A drop of rain... [Rant]

ParaNostram · April 2017

I love this game, I really do, and this community for the most part, but good lord if ya'll don't feel a drop of rain and start screaming the sky is falling. Every patch, every single patch people start screaming RIP this class or ESO is dead and just... Come on.... I wish the Beta wasn't closed or had looser NDA agreements so that we can hear from people who have played with the changes. I wish that people would understand that we are seven weeks out from launch and that the specific numbers can and likely will change. I wish people would offer constructive feedback rather than the countless negative posts that keep popping up all over the place.

And don't get me STARTED on all of the "ESO is P2W" people. Come on. Better gear has always been behind pay gates, not due to some malicious intent but because of the very nature of MMO's (as new content comes out, so does new gear or what have you, new gear designed after the lessons learned and experience gained from working on the game). New classes are often OP upon their launch but that does not mean pay to win. Nobody screamed pay to win when the Death Knight was coming out on World of Warcraft and you could run full DK groups for dungeons in spite of how the design of dungeons should make that impossible, they were just that broken at launch.

This level of hate is just plain old toxic. And then every time I try to join a discussion or start one, there are always those "hurr durr you play a sorc no wonder why you aren't mad!" Like... I've been playing a Bosmeri Pet Sorc since launch just because that's what was fun to me and because the character herself has value to me outside of mechanics (I mean if I was all about mechanics, do you REALLY think I'd choose a Bosmer over Altmer?). I know stupid RP nerd BS but I created that character when I played the original Morrowind and just have stuck with her for ever Elder Scrolls game since. Remember when people thought Sorcs were going to die when shields were being nerfed to 6 seconds, but those changes actually turned out to be needed changes that have made the game feel more challenging in the long run?

I get it, nobody wants to get nerfed, but like I've been on this game since Beta and I remember how it used to play and power creep has reached the point in which the meta has completely changed from what the vision of the game was. Instead of having to manage resources, the best players are the ones that can animation cancel their way to dumping the most resources the fastest because we literally have more resources than we know what to do with. That isn't fun to me. Animation canceling isn't fun to me and I have loathed that I have had to learn to do it effectively to be effective. Managing my resources and deciding when to use a shield, when to use a heavy attack, when to block, when to use a damaging spell, THAT'S fun to me.

Let's not forget that these changes are effecting every single class in the game, sustain is going to actually be a factor again. Let's also not forget that, again to reiterate, we still have weeks before launch and I can only imagine everyone who is Beta testing the game is giving honest feedback. ZOS does listen to feedback, they do read the forums, and if you REALLY want to sway them to change things, if you REALLY think these changes are going to be a disaster, you will do a hell of a lot better with some honey than the endless stream of urine and vinegar ya'll put on here.

This negativity is just too much for me. Can we stop shouting the sky is falling and start giving actual feedback and solutions? Good lord...

Phinix1 · April 2017

When something goes wrong 100 people will tell you why and maybe 5 will offer constructive feedback on how to correct the problem.

You still MUST listen to the 5.

Turelus · April 2017

I understand anger and frustration over the class balance changes, but yeah people are going full on stupid this time around.

If they have some actual feedback post it in a constructive way with some actual information. Get together on PTS and do some dungeons and film them, SHOW ZOS why it's bad.

As for the whole P2W Warden thing... sheesh I think people just want conspiracy theories on why ZOS is a big evil company these days. If you hate ZOS and the game so much just go, you don't do yourself or anyone else any benefit by remaining and spreading these moronic rumours.

Beardimus · April 2017

SPOT ON

Cadbury · April 2017

Called it. Complaining about complaining is the new endgame.

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

Was I the only one who thought this was a rant about the actual rain in-game?

Cadbury · April 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Was I the only one who thought this was a rant about the actual rain in-game?

Would have been better imo

Turelus · April 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Was I the only one who thought this was a rant about the actual rain in-game?

I'll be honest, I didn't read more than the first few lines before I rage posted. He could have been talking about the song Chocolate Rain for all I know.

