Totally agree

Bump!

Way to tell them how it is! That ought to leave em speechless. Awesome post

HouLiGaN wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Check your inbox! After someone explained to me what's going on here! It makes sense you have no idea what I'm on about

Got it. Thanks.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

I agree with keeping orb the way to gonna be from pts... giving stam if your stam is lower..

But i want luminous to be atleast a little better then orbs... it needs to be unique i say instead of luminous giving one stat or the other give both... dont base it off which ones lowest... and i say make it an aoe multitarget root... not a stun not a disorient but a flat out root... root the adds in a circle down fo ra period of time giving the tank a breather or as a tank giving yourself a breather while you work building your stam back even further with heavy attacks... i dont feel like that would make the ability too op and i feel like it would make templars still unique even if other classes now can gain stam back

Also isnt warden getting a betty netch that can fill their stam back? With out the need for bodies like repent or the stipulation of which ever stat is lowest like shards/orbs?.... i still feel like its unfair that repent is now going to be a first come first serve ability... the one who gets to the dead bodies first will get the stam and anyone else using it is SOL.. that needs to be fix that does not seem fair

Nova is the best AOE ultimate in the game, the damage reduction is amazing+radius+synergy. Rememberance is the best healing ultimate in the game, it's cheap and no one is dying near you when you pop it. Crescent I always thought was bad, but there is Dawnbreaker. Comparing to a DK/Sorcerer, yes your ultimate's do lack for universal builds. For your typical healer build/tank they are great. Only point I thought was not needed, if you're looking for dps simply use Meteor/Soul Assault/Destro Ultimate. We all know that they aren't going to give every class hard hitting single target ultimate's, especially the healer/utility class. Huh? No major mending? Yikes.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

I did read your comment. I have already stated that I'm fine with healers of all classes being able to help provide the group resources. However, what you fail to understand is that I'm opposed to granting other classes unique Templar abilities such as shards without giving Templars something new and unique that the others can't provide. This way healer builds will be more diverse, Templars will have less of a monopoly, but the Templar still needs to retain a unique identity (and abilities) to separate them from the rest. Especially because they're one of the only 2 classes built around healing specifically.


TL;DR

I'm fine with the orb changes contingent upon Templar getting new unique abilities to retain their independence as a class

I cant describe how glad and relieved I am that someone could finally write down what we've all been wanting to say. I do hope this doesn't get lost in the shuffle of the forums because you brought up some excellent points and said it so eloquently. Great job man.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

So would you be ok with dragon knights not being the only class to be able to to successfully physically pull targets too them?... like lets say they changed trapping webs in undaunted skills to a pull that way any class that wants to tank can pull and it's not something unique that dragon knights have... its better than a gap closer in the sense that you'd ont move and you can pull all of those rangers into a tight little package....

Then on top of that the root i suggested earlier.. what if one of the undaunted or fighters guild or mages guild abilities were Abilene to root all those adds you just pulled with a wide area multitarget root.. similar to how dragon knights do it...

I assume if you are ok with orbs being identical to shards... then you are ok with this too

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

I did read your comment. I have already stated that I'm fine with healers of all classes being able to help provide the group resources. However, what you fail to understand is that I'm opposed to granting other classes unique Templar abilities such as shards without giving Templars something new and unique that the others can't provide. This way healer builds will be more diverse, Templars will have less of a monopoly, but the Templar still needs to retain a unique identity (and abilities) to separate them from the rest. Especially because they're one of the only 2 classes built around healing specifically.


TL;DR

I'm fine with the orb changes contingent upon Templar getting new unique abilities to retain their independence as a class

Oh ok I get it your point now, you want to replace Shard with something else? That's fair, it's not something I am against.
Maybe by making Shard a Stun again?

Apart from that, Templar's identity as the best support/healing class is still intact. These are the things that a Templar healer can offer:
1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

As a comparision, this is what a Sorc healer brings to the table:
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

You can see why Templar's identity as the the king in healing is still there.

I don't think we can discuss about Warden's healer just yet? Gina said ZOS are adjusting Warden's MM uptime, so I do not believe Warden will dethrone Templar in healing. DK and Warden might compete for the 2nd healer spot, but Templar healers will always be there, laughing.

Just log into PTS and try it out.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

I did read your comment. I have already stated that I'm fine with healers of all classes being able to help provide the group resources. However, what you fail to understand is that I'm opposed to granting other classes unique Templar abilities such as shards without giving Templars something new and unique that the others can't provide. This way healer builds will be more diverse, Templars will have less of a monopoly, but the Templar still needs to retain a unique identity (and abilities) to separate them from the rest. Especially because they're one of the only 2 classes built around healing specifically.


