Idea - Racial Passives/Character Traits (Updated 4/29)

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

So, the Idea behind this is to allow a greater freedom of choice for those Min/Maxing Conscious folks out there in regards to race. As well as making races more equally viable based on player choice in the endgame while still having them have a uniqueness early game.

Edit, now changed to reduce racial overall damage impact in the later game.

Overview

Remove any damaging combat bonuses from all the racial passives, and replace them with non-combat/combat-sustain oriented bonuses.

Then, have the player "regain" specific "Traits/Lifestyles" for their character once they regain their soul. (Complete the main story)

Personality Traits/Lifestyles (Not Racial)

You were a Fighter? Stam regen.
You were Athletic? Max Stam
You were Well-Read? Mag Reduciton
You were Well-Trained? Stam Reduction
You were a Prodigy? Max Magicka
You were Strong of Mind? Mag Regen
You were Practiced with the Sword? Melee Physical damage
You were Practiced with the Bow? Ranged Physical damage
You were Practiced with the Arcane Arts? Elemental Damage (and then split this into whatever focus you want or a small bonus to all)
You were a Thief? Reduced detection Range.
You were an Opportunist? Increased Crit Chance
You were a Skulker? Increased Stealth Damage
You were a Survivor? Regain Health on hit (with timed cooldown)
You were a Berserker? Regain Stam on hit (with timed cooldown)
You were a Spellsmith? Regain Mag on hit (with timed cooldown)

etc. etc.

Only allow the player to choose a few of these combat traits.
And I guess allow them to be swapped via a shrine to a god maybe?

Edit: Hell, have a conversation that the Vestige has with The Prophet lead him to asking what the Vestige had lost when their soul was taken. Prompting a Screen where the Player chooses "Their Response".

Edit: Working on non-combat traits, will be able to select three.

You were a merchant? Sell items for 5% more and buy items for 5% less from NPC merchants (and fences)
You were a locksmith? Increase force lock chance by 10%
You were a Woodsman? Increases raw material gain from wood nodes by 1
You were a Miner? Increase raw material gain from ore nodes by 1.

Re-balancing Racials - Good in the Beginning, Low Impact in the End

Edit: After some consideration, while I would enjoy the idea of removing combat bonuses from Racial Passives, lorewise that'd be inconsistent. So, Below I've made a list of changes to the Racial Passives that would still give an edge, but not quite as large of one (since most are not Percentage based, and are now resource sustain focused). In additional to that, I'd also remove the skill point cost for these racial passives. Simply because they are a racial passive, something that your character was born with/genetic structure, not learned.

Edit: Gave each race and "edge" to a certain style of combat. I'd appreciate feedback as to whether or not you'd like to see these as racial based, or Character Type, based. General Consensus was, no, not a good idea. removing them.

Edit: replaced percent damage passives to % resource cost reduction, moved a few around.

Breton:
Gift of the Magnus: Increase Base Magicka by 800
Spell Resistance: Increase Spell Resistance by 1260
Magicka Mastery: Reduce Spell Costs by 3%
Could replace magicka mastery with : Elemental Attacks restore 1400 Magicka (10 sec cooldown)

Orc:
Brawny: Increase Base Health by 600 and Base Stamina by 480
Unflinching: Increase Base Health Recovery by 250
Warrior Ancestry: Decreases Stamina Costs of abilities by 1% |Increases Sprint speed by 6%

Redguard:
Exhilaration: Increase Base Stamina Recovery by 110
Hardy Constitution: Increase Poison resistance by 1260
Adrenalin Rush: Melee attacks Restore 1400 Stamina (10 sec cooldown)

Argonian:
Resourceful: Consuming a Potion restores an additional 1500 Magicka and Stamina, and an additional 2000 hp.
Argonian Resistance: Increase Base health by 1,350 and Disease Resistance by 1,260 (remove hp bonus?)
Hist Sap Essence: Dealing Damage restores 500 Magicka, 800 Health, and 500 Stamina (10 sec cooldown)

Dunmer:
Dynamic: Increases Base Magicka by 480 | Increase Base Stamina by 480
Resist Flame: Increases Flame Resistance by 1260
Destructive Ancestry: Elemental Attacks restore 1400 Magicka (10 sec cooldown)

