Dear ZOS, don't let double bank for subber happen

Graydon · April 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

People complaining about free stuff? Nothing new here

Please, teach me how to sub for free!

So much this ^^^

I'm ok with subscribers having crafting bag but come on, seriously Zo$?
Giving them actual bank space and non subscribers get jack crap? That's some bullcrap.

Non subs NEED extra bank space too.

All you need to do is convince ZOS that giving nonsubscribers FREE stuff is financially beneficial.

Yep Easy Peasy.

And Good Luck!

Zinaroth · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome),

I think all of those are way worse suggestions than doubling the storage space for people with a subscription - which goes well in line with the crafting bag which is also a subscription perk; both alleviates inventory management. So ZOS has taken a stand that dictates that if you subscribe easier inventory management is a bonus, which I am all for.

Elsonso · April 2017

Zinaroth wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome),

I think all of those are way worse suggestions than doubling the storage space for people with a subscription - which goes well in line with the crafting bag which is also a subscription perk; both alleviates inventory management. So ZOS has taken a stand that dictates that if you subscribe easier inventory management is a bonus, which I am all for.

Well, ZOS has recently added Crown Crafting Bags, which was a major pressure release valve for inventory. Doubling bank space duplicates the Crafting Bag perk (inventory management). While I am sure a lot of people would like it, there are other places where ESO Plus falls short than just inventory management.

The leveling assistance of ESO Plus has not changed since it was introduced, and as the game continues to expand, this becomes a growing problem. Giving ESO Plus members a perk that speeds up horse training, in particular, would be an improvement to the leveling benefits. Sadly, this would also pull people away from the Crown Riding Lessons, which is untouched by other perks. Bag space increases are already diluted, so this is likely why we are seeing double bank space.

That is the curse of B2P, and why we cannot have nice things. Everything they do has to be measured by Marketing to ensure that they don't cut off revenue and has to be measured by Development to make sure it does not damage the game itself. I don't even want to think about what happens when Development or Marketing disagree and one pushes against the desires of the other.

Eocosa · April 2017

The big problem, as I'm sure has been brought up (admittedly I didn't read through every post yet), is essentially anything given to subs is almost immediately deemed Pay to win (P2W). While I disagree with this personally in everything currently offered the arguments have been made for essentially everything extra is P2W and I think storage is the lesser of the possible evils.

Extra fast mount training will be P2W in pvp because you can get faster sturdier mounts quicker because you pay.

Faster trait training is P2W because you can make more traited sets quicker then everyone else and either use them yourself as P2W or sell them and have extra gold to buy things which is claimed P2W.

Extra gold allows for more purchases then everyone else in mats, weapons, consumables which is P2W for people who can't.

Extra AP skews the emperorship, leaderboards, or even simply alliance ranks which becomes P2W. Don't forget those extra skill point system quicker!

Extra items in anyway would be claimed P2W because inevitably someone would get positive RNG and get a good item right away and would have people foaming at the mouth over this being P2W.

As said previously, I disagree with these claims personally (well the AP one WOULD be with emperor and leaderboards) as anything that is still obtainable without having to pay is not in my eyes P2W in any manner and inevitably games change and progress so I also don't see much issue with expansions and the like.

All that said: storage increases especially since they have seen most people aren't even storage capped is a nice luxury that means people who sub don't have to be quite as worried about it, seems the best value with the least negative repercussions.

AndrewQ84 · April 2017

So... And let me get this straight here so we are on the same page... you... are AGAINST more storage that you don't have to pay for?

....... You're against free stuff?

...

I... I don't understand that...

Someone... please.... Is there really nothing better to complain about than free extra storage? Someone please explain this to me. I am not really comprehending.

[Deleted User] · April 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2017

Additional storage / inventory space, exp bonus & DLC access is really the only thing ZOS has to offer without making it "P2W" ? ? ?
Omg... there are so many other things...

