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TL;DR please?

darthsithis
darthsithis
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Hey guys, been gone from eso for about a month...come back into the game and forums and hear people in both area chat and forum posts screaming bloody murder. Been getting the whole state-of-emergency vibe round these parts...

I read the patch notes, disagree with a lot, agree with a lot...why are people threatening to leave en masse though? Like 1/5th of my guild is adamant about it because 'DA PATCH' lol

Losing sustain sure it stinks, and I disagree with forcing heavy attacks in all the time, but now you gotta choose between recov or damage sets. What am I missing that is so cataclysmic besides the really silly stuff like repentance changes or all these skills being nerfs if 'your max resource is over 19k' lol (whose max resource 19k? Anyways I digress).

Ppl saying no one can beat maelstrom post patch but ppl do it without cp right? Idk what's going on but ppl are going bananas, if anyone wants to discuss the current climate without reaming out others, i'd love to hear your input.

I read a few threads but just saw flaming- and that was my basis for creating my own thread and asking specific questions.

All best,
~floss-less conqueror
Edited by darthsithis on April 21, 2017 9:05AM
Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.
  • Saturnana
    Saturnana
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    ZOS has finally decided to do something about the 'unkillable' builds and infinite resource pools, which is happy news for some and reason to scream at the top of their lungs for others. Whether or not the current changes will make it to live is a guess, Morrowind won't launch for another month and a half or so, and a lot can change in the mean time. So there's really no reason to scream bloody murder just yet. ;)
    @Saturnna | PC / EU

    Nâmae Rin : Dragonknight | Dr Milodas Ra'Himo : Templar | Mira Motierre : Sorceress
    Plays-ln-Puddles : Warden  |  Lady Neria : Dragonknight   | Philadore : Nightblade  
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Ha! I do love it when the mortals know they're being manipulated. Makes things infinitely more interesting."
                                      - Sheogorath
  • Saturnana
    Saturnana
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    We’d like to provide some clarity on why we made some of the changes we did, specifically to the Templar. Reading about some of these changes can be a bit jarring at first, and we highly suggest you to log onto the PTS to give it a try first-hand; this may help you see how everything works together and in context.

    First, we want to reiterate why we’re making these global changes to abilities and resource management (and most of this will sound very familiar if you read the PTS patch notes). Our combat system features fast-paced action where resource management plays a large part in performing effectively. Player abilities in ESO specifically do not have cooldowns for this very reason - resource management is a core pillar of the system. Due to the number of balance changes we’ve made over time, this core pillar of resource management has become trivialized in that it’s become easier than ever to have nearly infinite sustainability while still being fully maximized for damage. The overall goal here is to have a combat system that reinforces decision making and resource management.

    With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

    If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.

    Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

    Again, we encourage everyone to hop on the PTS and give these changes a try in both PvE and PvP scenarios rather than just reading about the changes. Once you’ve had a chance to try everything out, we’d love to hear your feedback about what you played.

    ^ This is some extra explanation Gina gave in this thread. BTW, I think I recognize your name from a thread last month or so (the girlfriend-conundrum), hoping this means things worked out for you guys! :)
    Edited by Saturnana on April 21, 2017 9:14AM
    @Saturnna | PC / EU

    Nâmae Rin : Dragonknight | Dr Milodas Ra'Himo : Templar | Mira Motierre : Sorceress
    Plays-ln-Puddles : Warden  |  Lady Neria : Dragonknight   | Philadore : Nightblade  
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Ha! I do love it when the mortals know they're being manipulated. Makes things infinitely more interesting."
                                      - Sheogorath
  • WhiteMage
    WhiteMage
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    Things need to happen and ZOS is (being extra thorough about) doing those things, but it turns out that they overdid it slightly. That is where we are now. There hasn't been any time for them to "react" to it, and people are still in the raging stage.

