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NDA partial lift - New Healer Meta
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »
Templars will still be easier class to heal. It takes more mirco magement to keep bird alive. This is amazing an added complication for new healers. Experience player may enjoy pet heals or pet lovers, but defacto Healer I believe will be Templar while others picking the other 4 for playstle or sheer curiosity.
I don't need an "easy class" to heal with. I need an efficient, functioning, versatile and interesting one. And until I read these patch notes I certainly thought I had one.
You talk about templar healers in a very condescending way. I've played a templar healer for 3 years and gone through several patches and changes with that character. I am a very good healer, capable of the most difficult content the game has to offer (and with decent scores even). I am not a good healer because "templar is easy". I'm good because I've practiced and played, tested different stuff, learned to know my class playing also different roles with it etc. And most of all because all this time I have mainly healed though, I'm extremely familiar with the role by now.
There are countless great healers like me. We didn't pick up templar because "it's easy". We picked the class because it has a full skill-line dedicated to healing. That kinda gives a hint how healing might be something the class is good at, yes? Or at least it should be.
This skill line isn't the only class to have one. Dragon knights have healing and support of skills along with support skills that no other class has, but so do each other class. It's just the templar did have it first and had it best for awhile.
It's still amazing class to heal with and likely to still be first pick for healers, even if I don't wish it
, but I agree some things need to be looked at but it's elder scrolls so a lot of certainly believe this play as you want philsophy. Really sucks for development as the try t make every class competitive at healing, tanking, and DPS.
Im sure it does suck. It also feels a lot of the time like they really don't know where they are going. Like these big balance pushes are so far apart, that we will have one after this one, and it will clean us up some more. But by the time the balance patch after that patch rolls around they will be onto something new, so all bets are off again.0 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭
This skill line isn't the only class to have one. Dragon knights have healing and support of skills along with support skills that no other class has, but so do each other class. It's just the templar did have it first and had it best for awhile.
It's still amazing class to heal with and likely to still be first pick for healers, even if I don't wish it , but I agree some things need to be looked at but it's elder scrolls so a lot of certainly believe this play as you want philsophy. Really sucks for development as the try t make every class competitive at healing, tanking, and DPS.
Okay. Let's say you are right. I want to change my templar healer to an end-game tank. Oops, I can't, because the class totally lacks integral crowd-control skills. Wouldn't work with serious vet trials groups.
Sure I could tank at least the non-dlc vet dungeons with my temp (and I've actually done that). But to become a main tank for a progressive vet trials group - not possible for a templar. Also even though we can play as dps, we are not optimal for that role because1/3 of our skills are heals/support. Magplar was very good for PvE dps for a short while. But for the most part of the games lifespan, Templar dps has been mediocre - like our tanking. (And I'm talking strictly from a PvE view because I know nothing of PvP and don't believe they can balance the game simultaneously for both anyway.)
Why do Templars get only nerfs? Why not give us more tools and useful skills instead of just adding more and more totally useless skills to our class skill-lines? And there already were several of those before these patch notes.
It seems horrible how spiteful many of these "sorcerer/NB etc healers" are. If you wanted to heal so badly, why didn't you just make a templar to begin with? If I'd wanted to tank, I would have made a DK, no doubt about that. I have both a max level NB (has been reduced to crap though over time) and sorc for dps. (I could switch that sorc to a healer if I wanted to, and I will if it becomes necessary. But it's not my main, doesn't have all the achievements and I don't love the class like I love templars.)Edited by Calandrae on April 21, 2017 7:19AM4 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this
LF healer Templar only.
There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.
Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.
Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.
Now everyone else has it.
Whats the point of a Templar?PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »
This skill line isn't the only class to have one. Dragon knights have healing and support of skills along with support skills that no other class has, but so do each other class. It's just the templar did have it first and had it best for awhile.
It's still amazing class to heal with and likely to still be first pick for healers, even if I don't wish it , but I agree some things need to be looked at but it's elder scrolls so a lot of certainly believe this play as you want philsophy. Really sucks for development as the try t make every class competitive at healing, tanking, and DPS.
Okay. Let's say you are right. I want to change my templar healer to a end-game tank. Oops, I can't, because the class totally lacks integral crowd-control skills. Wouldn't work with serious vet trials groups.
Sure I could tank at least the non-dlc vet dungeons with my temp (and I've actually done that). But to become a main tank for a progressive vet trials group - not possible for a templar. Also even though we can play as dps, we are not optimal for that role because the 1/3 of our skills are heals/support. Magplar was very good for PvE dps for a short while. But for the most part of the games lifespan, Templar dps has been mediocre - like our tanking. (And I'm talking strictly from a PvE view because I know nothing of PvP and don't believe they can balance the game simultaneously for both anyway.)