I am not an expert here but I would argue that adding +10 bank upgrade for crowns (yes even if you already reached the 240 cap) in a reasonable price would give ZOS more profit than ESO+ itself....
But hey... I am just saying...

Tan9oSuccka · April 2017

Subbing already provides a pretty good value in my opinion.

I'll take the extra bank space too, thanks!

Uriel_Nocturne · April 2017

I rather like the double bank space for my subscription, ZOS.

I approve.

Elsonso · April 2017

Eocosa wrote: »

The big problem, as I'm sure has been brought up (admittedly I didn't read through every post yet), is essentially anything given to subs is almost immediately deemed Pay to win (P2W). While I disagree with this personally in everything currently offered the arguments have been made for essentially everything extra is P2W and I think storage is the lesser of the possible evils.

They already offer a ton of convenience and utility items in the Crown Store. If anyone wants to claim P2W on stuff like that, that train left the station already, and it ain't stopping.

Edit: They already have Crown Riding Lessons. Anyone who wants to claim P2W is already doing it. ESO Plus already increases inspiration. It would not be a leap to reduce research times.

Peekachu99 · April 2017

Graydon wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

Wait...what?

Such an informative and useful post.

I think I've learned:

1. You are subbing not subbing but subbing.

2. Extra storage sucks.

3. You think threatening ZOS will be taken seriously.

4. You are important.

Rate the OP 4 stars if I could!

Schrodinger's Post: to be subbed or to not be subbed at equal states of relativity. Truly quantum level thought coming from the OP.

Cencewolf · April 2017

Is it really so difficult to understand that the primary thing *irritaring the heck* out of people about storage is how wonky it is? Its not necessarilly the number if "slots" .. I can prioritize, and downsize if need be. Its rather the inability to organize, place sets in specific order so one can see at a glance what they have managed to accumulate... Not weed through a list of 220 (or god forbid 440) pieces to determine if you have a 5 piece alkosh set in manageable traits...

Storage needs to come to housing..
Build a chest.. Place it in your house.. Store 1 (or multiple) similar sets in that one box, where player can return to/observe/manage their gear instead of just tossing it i to a seemingly never ending hole thats impossible to navigate with any ease

Rosveen · April 2017

I feel that having this discussion here is a waste of time because the majority of active forum users are longtime subscribers and see this addition as a nice free bonus.

From the perspective of a non-sub, adding this kind of perk - not an actual bonus, but, just like the crafting bag, a near-mandatory paid solution to a problem ZOS deliberately created with a fundamental game system - is a tad more worrying.

Dreepa · April 2017

Storage in our houses is RP and MMORPG style.

Everything else is ***

[Edited for Profanity masking]

wiz12268b14_ESO · April 2017

The fact that they only have two (once this one gets implemented) things that make a sub even appealing is more a testament of how HORRIBLE the inventory system is in this game. Compounded by the fact that this new storage/inventory perk is what they came up with as a sub perk and most people are all for it.

They could EASILY sell new storage types, with the implementation of housing that would seem like a no brainer, but ZoS knows they will make more in the long run in sub fees (if they keep it exclusive) than they would outright selling banks/bank space.

OrphanHelgen · April 2017

Speed and items would be pay to win. Bank space doesn't affect new players who want to see if they like the game or not. Double bank space are spot on in my opinion.

masterbroodub17_ESO · April 2017

QQ moar

Joy_Division · April 2017

ZoS, please do something about storage. I don't care what, but housing has - ironically and very oddly - made the inventory managements system, already a nightmare, far worse.

seaef · April 2017

Graydon wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

Wait...what?

Such an informative and useful post.

I think I've learned:

1. You are subbing not subbing but subbing.

2. Extra storage sucks.

3. You think threatening ZOS will be taken seriously.

4. You are important.

Rate the OP 4 stars if I could!

