Do we really represent the players?

max_only · April 2017

We can love the game and still offer critique. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

waterfairy · April 2017

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I'm the average player (not casaual but not elite) so I'm one of the majority of players in this game who aren't happy with these changes...my friends share my feelings and many in my guilds as well. On the patch note day nobody in my guild was talking about Morrowind and the things being added, they were only talking about the things being taken away and how it will kill the game for us.

Had they simply separated pve and pvp, making these changes to pvp only, then most people would be ok as most people don't set foot in cyrodiil.

That's interesting since I am also an average player and the people I play with were rather excited about the changes being made. You don't speak for the majority of players when you say that they are unhappy.

On a side note: when are people going to understand that: 1) They aren't going to separate PvE and PvP balancing, per their own words, and 2) The changes being made were needed for PvE balancing just a much, if not more, as for PvP.

I don't hear the monsters complaining and if you can't see that pve and pvp are different and should be treated differently then obviously the nerf blanket to cover all is fine by you.

This is what I mean, thank you for helping to make my point for me. Everyone can obviously see that PvE and PvP are different, but there is an overlapping problem exists in both: it's too easy to sustain resources. The game is designed on resources being a limit to how often you can use abilities and skills, as opposed to skill cooldowns. If there is basically 0 consideration needed to maintain said resources, the balance of the game is ruined.

The game balance was designed to revolve around: damage, survivability, and resource sustain. Upping one of those should have a negativr effect on the other two. Currently, speccing for 100% damage or 100% survivability is achievable with a negligible effect on resource sustain. That's a problem. And it's not just a PvP problem. It poses a PvE problem because 1) The only build choices you have to make are which best 3-4 damage sets to use and 2) DPS becomes so absurdly high that players can essentially skip mechanics of encounters. In other words, it's power creep and it needs to be rolled back.

Absurd dps and infinite sustain only applies to a small portion of players and only affects other players in pvp. I don't have high sustain or dps but until the Morrowind patch hits I'm still able play my part as a dps in vet dungeons.

andreasranasen · April 2017

The reviews are NOT good! I dunno what page u been looking at.

zaria · April 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

The reviews are NOT good! I dunno what page u been looking at.

Who reviews?
has not read any morrowind reviews yet.
Morrowind reviews will anyway be about questing in Morrowind, a bit pvp / battlegrounds and some normal dungeons with low level characters where the nerfs has close to no effects

andreasranasen · April 2017

zaria wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

The reviews are NOT good! I dunno what page u been looking at.

Who reviews?
has not read any morrowind reviews yet.
Morrowind reviews will anyway be about questing in Morrowind, a bit pvp / battlegrounds and some normal dungeons with low level characters where the nerfs has close to no effects

The game in general

And there's already articles out there about how upset the community is over the recent patch notes.

DragonBound · April 2017

Ok first of all not one of you can make a valid assumption about how many visit the forums just because you may not see their replies does not mean they do not visit, many do not leave comments often, your also forgetting other social platforms like reddit. Anyways until someone can actually show real proof these claims are silly and make no sense its almost like your trying to discredit others who are discussing the issues with the game if there are any.

Also gamers today tend to visit the forums way more then before, especially any elder scrolls fan due to the modding community and via steam. So no you do not need to be a huge biased fan to visit the forums. Most mmorpg vets will visit the forums along with others and everyone in game is atleast half way aware of what the test server is and the notes.

uzbachchi · April 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Anyone that posts on these forums is not an "average" player. There's a fan-mentality (which can veer from giddy to hateful in an instant) that everyone here possesses. Average people do not take the time out of their day to discuss/ lament/ praise the nuances of a digital playground on a forum of like-minded souls.

I'm a mediocre-to-average player and I post on here.

But I often regret it because of the level of backbiting and insulting that goes on. That is what probably keeps people off here, not level of fan-mentality. I know there have been days I haven't even bothered to check in here because of elitist snobbery and judgmentalism.

You know things are pretty grim when the subreddit is nicer to people posting than the official forum is.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · April 2017

No, us forum people do not represent most of the players. I'd bet 90% of the players are too busy playing the game and dealing with other things in life to waste much time here.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · April 2017

Here is how it goes for most people that have a large ESO list of guildmates.

1st - Your social guild will probably be split up into 1 of 3 groups: real life friends, PVE players or PVP players. Chances are your real life friends will share similar views to you (they are your friends after all), your PVE guild will look at things from a PVE perspective and your PVP guild will look at things from a PVP perspective.

2nd - It's human nature that a leader or two will develope in these groups. In MMOs the leaders are usually either the best player (uncommonly), the really smart theory crafter (uncommonly), or the loudest (most common).

3rd - The guilds leader will usually rely upon the view of the theory crafter on if changes are good or bad. Once the theory crafter explains their opinion the leader will begin to bark that opinion as fact. The rest of the group will usually fall in line. This is how you end up with "all my friends" and "everyone I know" arguments which get brought to these forums.

Essentially the theory crafters will be the people who set the tone. Personally, as a theory crafter, I've always taken the let's wait, see, experiment and tweak things approach. I've had my main build kneecapped 3 times and buffed once over the last 3 years. Each time I just went back into the lab and figured out something new. I don't feel any of my time is wasted, but rather I'm riding a wave that leads to innovation. Some other theory crafters do not like having their work screwed with and rain fire on these boards.

Long story short, the massive group think that goes on in these forums is mostly a product of which smart person you put your trust in and how loud your guild's leaders repeat that person's opinion.

