Are Changes going to make Bad players Better and Good players Less Good?

kylewwefan · April 2017

It's what it really seems aimed to do to me anyways. I'm ok with it, cause I need all the help I can get.

I also don't even get why anyone is complaining about the Warden. Isn't everyone planning on making one anyways?

AzraelKrieg · April 2017

They will make the bad players worse and the good players less good.

SBC · April 2017

I'm going to play regardless so I'm just avoiding all the turmoil threads. But yes, I had all intentions of making a warden anyway.

Banana · April 2017

If ya a bit ***. You will be even more ***. Like me

Aquanova · April 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

They will make the bad players worse and the good players less good.

^ This!

MNsnowtaTy · April 2017

Same here, I planned on making a Warden class. If it meant making him relevant with Templars so be it. They'll buff and nerf things for the entirety of this game, so my guess is to make both relevant for awhile and then they'll get some buffs back to complacency down the road.

Lynx7386 · April 2017

No, if anything the resource changes will have more of a negative impact on average/poor players. Experienced players will find ways to refine their builds but will still be ultimately weaker than before.

White wabbit · April 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

No, if anything the resource changes will have more of a negative impact on average/poor players. Experienced players will find ways to refine their builds but will still be ultimately weaker than before.

This ^^^^

Magdalina · April 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

They will make the bad players worse and the good players less good.

Beat me to it. I believe some of the best will adjust and be (almost) as good as they are now. The good ones will adjust and be just a bit weaker. The not so good ones? Yeah...no.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · April 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

It's what it really seems aimed to do to me anyways. I'm ok with it, cause I need all the help I can get.

I also don't even get why anyone is complaining about the Warden. Isn't everyone planning on making one anyways?

It is. They call it closing the gap. I guess it sounds better then handicap and crutch. Or pulling the sky down. It is a stated goal.

zaria · April 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

They will make the bad players worse and the good players less good.

Yes, with some modifications, the light attack brigade will not get affected at all.
The top players will be hit but will adjust.
The middle layer as in the ones you mostly meed in pugs will be hit hardest as they mostly don't read guides and use that tips they pick up they will also use a long time farming new gear

Zvorgin · April 2017

The gap between good and bad players will be widened, which is a good thing as at least player skill will come back into play. That is unless the bad player is on a warden and the good player is not.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · April 2017

zaria wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

They will make the bad players worse and the good players less good.

Yes, with some modifications, the light attack brigade will not get affected at all.
The top players will be hit but will adjust.
The middle layer as in the ones you mostly meed in pugs will be hit hardest as they mostly don't read guides and use that tips they pick up they will also use a long time farming new gear

Sort of what I think as well. I guess we will see.

kylewwefan · April 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

They will make the bad players worse and the good players less good.

I really don't see it this way. I think the CP changes are gonna rock everything. You'll use 1/2 the CP to get 3/4 the max value of things. Mighty gets changed to 15% and 50 CP gets you 12.5% of it.

Think of the really bads right now. Light bow attacking while spamming caltrops type of bad. Their craptastic rotation and button spamming will undoubtedly get stronger with less CP distributed amongst more trees.

I'm thinking the double bow might finally become a viable thing. DW/ Resto.....

Things that don't work so great right now aren't gonna suck quite as hard, but nothing is really.

oranje_elf · April 2017

I am in favor of "bad players worse and the good players less good", but there is one reason why "bad" players will suffer less. Good players burn their resources quicker by essentially making their rotation more efficient (by doing animation cancelling, thus having quicker rotation, thus burning their resources fast). "Bad" players have their current burning rate lower, and thus, will suffer less from less sustain. Of course, this applies only to those "bad" players who do not have sustain issues at the moment due to "slow" fingers ;-).

Kay1 · April 2017

The good players will be less good and the bad players will be very very bad to a point that Trials and most vet dungeons won't even be possible for them.

The elitism will be as high as ever and that's what is sad, my gf already get kicked from groups in vet because she don't have max cp so now that dungeons will only be possible if you follow the meta and you are 630cp with golden gear I really don't know how will new players evolve in the game?

I'm quite happy to have everything I need and want but the new players? Whao poor guys lol.

Pallio · April 2017

Casual noob players see the changes as cool new content, if they are even aware of what is coming.

Veteran Hardcore players realize everyrhing they did before is getting nerfed to the ground.

Just a matter of perspective, 2 sides of the coin.

coop500 · April 2017

Not me, for one I just bought the game in December and I cannot afford the game all over again, price wise, so soon. Of course I'd love to play a warden but... money gate so *shrug*.

