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Kudos to ZOS
pugyourself
✭✭✭✭
As someone who was extremely critical of ZOS in the early days (mostly around the switch from sub to B2P and the Crown store, which eventually turned out quite nicely), I have to say kudos to ZOS for their attempts to fix PVP in this patch. Let's remember what they did. They solicited feedback from some really great PVP'ers (like @FENGRUSH ) and actually made some really bold moves to try to fix PVP in this game. That took guts.
The unknown is always scary and stressful, so I understand some initial anger. But we will adjust, find builds that work, and (most of us) continue to play this game that we all love.
The worst thing would have been to do nothing to fix PVP. Instead, ZOS listened to players, made a bold and gutsy initial stab at re-balancing, and continues to solicit feedback. I can't fault them at all for that. IMHO, if we think long-term, these changes are better for the game than maintaining the status quo. Looking forward to some serious Morrowind theorycrafting.
The unknown is always scary and stressful, so I understand some initial anger. But we will adjust, find builds that work, and (most of us) continue to play this game that we all love.
The worst thing would have been to do nothing to fix PVP. Instead, ZOS listened to players, made a bold and gutsy initial stab at re-balancing, and continues to solicit feedback. I can't fault them at all for that. IMHO, if we think long-term, these changes are better for the game than maintaining the status quo. Looking forward to some serious Morrowind theorycrafting.
20
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Mashille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Edit: I'm not disagreeing or agreeing here I... My... My mind isn't working anymore with all these opposite opinions.Edited by Mashille on April 21, 2017 12:56AMHouse Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'3 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Not even Fengrush has it all figured out. His disdain for Templar made him infallible as wellPC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire10 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's actually quiet refreshing after you get over the initial shock. The different opinions are because this happened this afternoon.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337456/nda-partial-lift-new-healer-meta/p1?new=1
2 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »Not even Fengrush has it all figured out. His disdain for Templar made him infallible as well
I'm not saying it's all good. There hasn't been enough time to test it to say how it will all shake out. I am saying that I applaud them for making a bold attempt to fix PVP. The safest thing would have been to do nothing but the game would have suffered for that.1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »Not even Fengrush has it all figured out. His disdain for Templar made him infallible as well
I know it sucks that your magplar is nerfed, I main a PvP stamplar god damn it, but for a moment, please think about the changes. They are needed, for the good of the game.
Don't be the kind of person who goes batshit crazy just because his main is nerfed, think rationally about the nerfs. Oh this one is actually justified. Oh, this is not too bad. Oh, but this one is completely ***. Make a thread, expressing your opinion in a constructive way, instead of going batshit crazy just because non-Templar healers now have a chance to compete with Templar healers.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭I absolutely agree OP. Bold changes are best.
As a professional firearms instructor, I take the same approach to sighting in a rifle. Large, bold adjustments, then come back a little if it needs it.
Yes, some of these changes are a little extreme if they go live with no change in the difficulty some vet dungeons. It's likely that they will be unsurpassable from the get-go. However it will be something that is heard, and quickly adjusted. And we'll end up with a game that is fairly balanced, with a "!" on managing resources. Which is ZOS's original plan/intention.
Cheers to theory crafting!1 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »As someone who was extremely critical of ZOS in the early days (mostly around the switch from sub to B2P and the Crown store, which eventually turned out quite nicely), I have to say kudos to ZOS for their attempts to fix PVP in this patch. Let's remember what they did. They solicited feedback from some really great PVP'ers (like @FENGRUSH ) and actually made some really bold moves to try to fix PVP in this game. That took guts.
The unknown is always scary and stressful, so I understand some initial anger. But we will adjust, find builds that work, and (most of us) continue to play this game that we all love.
The worst thing would have been to do nothing to fix PVP. Instead, ZOS listened to players, made a bold and gutsy initial stab at re-balancing, and continues to solicit feedback. I can't fault them at all for that. IMHO, if we think long-term, these changes are better for the game than maintaining the status quo. Looking forward to some serious Morrowind theorycrafting.
And they killed pve in the process congrats to the selfish pvpers. Now take your wrecking blow spam and go farm trials for gear. Have fun sitting on alessia bridge.
