NDA partial lift - New Healer Meta

Enslaved · April 2017

DK healer... I guess I will pass that. I have 2 Nords and one Dunmer DK. Not sure if Nords would be able to heal anything at all, and my Dunmer is too much of a pyromaniac to be anything else but twisted f*cking psychopath. Not really a healer material I guess.

Calandrae · April 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

Tasear · April 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

DK healer... I guess I will pass that. I have 2 Nords and one Dunmer DK. Not sure if Nords would be able to heal anything at all, and my Dunmer is too much of a pyromaniac to be anything else but twisted f*cking psychopath. Not really a healer material I guess.

Killer healer..Umm I accept ...you

Tasear · April 2017

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average tempar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

You are right worded it wrong, but until recently there was balance in numbers of each class on leaderboards. The point is Templar aren't pulling anything significantly different from sorrecer dps. In fact sorrecer and Templar are most popular class in raids, though mind you dragon Knights are powerful too, but really we should be making way for nightblades...In such a bad spot...Not to mention we cringe after seeing bows in Pledges.

Fuxo · April 2017

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

SublimeSparo · April 2017

It's discrimination that i can't play a nord stam sorc healer, nerf bow and give it stamina burst heal instead of volley. Or something. I want to heal with double bow and 64pts in health

Tasear · April 2017

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

Why? You honestly can heal just fine just a bit less so there's healthy competitive environment upcoming.

nemisan · April 2017

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Tasear · April 2017

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

You are mad and that's okay, changes are hard.But nothing has really changed you can heal.

We might want to talk about major mending passive from restoration staff. How do you feel about that?

Calandrae · April 2017

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."

It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.

Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.

Part of my problem is the laziness in which it was done. Nothing was taken away? Honestly I wish it had been. I had 2 skills that never left my bar. In their place I have 2 skills I don't see any reason for having them on my bar. Take them away and give me something I want to use. For something. Anything. Don't just nerf the hell out of my skills and call it job done.

It was rebalancing so Templar didn't become a slave to bandage for sustain issues people will have to deal with. Really you avoided slavery. It's a good thing. Dps will have to adjust as Healer we won't be healing them from this pain. It's okay...It's a good pain. Now in regards to healing on Templar you still have powerful healing and support skills and will share one still for the greater good of all Healerkind.

You type this and all I see that you are selfish.

I kinda think the same about some people complaining about sharing a class skill. The so called support (Healers) class doesn't want to share. Well that's not in good healer spirit of you.

I am more then willing to share, just don't make the class skills redundant or useless, ie, shards and orbs on the same cool down doing the same thing, and repentance not sharing Stam like it used to. I don't give a crap about major mending, I over heal all the time, I want to give stam back like I can now. I want to share and support better then rest of the classes cause that was THE main attraction of the class when I started, ie the description at the start of the game, These traveling knights call upon the powers of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka, and stamina to their allies.

So tldr: decouple syngergy from orbs and shards, give repentance group Stam return back.

This we can talk about, but I suppose they were were worried about Templar abusing it two have to support skillls. They need a way to give orbs and shards a niche.

How would you fix it?

Good question, I would leave repentance the way it is, like the way they have left dark deal and conversion alone.

Then I would leave shards alone. I think having percentage based resource return gives an interesting choice, ie stack max stam and get more sustian or stack weapon damage and get more actual damage, though it is clear that zos doesnt agree with this.

Then I would have orbs changed to the way they are in the patch, ie giving the lowest percentage resource, to give a way for other classes a way to give stam back back, I would also return the AOE resource return back to it, it is needed and it supports group play, gives more reason to hit the synergy of you know that the resources are going to help your team and not just yourself and a good way to help with having both stam and mag dps in the group, so even if a mag person somehow activated the return with lower Stam then mag, it would still be of use.

If I really had my way, I would leave all the skills that they have changed, the same that they are on live and just made synergy from blood alter give a percentage stam back. Hell then they could put the synergy from blood alter and shards on the same cool down. This lower percentage resource return is too confusing and too random to be counted on.

Really though, all they need to do was remove the cost reduction from cp. My breath of Life on live costs 2.7k, with worm and 7 light and the full 16% cost from cp. On the pts, in the same armor, it costs 3.5k. that is insane.