    In retrospect, these changes were probably too raw and extreme to make public, a lot of ppl can't handle it. If they had released these notes to the closed beta only, it would have been smoothed over before any of this could start. Oh well. Live and learn. Testing is a messy business, and ZOS is far from infallible when testing. Previously they would appear to only use the PTS to make sure things hadn't any bugs (which they selectively fixed or neglected, but that's a different issue) rather than what appears to be seeking input on a design plan. Based on ZOS' less than stellar track record, they are jumping to conclusions, but if past experiences are anything to go on, they should save the rage for the third week, where the last real changes are historically implemented. These things are messy and many just can't handle it.

    At this point, players are freaking out unfoundedly. We will have to see in the coming weeks if ZOS will give credence to the tantrums (not improve things), or if they will fix it through this extra long PTS cycle. At the present, there is nothing to be alarmed about.
    Edited by WhiteMage on April 21, 2017 9:24AM
    The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?
  • darthsithis
    darthsithis
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    lnsane wrote: »
    ^ This is some extra explanation Gina gave in this thread. BTW, I think I recognize your name from a thread last month or so (the girlfriend-conundrum), hoping this means things worked out for you guys! :)

    Yeah happy medium, no more trials so I can quit playing and do stuff with her while not feeling like I'm screwing over 11 ppl. Promoted my second in command to run the guild, and abstain from hardcore content that demands 4 hour chunks!

    Vet maw is never gonna happen, and since I got flawless in vma I don't spend hours doing that crap anymore lol. Just casually play now :)
    Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.
  • inf.toniceb17_ESO
    inf.toniceb17_ESO
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    Dunno about others but my problem isn't loss of sustain. My problem is that once again a have to ditch my hard earned gear, forget what i know about the game, learn game from scratch and re-grind required gear. I might as well do it in some other game. Some other game where devs don't turn things upside down every half a year.
    Edited by inf.toniceb17_ESO on April 22, 2017 10:34AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    There is a difference between nerfing resource management and what they did.

    The only thing that they ought to of touched was the CP cost reduction and the regen.

    The "sustain" sets that we have were designed with certain cost reduction in mind, the ones that reduce the cost of ablitys per piece and they somehow got it into their head it was a good idea to reduce the cost reduction on these passives too, it is insane and makes abilities cost too much, my breath of life with the same armor and passives unlocked, went from 2.7k to 3.5k. that is way too mucb of a difference.


    They also went overboard with the percentage resource return abilities by capping the return to your level, this ought never change, it provides an interesting choice, resource management or more damage from stacking spell damage or weapon damage.

    Tldr: they went overboard.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 22, 2017 10:39AM
  • Saturnana
    Saturnana
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    lnsane wrote: »
    ^ This is some extra explanation Gina gave in this thread. BTW, I think I recognize your name from a thread last month or so (the girlfriend-conundrum), hoping this means things worked out for you guys! :)

    Yeah happy medium, no more trials so I can quit playing and do stuff with her while not feeling like I'm screwing over 11 ppl. Promoted my second in command to run the guild, and abstain from hardcore content that demands 4 hour chunks!

    Vet maw is never gonna happen, and since I got flawless in vma I don't spend hours doing that crap anymore lol. Just casually play now :)

    That's great!
    And I've never done vet content before so honestly don't know what you'd be missing..
    But welcome to the casual club! 8D
    200w_d.gif
    Edited by Saturnana on April 22, 2017 10:44AM
    @Saturnna | PC / EU

    Nâmae Rin : Dragonknight | Dr Milodas Ra'Himo : Templar | Mira Motierre : Sorceress
    Plays-ln-Puddles : Warden  |  Lady Neria : Dragonknight   | Philadore : Nightblade  
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Ha! I do love it when the mortals know they're being manipulated. Makes things infinitely more interesting."
                                      - Sheogorath
  • notimetocare
    notimetocare
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    There is a difference between nerfing resource management and what they did.