You just ruined the game for 80 percent of the player population.7 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Splattercat_83 wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »As someone who was extremely critical of ZOS in the early days (mostly around the switch from sub to B2P and the Crown store, which eventually turned out quite nicely), I have to say kudos to ZOS for their attempts to fix PVP in this patch. Let's remember what they did. They solicited feedback from some really great PVP'ers (like @FENGRUSH ) and actually made some really bold moves to try to fix PVP in this game. That took guts.
The unknown is always scary and stressful, so I understand some initial anger. But we will adjust, find builds that work, and (most of us) continue to play this game that we all love.
The worst thing would have been to do nothing to fix PVP. Instead, ZOS listened to players, made a bold and gutsy initial stab at re-balancing, and continues to solicit feedback. I can't fault them at all for that. IMHO, if we think long-term, these changes are better for the game than maintaining the status quo. Looking forward to some serious Morrowind theorycrafting.
And they killed pve in the process congrats to the selfish pvpers. Now take your wrecking blow spam and go farm trials for gear. Have fun sitting on alessia bridge.
You just ruined the game for 80 percent of the player population.
All of the changes are not driven solely from PvP - not at all. A lot of these changes are purely from PVE actually.
But way to keep it constructive! At the end of the day - if you can complete the PVE with the changes - then how is it 'bad'. How is it 'ruined'? ZOS didnt like endless resources for PVP, or the simplicity of PVE.
Unless you think the endless hail nerf was to stop all of the PvP players from reigning down arrows on all of Cyrodiil. Or caltrops was changed to stack and its duration to be a PVE stam rotation skill.4 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have played daily for three years this is the worst patch I have seen. Most of the real content like VMol, VMA, CoS, ICP, ROM, WGT is not going to be doable. Enrage timers are built in to many of these making a dps race required (not optional). They are not designed to bring your new c game. I am very thankful for our multiple 76 k hits to 111 k hits I received today. Thank you very much.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.3 -
K4RMA✭✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.nerf mdk3 -
Amayna✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.
You forgot
No more will there be PvE players because of PvP nerfs
2 -
K4RMA✭✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.
You forgot
No more will there be PvE players because of PvP nerfs
It just means those players who do dungeons in 10 minutes will have to work a little harder for their 300 gold and prosperous lootsnerf mdk5 -
ProfessorKittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every time a new patch comes out and shakes things up people get their knickers in a twist. Craglorn, Orsinium, One Tamriel... And yet they adapt to the changes and move on. Such seems to be the nature of mmo's. Sure there may be alot of bad about these changes at the moment, but we are still over a month away from Morrowind going live and things could still change.
At any rate, I've enjoyed what I've seen of Morrowind so far and can't wait to play it live.2 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm still holding off my thoughts because we have a way to go but there are so many things , if dialed in correctly , will make this patch better then all the rest . We have a player base that has been fed resources so high the addiction is like crack addicts . I know several very good players that will be very pleased with this as long as the issues get dialed in .
There is truly a lot of unnecessary panic right now , but also some valid frustrations . I will most likely be purchasing this release day .0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »Every time a new patch comes out and shakes things up people get their knickers in a twist. Craglorn, Orsinium, One Tamriel... And yet they adapt to the changes and move on. Such seems to be the nature of mmo's. Sure there may be alot of bad about these changes at the moment, but we are still over a month away from Morrowind going live and things could still change.
At any rate, I've enjoyed what I've seen of Morrowind so far and can't wait to play it live.
Agreed it share did look very scary on paper, but gameplay is fun for our characters. It's not the end, but a new beginning.0 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »As someone who was extremely critical of ZOS in the early days (mostly around the switch from sub to B2P and the Crown store, which eventually turned out quite nicely), I have to say kudos to ZOS for their attempts to fix PVP in this patch. Let's remember what they did. They solicited feedback from some really great PVP'ers (like @FENGRUSH ) and actually made some really bold moves to try to fix PVP in this game. That took guts.
The unknown is always scary and stressful, so I understand some initial anger. But we will adjust, find builds that work, and (most of us) continue to play this game that we all love.
The worst thing would have been to do nothing to fix PVP. Instead, ZOS listened to players, made a bold and gutsy initial stab at re-balancing, and continues to solicit feedback. I can't fault them at all for that. IMHO, if we think long-term, these changes are better for the game than maintaining the status quo. Looking forward to some serious Morrowind theorycrafting.
Let's see.- DK completely ruined. Only role from now on is balista/oil operator. Guess DK was too much OP in PvP, so Zos had to slightly nerf every single class defining passive for it.