TL;DR

I'm fine with the orb changes contingent upon Templar getting new unique abilities to retain their independence as a class

Oh ok I get it your point now, you want to replace Shard with something else? That's fair, it's not something I am against.
Maybe by making Shard a Stun again?

Apart from that, Templar's identity as the best support/healing class is still intact. These are the things that a Templar healer can offer:
1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

As a comparision, this is what a Sorc healer brings to the table:
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

You can see why Templar's identity as the the king in healing is still there.

I don't think we can discuss about Warden's healer just yet? Gina said ZOS are adjusting Warden's MM uptime, so I do not believe Warden will dethrone Templar in healing. DK and Warden might compete for the 2nd healer spot, but Templar healers will always be there, laughing.

Just log into PTS and try it out.

Power of light (stam morph) applies minor fracture and minor breach.
Purifying light (magic morph) adds a small hot to allies near the target.

Only one morph applies a debuff.

And i wish both applied it cause as a tank i would much prefer if i could just purifying light for that extra hot around me....

Also someone i think above mentioned blinding light.... why was this taken out? I didnt get a chance to play this game back then by the time it made it to console i think that was removed.....

From what im reading ont he old skill it doesn't seem anymore unfair then other classes having similar abilities for cc... why cant they bring this back?... eclipse is pretty much useless... bring flashes back to replace eclipse...

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

I did read your comment. I have already stated that I'm fine with healers of all classes being able to help provide the group resources. However, what you fail to understand is that I'm opposed to granting other classes unique Templar abilities such as shards without giving Templars something new and unique that the others can't provide. This way healer builds will be more diverse, Templars will have less of a monopoly, but the Templar still needs to retain a unique identity (and abilities) to separate them from the rest. Especially because they're one of the only 2 classes built around healing specifically.


TL;DR

I'm fine with the orb changes contingent upon Templar getting new unique abilities to retain their independence as a class

Oh ok I get it your point now, you want to replace Shard with something else? That's fair, it's not something I am against.
Maybe by making Shard a Stun again?

Apart from that, Templar's identity as the best support/healing class is still intact. These are the things that a Templar healer can offer:
1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

As a comparision, this is what a Sorc healer brings to the table:
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

You can see why Templar's identity as the the king in healing is still there.

I don't think we can discuss about Warden's healer just yet? Gina said ZOS are adjusting Warden's MM uptime, so I do not believe Warden will dethrone Templar in healing. DK and Warden might compete for the 2nd healer spot, but Templar healers will always be there, laughing.

Just log into PTS and try it out.

Power of light (stam morph) applies minor fracture and minor breach.
Purifying light (magic morph) adds a small hot to allies near the target.

Only one morph applies a debuff.

And i wish both applied it cause as a tank i would much prefer if i could just purifying light for that extra hot around me....

Also someone i think above mentioned blinding light.... why was this taken out? I didnt get a chance to play this game back then by the time it made it to console i think that was removed.....

From what im reading ont he old skill it doesn't seem anymore unfair then other classes having similar abilities for cc... why cant they bring this back?... eclipse is pretty much useless... bring flashes back to replace eclipse...

If anything replace Healing Ritual

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

I did read your comment. I have already stated that I'm fine with healers of all classes being able to help provide the group resources. However, what you fail to understand is that I'm opposed to granting other classes unique Templar abilities such as shards without giving Templars something new and unique that the others can't provide. This way healer builds will be more diverse, Templars will have less of a monopoly, but the Templar still needs to retain a unique identity (and abilities) to separate them from the rest. Especially because they're one of the only 2 classes built around healing specifically.


TL;DR

I'm fine with the orb changes contingent upon Templar getting new unique abilities to retain their independence as a class

Oh ok I get it your point now, you want to replace Shard with something else? That's fair, it's not something I am against.
Maybe by making Shard a Stun again?

Apart from that, Templar's identity as the best support/healing class is still intact. These are the things that a Templar healer can offer:
1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

As a comparision, this is what a Sorc healer brings to the table:
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

You can see why Templar's identity as the the king in healing is still there.

I don't think we can discuss about Warden's healer just yet? Gina said ZOS are adjusting Warden's MM uptime, so I do not believe Warden will dethrone Templar in healing. DK and Warden might compete for the 2nd healer spot, but Templar healers will always be there, laughing.

Just log into PTS and try it out.

Power of light (stam morph) applies minor fracture and minor breach.
Purifying light (magic morph) adds a small hot to allies near the target.

Only one morph applies a debuff.

And i wish both applied it cause as a tank i would much prefer if i could just purifying light for that extra hot around me....

Also someone i think above mentioned blinding light.... why was this taken out? I didnt get a chance to play this game back then by the time it made it to console i think that was removed.....