Just so tired of these moronic arguments and trashy forums cry threads where people are too moronic to actually go test, get data and show ZOS why it's bad.

ParaNostram · April 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Was I the only one who thought this was a rant about the actual rain in-game?

My bad haha but on that subject, I do like the weather effects they're pretty great. I just have a tendency to speak in metaphors allegories and various bits of colorful language, especially when I've had it to here and my last flying f*** has taken feathery flight never to be seen again.

ParaNostram · April 2017

Turelus wrote: »

As for the whole P2W Warden thing... sheesh I think people just want conspiracy theories on why ZOS is a big evil company these days. If you hate ZOS and the game so much just go, you don't do yourself or anyone else any benefit by remaining and spreading these moronic rumours.

This really gets me. It's like, on one side people say ZOS is just incompetent and can't do a single thing right, but somehow is still having everything going according to some evil plan? Which is it, are they competent but evil or incompetent? They can't be both! And personally I think they're neither.

Sharee · April 2017

Hey look, a rant that i actually read through. Good stuff mate

Xexpo · April 2017

I was hoping this was about being able to toggle the weather.

Mojmir · April 2017

im getting tired too, of people who just dont get it and accept what this dev team does and just have an "its all good" attitude.
negativity or positively in goes in one ear and out the other,difference is the positive gets an "attaboy" and ignored.

you can be the positive one, ill keep being the negative one, they have to listen to one of right? wrong, they dont have to do anything, as theyve shown, they can pretty much do whatever they want and someone will still log in, still play pvp, still do pledges, still RP.
if they cared,if they actually really gave a damn, this update wont go live. theyd use the feedback given to them over the years and at least attempt to improve. sadly it wont, egos and arrogance prevails, oh and lets not forget greed. but hey the negativity is too much, lets try to stay positive, ZOS will save us from ourselves and our evil playstyles which ruin there lazy development they release months apart. hey theres an idea, instead of nerfing the hell out of something, they could could do it sloooooooowly and small steps,nah thats not their style.

crusnik91 · April 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

I wish people would offer constructive feedback rather than the countless negative posts that keep popping up all over the place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336029/pts-patch-notes-full-in-dept-review-updates-ongoing-zos-please-read/p1
There you go. Full in dept of constructive feedback with solutions & reasoning. Now its left to ZOS to make a change, a correct change.

Cadbury · April 2017

Telling people to not complain is not going to stop it. Just sayin'

Turelus · April 2017

crusnik91 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I wish people would offer constructive feedback rather than the countless negative posts that keep popping up all over the place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336029/pts-patch-notes-full-in-dept-review-updates-ongoing-zos-please-read/p1
There you go. Full in dept of constructive feedback with solutions & reasoning. Now its left to ZOS to make a change, a correct change.

I'm sure they're watching and reading. However remember the change you want doesn't =/= the best or correct change.

ParaNostram · April 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

im getting tired too, of people who just dont get it and accept what this dev team does and just have an "its all good" attitude.
negativity or positively in goes in one ear and out the other,difference is the positive gets an "attaboy" and ignored.

you can be the positive one, ill keep being the negative one, they have to listen to one of right? wrong, they dont have to do anything, as theyve shown, they can pretty much do whatever they want and someone will still log in, still play pvp, still do pledges, still RP.
if they cared,if they actually really gave a damn, this update wont go live. theyd use the feedback given to them over the years and at least attempt to improve. sadly it wont, egos and arrogance prevails, oh and lets not forget greed. but hey the negativity is too much, lets try to stay positive, ZOS will save us from ourselves and our evil playstyles which ruin there lazy development they release months apart. hey theres an idea, instead of nerfing the hell out of something, they could could do it sloooooooowly and small steps,nah thats not their style.

To give you an idea as to how I read things, when I heard there were patch notes I simply got on and read the patch notes, hadn't read any other posts hadn't heard any news about the patch notes. When I sat down and read the notes, and read the developer commentary (which they have some of the most transparent notes in teh world because of said commentary a luxury I don't remember in past MMOs I've played) I found myself nodding and agreeing saying "well that sounds reasonable." This isn't some attaboy BS. I'm a big girl, I can come up with my own opinions and my opinions can be as wrong as yours can be but I don't think they are right now.