Why do Templars get only nerfs? Why not give us more tools and useful skills instead of just adding more and more totally useless skills to our class skill-lines? And there already were several of those before these patch notes.
I agree you don't have anything like chains, but there's undaunted set for that. If you need to need to do more crowd control there's items like caltrops, frost staff bof blockade or have your DPS do some work. If you talking about the too it's likely for long time after Templar Healers will rule leader boards, what these changes did was made it possible to get completes do for these trials. In that sense I have sense sorc and Templar tanks in vet trials... Even heard nightblades are a things, so yes you can tank I I trials and you will be delivered facto healing class just if you get sloppy there's others eyeing for your job.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »
But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this
LF healer Templar only.
There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.
Shards was the reason people chose Templars over everyone else. The utility Templars brought.
Sorcs and DK's could heal just fine with the resto staff, and brought their own unique tools to a group. But the ability of templars to help others sustain is what made them shine.
Now everyone else has it.
Whats the point of a Templar?
The problem is no they could not. These healers weren't going to get vet trail clears... No matter how good they were.
Templar ego made it so new Healer only picked Templar and old players had to reroll. While cause they didn't have most important ultlty skills bto give stamina. There was no other option even while there was plenty of self substian from tanks or dps.. They would never get picked and would be forced to reroll. This was an issue Templar was only class who had such exclusive skill. Now guess what it cost less than orbs but now orbs give stamina too.
The game has been moving in direction where while you might not be the best if you are skilled enough you can play any role and any class and complete content.
As to say before it was discrimination and segration, but now it's equal opportunity.Edited by Tasear on April 21, 2017 7:35AM2 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭[
I agree you don't have anything like chains, but there's undaunted set for that. If you need to need to do more crowd control there's items like caltrops, frost staff bof blockade or have your DPS do some work. If you talking about the too it's likely for long time after Templar Healers will rule leader boards, what these changes did was made it possible to get completes do for these trials. In that sense I have sense sorc and Templar tanks in vet trials... Even heard nightblades are a things, so yes you can tank I I trials and you will be delivered facto healing class just if you get sloppy there's others eyeing for your job.
And there's that spiteful part again. "There's others eyeing for your job." No there aren't. I'm an integral part of my trials group, we are friends. They know I heal very well, and if templar would become useless for the group, I would just continue healing with a different class(like the sorc I have or a warden I might level). Most semi-serious trials groups work like this, people get to know each other and have fun playing together.
However as it's pretty clear you don't play end-game content, at least not in a progressive manner, this discussions seems pointless. Your tanking examples are a prove of that. And it's okay, the game has much more than just vet trials etc to offer. I enjoy questing, easier group content, exploring, collecting, crafting etc as well.
You also don't seem to understand that many of us "templar healers" could grab a resto staff like right now and start healing most of the content with our sorcs or NBs or DKs, too. But we don't wish to do that because we like our class and have invested so much time and effort into that. I couldn't care less if other classes "compete" with me. Hell, anyone can heal most content if they just use a resto staff and practice a bit.
What I care about is that my class is about to loose so many of the things that made it useful, interesting and functional.
I have never been gloating to another class that has been nerfed. Quite the opposite. I have been sad when my friends have had to abandon their beloved characters in order to be able to keep playing the content they enjoy.
Edited by Calandrae on April 21, 2017 7:38AM10 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭Hooray for homogenised mediocrity?PS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank8 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SublimeSparo wrote: »Hooray for homogenised mediocrity?
No way! Im totally different! My shards are slightly less expensive then orbs! See?! Totally different!5 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »[
I agree you don't have anything like chains, but there's undaunted set for that. If you need to need to do more crowd control there's items like caltrops, frost staff bof blockade or have your DPS do some work. If you talking about the too it's likely for long time after Templar Healers will rule leader boards, what these changes did was made it possible to get completes do for these trials. In that sense I have sense sorc and Templar tanks in vet trials... Even heard nightblades are a things, so yes you can tank I I trials and you will be delivered facto healing class just if you get sloppy there's others eyeing for your job.
And there's that spiteful part again. "There's others eyeing for your job." No there aren't. I'm an integral part of my trials group, we are friends. They know I heal very well, and if templar would become useless for the group, I would just continue healing with a different class(like the sorc I have or a warden I might level). Most semi-serious trials groups work like this, people get to know each other and have fun playing together.