Nord:
Stalwart: Increase Base Stamina by 480 | Increase Base Health Recovery by 250
Resist Frost Icy Beginning: Increase Cold Resistance by 1260
Rugged: Increase Physical Damage Resistance by 1260

Altmer:
SpellCharge: Increase Base Magicka Recovery by 110
Gift of the Magnus: Increase Base Magicka by 800
Elemental Affinity: Increase Frost,Shock,Fire damage by 2%
Could change to : Reduce cost of Magicka Based abilities by 1%

Bosmer:
Y'ffre's Endurance: Increase Base Stamina Recovery by 240
Resist Affliction Natures Upbringing: Increase Disease Resistance by 1260
Small Frame (Stealthy): Reduce Your Detection Radius by 2m

Khajiit:
Agile: Increases Movement Speed by 4% | Reduce Your Detection Radius by 2m
Exhilaration : Increase Base Stamina Recovery by 120
Unflinching : Increases Base Health Recovery by 250

Imperial:
Tough: Increases Base Health by 1,200
Conditioning: Increases Base Stamina by 800
Red Diamond Conviction: Melee Attacks Restore 1700 Health (10 sec cooldown)

Your thoughts on these changed Racial Passives?

dday3six · April 2017

"Freedom of choice" and "Min/Max" are like oil and water, they don't mix. A Min/Max approach is concerned with the statistically superior option, and the others might as well not be there.

This idea is more for those concerned with stats, but also concerned with aesthetics.

I'm just going to be honest, it seems as if you lack familiarity with the finer details of the concepts and systems you keep making suggestions for. As such, people are more inclined to correct your misinterpretations and misunderstandings than actually address the idea presented.

idk · April 2017

I just don't see how that's more interesting than what we have. I don't see it adding anything to the game.

Edit: replacing one set of passives with another set and still have the pay crowns to change time just as it is Joe doesn't make sense. It would basically change the game from 3 good classes for mag, 3 for stam and I guess 3 for tanking if we include Nord to requiring 3 specific passives for mag and 3 for stam etc.

It would mean no choice at all and that one would have to spend crowns just to go from a stam build to mag or back again so their passives were decent.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@dday3six
And once corrected/informed, I can then reform my argument, or scrap it as needed. That's how discussions work.

And this idea is certainly for those concerned with Stats, as well as Aesthetics. You hit it right on the head.
This isn't about balancing Racial Passives, rather, a way that would allow people to choose how they want to play while being able to select the character that would represent them.

As it stands right now, if you want to min/max, there are a few classes open to you depending on what you want to Min/Max.

Damage reduction is the Home of the Nord, Max Magicka the Breton, Magical Damage the Altmer/Dunmer. Warrior Prowess the Orc/Redguard, Stealth and Stam regen the area of Bosmer and Khajiit. That's all fine and dandy, but these passives are large enough to significantly impact your gameplay. Making the "Right Race" a Huge importance in your Damage output/Reduction. Not a minor one.

Rather than a character who "Trained in various ways" allowing players to differentiate their racial character from another, races are slotted into specific roles (at least in end game).

Would you run a Nord Sorc DPS, or an Altmer Sorc DPS?

I get that there should be some difference, but I don't think it should be as vast as it currently is.

TheShadowScout · April 2017

And it would actually detract from the game, for me at least... since I always liked the elder scrolls racial advantages. And I really would prefer the lore not to be sacrificed on the altar of min-maxing...

The idea might be viable if it was not a replacement for the current passives, but an addition. Though on that matter, I kinda prefer the "cultural background passives" idea I keep mentioning now and then:

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...while I really would not support changing the -racial- passives contrary to elder scrolls lore, I have mentioned several times before there is one thing that could be done - adding cultural passives!

Like, not every breton is born in a castle and learns magic from childhood. What about those born in city homes, where their commoner parents have no money to pay for magic lessions, and thus they grow up working in the family business instead before they are sick of sewing clothes or whatnot and decide to go adventuring? Or the ones who grew up on a farm in the country, working the fields to support their parents in their youth?

So I would think, there could be an addition to the passives, with "culturel passives".