    The only thing that they ought to of touched was the CP cost reduction and the regen.

    The "sustain" sets that we have were designed with certain cost reduction in mind, the ones that reduce the cost of ablitys per piece and they somehow got it into their head it was a good idea to reduce the cost reduction on these passives too, it is insane and makes abilities cost too much, my breath of life with the same armor and passives unlocked, went from 2.7k to 3.5k. that is way too mucb of a difference.


    They also went overboard with the percentage resource return abilities by capping the return to your level, this ought never change, it provides an interesting choice, resource management or more damage from stacking spell damage or weapon damage.

    Tldr: they went overboard.

    Half the problem is massive pools and regen based on max resources. It is a needed change for cohesive design.
  • darthsithis
    darthsithis
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    Well lich may be required...but I run 5 necropotence and 5 infal now, and it works so great. Channeled heavy kills adds fills resources, and activates infallible aether 5th trait debuf on the first tick.

    I think the champion point system is the problem, and nerfing the uniqueness of classes is why people are mad (I think).

    And pvp needs to stop dictating pve balance changes. Molag Kena hits through my shield stack, so why the short duration? Sorc is dps... and max resources shouldn't hinder people who choose to invest in damage. Punished for attribute stacking, for shield stacking, for champion point stacking..the future is points in resource of your choice and then health, stack weapon or spell power, and run recov 5 piece set.

    My idea now is to do...

    Two piece kena is back, with 4 lich body, one torugs body, 3 infal jewelry with spell damage or maybe recov on one, then a lich lightning staff and backbar dw with infal sharpened/torugs nirnhoned swords (off hand doesn't count trait for skills- but still applies damage boost. Skills are sharpened if infal is main hand dw). cp into heavy attack restoring mag is meta. Maybe a jewelry glyph of reduce spell cost in place of one spell damage glyph.

    Proc'd kena, torugs bonus to spell damage / infal 4th trait spell damage bonus on dw bar + surge + enchant lich staff with spell damage glyph, + soec lightning buff for eots all electricity dos goodness...and put tons of cp into staff expert instead of all in elemental expert. Lots in thaumaturge.

    Destro Run inner light, ward, wall of elements, scamp, and surge with destro ult (lightning eots)

    Dw: execute, liquid lightning, daedric prey (curse morph), scamp, and frag in case it procs while kena is on. Plus this increases spell damage. Ulti should be Storm atro or overload for more spell damage due to using sorc skills.

    If overload, use rearming trap, on the bar alongside boundless storm and entropy to boost an empowered third light attack after kena procs and before you shoot the third ball.

    We will see how it works!

    my buffed spell damage was 4500
    Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.
  • darthsithis
    darthsithis
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    Sorry for rambling. Gonna have fun trying new builds. Maybe even slime raw lol

    And endgame was fun, but now I have the title I want, gear to experiment with, and have fun trying heavy armor spell damage lightning builds! Mayve even 5 scathing Mage plus 5 bsw, with 2 torugs swords and maelstrom staff. That'd be like 5k spell damage, abd NO recovery lol.

    Anyways let's have fun with it, maybe we can make the warden amazing with creativity too
    Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.
  • Wolfenbelle
    Wolfenbelle
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    lnsane wrote: »
    ZOS has finally decided to do something about the 'unkillable' builds and infinite resource pools...

    This is a PVP issue. Yet, as usual, to fix a PVP problem everyone in the game gets screwed big time. ZOS' refusal to separate the two from a balancing perspective is the single biggest mistake they have made and continue to make.

  • darthsithis
    darthsithis
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    ^that is something I feel is 100% the issue and it's ridiculous they don't balance pve and pvp accordingly. Well said
    Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    Unkillable builds? Infinite resources? Where do I get some of that?

    Not sure what the percentage of PvE players are that have that but I sure don't see 'em. I'm a 'normal' player and don't go near 'elite' content or the gear that it generates. Why am I being punished for not getting on the BiS /uber build of the month treadmill?

