[Morrowind] VMA and vet DLC dungeons will be impossible with the CP nerfs

Kharnamatic · April 2017

I have a question for the devs: how will not-so-elite players (that is the 99.99%) be able to complete endgame content like VMA or vCoS with the sweeping nerfs in Morrowind?

I am talking about the changes, as listed in https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/65y14l/news_eso_morrowind_pts_300_patch_notes_readable/dge28hm/ that in sum total reduce our character's effectiveness by about 30%.

Highlights:

Light Armor
Evocation: This is now a 2-point passive, originally 3-points. It now reduces the cost of your Magicka abilities by 1/2% per piece of Light Armor, down from 1/2/3%.
Recovery: This is now a 3-point passive, originally 2-points. It now increases your Magicka Recovery by 2/3/4% per piece of Light Armor, instead of 2/4%.

Alliance War
Assault
Vigor: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.

Minor Magickasteal: Reduced the amount of Magicka this debuff restores to the attacker to 300 Magicka from 400 Magicka.

CP passives being nerfed from 25% to 15%, e.g. magicak recovery.

Content like VMA is already nigh-impossible with the current un-nerfed CP/abilities, with youtube guides recommending 600 CP, a class reroll to magnb, buying a racial change so you are a FOTM dunmer, high elf or redguard with the right racials, buying an appearance token so you can make sure your character's height slider is set to max to avoid the problem where a short character drowns in the healing pools https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/335548/zos-hates-short-people#latest, having 1mil gold trader sets like necropotence or vtrial gear like moondancer, vo or in a catch-22 situation sharpened vma staves to beat vma in order to obtain a sharpened vma staff, full legendaries in all slots while having 100% uptime on 1000 gold per pop pots only craftable by master alchemists, putting the youtube guide on your ipod and listening it every day for a month while on the bus, on the shower and before bed so you have all the boss strategies memorized, and upgrading your computer to the latest greatest gfx card and ssd drive combo otherwise you will die and lose points to bs lag and performance issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD_1PUIyVKk&t=1504s. And even then, even then those youtube guides can't say you will beat VMA but only that you might, after a 300 death run with a 100k repair cost.

With Morrowind, has ZOS just put such content out of the reach of any player? I do not see how a 30% weaker team could complete something like vMOL where most guilds are just squeaking by the final boss. If the ESO community is going to keep receiving patches like these, I would rather just see ZOS lay off all of its devs and stop coming up with "improvements" to force upon us. Oh for the days of crit procs, worthwhile vampires and lag-less Cyrodill (now a lagfest with 5% of the population because of bot-checking performance bottlenecks implemented by ZOS). Now all characters are weak, weak, weak.

I hope ZoS considers the plight of the average player and accompanies these 30% nerfs to the player in Morrowind with a 30% nerf to NPCs and removal of dungeon/trial mechanics.

redspecter23 · April 2017

A nerf to players is essentially a buff to content, relatively speaking. Is it intended that old content be made harder over time? I'd love an official answer from ZOS because if the intention is to make content harder each patch, what is the point of trying to improve your character when you know the content will just be ramped up next update?

AzraelKrieg · April 2017

You learn to adapt.

Waseem · April 2017

Everything will still be doable... And will be more fun, there will be less mechanics skipping and thats it

redspecter23 · April 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You learn to adapt.

At what point is that futile? Sure, pros will still breeze through VMA. This isn't about the pros. This is about players that were just starting to clear the content. They'll log on when Morrowind hits and they will be weaker than before. It's not whether they can adapt or not. The main concern is whether or not it's good for the health of the game to keep moving the bar (for 2 year old content) each update.

Koolio · April 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You learn to adapt.

After adapting to nerf after nerf year after year is get to be a game of motivation. Which sucks because I play this almost 24/7. Bought all kinds of stuff in the crown store( more than I like to admit but $1000's worth). Now I'm 30% weaker across the board on all 12 characters. So maybe next year I'll be where I'm at right now. Maybe.

thisisScoMan · April 2017

Git gud?

KingYogi415 · April 2017

New OP gear is most likely going to make these changes balanced.