You might get, say, three choices for every race, with a mix of combat and non-combat advantages... one "nobleborn" for magica builds, gold gain and haggling with vendors; one "commonborn" for stamina builds, stealth and crafting and one "countryborn" for toughness, item drop and gathering perks.
Depending on the race those could be different designations... Dunmer would have Nobles, Commoners and Ashlanders, Orsimer could have Trinimac followers, Malacath followers and Wood Orcs; Bretons could have Nobles, Commoners and Countryfolk, Redguards could have Crowns, Forebears and Ash'aba, and so on...

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@TheShadowScout

Hmm, so your suggestion would be to switch what I've suggested, keep the racial passives, but also add in non-combat bonuses selected by the Character (choosing that two innate bonus that is currently race dependent), such as:

Harvester: Obtain one additional raw material from Nodes
Pickpocket: Increase Pickpocket Chance by 5%
Locksmith: Increase the Force Lock Success by 5%
Pathfinder: Gain Minor Expedition while not in combat
Explorer: Gain Increased XP from discovering new locations (only useful for leveling up)
Scholar: Gain XP from reading new books (same as above)
Bargainer: Sell items for 5% more, buy items for 5% less (Non-guild Merchants)

Or something of the sort?

theher0not · April 2017

Anything that reduces the impact races have on combat is fine for me.

But saddly I don't think it will happen since most people either like races affecting gameplay or don't care about it.

Ghettokid · April 2017

No. I don't understand the whole objection against racial passives. Actually game would be even better if they add racial active abilities.

TheShadowScout · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Hmm, so your suggestion would be to switch what I've suggested, keep the racial passives, but also add in non-combat bonuses selected by the Character (choosing that two innate bonus that is currently race dependent)...

More or less.

I mean, keep the racial passives according to the lore, as in stuff like, bretons and altmer having an advantage in magica or redguards having an advantage in stamina builds, or orcs and nords being tough, or bosmer and khajiit being sneaky, etc.; but also add some "character background" passives. Possibly more then one "flavor". After all, we could add one for the "cultural" background as I outlined (noble, commoner or country folk, with matching boni for both combat and non combat...), but there could be more background passives as well...

...like one depending on -where- a character actually grew up, not every altmer is raised in the sumerset isles after all, they might also have grrown up elsewhere, and gained some passive from that. An altmer who grew up with exiled parents in, say, skyrim would for example likely be more used to the cold then his auridion-born cousin, a child of nord traders that grew up in hew's bane might have learned some ways to deal with desert heat that most nords never experince, et cetera...

...or possibly also one non-combat passive for a profession they learned before the start of their adventurers career, much as you outlined. An ex-craftsman might have a bonus for crafting, an ex-merchant a bonus for haggling, an ex-farmer a bonus for harvesting, an ex-scholar a bonus for book usage, whatever...

theher0not wrote: »

Anything that reduces the impact races have on combat is fine for me.
But saddly I don't think it will happen since most people either like races affecting gameplay or don't care about it.

I like races affecting gameplay. it is one of the things that makes elder scrolls the elder scrolls setting after all... that races have their racial "gifts" - altmer being good at magic, redguards being talented warriors...

...that being said, HOW those lore-borne advantages are represented in the game would be something worthy of debate.

The current percentile passives do of course add a LOT of effect in the endgame. Personally I would be more happy with fixed value passives, which might have decidedly less impact for high level characters... but maybe be more of a boost for lowbie characters instead?

Or some sort of ceiling again, so that the racial passives just mean you reach the top earlier (and make hybrid characters more viable again)

Artis · April 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I just don't see how that's more interesting than what we have. I don't see it adding anything to the game.

It would add more to the game , people would be able to play what they like, not what's better because of the stats.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And it would actually detract from the game, for me at least... since I always liked the elder scrolls racial advantages. And I really would prefer the lore not to be sacrificed on the altar of min-maxing...

]

"The elder scrolls racial advantages" were always capped and didn't influence the endgame. In the end, nord and altmer both had the same amount of magicka.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The idea might be viable if it was not a replacement for the current passives, but an addition. Though on that matter, I kinda prefer the "cultural background passives" idea I keep mentioning now and then:

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...while I really would not support changing the -racial- passives contrary to elder scrolls lore, I have mentioned several times before there is one thing that could be done - adding cultural passives!