    Heck, I run a Bosmer magpie healer. Her race limits her blue a bit and she doesn't farm for elite gear. Though she is serious as a heart attack about healing - although as the the shortest healer on the battlefield - I assure you she has neither infinite resources nor is she unkillable. She's been running Seducers since level 50 and she's CP415 now.

    I had vague ideas about healing for more advanced content but the changes associated with MW drive us away from those ideas. The more nerfy the game gets the more casual I find myself playing. I was unhappy losing stun from shards and I am furious about losing major mending.

    Sounds like we are punishing a vast number of players for a problem they don't have.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • Saturnana
    Saturnana
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    lnsane wrote: »
    ZOS has finally decided to do something about the 'unkillable' builds and infinite resource pools...

    This is a PVP issue. Yet, as usual, to fix a PVP problem everyone in the game gets screwed big time. ZOS' refusal to separate the two from a balancing perspective is the single biggest mistake they have made and continue to make.
    Unkillable builds? Infinite resources? Where do I get some of that?

    Not sure what the percentage of PvE players are that have that but I sure don't see 'em. I'm a 'normal' player and don't go near 'elite' content or the gear that it generates. Why am I being punished for not getting on the BiS /uber build of the month treadmill?

    Totally agree with you guys, just paraphrasing a statement of ZOS about them apparently wanting to tackle this for a long time now. And I agree they've gone overboard in more than one way. That's why I'm glad these changes are all part of the PTS and they'll be reviewed and possibly changed before going live. :)
    @Saturnna | PC / EU

    Nâmae Rin : Dragonknight | Dr Milodas Ra'Himo : Templar | Mira Motierre : Sorceress
    Plays-ln-Puddles : Warden  |  Lady Neria : Dragonknight   | Philadore : Nightblade  
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Ha! I do love it when the mortals know they're being manipulated. Makes things infinitely more interesting."
                                      - Sheogorath
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    My concern about PTS testing is that I lack faith that such testing will generate adjustments. I am still smarting over the templar's loss of the tiny 1 mob stun feature of Blazing Spear and have yet to hear a case for why removing it was a good idea. All during the PTS testing there was loud squawking not to drop the stun feature. What did we get? They dropped the stun feature and all the protests and input during PTS testing made exactly zero difference. Plus, this is going live in early June. I'm not sure how much time/tech constraints allow changes to be made based on PTS testing input from players. So my confidence that testing will smooth out the concerns is low.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • darthsithis
    darthsithis
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    It just seems like many changes that might alone have been fine, but all together is going to be quite the experience lol.
    Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    There is a difference between nerfing resource management and what they did.

    The only thing that they ought to of touched was the CP cost reduction and the regen.

    The "sustain" sets that we have were designed with certain cost reduction in mind, the ones that reduce the cost of ablitys per piece and they somehow got it into their head it was a good idea to reduce the cost reduction on these passives too, it is insane and makes abilities cost too much, my breath of life with the same armor and passives unlocked, went from 2.7k to 3.5k. that is way too mucb of a difference.


    They also went overboard with the percentage resource return abilities by capping the return to your level, this ought never change, it provides an interesting choice, resource management or more damage from stacking spell damage or weapon damage.

    Tldr: they went overboard.

    Half the problem is massive pools and regen based on max resources. It is a needed change for cohesive design.

    how is that a problem? now everyone will just stack spell/weapon damage except for sorc who use hardened ward and the pet, maybe. before you could choose what to stack, on my stam toons, i always shot for 40k stam, cause shards would give me more stam back, the redguard passive gave me more stam back, repentance gave me more stam back, halping hand gave me more stam back, this is choice that i made, in all my build, my average weapon damage is 3k, really low by most other build that i have seen.

    unless you are talking about pvp, then you get into the hole argument about balancing pve on pvp rules.

    again i ask, how is having that choice bad?
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