He's not subbed. Probably another freeloader who wants the same things as a person who pays.

wiz12268b14_ESO · April 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Speed and items would be pay to win. Bank space doesn't affect new players who want to see if they like the game or not. Double bank space are spot on in my opinion.

Pick ANY other MMO with a sub optional approach...RIFT, LOTRO, Swotor, Wildstar, and probably a few more. If they offered "double bank space'' as an incentive for subbing would anyone actually care, let alone be a major selling point for subscribing?

Like I said the ONLY reason people care in this game is because the biggest monetized portion of this game is inventory.

Rosveen · April 2017

postlarval wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

Wait...what?

Such an informative and useful post.

I think I've learned:

1. You are subbing not subbing but subbing.

2. Extra storage sucks.

3. You think threatening ZOS will be taken seriously.

4. You are important.

Rate the OP 4 stars if I could!

He's not subbed. Probably another freeloader who wants the same things as a person who pays.

Ever heard of the crown store? Newsflash: non-subs use it too. And we all paid for the base game.

Dragonking06 · April 2017

Someone sounds a little... Salty...

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Kodrac · April 2017

You all act like they're taking storage away from you. You're not losing anything. Nothing is changing for you and yet you still manage to complain. Wow.

ADarklore · April 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

I'm pumped for the storage. If you ask me, it's one of the best things they could give subscribers.

People who don't have upgraded space don't play enough to care. People who have upgraded space are probably still struggling to make room for everything. Doubling that gives current subscribers more reason to stay, and those who aren't, reason to join.

*sign…who don't want free stuff? you are missing the point here.

A company recently decided they will not give storage to players because “they don't need it". Well we could Say that ZOS didn't know how is the real situation, we could. But now they are throwing storage to subber because they actually know people want it? They just lied in front of us all.

As a subber （currently）of course I want storage, but I don't feel comfotable giving money on a monthly basis to a company which would do this to make more money from customers, to me that is a big uncertainty to the quality of future contents, and that's why I will stick with one time purchase now

I agree with you OP.

This is a sign of the game becoming P2W. Craft bag is insanely good already and for any end game player with multiple characters; the bank space isn't enough.
Mules are needed.

[SNIp]

I don't and won't sub out of principle, inventory is a massive headache.
I've got my own guild bank which helps but all these BoP items are a pain to manage.

[Edited for Bashing]

Yes... I know... having more bank space is going to help players WIN. *sigh*

In all honesty, the only people it really helps are hoarders or players with tons of alts who carry multiple gear sets for leveling. I do this, but I keep all my leveling sets on characters so I don't accidentally deconstruct them... this will not change with more bank space... I'll continue to keep those sets on characters for the very same reason. So the extra bank space will not really help me at all, however, I am all for ZOS adding more reasons for people to sub. Right now people complain there are few reasons to sub, so perhaps this will incentivize ESO+ even more. NO, non-sub players should not receive 'the same things as ESO+' because it devalues ESO+. ZOS is a 'for profit' company who needs money to maintain their system and subscriptions help them plan their long-term budget... budgeting based on 'possible sales' is difficult to do. If non-sub players see this as a slight, then they clearly aren't investing as much into the game as subscribers are... and the thing is, ZOS knows these details. They can query their database and see which players are buying items, which ones are not, and clearly they can tell overall whether subscribers are earning them more profits or non-subscribers. If non-subs were offering more, they would be adding more benefits for them, so clearly based on what we've seen, they are not. Clearly ZOS wants more subscribers, so they are going to continue to incentivize ESO+ to try and get more current non-subs to subscribe.

Dagoth_Rac · April 2017

Adding storage to housing as an ESO+ perk (or even an in-game purchase) is an iffy proposition, from a business point of view. Not everyone has a house. Heck, I have like 10 bazillion gold, have been here since PC beta, subscribed every month with no breaks since launch, etc., and still have not bought a house. Even with storage, I am not sure how much it appeals to me. Seems like a big time sink that I will enjoy looking at for a week and then stop caring. Also, I am kind of bummed that my main crafter is an Imperial and he cannot craft Imperial furniture for his house. Imperial furnishing plans do not exist for some dumb reason.