Like, not every breton is born in a castle and learns magic from childhood. What about those born in city homes, where their commoner parents have no money to pay for magic lessions, and thus they grow up working in the family business instead before they are sick of sewing clothes or whatnot and decide to go adventuring? Or the ones who grew up on a farm in the country, working the fields to support their parents in their youth?

So I would think, there could be an addition to the passives, with "culturel passives".

You might get, say, three choices for every race, with a mix of combat and non-combat advantages... one "nobleborn" for magica builds, gold gain and haggling with vendors; one "commonborn" for stamina builds, stealth and crafting and one "countryborn" for toughness, item drop and gathering perks.
Depending on the race those could be different designations... Dunmer would have Nobles, Commoners and Ashlanders, Orsimer could have Trinimac followers, Malacath followers and Wood Orcs; Bretons could have Nobles, Commoners and Countryfolk, Redguards could have Crowns, Forebears and Ash'aba, and so on...

Same crap, doesn't matter how you call it. No one cares about etymology, we should care about the result.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I mean, keep the racial passives according to the lore, as in stuff like, bretons and altmer having an advantage in magica or redguards having an advantage in stamina builds, or orcs and nords being tough, or bosmer and khajiit being sneaky, etc.; but also add some "character background" passives. Possibly more then one "flavor". After all, we could add one for the "cultural" background as I outlined (noble, commoner or country folk, with matching boni for both combat and non combat...), but there could be more background passives as well...

The lore supports the opposite of what you're saying. It both mentions bosmer and future bretons gaining new racial passives, as well as mixing genes of father(less likely) and mother in a child.

You don't care about the lore, you care about things being how you think they should be, not caring about what's better for more players or what's in accordance with the lore even.

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

I see Redguard magsorcs, I press dislike.

Duiwel · April 2017

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Ragnaroek93 · April 2017

Just remove combat relevant passives, period. Having such crap like racial passives still in a game which tries to be competive at least (leaderboards) after three years is pretty embarassing.

At least balance the passives if you refuse to remove them. They are not min/maxing, being the right race is a freaking gamechanger in this game.

turanbloodfist · April 2017

I like the idea of racial passives as you're levelling through 1 - 50. It's a good way to differentiate the races and add flavour. I think once you hit level cap though the racial passives shouldn't apply.

Most people will know less about the game when they start than when they've played it for a long time. If you've invested 50, 100 or several 1000 hours into a character it's pretty disheartening to find out that the character you've created might be inherently less able to someone with appropriate racials regardless of player skill. Sure you can re-create another character from scratch in the correct race but that won't necessarily be one you identify with or want to play.

Arch mage Shalidor seems to have made a good effort working past his racial disadvantage, why can't we?

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@turanbloodfist

As in remove the bonuses from racial passives at lvl 50?

That'd be interesting, and in the end it'd make it so it really doesn't matter what race you choose.

However, what's your take on the idea I've added to the main post that removes most of the percentage system in the racial passives? This was in part to remove instances such as playing an altmer who stacks magicka, gaining 3K+ magicka solely from the racial passive.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@TheShadowScout

Hmm, What's your take on the fixed values I've added to the main post?

Stamden · April 2017

I don't really think ALL the racial passives need a complete rework. They just need to buff up some of the weaker races and give them an identity.

Nord: Give this class some magika and make it work better for frost mages
Bosmer: Remove stealthy passive and give it something to benefit bow playstyles
Argonian: Give it some uniqueness, like better resource management or something

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@Neighbor

Hmm: how bout this for Nord? (flat values are taken from the later section of my post)

Stalwart: Increase Max Stamina by 480 | Increase Health Recovery by 250
Resist Frost Icy Beginning: Increase Cold Resistance by 1260 | Increase Frost Damage by 4%
Rugged: Increase Damage Resistance by 3%

and Subsequently:

Dunmer:
Dynamic: Increases Base Magicka by 480 | Increase Base Stamina by 480
Resist Flame Heated Beginning: Increases Flame Resistance by 1260 | Increases Flame Damage by 3%
Destructive Ancestry: Increase Damage with Shock, Fire and Frost by 1%

Altmer:
SpellCharge: Increase Magicka Recovery by 110
Gift of the Magnus: Increase Base Magicka by 800
Elemental Affinity: Increase Frost,Shock,Fire damage by 2%

In Terms of the Bosmer, the Stealthy Racial attribute is due to their size, so I'd like to see it stay.