However as it's pretty clear you don't play end-game content, at least not in a progressive manner, this discussions seems pointless. Your tanking examples are a prove of that. And it's okay, the game has much more than just vet trials etc to offer. I enjoy questing, easier group content, exploring, collecting, crafting etc as well.
You also don't seem to understand that many of us "templar healers" could grab a resto staff like right now and start healing most of the content with our sorcs or NBs or DKs, too. But we don't wish to do that because we like our class and have invested so much time and effort into that. I couldn't care less if other classes "compete" with me. Hell, anyone can heal most content if they just use a resto staff and practice a bit.
What I care about is that my class is about to loose so many of the things that made it useful, interesting and functional.
I have never been gloating to another class that has been nerfed. Quite the opposite. I have been sad when my friends have had to abandon their beloved characters in order to be able to keep playing the content they enjoy.
Well..I could say it's pretty clear you are part of the issue. You aren't accepting others. I certainly play end game content and it's lot of dirty fun though new trial is really more interesting. You did say you will still heal for your group, so there's no issue. You can still play and some others can play too.
Before I go the joke was in bad taste bon jobs, but on a serious note healing will become more competitive. LI meant to express one cannot just queue as Healer because they are Templar some things Healers of any class really got away with that made DPS frown on some of us as unskilled or having easy job. In the long run competitive with help the class grow.0 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."2
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Hooray for homogenised mediocrity?
No way! Im totally different! My shards are slightly less expensive then orbs! See?! Totally different!
I think this is an issue. How can we give other Healers a chance to compete will no tearing up Templar indenity . I do feel bad ...Sorta for Templars, but doesn't seem like there really was a better option. There's still unique support skills that define a Templar, but this one had to be shared.0 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Hooray for homogenised mediocrity?
No way! Im totally different! My shards are slightly less expensive then orbs! See?! Totally different!
I think this is an issue. How can we give other Healers a chance to compete will no tearing up Templar indenity . I do feel bad ...Sorta for Templars, but doesn't seem like there really was a better option. There's still unique support skills that define a Templar, but this one had to be shared.
It's obvious you don't feel bad at all and you couldn't care less how ZoS is destroying a classes identity. But like I said, the spitefulness has been so obvious from many people these past couple of days.Edited by Calandrae on April 21, 2017 7:55AM9 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I actually agree with Taesar that Sorcerers, and DK's, should be able to build unique builds in order to also be viable healers.
But tearing down Templars in order to achieve that isn't how you do that.
Something needs to change for your class so that being a healer has its perks for yourself, and the group. Sorcs already have crazy magicka pools and sustain. So sorcs need something utility based in order to be viable as a healer. Something unique, not ripped from Templars.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire6 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Hooray for homogenised mediocrity?
No way! Im totally different! My shards are slightly less expensive then orbs! See?! Totally different!
I think this is an issue. How can we give other Healers a chance to compete will no tearing up Templar indenity . I do feel bad ...Sorta for Templars, but doesn't seem like there really was a better option. There's still unique support skills that define a Templar, but this one had to be shared.
It's obvious you don't feel bad at all and you couldn't care less how ZoS is destroying a classes identity. But like I said, the spitefulness has been so obvious from many people these past couple of days.
I laughed out loud too. But that is ok. We are obviously part of the problem.3 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Hooray for homogenised mediocrity?
No way! Im totally different! My shards are slightly less expensive then orbs! See?! Totally different!
I think this is an issue. How can we give other Healers a chance to compete will no tearing up Templar indenity . I do feel bad ...Sorta for Templars, but doesn't seem like there really was a better option. There's still unique support skills that define a Templar, but this one had to be shared.
such as?
Other than minor sorcery, which a magplar dps easily provides I can't actually think of anything unique Templars now bring to the tablePS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.
Part of my problem is the laziness in which it was done. Nothing was taken away? Honestly I wish it had been. I had 2 skills that never left my bar. In their place I have 2 skills I don't see any reason for having them on my bar. Take them away and give me something I want to use. For something. Anything. Don't just nerf the hell out of my skills and call it job done.3 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.
Part of my problem is the laziness in which it was done. Nothing was taken away? Honestly I wish it had been. I had 2 skills that never left my bar. In their place I have 2 skills I don't see any reason for having them on my bar. Take them away and give me something I want to use. For something. Anything. Don't just nerf the hell out of my skills and call it job done.