Cadbury · April 2017

Just reroll as a Warden or Sorc

pizzaow · April 2017

I've played around with some nice heavy attack builds (same DoTs, but heavy attack as your spammable). You take a small DPS hit, maybe 10-15% (eg. 27K instead of 30K), but offers a much simpler rotation and amazing sustain. This is what I already use in maelstrom and don't have much of a problem. The main issues are mobility and that you can't block cast... If I have to block, I'll refresh my AoEs a bit early and move into heavy attack once the big danger has passed.

Of course, this is magic... not sure what stam toons will do, but I'm sure someone will figure it out.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

Guess what? You've gotta learn mechanics now! no more outdpsing timed events!

Also, if you're really having trouble with vMA. get Troll King, and an essence of lingering health. Seriously. It's like a poor man's chalice of health constantly.

BuddyAces · April 2017

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most folks who are happy with this change are the folks who never have to run random dungeons. Take a day and go run some randoms. Go look at what the majority of the player base actually is. Go run with guildies is what you're going to tell me, guess what, I do. Guess why we have a dungeon finder, guess who populates it.

I can run five random dungeons using the dungeon finder on my tank. I can guarantee you that 3 of those 5 dungeons will not go anywhere near smooth. I can guarantee you that at least 2 of those will not finish said dungeon before the healer leaves and the party disbands.

The only troubles that I can see where this patch may affect me (since I don't run trials) would be the DLC dungeons. What will affect me is the time that it takes to complete said dungeons. Summer time is rolling around, work is back to full time, I have kids. Combine that with my play time and bed time (I'm getting old, can't stay up till midnight anymore) I just can't wait to run my 2 daily pledges and then call it a night. Yay.

Nerfing everything because you still haven't learned that you need to seperate PVP and PVE at this stage in the game is just incompetence. You're not going to do it. Stop trying.

TLDR:
Nerfs aren't going to affect me cuz I don't trial, take longer to do dungeons, 90 percent of player base can hardly finish a vet dungeon as it stands now, ZOS still hasn't figured out they can't balance PVE and PVP together as one entity.

EDIT:
To OP, your post wins my funniest thread I've read on these boards yet. Gratz dude, you had me actually laughing out loud.

Pallio · April 2017

Maybe the drops and RNG could be improved to compensate for the increased difficulty.

Kharnamatic · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Guess what? You've gotta learn mechanics now! no more outdpsing timed events!

Also, if you're really having trouble with vMA. get Troll King, and an essence of lingering health. Seriously. It's like a poor man's chalice of health constantly.

And you know that Troll King is getting nerfed by the update as well, right?

Troll King: This item set now procs when you heal a friendly target and they are still below 50% Health, reduced originally from 60% Health.

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

My heart and sympathy goes out to you all. It really does. Because sets like Vicious Ophidian are so crucial in places like VMA, and having Maelstrom weapons really helps a lot with everything. And if you don't have them, then you're forced to just struggle. And I know that feeling all too well. It's maddening, and it really makes you not even want to bother in the first place. Because you know that once you do actually get a lot of the stuff, the gear becomes second-rate and or useless. It takes a long time acquiring stuff, and the grind becomes unbearable.

Mojmir · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Guess what? You've gotta learn mechanics now! no more outdpsing timed events!

Also, if you're really having trouble with vMA. get Troll King, and an essence of lingering health. Seriously. It's like a poor man's chalice of health constantly.

That was reason for one tam and shadows of hist,they made the content so you couldn't out dps it. This update is lazy development because they screwed up adding cp in the first place and they're in a corner with zero knowledge on to get out. They invited players last month to help and still can't get it right.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · April 2017

Cost reduction CP nerf is the main killer if assume.

DDemon · April 2017

Waseem wrote: »

Everything will still be doable... And will be more fun, there will be less mechanics skipping and thats it

Maelstrom is not fun, and will never be fun.

Xylphan · April 2017

Kharnamatic wrote: »

I have a question for the devs: how will not-so-elite players (that is the 99.99%) be able to complete endgame content like VMA or vCoS with the sweeping nerfs in Morrowind?

I am talking about the changes, as listed in https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/65y14l/news_eso_morrowind_pts_300_patch_notes_readable/dge28hm/ that in sum total reduce our character's effectiveness by about 30%.