I am a halfway new player, I do not have the best gear and all, my best gear is crafted, so yeah I kinda worry about my fate in being able to do anything serious. I see myself wandering and collecting skyshards/using treasure maps/casual questing until they fix their mistakes.

sekou_trayvond · April 2017

That random troll in pug groups though, who is a DPS but did nothing but heavy attacks with resto staff? That dude just became hella good :-)

idk · April 2017

Good players will adapt. Theorycrafters are already at work.

A large portion of the population will suffer. Tanks ans healers not good at managing their resources will be the most challenged since it will take more active management.

There are healers that run out of magika in craglorn trials and have about 3k magika regen while others never run out will about 1k regen. Tanks relied heavily on shards will he challenged to find other way to manage their resources.

flguy147ub17_ESO · April 2017

Good players will dominate more, the more difficult things are and now more resource management, They will theorycraft to get every inch of sustain and damage out of it. The majority of players will just throw on magicka or stamina sets and get absolutely destroyed in PVP atleast and my guess in PVE as well.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2017

The short answer is yes. Sustain has been nerfed so bad that the more complicated end game PVE DPS rotations (what the "good" players do) might not be viable any longer, which makes way for a much less skillful heavy attack rotation. If you have 2 thumbs, you can pull 35k with a heavy attack build. It's obviously too soon to know how everything will play out, but it seems that there is a decent chance that the most complicated and highest DPS rotations will no longer be the same thing.

zaria · April 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

They will make the bad players worse and the good players less good.

I really don't see it this way. I think the CP changes are gonna rock everything. You'll use 1/2 the CP to get 3/4 the max value of things. Mighty gets changed to 15% and 50 CP gets you 12.5% of it.

Think of the really bads right now. Light bow attacking while spamming caltrops type of bad. Their craptastic rotation and button spamming will undoubtedly get stronger with less CP distributed amongst more trees.

I'm thinking the double bow might finally become a viable thing. DW/ Resto.....

Things that don't work so great right now aren't gonna suck quite as hard, but nothing is really.

The real bad as in light attack brigade will not be affected, snipe and shard spammers will

sekou_trayvond wrote: »

That random troll in pug groups though, who is a DPS but did nothing but heavy attacks with resto staff? That dude just became hella good :-)

He becomes relatively better and is unlikely to run out of magic

Ran into an cp600 in an delve, sorcerer with 2 pets doing only light attacks.

As I did the undauted dailies I did another delve on another characrer, was followed by an khajiit doing only light attacks with bow, slowed down a bit so he should get in some hits after enemies was dead I took damage and realize that the Khajiit I tried to help was an mob attacking me

Gothlander · April 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

No, if anything the resource changes will have more of a negative impact on average/poor players. Experienced players will find ways to refine their builds but will still be ultimately weaker than before.

This

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

I personally think that the upcoming changes will make: Great players good, good players mediocre, mediocre players bad, and bad players terrible. As for the terrible players, I'm assuming that they'll leave the game promptly after the hype has calmed upon Morrowind's launch.

A bit off-topic however, I always intended upon having a MagDen (magicka-based Warden), and from the looks of things will be making a StamDen (stamina-based Warden).

Tyrion87 · April 2017

Generally, the difference between "pros" and "casuals" / "noobs" will be much bigger. These two worlds will move away from each other even more - it's rather surprising since ZOS have been stating many times that their intention is to reduce this gap. Good players will adapt to the changes and will adjust their rotations etc. - they will surely cope with the new state of the game, being able to complete all the existing content. On the other hand worse players won't handle with sustain issues/resource management, which will make PUGs even less desirable option. Many of them, who have been able to do e.g. vRoM or vCoS on hard modes (which has been already a rarity in PUGs), won't be able to do so after the changes...

Izaki · April 2017

Resource management doesn't require as much skill as some seem to think. It requires proper sets/gear and skills. That's literally it. The only thing this update does is forces people to spec into sustain.

Gilvoth · April 2017

it's just going to make people leave eso.

s7732425ub17_ESO · April 2017

Yes, it will make players more terrible across the board.

TheStealthDude · April 2017

Bad players won't even notice most these changes. Most bad players likely aren't even reading the patch notes or making connections about certain synergies that are being changed. They will continue on with their quests and normal dungeons just as they would have.

s7732425ub17_ESO · April 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Resource management doesn't require as much skill as some seem to think. It requires proper sets/gear and skills. That's literally it. The only thing this update does is forces people to spec into sustain.

Completely incorrect. A large part of sustain comes from individual player skill and group buffs. Sure, you can just slap on a gear set that gives you infinite sustain. But then you realize that this won't give you the damage you want. And rotation is a big part of sustain. A lot of people re-apply expensive buffs too early or spam an ability too often in the heat of battle. Highly skilled players don't have this problem.