FuriousFridge · April 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

No the forum doesn't represent. Hardly any Xbox players I play with have ever come here.

Like all forums its the noisy few that are most vocal. Like the sub 1% pop trial guys declaring end game is dead repeatedly while millions of others are blissfully decorating their homes.

Yeah because decorating a player house is soooooooooo important.

Waffennacht · April 2017

I ask EVERYONE I speak with in game if they have ever visited the forums, not once have I received a "yes."

Balamoor · April 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

The forums are mostly an echo chamber of really rabid fans that only encompass an extremely small minority of people. This is no different that people who only get their news from 1 station or people who are extremely into politics.

If you're only inundated with 1 set of extremely radical opinions it's easy to think that everyone thinks that way. Then, when you are challenged by someone with an opposing viewpoint it's easy to think the other person is crazy. The only difference is that unlike politics our echo chamber has the rabid fans of both sides.

THIS^

Back in 2000 Turbine asked for a series of metrics, among the data collected was percentage of players that regularly visited or contributed to the Official forums; it was less than 4% of the customer base. They asked again in February 2009 when LOTRO was at it's peak. Out of almost Three million subscribers, less than 2% visited or contributed to the official forums.

I have heard similar stories from other devlopers

Maybe 8 out of 100 people who play this game even bother with the forums. A post might get 1500 views, but when you consider over 8 million people have purchased this game, that's nothing really. Add into that equation that it's the same 10 or 15 people who constantly hate and doom speak about the game, then you get a pretty clear picture that all the forum hair pulling means exactly jack and ship.

QuebraRegra · April 2017

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Vast majority never use the forums . Even high end console players don't know what they are.

that's just ignorance... I wouldn't call them "high end". Perhaps "high level", but not certainly not informed if they've never delved into some of the topics herein.

Daemons_Bane · April 2017

No, we don't.. we represent ourselves.. The people who use the community forum is only a very small percentage of the playerbase I'd wager

DragonBound · April 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

The forums are mostly an echo chamber of really rabid fans that only encompass an extremely small minority of people. This is no different that people who only get their news from 1 station or people who are extremely into politics.

If you're only inundated with 1 set of extremely radical opinions it's easy to think that everyone thinks that way. Then, when you are challenged by someone with an opposing viewpoint it's easy to think the other person is crazy. The only difference is that unlike politics our echo chamber has the rabid fans of both sides.

THIS^

Back in 2000 Turbine asked for a series of metrics, among the data collected was percentage of players that regularly visited or contributed to the Official forums; it was less than 4% of the customer base. They asked again in February 2009 when LOTRO was at it's peak. Out of almost Three million subscribers, less than 2% visited or contributed to the official forums.

I have heard similar stories from other devlopers

Maybe 8 out of 100 people who play this game even bother with the forums. A post might get 1500 views, but when you consider over 8 million people have purchased this game, that's nothing really. Add into that equation that it's the same 10 or 15 people who constantly hate and doom speak about the game, then you get a pretty clear picture that all the forum hair pulling means exactly jack and ship.

So all because of a test when mmorpgs where not as popular 17 years ago you still think it applies today? Lol ooook buddy.

SquareSausage · April 2017

We deffo don't represent the majority in our views, but generally forum users have more awareness of game mechanics, so its like the learned expert opinion, and current changes proposed will only make it harder for these people to do anything other than run dolmen trains etc.

Really not meaning to sound condescending but its true.

zaria · April 2017

FuriousFridge wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

No the forum doesn't represent. Hardly any Xbox players I play with have ever come here.

Like all forums its the noisy few that are most vocal. Like the sub 1% pop trial guys declaring end game is dead repeatedly while millions of others are blissfully decorating their homes.

Yeah because decorating a player house is soooooooooo important.

It give more pleasure than yet another vMA defensive bow for your mage sorcerer so its an clear win

And yes I should do more for my mansion, so much to do so little time.
Obviously its the group first, people who throw BSW and engine guardian stuff at you has an obvious interrupt.

papadog · April 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I wish if they really wanted player opinion they would make Ingame polls . The forums have never represented the population accurately .

I worry as to where this would take us.

Do you want more sparkle mounts for £40?
Yes
No

They do have an in-game poll system in place. They track what the players spend their time doing and respond accordingly with their development dollars.

Emmagoldman · April 2017

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

We collectively represent the player base, and should speak from our experience and be open to others. We can't speak for the entire community. There are some people that might represent an authority (not as in abusive, as in expert) who may speak for many people. 8 million accounts doesn't necessarily matter if they don't play. Even of the player population, if people do not wish to participate in discussion, their voice is absent. Same if there was a community meeting or workplace shopfloor meeting to discuss problems at work. If you don't participate, you're not taking place in community.

no, we don't.

we are not delegates or representatives.

we come here and speak for ourselves and for ourselves only. to pretend otherwise is dishonest.

" should speak from our experience and be open to others. We can't speak for the entire community" Maybe you missed the first sentence.......

If your confused on authority, I mean it in an academic sense. A heart surgeon is an authority on heart health. A teacher is an authority on pedagogy. You don't have to like certain people, but believe it or not, there are people that understand the mechanics of the game inside and out. Do they have the same "voice" as others? sure. However, I'm willing to take them more seriously.

Maybe the fact that people don't understand this is why we have an anti-vax movement or climate change denial. Everyone has equal opinion right, regardless of actual understanding.......... (that's sarcasm)