On other hand, everyone has a bank. So you are making a storage addition that has appeal to a much larger number of people than housing storage. In fact, many of the requested alternative ESO+ perks are kind of niche. They are what that particular player wants, but are unlikely to have the kind of widespread appeal to the majority of players. Making ESO+ appealing to as many players as possible is almost certainly a driving force behind the perks they add.

davey1107 · April 2017

Lord...this soap box again.

If you don't like the perks of ESO plus, don't subscribe.

If you like plus but think the bank or bag will make you "addicted," DON'T USE THE SPACE. Then you can unsubscribe at any time with no drawbacks.

If you like the perks but you don't want to pay, that's life - people who subscribe are funding new content and deserve an incentive for doing so. On this particular product, if you don't subscribe you get to play for free and enjoy most of the content while others support the game for you. You can therefore be grateful the option exists, because most products in life get you booted when you stop paying. It's not like movie theaters charge $15 for a movie and popcorn, but if you don't want popcorn you can sit in the theater for free.

And no griping about how everyone in the game "needs" more space. An account has the potential for 1840 slots without ever spending a crown. Giving someone 2060 isn't going to solve their problems...if zos doubled the bank you'd fill it and be back here griping in two months. MMOs use limited space to keep the economies viable. You don't need more space, you need to manage your inventory better.

Three options. All solve this supposedly impossible problem. Pick one. Then shut up.

idk · April 2017

EvilCroc wrote: »

Oh, comon. The main reason to sub is the crafting bag. Double bank space will be just a nice addition, not more.

Yes. I was about to drop the sub when the crafting bag was announced. The added storage is certainly icc My on the cake though many will still fill it up as it is their nature.

Really great ideas for Zos to add as a sub perk. Something everyone can have if they choose to.

Aimora · April 2017

I love the double storage idea, but would love loyalty rewards back please too.

Cêltic421 · April 2017

Do you have to purchase the extra Bank space with gold or its automatically doubled? I have 240 Bank space so with plus it will be 480? Or as someone mentioned earlier is it just double standard Bank size so only additional 120 bank slots so 360 total?

alexkdd99 · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

I'm pumped for the storage. If you ask me, it's one of the best things they could give subscribers.

People who don't have upgraded space don't play enough to care. People who have upgraded space are probably still struggling to make room for everything. Doubling that gives current subscribers more reason to stay, and those who aren't, reason to join.

*sign…who don't want free stuff? you are missing the point here.

A company recently decided they will not give storage to players because “they don't need it". Well we could Say that ZOS didn't know how is the real situation, we could. But now they are throwing storage to subber because they actually know people want it? They just lied in front of us all.

As a subber （currently）of course I want storage, but I don't feel comfotable giving money on a monthly basis to a company which would do this to make more money from customers, to me that is a big uncertainty to the quality of future contents, and that's why I will stick with one time purchase now

You have got to be kidding me. You don't feel comfortable giving money to a company that is trying to give incentives for people to purchase a subscription. News flash, that is what every subscription is about. Giving the customer what they want for a set monthly price.

Subs lost value when they switched to the "chapter" model. ZOS stated they were looking for ways to give subs some more value, and what do the players want? Storage!

Go ahead and stick with 1 time purchases and miss out on the extra bank space AND craft bag. I will keep my sub and continue to enjoy the benefits.

I started off a little angry with them and there switch to chapters, but now that I see we will be getting more bank space I am actually glad they made this change.

Also point me to where they lied about storage. I am sure they have hard facts about the percentage of toons with max out inventory and bank.

Also FYI, blackmailing don't work in these situations. Especially since most of the people I know that sub are extremely happy about this. I am sure zos will see a decent jump in subs.

This is a prefect incentive for subbing. Good luck managing your storage.