It was rebalancing so Templar didn't become a slave to bandage for sustain issues people will have to deal with. Really you avoided slavery. It's a good thing. Dps will have to adjust as Healer we won't be healing them from this pain. It's okay...It's a good pain. Now in regards to healing on Templar you still have powerful healing and support skills and will share one still for the greater good of all Healerkind.0 -
nemisan✭✭✭I am waiting for the nerf hammer to hit home on the sorc and then see how you feel about it, old bean6 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
But he does have a point, how many times were Templar Healers in zone saying Templar healing was the only choice for healing Even before that last year chat looked like this
LF healer Templar only.
There's a lot of bias on both sides, but I am sure we can agree sharing and not hulimating or fellow comrades is a good direction to go. We still need find a good sweet spot, but it's a good direction.
Yup, competition is always great for the game. If you are a Templar healer, it will be a lot of fun to compete with a Nightblade healer for a spot in a raid, and it will also a lot of fun to heal along side a DK healer instead of another Templar. People are not tired of seeing only Templar healers in every kind of content?Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.
Part of my problem is the laziness in which it was done. Nothing was taken away? Honestly I wish it had been. I had 2 skills that never left my bar. In their place I have 2 skills I don't see any reason for having them on my bar. Take them away and give me something I want to use. For something. Anything. Don't just nerf the hell out of my skills and call it job done.
It was rebalancing so Templar didn't become a slave to bandage for sustain issues people will have to deal with. Really you avoided slavery. It's a good thing. Dps will have to adjust as Healer we won't be healing them from this pain. It's okay...It's a good pain. Now in regards to healing on Templar you still have powerful healing and support skills and will share one still for the greater good of all Healerkind.
You type this and all I see that you are selfish.8 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.
The gameplay isn't diverse when every class becomes basically the same. On the contrary.
Sorcs dominate the damage dealing, has been like that for quite a while. Isn't it time to nerf and homogenize your class as well? So everyone can compete with them? Templars included. Because opposite to what you say, that isn't the case atm. (Sorcs turn will come, too, though, if this current trend goes on. But that doesn't make me happy. It makes me disappointed.)
When most of the skills on a full skill-line become useless I would say something is definitely taken away. And that is happening to Templars, and we sure aren't getting anything in return. No CC, no mobility, no useful class shield, no better passives.
But why am I bothering? You don't care about much else than to see templars become useless. And it seems you are getting your wish, so congrats for that.Edited by Calandrae on April 21, 2017 8:30AM8 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am waiting for the nerf hammer to hit home on the sorc and then see how you feel about it, old bean
It already did long ago, they balanced streak so it won't be absued without conquence. It takes over 8k Magicka to actually make enough distance to run away as the 4 meters is useless. Negate ..It negates well nothing much. Mine are gimicky and really only in PvP. Frags is chance proc, storm attach is useless to most dps, overlord power was halved...And I could go on. It seems like sorrecer got away from rebalancing because they were already Targeted, before the summons sorc their was only same yolo sorc. They became obvious in there popular because most skills have no use. So yes sorrecer stamina and Magicka was already touched.
Templars still can tank, dps and heal just fine.Edited by Tasear on April 21, 2017 8:31AM0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Northern_Eve wrote: »
This skill line isn't the only class to have one. Dragon knights have healing and support of skills along with support skills that no other class has, but so do each other class. It's just the templar did have it first and had it best for awhile.
It's still amazing class to heal with and likely to still be first pick for healers, even if I don't wish it , but I agree some things need to be looked at but it's elder scrolls so a lot of certainly believe this play as you want philsophy. Really sucks for development as the try t make every class competitive at healing, tanking, and DPS.
Okay. Let's say you are right. I want to change my templar healer to an end-game tank. Oops, I can't, because the class totally lacks integral crowd-control skills. Wouldn't work with serious vet trials groups.
Sure I could tank at least the non-dlc vet dungeons with my temp (and I've actually done that). But to become a main tank for a progressive vet trials group - not possible for a templar. Also even though we can play as dps, we are not optimal for that role because1/3 of our skills are heals/support. Magplar was very good for PvE dps for a short while. But for the most part of the games lifespan, Templar dps has been mediocre - like our tanking. (And I'm talking strictly from a PvE view because I know nothing of PvP and don't believe they can balance the game simultaneously for both anyway.)
Why do Templars get only nerfs? Why not give us more tools and useful skills instead of just adding more and more totally useless skills to our class skill-lines? And there already were several of those before these patch notes.
