who got elected purely because of his massive follower base. We already saw the outraged when the top ESO streamers got invited to the ESO headquarters earlier this year, how will this end any differently?

    So how would be any worse to what occurs currently? The big streamers already have enough influence to change how things occur, but late in the development cycle. You would also be able to vote for people outside of streamers, there are several prominent forum members who are quite good at what they do, and are able to voice well thought out arguments and opinions for or against players.

    It's literally a case of 'your vote matters'.
    Turelus wrote: »
    I am an 8 year EVE player so I know the CSM system.

    I don't think it would work here however, as with EVE the CSM is more of a popularity/alliance polling system than one which actually elects players who would give feedback and help the game.

    If ZOS had one for ESO then the list of people would be as follows.

    Fengrush, Deltia, Acast, MissBizz, Sypher (does he still play?) etc.

    It's going to be the content creators who can mobilise a following, as everyone else would be a nobody, considering that when ZOS has flown players out to their HQ to get feedback it was somewhat the above list any way, then it wouldn't change much from their current system.

    I also don't think this community would be able to understand the CSM system in a way EVE Online's community does.

    Also in closing I can only say Grrr Goons.

    If you were around for the first few CSM elections, they were originally a bit of a popularity contest, but even the representative for Goonswarm did his duty for nullsec. If anything; streamers have more invested in the health and longevity of ESO, as if it is their primary streamed game, it'll also be the main source of their revenue. That said, I know players who mightn't stream but are more than deserving of votes, and we see them post regularly on the forum concerning issues for the game.

    If you look at recent CSM elections, there are players who aren't (shock surprise) streamers, or nullsec alliances.

    https://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/current-csm/
    Looks like all the blocs got their reps in again this year. You can't dispute that even if the people running want to help the game, that players who are not part of large alliances or content creators stand a change in an election.

    There could be a Empire dweller who's played the game for years, has a great grasp of the mechanics, and wants to run on helping guide PvE in a more interesting way. They're going to get very little votes vs the Goon/PL reps who everyone in those alliances are told to vote for.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • MarkusLiberty
    MarkusLiberty
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    No
    You would also be able to vote for people outside of streamers, there are several prominent forum members who are quite good at what they do, and are able to voice well thought out arguments and opinions for or against players.

    But how exactly are these non streamers supposed to stand a chance when nobody knows who they are but a handful of fellow forum posters?

    You practially have to run an election campaign in order to get voted in, and only candicates with large amounts of followers will ever stand a chance.

    I have watched a handful of these streamers/youtubers, and I've seen the overbearing and toxic way they often talk about other players and developers. I can understand why that might be entertaining to watch, but it's not the type of people I want governing my favorite online game.
    Edited by MarkusLiberty on April 24, 2017 12:03PM
    *Special Snowflake*

  • Elvenpath
    Elvenpath
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    Yes
    @ZOS_GinaBruno yeap we need this pls.
  • Bam_Bam
    Bam_Bam
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    Yes but its never ever going to happen.
    Joined January 2014
    PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
    Grand Master Crafter

    #DiscordHypeSquad

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  • rootimus
    rootimus
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    No
    Turelus wrote: »
    https://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/current-csm/
    Looks like all the blocs got their reps in again this year. You can't dispute that even if the people running want to help the game, that players who are not part of large alliances or content creators stand a change in an election.

    There could be a Empire dweller who's played the game for years, has a great grasp of the mechanics, and wants to run on helping guide PvE in a more interesting way. They're going to get very little votes vs the Goon/PL reps who everyone in those alliances are told to vote for.

    Nullsec alliances put out their lists but have no way of ensuring members vote accordingly. They get most / all of the people they want because that part of the player base tends to be pretty passionate about the game doing well, to the point where they'll support, or even champion, changes that adversely affect them (the tech moon nerf, for example).

    High Sec (Empire includes Low Sec) players are, largely, selfish people who have proven every year that they can't put aside silly differences in order to get their voice heard (the anti-ganking channel is a classic example), or too apathetic to care. The barrier to entry is a lot lower since the change to STV or whatever they called it so they have no excuse for not being represented.