I would go further and make it so the cost reduction from light armor, if you had full light on, 7 pieces, match the cost reduction that we are losing from the cp, or at East as close as you can get with round numbers, 5% per piece, up to 35% off. Same with medium. That way you have to make choices in game, more resource management or more max stats from the undaunted passive. May be up that to 2/4% to compensate.

Tasear · April 2017

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

Calandrae · April 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

SublimeSparo · April 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

Revert changes to both and change trapping webs to a new/ different ability with a synergy that restotes stam

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

Revert changes to both and change trapping webs to a new/ different ability with a synergy that restotes stam

I think blood alter is a better one to convert, so that even templars have a good choice to make, ie a heal with a stam return(blood alter) or a dot with Stam return(shards). Not like anyone uses the synergy to heal themselves with blood alter.

Trapping webs ought to be given the caltrops treatment, ie turned into an decent stam AOE dot with the spiders being the thing that distinguishes the skills.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

nemisan · April 2017

Haha, mad... Nope, I did a Deltia, mate tbh...after three years the final straw popped... Your attitude got the blood up a bit... Who the hell are you anyways?

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

Name 3.

SublimeSparo · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

If they had buffed other classes to be competitive with templar healing/ resource management noone would have cared, but gutting templars down to the level of the others is essentially what all the fuss is about.
Even meeting in the middle would have been more preferable

austinwalter87ub17_ESO · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Undaunted Orbs basically got buffed with the Templars unique shards. Nothing hold back sorcs from providing group sustain now.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

Other solution: remove Templar's DPSing capability. As Templars are the only class allowed to heal, it's only fair if Sorcs are the only class that can DPS. Also, DKs are the only class allowed to tank, so remove their DPS capability as well, they dare to pull more single target DPS than mighty Sorc. What about Nightblades, umm, no one wants Nightblades, they are the only class has a skill line dedicated to hiding, so go hide somewhere.

:P

SublimeSparo · April 2017

They could have utilised some unused class morphs for new resource return synergies- lightning flood for sorc healers, refreshing path/ agony for nb's, fragmented shell for dk's etc

Aionna · April 2017

The other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

Shanjijri · April 2017

I am quite happy for my NB healer. Morrowind could be the time to try DK and sorcerer healers...

Aionna · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Anasion wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I understand templars are operating from a position of bias, but you have to accept that before you begin to understand what theyre trying to change here.

That's funny coming from you. Made my day

But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this

LF healer Templar only.

There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.

Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.

Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.

Now everyone else has it.

Whats the point of a Templar?

The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.

Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.

The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.

As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.

Templar's ego? Isn't there a trend in the game where people tend to want to team with what is considered best class in tanking and dps? I am not saying it is correct I am saying that is the mentality of the players in the game.

Does this mean they should they start taking away iconic skills from each class? No

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.

Why would we compare "top templar dps" to "average sorcerer dps" if we follow your philosophy? We should obviously compare average templar dps to average sorc dps and so on, because classes aren't allowed to excel in any part of the game/trinity. And average sorc dps is better than average templar dps, so that is discrimination and bigotry.

And where is my proof? Look at the PvE leaderboards and see how many sorcs are there. And I bet most of them play as dps.

I'm not even saying that's such a terrible thing though. But to you it should be, because you want everyone to be equal and homogenized. Or... maybe that applies just to healing and most importantly, templar healers?

Plus I think you have missed my main point: I would never start "a nerf sorcerer thread" because I don't like to see classes nerfed. I would like to see other classes developed instead, but that's obviously not what ZoS has in mind.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
Should players that play a templar start threads like give me talons, give me overload so i can have a third skill bar and so on? And what if they proceed and do it and put in undaunted or some other skill line will the players of those classes be happy?

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

nemisan wrote: »

Hey, I got it! How about pets are only summoned for 15 seconds, cost 9k to cast and has the same cd on it as orbs... Yeah, and no one shot cystal frag proc either ...sound good? Or what about conjuration is open to all of us, and we can all summon combat pets; does that float your boat? Makes it a bit more like Skyrim, and isn't that what zos wants eso to be?