- Templar pretty much became a plant. Some nerfs are welcomed, but why on Nirn would you remove group stamina return from repent and major mending from a dedicated healer class? What a load of crap.
- Nightblade was so much op so Zos decided to remove stealth damage, cripple bonus stealth speed sets, I mean, what is the point in playing sNB for example, from now on? Squishiest class in game, one trick pony got their legs tied and that's it.
- Sorcerer nerfs compared to rest of the classes are zero. Great balancing, Zos!
6 -
lookstwice✭✭✭I just want to go fast in stealth while I do my crafting dailies and that's gone now.
Makes me sad.
I really didn't do much of anything else during the week. Then a random normal dungeon, some of the undaunted dailies, skyshard collecting and leveling of other toons on the weekend.
1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.
You forgot
No more will there be PvE players because of PvP nerfs
It just means those players who do dungeons in 10 minutes will have to work a little harder for their 300 gold and prosperous loots
Who are these players? I'm not one of them and I've never grouped with one of them. It took us hours to finish nWGT....
If you are talking about the people on leaderboards doing speed runs is that even 1% of the population?
Infinite BOL? Really? Since when? Last pug that made me switch to BOL from Combat Prayer, I was guzzling pots.
Infinite resources AND maximum damage? Certainly not on my nightblade.
Youtubers and minmaxers aren't the majority of the pve population.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.
You forgot
No more will there be PvE players because of PvP nerfs
It just means those players who do dungeons in 10 minutes will have to work a little harder for their 300 gold and prosperous loots
Who are these players? I'm not one of them and I've never grouped with one of them. It took us hours to finish nWGT....
If you are talking about the people on leaderboards doing speed runs is that even 1% of the population?
Infinite BOL? Really? Since when? Last pug that made me switch to BOL from Combat Prayer, I was guzzling pots.
Infinite resources AND maximum damage? Certainly not on my nightblade.
Youtubers and minmaxers aren't the majority of the pve population.
hours to do normal WGT?0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.
You forgot
No more will there be PvE players because of PvP nerfs
It just means those players who do dungeons in 10 minutes will have to work a little harder for their 300 gold and prosperous loots
Who are these players? I'm not one of them and I've never grouped with one of them. It took us hours to finish nWGT....
If you are talking about the people on leaderboards doing speed runs is that even 1% of the population?
Infinite BOL? Really? Since when? Last pug that made me switch to BOL from Combat Prayer, I was guzzling pots.
Infinite resources AND maximum damage? Certainly not on my nightblade.
Youtubers and minmaxers aren't the majority of the pve population.
hours to do normal WGT?
First time runners. Not all of us had cp. The teamwork and coordination required for the Planar Inhibitor and the dps required for Molag Kena was difficult to accomplish.
I know most nerds "study" YouTube videos of dungeons before even attempting them but it turns out us casual scrubs like to experience the game freshly without spoilers at least the first time round.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.
You forgot
No more will there be PvE players because of PvP nerfs
It just means those players who do dungeons in 10 minutes will have to work a little harder for their 300 gold and prosperous loots
Who are these players? I'm not one of them and I've never grouped with one of them. It took us hours to finish nWGT....
If you are talking about the people on leaderboards doing speed runs is that even 1% of the population?
Infinite BOL? Really? Since when? Last pug that made me switch to BOL from Combat Prayer, I was guzzling pots.
Infinite resources AND maximum damage? Certainly not on my nightblade.
Youtubers and minmaxers aren't the majority of the pve population.
hours to do normal WGT?
First time runners. Not all of us had cp. The teamwork and coordination required for the Planar Inhibitor and the dps required for Molag Kena was difficult to accomplish.
I know most nerds "study" YouTube videos of dungeons before even attempting them but it turns out us casual scrubs like to experience the game freshly without spoilers at least the first time round.
not sure if your feeling sorry for yourself or sarcastic, maybe focus that into your playing and things will improve for you. the games developing in your favor.0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm optimistic at these changes. All I could do reading the natch potes was smile because I saw the potential coming out of Morrowind.
No more will there be infinite roll dodge infinite heals infinite damage stam sorcs
No more will there be spammy spammy breath of no lifers because they'll actually run out of magicka now
No more will there be an infinite resources maximum damage meta.
ZOS I applaud you, as like the OP, I was once a heavy critic of your actions. I see the direction you're taking this game and I can't wait to see the fruit of your labour.