Highlights:

Light Armor
Evocation: This is now a 2-point passive, originally 3-points. It now reduces the cost of your Magicka abilities by 1/2% per piece of Light Armor, down from 1/2/3%.
Recovery: This is now a 3-point passive, originally 2-points. It now increases your Magicka Recovery by 2/3/4% per piece of Light Armor, instead of 2/4%.

Alliance War
Assault
Vigor: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.

Minor Magickasteal: Reduced the amount of Magicka this debuff restores to the attacker to 300 Magicka from 400 Magicka.

CP passives being nerfed from 25% to 15%, e.g. magicak recovery.

Content like VMA is already nigh-impossible with the current un-nerfed CP/abilities, with youtube guides recommending 600 CP, a class reroll to magnb, buying a racial change so you are a FOTM dunmer, high elf or redguard with the right racials, buying an appearance token so you can make sure your character's height slider is set to max to avoid the problem where a short character drowns in the healing pools https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/335548/zos-hates-short-people#latest, having 1mil gold trader sets like necropotence or vtrial gear like moondancer, vo or in a catch-22 situation sharpened vma staves to beat vma in order to obtain a sharpened vma staff, full legendaries in all slots while having 100% uptime on 1000 gold per pop pots only craftable by master alchemists, putting the youtube guide on your ipod and listening it every day for a month while on the bus, on the shower and before bed so you have all the boss strategies memorized, and upgrading your computer to the latest greatest gfx card and ssd drive combo otherwise you will die and lose points to bs lag and performance issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD_1PUIyVKk&t=1504s. And even then, even then those youtube guides can't say you will beat VMA but only that you might, after a 300 death run with a 100k repair cost.

With Morrowind, has ZOS just put such content out of the reach of any player? I do not see how a 30% weaker team could complete something like vMOL where most guilds are just squeaking by the final boss. If the ESO community is going to keep receiving patches like these, I would rather just see ZOS lay off all of its devs and stop coming up with "improvements" to force upon us. Oh for the days of crit procs, worthwhile vampires and lag-less Cyrodill (now a lagfest with 5% of the population because of bot-checking performance bottlenecks implemented by ZOS). Now all characters are weak, weak, weak.

I hope ZoS considers the plight of the average player and accompanies these 30% nerfs to the player in Morrowind with a 30% nerf to NPCs and removal of dungeon/trial mechanics.

How many threads have there been about people complaining the game is too easy and offers no challenge?

ZOS: "Challenge Accepted."

Seriously though, people are getting way too worked up over POTENTIAL changes. And even if the changes go through untouched, if they find that they aren't working as they had hoped they can always roll them back.

Go play on the PTS if you want a preview. Help them test. Prove them wrong so they can dial back some of the changes. Complaining about it on the forum isn't going to do much.

Ballzy321 · April 2017

I think vma will be doable but rip the people having trouble with it. its easy to some hard to a lot more. impossible for them after this

greylox · April 2017

And our group was getting so close to finishing vet mazzatun....This is gonna set us right back and the fact that it's taken is weeks to get as far as we have prob means it's the end for me ever doing that place on vet.

At least we get something for normal mode...

CultOfMMO · April 2017

high end teams can do pad 5 Rakkhat burn, top tier teams can do pad 5 rakkhat Hardmode burn

these weren't by design but solely due to slow power creep from increased CP

now teams will just have to go through lunar no matter what, it's not as big of a deal as people think it'll be. Mechanics aren't meant to be skippable, crazy idea right?

As for vMA, if a scrub like me can finish it and farm it at cp 274 on a khajit stamblade, then it'll still be more than do-able for most, maybe even still easy, just not faceroll autopilot easy. And the people who hasn't cleared it till now...well will still never clear it regardless of anything

As for vet dlc dungeons....wait okay seriously? If you're even remotely concerned about vet dungeons then you have a lot of gitgud to do before worrying about anything else

Epicasballs · April 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

My heart and sympathy goes out to you all. It really does. Because sets like Vicious Ophidian are so crucial in places like VMA, and having Maelstrom weapons really helps a lot with everything. And if you don't have them, then you're forced to just struggle. And I know that feeling all too well. It's maddening, and it really makes you not even want to bother in the first place. Because you know that once you do actually get a lot of the stuff, the gear becomes second-rate and or useless. It takes a long time acquiring stuff, and the grind becomes unbearable.