Y'ffre's Endurance: Increase Stamina Recovery by 230
Resist AfflictionNatures Upbringing: Increase Disease Resistance by 1260 | Increase Ranged attacks (non magical) by 4%
Stealthy: Reduce Your Detection Radius by 2m

HatchetHaro · April 2017

I'm an end-game raider who loves running his Argonian stam DK, and I'm just going to say that I fully support this idea. The racial passives as of now pretty much force competitive players to pick an "optimal" race for their role. I've pretty much hit the ceiling for my dps, but I know that a Redguard or Khajiit dps with my same exact gear and rotations can reach a dps ceiling 4k higher than mine.

People are going to argue that racial passives are supposed to be lore friendly and that other ES games had racial passives; but those games are unlike ESO in that they never had a competitive scene. People in the competitive scene can also get attached to their characters and refuse to play anyone else / any other race, and that is hugely understandable because ESO is still an ES game.

People may also argue that the things about the current racial passives only negatively affect a small percentage of the playerbase. However, I would argue that the proposed changes would positively affect most of the playerbase while also appeasing those who care about RP and competition at the same time. Why stick with the mediocre when improvements can be made?

We have enough Dunmer and Altmer, Redguard and Khajiit in the dps meta. We need more diversity even when it comes to this min/maxing scene. We need to be able to play what we want from casual RP to end-game raiding. OP's proposed changes are pretty much perfect for this.

Turelus · April 2017

People are just going to ask for more balance/changes/respec options for these though.

As the game and meta evolves those who do go for pure min/max will want to change with it and they'll desire these to be perfect again.

Sadly the only way to have any "fair" kind of racial choice in an MMO game is no passives at all.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@Turelus

That's true. Though if Passive were to be kept for lore reasons, I'd like to see them slightly beneficial, not majorly.

Turelus · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Turelus

That's true. Though if Passive were to be kept for lore reasons, I'd like to see them slightly beneficial, not majorly.

I am a fan of passive, and I generally am not an extreme min/max player. I generally optimise to my means of my race/class in a game but won't choose a race just for the passives.

So I don't actually want to see them removed, I am a fan of the idea some classes are more common with some races because that's what the lore says.

I've never seen an MMO where passives don't cause this though, because the mentality of players, and all the guides/videos/streamers/elites will tell everyone they'll suck without the correct mix, and so the myth continues and we get what we have here.

SodanTok · April 2017

In short. Introduce birthsigns like in TES games then.

idk · April 2017

@Avran_Sylt

First, removing passives from classes in an attempt to make your idea seem palatable is a poor idea. Especially since you haven't bothered with an idea about what would replace the class passives. Need to look at the whole picture which is why many player ideas are not added to the game.

Further, the added race passive changes presented clearly show someone who hates the race passives and the idea is far from balanced. Extremely unbalanced.

The classes you removed a % increase in stats are worthless with your design vs those that have a % increase in damage.

the original idea is as an great example of why many player ideas are not implemented. The changes merely cement that.

Preyfar · April 2017

Racials need to change to balance themselves out. I felt forced into buying a race change so I could continue on in the end game, running VMOL HM and more. My Argonian MagDK was not cutting it. Swapping from Argonian to Dunmer adds about 8-9% more damage on a MagDK -vs- an Argonians, and that's not including crits damage.

I don't WANT to play Dunmer, but raid groups already don't want Stamina in the mix because ZOS nerfed Stamina a bit too much, and Argonians get no real benefits from Racials even after all the change ZOS did. 3% more damage is really minimal.

Racials don't entire matter until the end game... and then the disparity between them becomes really vast.

EDIT: And yes, I do consider this "pay to win". Getting almost 10% more DPS because of racials is a pretty huge issue. It's not always about numbers, but some classes greatly benefit more than others. I'd much preferred to have stayed Argonian and been able to just take different racials if that were the case. I *do not* want to be Dunmer, but the damage disparity is too much to ignore.

Before anyone accuses me of min/maxing... at some point, this comes down to team building. My just being Argonian brings down the group's DPS. And that DPS difference can be the difference in finishing something like vMOL HM or wiping, especially when you have multiple people making those tweaks. I don't want to go this route, but it's for the good of the team. I felt forced to do so.