    Regardless, ZOS won't even listen to player feedback over something as simple as the silly changes to enchanting (did they work? Mr Frior? Mrs Bruno? Crickets?). Anything similar to the CSM for this game would likely consist of handpicked yes men and be of no value at all to the players.
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • yashualaydin
    yashualaydin
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    No
    Most of players who would be elected will have no idea of Tamriel lore.. I prefer the developers work and I enjoy the game. END.
    Baron Yashu al-Aydin - Forebear from Herne Island: "May Diagna guide my blade and Tava show me the way."

    Eshu-Moushe Auspal - Ashlander from the Mainland: "While you try to pronounce my name, you get stabbed. Simply as that."
  • Reaver-Stormhamre
    Reaver-Stormhamre
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    No
    the issue with player committees is that even if you find the most knowledgable players out there that have the support from devs and the player base, you will always find corruption. be it in the form of leaks, using upcoming patches for personal gain or other potentially damaging activities. im not saying that everyone is like this but if you give someone a little edge/inside info then someone will inevitably use that in detriment of the game
    Working as intended
  • TheRealPotoroo
    TheRealPotoroo
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    Sile wrote: »
    Would a CSM style council be something that would positively benefit ESO?

    It's pretty clear that the most recent patch notes (3.0.0) has been met with less than warm reception. Almost all players were in favour of a nerf in sustain, but opinions vary to which extent.
    No, we weren't. Some PvP players were but most players don't play PvP.
    PC NA, PC EU

    "Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_6850523
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    Don't we already have "community ambassadors", like what @MissBizz and a few others are? Couldn't they technically fit this role of a "CSM", unless if ZOS has completely abandoned the ambassador program. And or the whole ambassador thing technically means nothing.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    No
    I cannot imagine anything worse. We don't need to add a layer of bureaucracy between the players and ZOS. We just need ZOS to crack open the door a little more and give us good feedback on the feedback we provide.

    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
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    Total in-game hours: 11321
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • JD2013
    JD2013
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    Absolutely not.

    Because then we would only have future balance dictated by a very small percentage of the player base.
    Sweetrolls for all!

    Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC

    PC Beta Tester January 2014

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    Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    "There is (IMHO) only positive things that can come from top level player interaction and guidance on the health of ESO."

    i really really really disagree with this part in my own opinion and i very much disagree with this idea being good for the game as a whole.

    note that recently when zos invited youtubers in the forumites went sort nuts over how they dont represent us.

    then lets note that we dont represent the vast majority of players either.

    Additionally, the bigger picture will never be available to players or councils - the changes made in january may make a lot more sense when we know what they have drawn up for next january.

    Also, note that many seem to be of the "this is my class" and "fight for my class" mindset. Just look at how many threads are about sorc vs other or temp vs other or so on and so forth.

    i have seen what happens to a game when players are given a "council" to weigh in even in a dictatorship - where a council gets to have the ear of the deciders, where it does develop a strong undercurrent of "my side vs your side" and it leads to great homogenization every time i have seen it - not right away but overtime one "but they get another... so we deserve" becomes once too often and so a distinction goes away in favor of quiet.

    no.
    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

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  • ParaNostram
    ParaNostram
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    No
    Can you imagine PvP, PvE, and RP voting blocks? Gods... The council would either need to be made so weak to save us from ourselves which would make it feel pointless or we'd risk ruin personally. We do not all have experience with game design. They do. Hell, they have years of experience designing THIS game in particular.

    What they should do, I think, is hire a handful more people to be on the forums and talk with people, maybe hire some of the community ambassadors. At least let us feel like there is an open dialogue between us and ZOS.

    HOWEVER for that to work we would need to maybe not just keep telling ZOS to go *** themselves like so many people do when they feel so much as a single raindrop on their head.
    "Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."