Absolutely... I started a thread today how RNG needs some changes. I run and make LB's in VMA with 2 toons but in over 400 runs still do not have the rewards I want. I barely play anymore and neither do several friends... RNG is ruining the game for players of calibers.

lunalitetempler · April 2017

Kharnamatic wrote: »

I have a question for the devs: how will not-so-elite players (that is the 99.99%) be able to complete endgame content like VMA or vCoS with the sweeping nerfs in Morrowind?

I am talking about the changes, as listed in https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/65y14l/news_eso_morrowind_pts_300_patch_notes_readable/dge28hm/ that in sum total reduce our character's effectiveness by about 30%.

Highlights:

Light Armor
Evocation: This is now a 2-point passive, originally 3-points. It now reduces the cost of your Magicka abilities by 1/2% per piece of Light Armor, down from 1/2/3%.
Recovery: This is now a 3-point passive, originally 2-points. It now increases your Magicka Recovery by 2/3/4% per piece of Light Armor, instead of 2/4%.

Alliance War
Assault
Vigor: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.

Minor Magickasteal: Reduced the amount of Magicka this debuff restores to the attacker to 300 Magicka from 400 Magicka.

CP passives being nerfed from 25% to 15%, e.g. magicak recovery.

Content like VMA is already nigh-impossible with the current un-nerfed CP/abilities, with youtube guides recommending 600 CP, a class reroll to magnb, buying a racial change so you are a FOTM dunmer, high elf or redguard with the right racials, buying an appearance token so you can make sure your character's height slider is set to max to avoid the problem where a short character drowns in the healing pools https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/335548/zos-hates-short-people#latest, having 1mil gold trader sets like necropotence or vtrial gear like moondancer, vo or in a catch-22 situation sharpened vma staves to beat vma in order to obtain a sharpened vma staff, full legendaries in all slots while having 100% uptime on 1000 gold per pop pots only craftable by master alchemists, putting the youtube guide on your ipod and listening it every day for a month while on the bus, on the shower and before bed so you have all the boss strategies memorized, and upgrading your computer to the latest greatest gfx card and ssd drive combo otherwise you will die and lose points to bs lag and performance issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD_1PUIyVKk&t=1504s. And even then, even then those youtube guides can't say you will beat VMA but only that you might, after a 300 death run with a 100k repair cost.

With Morrowind, has ZOS just put such content out of the reach of any player? I do not see how a 30% weaker team could complete something like vMOL where most guilds are just squeaking by the final boss. If the ESO community is going to keep receiving patches like these, I would rather just see ZOS lay off all of its devs and stop coming up with "improvements" to force upon us. Oh for the days of crit procs, worthwhile vampires and lag-less Cyrodill (now a lagfest with 5% of the population because of bot-checking performance bottlenecks implemented by ZOS). Now all characters are weak, weak, weak.

I hope ZoS considers the plight of the average player and accompanies these 30% nerfs to the player in Morrowind with a 30% nerf to NPCs and removal of dungeon/trial mechanics.

Didn't deltia do it with no cp?

RebornV3x · April 2017

The problem is with the Cp changes there will be absolutely no room to carry bad players in your group since lower sustain means lower resources which leads to lower dps which means longer fights this patch will hurt everyone not in elite top 1%

One bad player will make or break a run no matter how good you are. So unless I missed where they will nerf monster health this patch is bad for everyone. I don't mind the game being harder but the content itself should be harder not nerfing players and making us weaker.

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

I am SO happy that I have Flawless Conqueror and every trial title (except Dro-m'Athra Destroyer) for all my characters. I'm also extremely happy that I've gone out of the way, and gotten all of the skins you can earn from completing content. I have tons upon tons of Maelstrom Weapons, and can just post-up observing when things go live. However! I feel for those who don't, as those who don't will '"it". And they will feel "it" strongly.