I literally hate the Dunmer because of what they stand for. But I hate the racial bonuses even more because they route people into playstyles or, worse, getting excluded because somebody really wants to be a Khajiit sorc. I know, I know... "If you don't like it, don't play with those people." But some of the bonuses are just too strong to ignore.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Racial passive, not classes, but I get ya.

My original idea when deciding to replace these combat passives was to be something similar to how they had orcs be master craftsmen, khajiit be thieves, Nords being the revelers (increased food duration). So say the khajiit would gain increased jump height, bosmer increased out of combat movement speed, altmer gain and exp boost from reading books, etc.

Though I then realized those kind of things could be placed in the "Character Trait" category, rather than a racial one. Which led me to the other decision of keeping the racial passives as they are, but reducing them.

To be honest, the idea for increased damage for a specific skill was exploratory, I'm not set on the idea, I just need to think of a way to replace the passives for races who have the original % damage increase with something palatable. As specific Damage increases would be better as "Character Traits" than racial passives anyway.

Also, Yeah, I hate the racial passive as they currently stand in the game. They should be a nice bonus at the beginning of the game (hence a a flat bonus), since some races should have an edge, but later on, your character should be able to overcome this disparity, to "adapt" (in this case regaining their soul, essence of who they are), while still not being "the absolute best". Right now though no character "adapts" based on the "decisions" made earlier in life . A Nord isn't able to have studied the magical arts from their early childhood, focusing on something that they have a deep desire/interest for. As the racial passives stand, every nord ever has only lived in the cold. And focused on physical activities, Every Altmer has only studied magic, and every Khajiit has only been a theif/assassin.

turanbloodfist · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

However, what's your take on the idea I've added to the main post that removes most of the percentage system in the racial passives?

I think lessening the combat bonuses would go some way to promoting greater diversity in class choices but where there is any difference there will be a "better" race and so the issue of being railroaded into a particular class choice to be effective end game remains.

With judicious use of soft caps on the stats racial bonuses add to I guess it may be possible to keep racial combat bonuses available but able to be compensated for by other races in other ways so that they're on par. I'd imagine doing this would likely invalidate a lot of the other ways of specialising for a character though so wouldn't be much fun overall.

Overall my view would that an Altmer being more adept at magicka (or other such lore based advantages for other races) could be represented by a significant bonus whilst running through 1 - 50 but there's only so adept one can be at something and so the benefit should not persist into the endgame.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

Removed the idea for damage bonuses for classes, rather made each class have a damage type which they have better recovery for (an affinity for).

And @Giles.floydub17_ESO , design of things works through iteration, and from viewing by differing perspectives. It's a rare thing that is perfect the first time around.

idk · April 2017

First of all, it is ok to hate that there are racial passives in this game, though you had a lot of opportunity known this before you purchased it and it is extremely lore friendly even if it does not match previous TES games, but every TES game changes the passives some anyhow.

The entire idea still looks like a mess. It appears to be a stretch probably due to wanting to play races not built for the build of the character you want to play.

Third, overall the idea presented would reduce the number races to choose for those going for max dps.. In other words, probably the opposite of what the goal is.

Magika
Dumner will still be BiS for fire mage DK builds, even more than now since 4% cost reduction is very OP compared to the magika regen presented.
Altmer is probably best choice for non DK builds with the combo of regen only slightly less than Breton plus 2% cost reduction
Breton probably comes in last again and more so with the significantly reduced spell resist.

Stam
Reguard is the only choice for melee and maybe ranged. Best max stats and regen
Wood Elf maybe ok with ranged, but dps would be higher with a Redguard

Races completely trash with the proposed idea.
Orc and Kahjiit will underperform Redguard and Wood Elf even though they are good choices now.
Argonian's best passive has been removed. Lots of people will be upset. Not much reason to use them. Zos will enjoy the extra income from the race changes.

Further, you are reducing spell resist for a Bretton to less than 1/3 yet not even cutting the fire resist for a Dumner by half. Does not seem balanced.

No offense, but what is presented it appears to be hastily conceived even and the changes may be making it worse. This is a good example of why many ideas for change to not get implemented. Reduce the benefit but also narrow the choices for meta builds.