Heck, might even warrant me returning to the game for the 20th time.
You forgot
No more will there be PvE players because of PvP nerfs
It just means those players who do dungeons in 10 minutes will have to work a little harder for their 300 gold and prosperous loots
Who are these players? I'm not one of them and I've never grouped with one of them. It took us hours to finish nWGT....
If you are talking about the people on leaderboards doing speed runs is that even 1% of the population?
Infinite BOL? Really? Since when? Last pug that made me switch to BOL from Combat Prayer, I was guzzling pots.
Infinite resources AND maximum damage? Certainly not on my nightblade.
Youtubers and minmaxers aren't the majority of the pve population.
hours to do normal WGT?
First time runners. Not all of us had cp. The teamwork and coordination required for the Planar Inhibitor and the dps required for Molag Kena was difficult to accomplish.
I know most nerds "study" YouTube videos of dungeons before even attempting them but it turns out us casual scrubs like to experience the game freshly without spoilers at least the first time round.
not sure if your feeling sorry for yourself or sarcastic, maybe focus that into your playing and things will improve for you. the games developing in your favor.
Neither. I play games to relax not to be stressed out. I "focus" on enjoyment. The Templar changes I can handle for myself in solo pve, but the low skill level groups I heal can't go without demanding/gobbling shards or criticizing my racial choice because some minmaxer told them to. I've never had dps as a goal, always sustain so I'm not complaining that I have to have recovery glyphs - I already have. I don't have more than 15% in my recovery constellations either. So no big deal for me by myself. I'm talking about the lowest common denominator players in group play.
That's for my healer. As for my nightblade tank, changing my siphoning attacks to have unnecessary health restore isn't a buff. I restore my health with 3 or 4 skills already. Even with all my sustain gear and glyphs I still heavy attack to keep topped up. Since I don't pvp, the changes in ganking don't affect me but just because it doesn't affect me doesn't mean it's okay. What are nightblades good at? I've yet to find an answer that isn't "surprise attacks" Very few have faith in a saptank for normal pugs, certainly can't 1vx people in pvp, fourth in line for dps in pve. Why further gimp the runt class?#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
ScooberSteve✭✭✭✭Splattercat_83 wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »As someone who was extremely critical of ZOS in the early days (mostly around the switch from sub to B2P and the Crown store, which eventually turned out quite nicely), I have to say kudos to ZOS for their attempts to fix PVP in this patch. Let's remember what they did. They solicited feedback from some really great PVP'ers (like @FENGRUSH ) and actually made some really bold moves to try to fix PVP in this game. That took guts.
The unknown is always scary and stressful, so I understand some initial anger. But we will adjust, find builds that work, and (most of us) continue to play this game that we all love.
The worst thing would have been to do nothing to fix PVP. Instead, ZOS listened to players, made a bold and gutsy initial stab at re-balancing, and continues to solicit feedback. I can't fault them at all for that. IMHO, if we think long-term, these changes are better for the game than maintaining the status quo. Looking forward to some serious Morrowind theorycrafting.
And they killed pve in the process congrats to the selfish pvpers. Now take your wrecking blow spam and go farm trials for gear. Have fun sitting on alessia bridge.
You just ruined the game for 80 percent of the player population.
Dont blame us pvpers for this awful patch. Where not the ones running dungeons on absolutely no regen. If ypu just welcomed the noobs more they wouldnt have nerfed everythingEdited by ScooberSteve on April 21, 2017 7:26AM2 -
ZOS_JohanaB✭✭✭✭Some post have been removed from this thread for bait and nonconstructive comments. Please remember to follow the community rules as you continue to post in the future.0 -
lunalitetempler✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »Not even Fengrush has it all figured out. His disdain for Templar made him infallible as well
What changes are there really? So no more major mending, we get more healing the lower hp so its actually fine. spears? thats not a nerf, so what other classes can now use orbs, why is that bad? thats a good thing. Bol? telling me he cant aim a little bit more meaningful? it stops the face roll bol spammers. I've still yet to hear a decent argument about how the changes are terrible nerfs.0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »Yes kudos for letting sorc still be broken.
Sorc is not broken. Shields and streak were previously nerfed hard. What is broken is Pirate Skeleton. And Amber Plasm should probably be looked at. But those are set issues, not class issues.0