It seems horrible how spiteful many of these "sorcerer/NB etc healers" are. If you wanted to heal so badly, why didn't you just make a templar to begin with? If I'd wanted to tank, I would have made a DK, no doubt about that. I have both a max level NB (has been reduced to crap though over time) and sorc for dps. (I could switch that sorc to a healer if I wanted to, and I will if it becomes necessary. But it's not my main, doesn't have all the achievements and I don't love the class like I love templars.)
You can. There are a lot of Templar tanks who have completed vet Trials HM and every kind of content. They are all over the forum, make a thread "Templar tanks Unite!" or something like that and you will see a lot of Templar tanks. In PvP, they are arguably the strongest tank.
You don't get the concept of this game. Classes are not roles, it's not how the game is designed to be. Templar is designed so that they can DD/Heal/Tank, whichever way you want to go. If you want Templar to be the only viable Healer class, then remove their tanking and DPSing capabilites, their tanking is great, their DPS is great, Templar DDs were Meta last patch, right now they are not far behind sorc and way above NB. If a Sorc cannot heal, then it's only fair if Templar cannot tank and DPS. You want to go that way?Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭I am waiting for the nerf hammer to hit home on the sorc and then see how you feel about it, old bean
It already did long ago, they balanced streak so it won't be absued without conquence. It takes over 8k Magicka to actually make enough distance to run away as the 4 meters is useless. Negate ..It negates well nothing much. Mine are gimicky and really only in PvP. Frags is chance proc, storm attach is useless to most dps, overlord power was halved...And I could go on. It seems like sorrecer got away from rebalancing because they were already Targeted, before the summons sorc their was only same yolo sorc. They became obvious in there popular because most skills have no use. So yes sorrecer stamina and Magicka was already touched.
Templars still can tank, dps and heal just fine.
LOL. I can't say anything else. You think templar's haven't been "rebalanced" before this?
Sorcs are the best dps class atm. According to your philosophy there shouldn't be such a thing. Sorcs should be nerfed so they wouldn't be any better than any other class/build combination. That would be in line with everything you have written. Selfish, most def. A good friend of mine has a mag-sorc as his main. He keeps saying the class is broken because it's so OP atm. (And he has played that character since launch.)
Many of us don't want to see a game like that, though. Without any uniqueness to classes, their strengths and weaknesses.
Edited by Calandrae on April 21, 2017 8:39AM3 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.
Part of my problem is the laziness in which it was done. Nothing was taken away? Honestly I wish it had been. I had 2 skills that never left my bar. In their place I have 2 skills I don't see any reason for having them on my bar. Take them away and give me something I want to use. For something. Anything. Don't just nerf the hell out of my skills and call it job done.
It was rebalancing so Templar didn't become a slave to bandage for sustain issues people will have to deal with. Really you avoided slavery. It's a good thing. Dps will have to adjust as Healer we won't be healing them from this pain. It's okay...It's a good pain. Now in regards to healing on Templar you still have powerful healing and support skills and will share one still for the greater good of all Healerkind.
You type this and all I see that you are selfish.
I kinda think the same about some people complaining about sharing a class skill. The so called support (Healers) class doesn't want to share. Well that's not in good healer spirit of you.Edited by Tasear on April 21, 2017 8:37AM0 -
Calandrae✭✭✭✭]
I kinda think the same about some people complaining about sharing a class skill. The so called support (Healers) class doesn't want to share. Well that's not in good healer spirit of you.
Well, we can share for sure. But we want some other unique ability in change. Not just another waste of a slot like both repentance and shards are going to be after this. Because after this happens 2/5 skills of the "Restoring Light" skill-line will be useless, and the ulti semi-useless (PvE again).
Edited by Calandrae on April 21, 2017 8:47AM2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.
Part of my problem is the laziness in which it was done. Nothing was taken away? Honestly I wish it had been. I had 2 skills that never left my bar. In their place I have 2 skills I don't see any reason for having them on my bar. Take them away and give me something I want to use. For something. Anything. Don't just nerf the hell out of my skills and call it job done.
It was rebalancing so Templar didn't become a slave to bandage for sustain issues people will have to deal with. Really you avoided slavery. It's a good thing. Dps will have to adjust as Healer we won't be healing them from this pain. It's okay...It's a good pain. Now in regards to healing on Templar you still have powerful healing and support skills and will share one still for the greater good of all Healerkind.
You type this and all I see that you are selfish.
I kinda think the same about some people complaining about sharing a class skill. The so called support (Healers) class doesn't want to share. Well that's not in good healer spirit of you.