I am not commenting on the rest of the idea because the choices there would merely magnify the issues I have presented.

Please note the limited interest in the idea. It shows few are interested in changes like what is presented and what was presented.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO"

While I do hate how the racial passives are currently implemented, it isn;t a turnoff for me with the game, I ***' enjoy it even as it is currently. I just like thinking of ideas/changes simply because I find it fun, but, as you note, it does result in hastily created ideas. If you've seen my discussion history, it's pretty evident. I just plop them out on the forums to see what others reactions are to it, and continue on it if I like it, regardless of the response, it just so happens that this one does indeed interest me. I understand that nothing I suggest is going to influence the game in the slightest, but that doesn't bother me.

So anyway,

You do make a good point of the initial racials exacerbating the benefits of the initial race selection, so I'll likely have to think more on those once the racials are groomed a bit more, as well as how some of them are imbalanced as it is laid out currently. (Dunmer, as you've mentioned)

What I'm generally trying to accomplish is to make racials a nice bonus at the start, but in the end game offer only a slight edge (but there still being an edge, just not as severe as it is currently). So hardcore min/maxxers will always have to decide between 3% more damage, or the race of their choice. But making the choice of race not being as impacting as it is currently. So part of that idea was to nyx % based resource bonuses and damages, as it causes the racial edge to continually grow with the character (I.E. Dunmer 7% damage bonus with fire, Breton +10% max Magicka). Hopefully reducing the end game gap.

Then, my reasoning for the Character Traits was so that the player "molds" the character into their playstyle. Keeping these as percentages will still cause races with a particular affinity for either stam or mag to excel in based on combinations, other races won't be as severely held back because their race just isn't suited for it. While yes, there may be some lore issues there, hopefully enough is covered by the edge given towards resource management per race.

And the reason I want to give the racials resource management bonuses rather than % damage bonuses is to reduce that significant damage gap, but introduce a resource management gap that can be handled by group play. So rather than, say, a bosmer always dealing a noticeably smaller amount of elemental damage in comparison to Altmer and Dunmer, they only deal slightly less damage (due to not having as much magicka) and have issues with resource management, which they can overcome with gear sets, a particular Trait, or skills.

If you've noticed in the above paragraphs, I've indeed conceded my original notion of having racials have no effect on damage output, rather having them only give an extremely small bonus (which I still need to update in the main post) but more of a focus on resource management. Thus having group play be more balanced in DPS (but not completely equal), with races whose sub-par resource management for the intended playstyle will need to be supplemented with support skills from other players. So hopefully allowing more racial diversity in the PvE side. Solo play on the other hand, is still going to have some issues, but hopefully not as many.

Onto the issues with the racial passives I've suggested:

For argonians, you've probably got a point with that resource passive being removed, I honeslty just wanted to test it, see reactions to it. My Idea would then to just have it restore flat bonuses (1500 mag, 2000 hp, 1500 stam).

For bosmer? Yeah, I felt that 4% reduction was OP as well, edited it to a flat value prior to you posting. (but presumably after you had clicked on the link).

Dunmer: Yeah, the fire based cost reduction is a bit to narrow of a view, probably just going to make it destro staff skills that get reduced cost. Might swap the Magicka Mastery from Breton to the Dunmer, reduce Altmer spell reduction, and give Bretons increased magicka cost reduction.

Altmer? Yeah, you're right, they'd still be the best magicka focused class. And lorewise that's probably how it should be. but hopefully it isn't as drastic a gap. going to change it to 1% reduced magicka cost.

Breton? The reason for the further reduced spell resist reduction is due to it covering all elements as well as magical damage (though for consistency will change to 1260).

Redguard? Yeah, seems t be generally melee focused, did a bit of reading into their lore, seems they're notable as skirmishers, and have a resistance to poison. So likely going to change the +720 stamina to +1260 poison resistance.

idk · April 2017

It is always good to think of ideas.

For the redguard lore, if your talking passives, they change from game to game, at least some and often single player games can look at things differently than MMOs.

All the races have strengths and weaknesses. All the races have ideal uses though anyone can mix and match as they please and I have seen stam classes in magika roles and do just fine in the harshest content. Personally, I find the choices to be interesting and enjoy that our choices have an impact yet players are able to overcome when a particular choice does not add strength to the specific build per se.