    Para Nostram
    Bosmer Sorceress
    Witch of Evermore

    "Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
    Order of the Black Worm
  • Rickter
    Rickter
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    These first page responses has restored my faith in the ESO community

    get out of here with that "chosen elite" crap hahaha
    RickterESO
    PC | NA | DC
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  • rootimus
    rootimus
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    No
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Don't we already have "community ambassadors", like what @MissBizz and a few others are? Couldn't they technically fit this role of a "CSM", unless if ZOS has completely abandoned the ambassador program. And or the whole ambassador thing technically means nothing.

    I got the impression the ambassador thing was abandoned about 30 seconds after it was launched. Kinda like the guild spotlight, the AUA thread and to a fair extent, ESO Live.
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • Jacozilla
    Jacozilla
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    I don't doubt OPs sincerity but I do question the alleged claim of most players wanted some sustain nerf.

    I for one did not. However, I readily concede I have no hard data to claim anything else other than my opinion alone. But do question how OP could know or make this claim on behalf of most players.

    I've been in online game where the devs asked on their site, posted on Reddit, and emailed all game accounts to vote in a mass poll that was specifically locked to require voter login registration so that only account owners could vote, and asked what their choice was on a key issue (Instant vs timed ship transfer in Elite Dangerous).

    This allowed all parties to conclusively see what the poll percentage was, the mass invitation across web forum, Reddit, and registered emails ensured widespread notification and public notice of the vote. In that issue, it was clearly a massive majority of nearly 70% preferred one way vs the other.

    I came out on the losing end of that poll, but I was happy with the dev implementation because it was abundantly clear they respected and carried out the wish of the massive majority - despite my being in the minority that just seemed such a class way to do it.

    So i ask again - how does OP who otherwise comes across as reasonable and sincere, presume to know what most players wanted re sustain issue, or even if most players considered sustain to be an issue at all?
  • Balamoor
    Balamoor
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    No
    God no,

    Can you imagine some of the sociopaths, that continually hate on the game, the devs and the company having any say in the direction of the game, or this game getting it's own version of "The Mattani?"

    I wouldn't do a simple pug with most of the toxic windbags on this forum....no way would I want them to have any say about the direction of the game.

    Every time in history developers reached out to fans it has been an unmitigated disaster.

    In 2000 When EQ held their one and only Guild council, the results were pushing out everyone but Raiders.

    In 2012 When Bioware held their Guild summit for SWTOR (Which I attended) It accomplished nothing and left the majority of players feeling alienated.

    With the Recent Streamer invite, most of the invitees are pissed because the Devs didn't do exactly what each streamer wanted (Which was turn the game into Raid or Die or PVP or die) which resulted in Deltia having a food flying from his mouth baby fit.

    The customers are good for one thing Money. If a developer wants to show love, they can hold a Blizzcon like event and get feedback from folks that attend it, but Player ran governments and inviting a select few "Chosen Elite" to make the big decisions for the devs and us is a terrible idea.
    Edited by Balamoor on April 24, 2017 1:21PM
  • JKorr
    JKorr
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    No
    Sile wrote: »

    It's pretty clear that the most recent patch notes (3.0.0) has been met with less than warm reception. Almost all players were in favour of a nerf in sustain, but opinions vary to which extent.

    Really? "Almost all players..." Huh. Special snowflake much?

    I wasn't. I don't know, and really, truly don't care what they do with pvp. I don't pvp, don't want to pvp, and really wish that they would separate pve and pvp, so changes to the one wouldn't bother the other.

    I wouldn't want the popular/big guild pvp people "in charge". I wouldn't want any faction, pvp, pve, or rp, to be able to dictate how mechanics were going to be changed.

    And it would end up as a popularity contest; just look at all the drama threads about Deltia deciding to cut back on streaming/making ESO build guides; how many sheeple instantly said that if he's "quitting ESO" [which apparently isn't what he said] they are going to quit/unsub too because he doesn't like it any more. These are the playerbase you'd put in a position of influence? No, thanks.
  • MissBizz
    MissBizz
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Don't we already have "community ambassadors", like what @MissBizz and a few others are? Couldn't they technically fit this role of a "CSM", unless if ZOS has completely abandoned the ambassador program. And or the whole ambassador thing technically means nothing.