FENGRUSH · April 2017

vet dungeons will be impossible....? lol

alexkdd99 · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Guess what? You've gotta learn mechanics now! no more outdpsing timed events!

Also, if you're really having trouble with vMA. get Troll King, and an essence of lingering health. Seriously. It's like a poor man's chalice of health constantly.

The group of players op is taking about are not burning through anything. I don't think people realize just how bad the majority of the playerbase is.

Go run vet dlc dungeons with group finder and see how bad people really are. What people use to be able to carry others through won't be the case anymore.

So op is not talking about people who are able to blaze through content, but the people who are already struggling to beat the content.

redspecter23 · April 2017

FENGRUSH wrote: »

vet dungeons will be impossible....? lol

For some people they already are. After this patch that number will go up, not down. Please try to remember that not everyone is elite. What you see as barely more than a minor roadbump is a game changer for other players.

Skjoldur · April 2017

redspecter23 wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

You learn to adapt.

At what point is that futile? Sure, pros will still breeze through VMA. This isn't about the pros. This is about players that were just starting to clear the content. They'll log on when Morrowind hits and they will be weaker than before. It's not whether they can adapt or not. The main concern is whether or not it's good for the health of the game to keep moving the bar (for 2 year old content) each update.

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Kharnamatic wrote: »

I have a question for the devs: how will not-so-elite players (that is the 99.99%) be able to complete endgame content like VMA or vCoS with the sweeping nerfs in Morrowind?

I am talking about the changes, as listed in https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/65y14l/news_eso_morrowind_pts_300_patch_notes_readable/dge28hm/ that in sum total reduce our character's effectiveness by about 30%.

Highlights:

Light Armor
Evocation: This is now a 2-point passive, originally 3-points. It now reduces the cost of your Magicka abilities by 1/2% per piece of Light Armor, down from 1/2/3%.
Recovery: This is now a 3-point passive, originally 2-points. It now increases your Magicka Recovery by 2/3/4% per piece of Light Armor, instead of 2/4%.

Alliance War
Assault
Vigor: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.

Minor Magickasteal: Reduced the amount of Magicka this debuff restores to the attacker to 300 Magicka from 400 Magicka.

CP passives being nerfed from 25% to 15%, e.g. magicak recovery.

Content like VMA is already nigh-impossible with the current un-nerfed CP/abilities, with youtube guides recommending 600 CP, a class reroll to magnb, buying a racial change so you are a FOTM dunmer, high elf or redguard with the right racials, buying an appearance token so you can make sure your character's height slider is set to max to avoid the problem where a short character drowns in the healing pools https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/335548/zos-hates-short-people#latest, having 1mil gold trader sets like necropotence or vtrial gear like moondancer, vo or in a catch-22 situation sharpened vma staves to beat vma in order to obtain a sharpened vma staff, full legendaries in all slots while having 100% uptime on 1000 gold per pop pots only craftable by master alchemists, putting the youtube guide on your ipod and listening it every day for a month while on the bus, on the shower and before bed so you have all the boss strategies memorized, and upgrading your computer to the latest greatest gfx card and ssd drive combo otherwise you will die and lose points to bs lag and performance issues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD_1PUIyVKk&t=1504s. And even then, even then those youtube guides can't say you will beat VMA but only that you might, after a 300 death run with a 100k repair cost.

With Morrowind, has ZOS just put such content out of the reach of any player? I do not see how a 30% weaker team could complete something like vMOL where most guilds are just squeaking by the final boss. If the ESO community is going to keep receiving patches like these, I would rather just see ZOS lay off all of its devs and stop coming up with "improvements" to force upon us. Oh for the days of crit procs, worthwhile vampires and lag-less Cyrodill (now a lagfest with 5% of the population because of bot-checking performance bottlenecks implemented by ZOS). Now all characters are weak, weak, weak.

I hope ZoS considers the plight of the average player and accompanies these 30% nerfs to the player in Morrowind with a 30% nerf to NPCs and removal of dungeon/trial mechanics.

Didn't deltia do it with no cp?

Yep, he did. But considering how he struggled at some bosses and that he is already very good at that dungeon, I do think these changes will frustrate even more players.

Anhedonie · April 2017

Good thing I already have flawless runs on my chars.