Indeed, this. But I don't think this is what the OP has in mind. Weird. Every class should learn to share, so we can all go around and be exactly the same.

How about we redirect this a moment, after feel to go back hating me after. We can agree orbs and shards are a bit too similar. How could we change this for both sides to be happy?

I have no idea. I don't develop games for a living nor even for a hobby, because my rl job takes too much time. I play games for fun.

But I do expect the developers to treat all their players fairly, and what is happening to templars is far from that atm. And what has already happened to stamina and NBs for example hasn't been fair either.

So I would expect them to at least study some excellent suggestions other people way more knowledgeable than me have already come up with. If they can't themselves do anything else than nerf, which seems pretty discouraging as they are supposed to be the professionals.

If the idea is for every class to be able to heal equally, then maybe they could start by converting some of the other classes dps skills etc to healing/support? That would make an even playground. As it is templars will end up with useless duplicate skills when our abilities are moved to skill lines that are available to all classes. The other solution would be to just scrap our whole healing skill-line, leave us just with a few class specific healing skills like other classes have and give us other useful skills (like CC, a proper class shield, mobility etc) instead.

I agree with everything that you have said in this thread.
The nerf and loss of iconic skills of the templar isn't something to be happy about. Next patch dragonknights or another class might lose on of theirs should they be thread like "n

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.

But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.

Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.

In the community right now, a healer doesn't feed resources to the group is like a tank who doesn't taunt and debuff the boss.

What unique utility based do you have in mind that can replace the need of feeding resources to the group?

Also other classes can use master restoration and sentinel to feed stamina back ... for magicka and stamina :orbs.They could have made the sentinel monster helm better and could have given more options for healing supporting sets. For example I have seen tanks ,that haven't got chains, use swarm mother to pull mobs.
I don't get why they have to nerf repentance and shards .

I don't agree with the nerf to repentance as well. I wouldn't call the change to shard a "nerf", it is needed to make non-Templar healers viable, but if someone else has a better idea that gives non-Templar healer an ability that can restore stamina to the group, i am all for it.

Using master restro and a monster set is exactly what non-Templar healers have been doing, but guess why people still don't take them: it's not really effective. By using master staff and a monster set, non-Templar healers have to sacrifice one 5-piece set, while Templar healers can wear Worm+SPC and wield a master restro, making them far more superior compared to non-Templar healers.

I fixed previous post because it bugged when i hit reply .

Yes but not all classes are the same and have something different to offer , diversity means that not all have to wear the same sets.

So in my opinion they should make staff count for two slots (so you can wear two sets and monster helm) and can make monster helmets like sentinel better because now is underwhelming. We should have to make hard decisions like should i go for hircine's and worm cult or keep master resto /set / monster helm and add something else for rings and neck..

They should also offer more support sets ( I didn't see any new in pts , correct me if I am wrong). Same goes for monster helmets, healers have the least amount from which to choose.

I think if we had better and equally helpful sets there wouldn't be the need for a healer to only wear spc/worm (hircine's).

Nifty2g · April 2017

The meta wont change unless a class gets a strong heal like breath of life.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

Does ZOS really expect that all those people will just throw their existing templar healers away and create new ones? What is going on here?

What, Templar healers are afraid of competition? Didn't think mighty warriors with all the aedric light and stuffs are afraid of competition.

You guys still have all the edges in the world compared to other classes.

Name 3.

My pleasure.

1) AOE minor magickasteal
2) Minor sorcery to the group
3) Backlash debuff
4) A nice burst heal
5) A nice AOE HoT that can cleanse harmful effects -> Templar's defined mechanics
6) Minor Mending + Meding passive is buffed
which leads to 7) Highest SPC uptime, as a result of Minor Mending + the Mending passive.

Sorc's advantage in healing
1) An Oh--**** button that takes 2 slots on your bar.
2) There's only that one.

MyKillv2.0 · April 2017

I have played a DK healer for about a year now and I love it. I love the changes to Templar as well, it evens the playing field. However with that said, Templars still have a better toolkit but I am OK with that. They should have a better toolkit. They just shouldn't have a monopoly on the healing market like they did before.