    @Ch4mpTW community ambassadors is a forum only thing, and not like above. More about being helpful and guiding on the forums. We definitely don't get any inside information or input towards the game itself.
    Edited by MissBizz on April 24, 2017 1:27PM
    Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    MissBizz wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Don't we already have "community ambassadors", like what @MissBizz and a few others are? Couldn't they technically fit this role of a "CSM", unless if ZOS has completely abandoned the ambassador program. And or the whole ambassador thing technically means nothing.

    @Ch4mpTW community ambassadors is a forum only thing, and not like above. More about being helpful and guiding on the forums. We definitely do get any inside information or input towards the game itself.

    Interesting. Very interesting.
  • Tandor
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    No
    No, it would just be another opportunity for the self-important streamers to preen themselves some more - or at least those among them who haven't gone off in a huff because of changes that ordinary players will just adapt to and carry on playing regardless.

    What is more likely to work is to have separate class forum topics presided over by a class representative from the mainstream playerbase and who would simply throw around some ideas and co-ordinate the feedback to a particular developer. Similar arrangements could also work for e.g. crafting, housing and PvP. I do stress, however, the need for this to be led by mainstream players, not by those considered by some to be the "top" players. That's the only way in which change will be brought about that will benefit most players as well as improving the game overall.
  • ParaNostram
    ParaNostram
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    No
    JKorr wrote: »
    Sile wrote: »

    It's pretty clear that the most recent patch notes (3.0.0) has been met with less than warm reception. Almost all players were in favour of a nerf in sustain, but opinions vary to which extent.

    Really? "Almost all players..." Huh. Special snowflake much?

    I wasn't. I don't know, and really, truly don't care what they do with pvp. I don't pvp, don't want to pvp, and really wish that they would separate pve and pvp, so changes to the one wouldn't bother the other.

    I wouldn't want the popular/big guild pvp people "in charge". I wouldn't want any faction, pvp, pve, or rp, to be able to dictate how mechanics were going to be changed.

    And it would end up as a popularity contest; just look at all the drama threads about Deltia deciding to cut back on streaming/making ESO build guides; how many sheeple instantly said that if he's "quitting ESO" [which apparently isn't what he said] they are going to quit/unsub too because he doesn't like it any more. These are the playerbase you'd put in a position of influence? No, thanks.

    I've been calling for a nerf to sustain since the meta went from strategic management of resources and abilities to animation cancelling your way to spending more resources faster due to the sheer overflowing neverending pool of resources everyone has.
    "Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."

    Para Nostram
    Bosmer Sorceress
    Witch of Evermore

    "Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
    Order of the Black Worm
  • Turelus
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    No
    MissBizz wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Don't we already have "community ambassadors", like what @MissBizz and a few others are? Couldn't they technically fit this role of a "CSM", unless if ZOS has completely abandoned the ambassador program. And or the whole ambassador thing technically means nothing.

    Ch4mpTW community ambassadors is a forum only thing, and not like above. More about being helpful and guiding on the forums. We definitely do get any inside information or input towards the game itself.
    Uh, should that be definitely do not? Otherwise next time you speak with Wrobel tell him the Nightblade needs about 1k added in damage to every skill. :tongue:
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Elsonso
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    No
    MissBizz wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Don't we already have "community ambassadors", like what @MissBizz and a few others are? Couldn't they technically fit this role of a "CSM", unless if ZOS has completely abandoned the ambassador program. And or the whole ambassador thing technically means nothing.

    @Ch4mpTW community ambassadors is a forum only thing, and not like above. More about being helpful and guiding on the forums. We definitely do get any inside information or input towards the game itself.

    @MissBizz I am guessing you need to fix the bolded part?
    Edited by Elsonso on April 24, 2017 1:24PM
    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
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