On the subject of feedback, they do listen and have listened in the past and will continue to listen. You're misconstruing listening and obeying. Yeah sure we all got our ideas as to how the game should be and so do they this isn't some evil ZOS conspiracy. This is literally what they said it was. Go back and read the notes. Let's list things they've listened to feedback on... Floating combat text, buff and debuff timers, the entire first person perspective (this is a TES game after all). The redesign of Stamina Sorcs and DKs (people asked, they did deliver).

Now let's look at some things where they did not just do what we asked them to do. One Tamriel, people thought it might break the game, it has made ESO a very unique and enjoyable experience. Nerfing shields to 6 seconds, now I did jump on the "this is too much" band wagon same as half the forums back then and I was wrong, we needed that. We don't have years of experience in game design (or at least most of us don't). We don't always know what's best for the game, we don't always have the perspective the developers have -BUT- neither do they have the perspective that we have. That is why feedback is important, constructive honest feedback instead of this "ZOS is evil and ruining the game aahhh" stuff we see everywhere.

They do read our feedback, but that don't mean they'll agree with it any more than we agree with their ideas, but if everyone gives honest constructive feedback they'll have no choice but to listen (unless they actually do want the game to fail, which that's kind of their meal ticket and labor of love of the past so much time).

Turelus wrote: »

crusnik91 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I wish people would offer constructive feedback rather than the countless negative posts that keep popping up all over the place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336029/pts-patch-notes-full-in-dept-review-updates-ongoing-zos-please-read/p1
There you go. Full in dept of constructive feedback with solutions & reasoning. Now its left to ZOS to make a change, a correct change.

I'm sure they're watching and reading. However remember the change you want doesn't =/= the best or correct change.

Thank you.

Cadbury wrote: »

Telling people to not complain is not going to stop it. Just sayin'

Oh I know and I also know I haven't seen a constructive post from you yet so I'm just sayin' I don't quite care for your approval or lack there of. Are you just going to say snarky one liners all day or do you actually have something to say?

Cloudless · April 2017

@ParaNostram, thank you for this thread. (I mean it)

Cadbury · April 2017

ParaNostram wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

im getting tired too, of people who just dont get it and accept what this dev team does and just have an "its all good" attitude.
negativity or positively in goes in one ear and out the other,difference is the positive gets an "attaboy" and ignored.

you can be the positive one, ill keep being the negative one, they have to listen to one of right? wrong, they dont have to do anything, as theyve shown, they can pretty much do whatever they want and someone will still log in, still play pvp, still do pledges, still RP.
if they cared,if they actually really gave a damn, this update wont go live. theyd use the feedback given to them over the years and at least attempt to improve. sadly it wont, egos and arrogance prevails, oh and lets not forget greed. but hey the negativity is too much, lets try to stay positive, ZOS will save us from ourselves and our evil playstyles which ruin there lazy development they release months apart. hey theres an idea, instead of nerfing the hell out of something, they could could do it sloooooooowly and small steps,nah thats not their style.

To give you an idea as to how I read things, when I heard there were patch notes I simply got on and read the patch notes, hadn't read any other posts hadn't heard any news about the patch notes. When I sat down and read the notes, and read the developer commentary (which they have some of the most transparent notes in teh world because of said commentary a luxury I don't remember in past MMOs I've played) I found myself nodding and agreeing saying "well that sounds reasonable." This isn't some attaboy BS. I'm a big girl, I can come up with my own opinions and my opinions can be as wrong as yours can be but I don't think they are right now.

On the subject of feedback, they do listen and have listened in the past and will continue to listen. You're misconstruing listening and obeying. Yeah sure we all got our ideas as to how the game should be and so do they this isn't some evil ZOS conspiracy. This is literally what they said it was. Go back and read the notes. Let's list things they've listened to feedback on... Floating combat text, buff and debuff timers, the entire first person perspective (this is a TES game after all). The redesign of Stamina Sorcs and DKs (people asked, they did deliver).