From what im reading ont he old skill it doesn't seem anymore unfair then other classes having similar abilities for cc... why cant they bring this back?... eclipse is pretty much useless... bring flashes back to replace eclipse...

Blinding flashes was a very good skill for us back in the day. Personally I think they should bring it back

GallantGuardian wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I agree with majority of your points, except this.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, the reason that people don't really need to play a Templar anymore has less to do with their heals and more to do with the nerfs to Repentance and Shards. Now that Undaunted Orbs are basically Shards, and Repentance is useless. Why should I play a Templar? The defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good are now accessible to everyone. Including to the classes that don't lose any potential by having a dedicated healing line.

I agree that the nerf to Repentance is completely unnecessary. This nerf shouldn't make it to live. But about group support, we all know that the reason Non-Templar healers aren't even allowed to join a raid is because they don't have any ability that can restore stamina to the group. If we want people to accept non-Templar healers, they need something to restore stamina to the group, otherwise, they are as good as a tank that doesn't taunt and debuff the boss. And if we want to gut the chance of Non-Templar healers to join a raid, we might as well remove Templar's DPS capability, if a Sorc cannot heal then it's only fair if a Templar cannot DPS. If anything is Templar's "defining class mechanics which made the Templar so good", that shouldn't be Shard. It can be Rune Focus, it can be the cleanse+AOE HoT (Ritual), it can be Jabs, Beam, BoL, Repentence/Radiant Aura etc, but not Shard. It's like giving Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK and tell other classes to go screw themselves they are not allowed to tank.

I am not saying that the way ZOS tries to implement Shard and Orb is the best way to do it, hell no, "restoring resources based on the missing percentage" or whatever it is, is over the top clunky. But, other classes need an ability to restore stamina, if they ever want a chance to compete with Templar healers. New skills? Changing an ability in the Undaunted skill line? All good, but other classes need their Shard.

You're viewing things too black and white. I have absolutely 0 issue with sorcs, dks, and night blades being able to built ad healers and doing so effectively.

I'm fine with them having a way to provide the group stamina even with the orbs change.

What I'm not okay with is giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess in order to make these other classes viable. Yes the game needs to support diverse builds, but each class needs to retain independent and unique abilities to separate them from the others.

With Templars having a class specific healing line. There should always be a slight advantage of choosing them over those whom don't have it. But ripping skills from Templar and giving everyone access to them is not the solution to this.

You are missing the point completely. I have a feeling that you haven't read my comment at all, is that true? This is a quick check to see if you actually ready my comment, please answer with yes or no.

You are saying that you are fine with "having a way for other classes to provide the group stamina", but you are not ok with "giving other classes access to unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess", are we talking about the same thing? What do you mean by "unique class defining mechanics that Templars possess"? I will assume that you mean "Shard"?

An ability that restore stamina to the group is not a "slight advantage", it's like giving Heroic Slash and Absorb Magic to DK, not letting other classes to have access to them, denying other classes from having required abilities needed for vet trials, then tell other classes that DK should have the "slight advantage" when it comes to tanking. An ability to feed stamina to the group is a required ability for healers, Templar already has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, and as a matter of fact, in PTS, Templar is still the best class in healing.

I understand that you are upset, and you are not ok with other classes having a way to feed stamina to the group, as it used to be the reason why Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal in a raid. But please understand that whether you are ok or not ok with this, giving other classes a way to feed stamina to the group is for the better of the game. Please think about the game first.

So would you be ok with dragon knights not being the only class to be able to to successfully physically pull targets too them?... like lets say they changed trapping webs in undaunted skills to a pull that way any class that wants to tank can pull and it's not something unique that dragon knights have... its better than a gap closer in the sense that you'd ont move and you can pull all of those rangers into a tight little package....

Then on top of that the root i suggested earlier.. what if one of the undaunted or fighters guild or mages guild abilities were Abilene to root all those adds you just pulled with a wide area multitarget root.. similar to how dragon knights do it...

I assume if you are ok with orbs being identical to shards... then you are ok with this too

Pulling is important, but it isn't as important as feeding stamina to the group. The fact that we see a lot of Templar tanks tanking vet Trials, but we don't see any non-Templar healers proves it. Feeding stamina is right now a job of the healer.

And yes, I have nothing against giving other classes a way to pull targets. Example making Silver Leash pull the target to you, but you will have to click it twice thus making DK's chain more effective.

If you are going to say giving chain to other classes means DK loses its identity, then yeah DK loses its identity to my Nightblade saptank wearing Swarm Mother long ago already. Chain isn't what defines a DK. Igneous Shield is. Ult regen is. The DoT is..