I am more then willing to share, just don't make the class skills redundant or useless, ie, shards and orbs on the same cool down doing the same thing, and repentance not sharing Stam like it used to. I don't give a crap about major mending, I over heal all the time, I want to give stam back like I can now. I want to share and support better then rest of the classes cause that was THE main attraction of the class when I started, ie the description at the start of the game, These traveling knights call upon the powers of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka, and stamina to their allies.
So tldr: decouple syngergy from orbs and shards, give repentance group Stam return back.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 21, 2017 8:50AM4 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »I am waiting for the nerf hammer to hit home on the sorc and then see how you feel about it, old bean
It already did long ago, they balanced streak so it won't be absued without conquence. It takes over 8k Magicka to actually make enough distance to run away as the 4 meters is useless. Negate ..It negates well nothing much. Mine are gimicky and really only in PvP. Frags is chance proc, storm attach is useless to most dps, overlord power was halved...And I could go on. It seems like sorrecer got away from rebalancing because they were already Targeted, before the summons sorc their was only same yolo sorc. They became obvious in there popular because most skills have no use. So yes sorrecer stamina and Magicka was already touched.
Templars still can tank, dps and heal just fine.
LOL. I can't say anything else. You think templar's haven't been "rebalanced" before this?
Sorcs are the best dps class atm. According to your philosophy there shouldn't be such a thing. Sorcs should be nerfed so they wouldn't be any better than any other class/build combination. That would be in line with everything you have written.
Many of us don't want to see a game like that, though. Without any uniqueness to classes, their strengths and weaknesses.
Where's your proof? I think this is simply perception or zos would of done something if it was true. The top Templar dps is out performing the average sorrecer. Just look at some trial parses. It's simply sorrecer are flashy and have better aoe so are hiding in stacked numbers. I suggest if you feel I am wrong then start a Nerf sorrecer tread.
The world skills and guild skills were already taking other class skills and repurposing them, spell entropy, bone shield, wind sprinting, siphon spirit and which a can be said to be class skillls. Much of these is going in circles if you don't want to share class skillls please start a trend " Templar are only healers" , "I don't want to share class skillls" . I am sure you will get agreement you are looking to obtain, but before this gets any more bitter we can just agree to disagree and push for the changes we like to see.
Still holding dreams on housing storage and farming .... Jelewery crafting...0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »It's like "I want a fast and flashy sports car" and then I buy a family wagon and start yelling: "This is discrimination and segregation, every car should be able to do everything."
It's unfortunate, but elder scrolls phisophy had always been welcome to diverse gameplay. You can be Templar tanks which are trending as often as dragon Knights, Templar Healers are being still going to be popular, and their DPS is toppling sorrecer average. But on point the game has reached point where while you won't be the top you can still compete. Which was done by releasing the templar skill free from just a class line.
Nothing was taken away just shared and modifitied to fix DPS ceiling that was occurring. Gina already said this. I would simply start looking in ways you can be competitive with more people trying healing on other classes.
Part of my problem is the laziness in which it was done. Nothing was taken away? Honestly I wish it had been. I had 2 skills that never left my bar. In their place I have 2 skills I don't see any reason for having them on my bar. Take them away and give me something I want to use. For something. Anything. Don't just nerf the hell out of my skills and call it job done.
It was rebalancing so Templar didn't become a slave to bandage for sustain issues people will have to deal with. Really you avoided slavery. It's a good thing. Dps will have to adjust as Healer we won't be healing them from this pain. It's okay...It's a good pain. Now in regards to healing on Templar you still have powerful healing and support skills and will share one still for the greater good of all Healerkind.
You type this and all I see that you are selfish.
I kinda think the same about some people complaining about sharing a class skill. The so called support (Healers) class doesn't want to share. Well that's not in good healer spirit of you.
I am more then willing to share, just don't make the class skills redundant or useless, ie, shards and orbs on the same cool down doing the same thing, and repentance not sharing Stam like it used to. I don't give a crap about major mending, I over heal all the time, I want to give stam back like I can now. I want to share and support better then rest of the classes cause that was THE main attraction of the class when I started, ie the description at the start of the game, These traveling knights call upon the powers of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka, and stamina to their allies.
So tldr: decouple syngergy from orbs and shards, give repentance group Stam return back.
This we can talk about, but I suppose they were were worried about Templar abusing it two have to support skillls. They need a way to give orbs and shards a niche.
How would you fix it?Edited by Tasear on April 21, 2017 8:55AM0