Now let's look at some things where they did not just do what we asked them to do. One Tamriel, people thought it might break the game, it has made ESO a very unique and enjoyable experience. Nerfing shields to 6 seconds, now I did jump on the "this is too much" band wagon same as half the forums back then and I was wrong, we needed that. We don't have years of experience in game design (or at least most of us don't). We don't always know what's best for the game, we don't always have the perspective the developers have -BUT- neither do they have the perspective that we have. That is why feedback is important, constructive honest feedback instead of this "ZOS is evil and ruining the game aahhh" stuff we see everywhere.

They do read our feedback, but that don't mean they'll agree with it any more than we agree with their ideas, but if everyone gives honest constructive feedback they'll have no choice but to listen (unless they actually do want the game to fail, which that's kind of their meal ticket and labor of love of the past so much time).

Turelus wrote: »

crusnik91 wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I wish people would offer constructive feedback rather than the countless negative posts that keep popping up all over the place.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336029/pts-patch-notes-full-in-dept-review-updates-ongoing-zos-please-read/p1
There you go. Full in dept of constructive feedback with solutions & reasoning. Now its left to ZOS to make a change, a correct change.

I'm sure they're watching and reading. However remember the change you want doesn't =/= the best or correct change.

Thank you.

Cadbury wrote: »

Telling people to not complain is not going to stop it. Just sayin'

Oh I know and I also know I haven't seen a constructive post from you yet so I'm just sayin' I don't quite care for your approval or lack there of. Are you just going to say snarky one liners all day or do you actually have something to say?

At least I'm not complaining about how others are reacting to the patch notes. I play a Templar, and while I'm not foaming at the mouth in rage, I can understand and empathize when someone who works hard on a build feels that their efforts were all in vain. Sure, people get angsty and spew vitriol on the forums. And yes it gets annoying. But I'm not so smug, sanctimonious, and self-righteous to call them out and tell them to basically shut up

It's only human to be angry. Venting it out in written form is cathartic for many. I can tolerate a few angry posts because I have the power to ignore a topic I don't like. I laugh and joke on the forum because it's my nature. But I know how important this game is to many of us.

Feel free to put me on ignore if what I said offended you. I make no apologies for stating an opinion.

Have a good morning.

Beardimus · April 2017

But the whole point is nothing is 'Broken' untill you actually try to use it. People are jumping on the band wagon of negativity with no cause.

It's like they are the only person getting the CP change or the only Templar losing MM, everyone's in the same boat.

Sure some content is going to get harder, that's a good thing. Scores may well drop - but they will be relative.

The best players will still be the best players, they will overcome. The order will remain the same.

Change is a good thing, and these changes needed to happen to fix many areas of the game and it's good that its across the board.

Naerri · April 2017

Turelus wrote: »

If they have some actual feedback post it in a constructive way with some actual information. Get together on PTS and do some dungeons and film them, SHOW ZOS why it's bad.

Why do we have to waste our time and energy on constructive criticism everytime ZOS does something stupid? That would have to be a full time paid job...

Turelus · April 2017

Naerri wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

If they have some actual feedback post it in a constructive way with some actual information. Get together on PTS and do some dungeons and film them, SHOW ZOS why it's bad.

Why do we have to waste our time and energy on constructive criticism everytime ZOS does something stupid? That would have to be a full time paid job...

Because that's how life works. When people do something stupid you show and explain why it's stupid, if you don't help point out mistakes and issues people won't know they're wrong and continue down the path of ruin.

If you want your vision of ESO then you have to fight for that vision and those ideas, show them why what you feel is better than their design and would benefit their game.

If you don't then you have two options, roll with it and accept this is their game and their changes, or agree this game isn't what you desire and walk away to find something that is.

They're holding a beta (and hold a PTS) for this very reason, so people can get in there and give actual feedback about live play and how the games effecting them.